The 3pm U.K. Blackout

TheLiverBird said:
27 million??

its 16 million the difference from what I saw

Uk - 68m
Germany 84m

that’s a 16m difference hardly scandalously bigger, that’s a similar sized nation

anyway I think we are getting into pedantics here
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The U.K. isn’t England. Not many are going to travel from Northern Ireland to watch lower leagues in England. You’re dodging facts. Germany has a population 48% bigger than England. For a fair comparison take away 48% from their attendance and then compare them.
 
yipthatman said:
You make it sound so easy to go to an actual game. I live in London, I cant afford it anyway (PT work dried up due to covid) and if I could and did come up it would be to see the enormous family first, not to go to the game. I have always pretty much been an armchair fan and I am comfortable with that. Apart from taking my nephew to Old Trafford for a game ages ago. Ironically he will be at the Newcastle game so Im happy for him. I also genuinely dont know where to view the match online as I only use Bt sports and Nowtv. Sorry if I sound a bit peeved off but I am just a bit frustrated at this as I would really love to see this match and I had gotten used to last season showing all the games on TV.
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If going to the game is an insurmountable obstacle then stream it.
 
acnumber9 said:
If going to the game is an insurmountable obstacle then stream it.
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Thanks Ill look in to it. I have no idea where to look and I am aware that we cant discuss it on here. Enjoy the game everyone. Should be special.
 
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The Boy said:
I wonder why the football league and the lower league clubs are all so worried about it then, but it'll be fine because Bertie from Red Cafe says so. Also there is nothing romantic about a football club being at the centre of a community, I'm a Brighton supporter, but my wifes family are all from Plymouth and when we're down there we'll sometimes go to Home Park to watch Argyle play, they're shit but it's a good crowd and good day out and we meet loads of their friends that they just see it at the footy, if there was a big game on there's no doubt 5, 10, 15 percent may not go especially in winter. That may not seem like much but it's a big hit for small clubs.

You clearly won't understand a club being a place to meet friends, hold a wedding reception or fete for charity on a summer Sunday because you follow a big club that doesn't do any of those things, nothing wrong with that, it's just different.



It's nothing to do with a bygone era, you may view football through the prism of multi million pound transfers, billions of fans across the world, korean tractor sponsors and super leagues, again that's fine, but for the vast majority of clubs football is not like that at all, it is still local affair, try talking to people in Bury and see how losing their club has affected their community, or any another struggling club like a Doncaster or a Macclesfield and see if they think having a club at the heart of a community is a bygone era.



When your gate receipts is your primary source of income you are very happy to take people on a day out, but again you show absolutely no understanding. Not every fan is the same, some are vociferous in their support and wont miss a game others are a bit more meh, and will go if a few mates are going and it's not raining, if you lost those people at United it wouldn't matter too much, but again not all clubs are as big as United and if you take people away in the lower leagues and non league it's a massive issue.

I can not believe I am having to write this after 18 months with no fans at all, as I said in an earlier post it would be madness to lift the 3pm blackout now given the state so many lower league teams are in financially.

Thankfully it doesn't matter too much because there is no appetite at all to remove the blackout, the only people calling for it are people like yourself who can't see beyond what matters to you or begin to comprehend the impact it could have on those romantic small clubs from a bygone era.
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Hugely patronising post. And takes a huge amount of liberties with my so called lack of awareness of lower league clubs.

Members of my family support teams like United, others smaller teams like Wigan. When I was younger, I attended many Wigan games during the 80's when they were struggling for money, with dodgy owners, and complaining about wealthier clubs stealing their players, not helping them, etc.

They then got taken over by Dave Whelan and had 20+ years of hugely comparative success for them - including spending a lot of money, taking players cheaply off lower league / struggling clubs, etc.

I still know many Wigan fans - I'm related to some - and, while having some sympathy for Bury's fans (but not the club who brought it upon themselves by overspending), most were absolutely loving the whole Bolton struggling and were eager for them to be punished, drop down the leagues, even fold up. When Wigan suddenly found themselves in administration, deducted points, etc, obviously their fans views was back to 'family of football' and the unfairness of finances in the game, etc. They've been taken over again and quickly back to spending big money for a lower league club - over £500,000 for one player on deadline day - and the imbalance of finances is conveniently forgotten again for now.

I'm fully aware of how lower league teams exist, thanks. You may disagree with my view, but those views aren't due to lack of football knowledge.
 
Everyone streams them anyway, so it doesn’t really matter.

Isn’t this rule because of people not going to lower league games which seem like utter shite.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
Hugely patronising post. And takes a huge amount of liberties with my so called lack of awareness of lower league clubs.
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And it was meant to be. I'm perfectly happy to have a sensible and mature discussion about it, but the minute you start labelling the importance of lower league teams to their communities as "romantic" and from a "bygone era" then you deserve to be set right.
 
dal said:
Everyone streams them anyway, so it doesn’t really matter.

Isn’t this rule because of people not going to lower league games which seem like utter shite.
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Everyone doesn't stream them, you're wrong on that.

A handful of elite clubs with super-rich players is not representative of football in England. If you've never been to a lower-league or non-league game, I suggest you try it. You can buy a ticket on the gate, choose where to stand and there's always the chance to have a word with the players in the bar afterwards.

It's a completely different experience and great fun.
 
Sounds like it's needed to keep lower leagues alive but I also think they should be a bit more selective in which matches they put in that timeslot.
 
The Boy said:
And it was meant to be. I'm perfectly happy to have a sensible and mature discussion about it, but the minute you start labelling the importance of lower league teams to their communities as "romantic" and from a "bygone era" then you deserve to be set right.
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If you took my whole post in context, instead of spacing the connected points apart as you did and responding to them separately and out of context, you'd see the "bygone era" reference was an 'if...' scenario based on the rights / wrongs of points being made. I wasn't labeling the relevance of lower league football as a "bygone era" at all.
 
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I don't understand how the argument is fans won't attend lower league games, when the lower league games are broadcast on ifollow at 3pm anyways.
 
Trequarista10 said:
You're claiming the majority of people who would watch a game on TV would currently be streaming it illegally, that's nonsensical. How many millions of subscribers does Sky Sports have already? Why are they subscribed at all if they could just illegally stream it already? There are plenty of match going fans who also have Sky Sports, and would have a decision to make each weekend whether to "have a day out" or stay home and watch the PL at the same time.
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It might be nonsensical if that's what I'd actually said. Please reply to my actual post mate it makes discussions flow much better.

I said the people who don't go to watch lower league teams and stream games would be the ones watching 3pm kick offs on Sky. The majority of people who can't be arsed with that and enjoy going to watch live football on a Saturday afternoon won't suddenly stop enjoying that experience just because there's a game on TV.

I'm sure there would be some drop off in lower league attendances but that's going to happen as the younger tech savvy generation who know how to stream games get older. The drastic drop in attendances that some seem to think would occur is being overestimated in my opinion.

Trequarista10 said:
I get wanting an end to the 3pm blackout, but denying that allowing PL games to be shown on TV at 3pm would impact attendances on lower league sides is absurd.
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I literally said in the post you are replying to I don't care if the black out ends or stays in place. Well done.
 
Sorry if this has been asked, but wouldn't an easy solution to this be scrapping the PL 3pm kickoffs on Saturday? Having a game on Friday and Mondays should give enough leniency to get the games organised over the weekend without the 3pm slot?
 
duffer said:
If the choice is watch Chelsea on the telly or go and watch Sutton United, I'll sit on my bum and watch Chelsea. If Chelsea are not one the telly, I'll go to Sutton United.
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Fair enough some will no doubt make that choice. Out of interest how often do you watch Sutton though?

Personally I still think most people who enjoy going to watch live football on a Saturday afternoon would continue to do so. There's more to the matchday experience that people enjoy than simply watching a football match.
 
To The people who don't understand the rule. What do you think the reasons are for English football having far higher lower league level attendance numbers than other football crazy countries?
 
stevoc said:
Personally I still think most people who enjoy going to watch live football on a Saturday afternoon would continue to do so. There's more to the matchday experience that people enjoy than simply watching a football match.
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This is the issue though, it's the short term thinking. Yes, the impact may not be catastrophic in the immediate term but in the long-term, 10, 20, 30 years, the next generations would get more and more used to just watching United or Liverpool on TV instead of just going down their local club with their parents.
 
I recall Sky putting the Barcelona v Real Madrid match 15 minutes later than kick off due to the blackout
 
duffer said:
Because if Man United/Liverpool were on telly every saturday at 3pm, less people would go to watch the likes of Shewsbury Town live at 3pm on a saturday.
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I'm not at all convinced they would though? People who go to those games will still go those games because that's their team. People still turn up at league 1 games if it clashes, surely? When the Championship is on a Tuesday or whatever and Champions League is on, people still attend?

Large part of match day is meeting up with people you know, the pre and post game at the pub or wherever. I know people who will travel hours on an away day when United are on, they don't care because they support Preston or Millwall etc. People in Shrewsbury likely care more about Shrewsbury than Manchester United. I don't see how United being on the telly suddenly empties those grounds.

Worst case, trial it for 3 months or something and if attendances genuinely drop, don't continue with it. Games are so easy to stream now or access through services like IPTV etc that if someone wanted to watch United over Shrewsbury, they would be doing so already.
 
Fox outside the box said:
Worst case, trial it for 3 months or something and if attendances genuinely drop, don't continue with it. Games are so easy to stream now or access through services like IPTV etc that if someone wanted to watch United over Shrewsbury, they would be doing so already.
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Even more short term thinking. Brilliant.
 
Its amazing the blackout still needs to be explained.

If you want to watch the Newcastle game, find a stream. It's really not hard.

If you're pissed off that you can't watch the game from the comfort of your sofa, direct your ire at the Premier league for not looking at moving the game to a 12.30pm or 5.30pm slot. And If you just don't give a shit about anything other than the bigger sides, just stick with La liga.
 
cyberman said:
Isn’t that better than short term guessing with stories about your mates?
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Actual people who regularly go and watch lower league football? Yeah, why the feck would we listen to them?
 
So I should expect to see a third less of the games I want to see of my club so the 100 Shrewsbury fans that exist are more likely to get off their arse and go to a game?

Makes sense.
 
Don`t know if this helps the discussion in any way but ARD (equivalent to your BBC) is showing a third league game live at the moment Magdeburg vs Kaiserslautern and the stadium seems packed.Tune in for the second half if you are bored, Should be easy to find a legal stream for ARD.
 
RUCK4444 said:
So I should expect to see a third less of the games I want to see of my club so the 100 Shrewsbury fans that exist are more likely to get off their arse and go to a game?

Makes sense.
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You could get of your arse and to a game yourself.

And you're being pretty dishonest, you don't miss games, you admittedly stream them anyway.
 
The suggestion people already find ways to watch streams so it doesn't affect things is stupid. The difference in people watching an illegal stream and a genuine game broadcast on Sky or BBC would be astronomical, it's an absurd comparison.
 
Tacitus56AD said:
Don`t know if this helps the discussion in any way but ARD (equivalent to your BBC) is showing a third league game live at the moment Magdeburg vs Kaiserslautern and the stadium seems packed.Tune in for the second half if your bored, Should be easy to find a legal stream for ARD.
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It's on youtube (at least in the UK, might be blocked in some places for all I know).

 
Chipper said:
It's on youtube (at least in the UK, might be blocked in some places for all I know).
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I would say about 15-20k in the stands?(Don`t know if they have corona-rules that would hinder them from letting in more)

Tried looking it up. Didn`t find the numbers. But to leave you with one last nugget: Magdeburgs coach is named Christian Titz
 
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JB7 said:
This is the issue though, it's the short term thinking. Yes, the impact may not be catastrophic in the immediate term but in the long-term, 10, 20, 30 years, the next generations would get more and more used to just watching United or Liverpool on TV instead of just going down their local club with their parents.
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Isn't that a huge part of the problem, though? Times change, and different generations live in different ways. And this generation, and the next, are growing up in a hugely technological age and are perfectly entitled to choose to watch top flight games on the TV now that's a very normal way of life, rather than the traditional 'going down the local club with their parents' like previous generations.

Society has changed hugely in the last 40 years, and we're now in a technology age that will only continue to increase over the next 10, 20, 30 years. Trying to force the next generations to watch football in the same way as the previous generations, when most things now are enjoyed in a completely different way, mostly via technology, seems to be very restrictive.

Trust me, I'm not a huge fan of change myself. I'm a big cricket fan and hate what they've had to do with The Hundred in order to make it appeal to the current generation. And there's many other examples I could list. But all of those are happening, and anyone opposing them dismissed as 'traditionalists'.

Football, being very much about tradition and against change in this country, is one of the few things that is, so far, managing to fight against that to an extent and, although a part of me is pleased about that, another part very much dislikes the nasty way some go about the argument - dismissing anyone who doesn't attend games in person as armchair fans as if they're not 'proper' fans and their views don't matter in the debate, etc.
 
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Lay said:
I recall Sky putting the Barcelona v Real Madrid match 15 minutes later than kick off due to the blackout
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Surely a black out is a time window, not just the kick off time.

In England it's 3pm to 5.30 or so isn't it?
 
duffer said:
You could get of your arse and to a game yourself.

And you're being pretty dishonest, you don't miss games, you admittedly stream them anyway.
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I do actually go to Old Trafford at least 7-8 times a season, but due to distance it’s impractical especially with kids.

So what your saying is, I’m obliged to see less of the team I’ve supported my entire life becuase it’s impossible for me to go to every game and watching it at home means I’m somehow stopping lower league fans watch their local team in a stadium down the road from them. Pretty pathetic and unfair to be honest.

And I actually don’t stream becuase I'm useless at sorting it properly and previously end up using crap streams that lag constantly which infuriates me more than when we lose a game.

I pay for every single sports channel on Sky including MUTV, yet I’m still robbed of a large portion of my teams games when the cost of that package is probably three times as much as somebody on the continent who gets to watch every game they want and more.
 
Penna said:
Everyone doesn't stream them, you're wrong on that.
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Correct.

This is a generational thing, very much.

I don't know a single 50+ person who'd even consider streaming a match (in any shape or form, never mind searching for illegal streams). They pay for what they watch - and if they can't watch a match on TV (via some form of subscription or other), they won't be looking for alternatives.

Even in the 40+ demographic, I'd say most don't stream regularly (they're much more likely to have some kind of subscription).

In fact, among my own group of friends and acquaintances who follow football regularly, I'd say the majority of them wouldn't even know how to do it (they just haven't gotten into the habit - and are generally in a financial position where having a legit subscription isn't a problem).
 
TrustInOle said:
Sorry if this has been asked, but wouldn't an easy solution to this be scrapping the PL 3pm kickoffs on Saturday? Having a game on Friday and Mondays should give enough leniency to get the games organised over the weekend without the 3pm slot?
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It’s not what match going fans want.
 
My twitter guy I got my streams from went down last week after being so reliable.

I'll begin the hunt for another.
 
RUCK4444 said:
What is it that match going fans want?

Personally when I’m at a match I don’t want 90% of the rest of the weekends football to be happening at the same time.
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To be able to set off travelling, and return home from the stadium at a reasonable time of day? 3pm kick offs are good for that in general, even for away fans.
 
acnumber9 said:
You can see your team play. By going to the match.

If you can’t see the benefit in football supporting all but a small group of teams then there is no rational explanation that will help you.
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It isn't about not supporting grass roots football. That could be done in many other ways. Its wrong to paint it that way.

It is about how I choose to spend my time. Unfortunately since my family grew in number I haven't got the money or time to go to matches like I used to (even if matches were easy to get tickets for which the aren't).

One of my remaining pleasures is however being able to watch united play on television at least. By not televising the match the only thing that is happening is that you are depriving people of a pleasure.

The idea that as a fan of manchester United if I can't watch the match I want to on tv then I'll spend money on going to watch a league two club with whom I have no relationship is farcical. Maybe some of their own fans will stay in to watch a match but I doubt many as I assume that any fans that go regularly to watch league 2 clubs are pretty die hard.

So who will go? Maybe some football fanatics who love the sport so much that they will go to any live football they can if there is no football on television. But I doubt that amounts to many people.

As someone not desparate for football, I'd rather spend that time with my family and we are not doing a day trip to a run down stadium. We will go to a park or something.

Also, and importantly, my allegiance is to United. I can't switch that and am just not that fussed about watching other football teams.
 
JB7 said:
This is the issue though, it's the short term thinking. Yes, the impact may not be catastrophic in the immediate term but in the long-term, 10, 20, 30 years, the next generations would get more and more used to just watching United or Liverpool on TV instead of just going down their local club with their parents.
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Personally mate I actually think the idea that things like 3pm black-outs which were conceived in the 1960's can protect lower league attendances in the 21st century is the short term thinking.

Myself (I'm 39) and most of my mates have or do stream 3pm games regularly but to my knowledge none of our Dads/Uncles do or know how to. And I don't see that trajectory changing as every generation of kids is more tech savvy than the last. They will just stream their teams games if they aren't on TV, it won't be much more hassle than switching to a channel on TV. It practically is at that stage now with the streams I watch.

Long term thinking would be having a separate payment plan for televised Sat 3pm PL kick-offs and redistributing some of that money to lower league clubs whose attendances are adversely affected by those games being televised.
 
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