The 3pm U.K. Blackout

[FootballHQ]

I’m absolutely thrilled it’s back. You lot who wouldn’t dream of going to watch a football match on a Saturday will just stream it anyway so why complain?

There’s nothing like checking 5-6 scores come in at 16:45 on a Saturday. Love it.

Yeah same for me I think.

Before pandemic would've agreed with most, scrap it and just show every single game live in some form but was getting massive fatigue watching of football by time of the 7pm game on Sundays last season so sometimes less is more and pretty much majority of Man. United games are live on TV during the season so not really the forum to complain about it compared to other teams.

Edit: I guess a better way is to continue with 5-6 games at Saturday 3pm and find ways to show them legally live rather than stagger the ten fixtures over Friday-Monday as was the case last 18 months and that strategy has its limitations for me.

 

[Sandikan]

If watching Man United at 3pm is the reason you wont go see your local team then are you really a fan? With so many entertainment choices these days this rule seems so silly.

The point is, it's not the hard core fans that make up say 50% of lower league's regular attendances who will stop, it's those floating fans who at the moment can't legally watch the sat 3pms.

If they suddenly can, they'll not want to watch say Oldham play for £15 in the flesh when they can click a button on a tv and watch it as part of their already held tv deal.

 

[FootballHQ]

Because if Man United/Liverpool were on telly every saturday at 3pm, less people would go to watch the likes of Shewsbury Town live at 3pm on a saturday.

I don't think you need to go that high tbh. Many fans who go to watch likes of Shrewsbury and Walsall couldn't care less that Chelsea have just signed Lukaku for 90m and find top flight football a turn off nowadays so will go regardless.

It's more to protect the likes of Dulwich Hamlett and clubs in non league pyramid. Mind you all of them have been playing BCD and seemed to survived so perhaps it wouldn't quite be the death knell the footballl authorities predict it would be.

 

[Red00012]

Come to Ireland guys and watch it here I’ll have beers in the fridge

 

[HerbT]

IMO football should be a meritocracy whereby the clubs at all levels get the support that they can naturally attract.
I understand that keeping 3pm PL games off the TV may help to artificially inflate attendances at some lower league clubs but if they had say 10am kick-offs, so that supporters wanting to also watch a PL game could do so as well, then I think that would have a more profound beneficial impact.

Anyhow, not a problem to me or to anyone else with access to a VPN.

 

[RedRover]

I'm with @duffer on this one.
Football in the UK is not all about the top clubs earning more and more money and catering for armchair fans on a Saturday afternoon. Grass root clubs including the EFL rely far more heavily on getting bums on seats on a Saturday afternoon. Once you start diluting their audience to pander for fans of the elite clubs then it all starts to fall apart imho.

Totally agree with this.

If 3pm PL games are widely available on TV, that's the death knell for the lower leagues and probably anything below the PL, in time. People saying "if you're watching Man Utd v Newcastle instead, are you really a fan" are missing the point. People support their local sides for a lot of reasons, but often, because going to a 3pm Saturday kick-off (and all that entails) is something they do with their dad/friends when they're young and it becomes a ritual. If they never do that, because games are available on TV that's a generation of fans lost for all but the top sides.

This won't just affect sides outside of the PL either. As a kid, would you go and watch Norwich if you could watch City/United/Liverpool every week? All this does is increase the gap between the elite and the rest, because it'll ultimately result in each club selling it's own TV rights.

Each to their own, but if you're against the likes of the ESL, then you should be against scrapping the black out as they're both sides of the same coin.

 

[Sandikan]

IMO football should be a meritocracy whereby the clubs at all levels get the support that they can naturally attract.
I understand that keeping 3pm PL games off the TV may help to artificially inflate attendances at some lower league clubs but if they had say 10am kick-offs, so that supporters wanting to also watch a PL game could do so as well, then I think that would have a more profound beneficial impact.

Anyhow, not a problem to me or to anyone else with access to a VPN.

When did you start supporting Man City out of interest?

 

[Sandikan]

Totally agree with this.

If 3pm PL games are widely available on TV, that's the death knell for the lower leagues and probably anything below the PL, in time. People saying "if you're watching Man Utd v Newcastle instead, are you really a fan" are missing the point. People support their local sides for a lot of reasons, but often, because going to a 3pm Saturday kick-off (and all that entails) is something they do with their dad/friends when they're young and it becomes a ritual. If they never do that, because games are available on TV that's a generation of fans lost for all but the top sides.

This won't just affect sides outside of the PL either. As a kid, would you go and watch Norwich if you could watch City/United/Liverpool every week? All this does is increase the gap between the elite and the rest, because it'll ultimately result in each club selling it's own TV rights.

Each to their own, but if you're against the likes of the ESL, then you should be against scrapping the black out as they're both sides of the same coin.

It's funny. United get the highest percentage of games on tv of all the teams.

Yet just because we have to suck up not having the Newcastle game on tv everyone is suddenly losing their corn.

 

[JB7]

I don't think you need to go that high tbh. Many fans who go to watch likes of Shrewsbury and Walsall couldn't care less that Chelsea have just signed Lukaku for 90m and find top flight football a turn off nowadays so will go regardless.

It's more to protect the likes of Dulwich Hamlett and clubs in non league pyramid. Mind you all of them have been playing BCD and seemed to survived so perhaps it wouldn't quite be the death knell the footballl authorities predict it would be.

It was only the National League & National North/South that continued because they were ridiculously classed as "elite" sport. And the clubs only played because of the grants made available by the authorities, as soon as it became apparent that those grants were going to end, the North/South clubs voted to end the season having only played 15 or so games & the season was voided.

The National League also voted on it at the same time and 7 clubs voted to cease the season but were overruled, so forced to continue despite losing money hand over fist. Dover refused to continue and were handed a 12 point deduction for this season and fined £40k which was obscene.

 

[Adam McNeill]

Its beyond belief that in 2021 you can't watch a 3PM game legally in the UK, its just another example of a sport that drastically needs modernising.

It's pretty well documented and accepted that the decline of football is already happening.

I can see it myself, my friends young kids (8-14) have more appetite for e-sports/steaming/gaming than watch football games, the 3PM blackout isn't helping.

Lets abolish the blackout, get some GOOD steaming services (and trickle the money down to the lower league teams).

I have always been a casual united fan but personally lost interest/grew out of football about 15 years ago, mostly because of how hard/expensive they make it to watch games on demand.

I would absolutely come back with renewed interest if a legal/good/reasonably priced (circa £20 p/m) streaming service was implemented in the UK where I can watch EVERY united game.

 

[JB7]

It's funny. United get the highest percentage of games on tv of all the teams.

Yet just because we have to suck up not having the Newcastle game on tv everyone is suddenly losing their corn.

The same people will be back to crying next week that Sky have ruined football.

 

[DoubleDinhos]

IMO football should be a meritocracy whereby the clubs at all levels get the support that they can naturally attract.
I understand that keeping 3pm PL games off the TV may help to artificially inflate attendances at some lower league clubs but if they had say 10am kick-offs, so that supporters wanting to also watch a PL game could do so as well, then I think that would have a more profound beneficial impact.

Anyhow, not a problem to me or to anyone else with access to a VPN.

It's already hard enough on away fans travelling the country to make 3pm kick-offs. Imagine being an Exeter fan playing Barrow away (like a few weeks ago) and trying to get there for 10am!

It's funny how when it was the Super League, it made immediate intuitive sense to people that football should be organised around principles that aren't simply based on capitalist accumulation and the concentration of resources amongst a select twenty or so teams. But now it's lower league it's silly that there should be any sort of protection involved to stop the Premier League just cannibalising the rest of the pyramid because it's the most profitable. Football is about the fans, ey!

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

The idea behind the blackout makes total sense, but the reason it is antiquated is because the Internet completely undermines it. You can easily watch any 3pm game in the UK on any device with an Internet connection and a screen. Or you can find a pub that will do the dirty work for you.

Do the FA really think United fans are going to go "oh bugger, the game's not on telly. I'll just wait and watch the 8 minutes of highlights on Match of the Day at 11pm"? They're incredibly naive if so. Every United fan in the country will be watching the Newcastle game, just as fans of other clubs do every week.

It's time they considered monetising and legitimising it, or perhaps rethinking the structuring of how the PL is fixture compared to the rest of the football league.

 

[JB7]

Every United fan in the country will be watching the Newcastle game, just as fans of other clubs do every week.

Interesting thought that I can immediately disprove as I know at least two United fans going to watch Telford at Alfreton next week.

 

[stevoc]

I’m absolutely thrilled it’s back. You lot who wouldn’t dream of going to watch a football match on a Saturday will just stream it anyway so why complain?

There’s nothing like checking 5-6 scores come in at 16:45 on a Saturday. Love it.

And you couldn't do that if games were televised at 3pm?

 

[stevoc]

Because if Man United/Liverpool were on telly every saturday at 3pm, less people would go to watch the likes of Shewsbury Town live at 3pm on a saturday.

I doubt that's been the case for about 10 years.

The people who would watch 3pm football are the ones that are already streaming it illegally. (and who doesn't know how to do that these days?)

The people who fancy a day out to watch Shrewsbury will do that anyway.

 

[Trequarista10]

I am 100% for the 3pm blackout, it is imperative for lower divisions sides.

However every PL should be viewable. They should just have a different time slot for the PL games.

 

[adexkola]

With @duffer and co here.

 

[Sandikan]

It's already hard enough on away fans travelling the country to make 3pm kick-offs. Imagine being an Exeter fan playing Barrow away (like a few weeks ago) and trying to get there for 10am!

It's funny how when it was the Super League, it made immediate intuitive sense to people that football should be organised around principles that aren't simply based on capitalist accumulation and the concentration of resources amongst a select twenty or so teams. But now it's lower league it's silly that there should be any sort of protection involved to stop the Premier League just cannibalising the rest of the pyramid because it's the most profitable. Football is about the fans, ey!

I said it earlier and a couple of people got upset, but it's mostly internet armchair fans who want the 3pm sats on. Typically they don't care about lower division teams, and certainly don't go to many, or even any games.

 

[Ixion]

Growing up when I couldn't go to United I would go and watch Rochdale with my radio listening to United with earphones. If United was always broadcast at 3 I likely wouldn't have.

It would be nice if the Newcastle game was on TV but it is what it is. Football in the UK (pandemic effects aside) seems in a fairly healthy place and I wouldn't want to risk the lower tiers.

 

[duffer]

I doubt that's been the case for about 10 years.

It's absolutely still the case. I have family member who regularly do it. I sometimes do it.

 

[Sandikan]

I am 100% for the 3pm blackout, it is imperative for lower divisions sides.

However every PL should be viewable. They should just have a different time slot for the PL games.

That seems the best compromise there.
Once you're in the premier league, "tradition" of 3pm Saturday games has taken a bit hit anyway.

The only thing against it, is that it is quite nice to have a string of 3pm Saturday games on at the same time.
And 12.30 or 5.30 are crap kick offs for a lot of fans who go to games.
So would you then make Sunday the regular match day? Or does that interfere with "Super Sunday" stuff?

 

[The Boy]

Is there any data that proves attendances of the lower league clubs would go down? Personally I think it’s bollocks. If someone wants to watch live football they will regardless of what games on tv. Streaming is so easy to access now.

Only anecdotal I think, in the Athletic article the only studies it mentions are the effects on Bundesliga attendance and Serie A attendance figures, it doesn't look like anyone has studied the lower leagues. But looking at average attendances pre covid, at 2nd level leagues the Championship gets a bit more than 2. Bundesliga or Serie B and as you go lower the gap widens so attendances in England's 4th tier are higher than Germany's or Italy's, but it is still imposinble to say how effect the black out has.

But after 18 months of no crowds whatsoever, I think it would be mad to start mucking about with the black out now when we genuinely do not know the effect it would have on lower leagues. So many small clubs in England have scraped through the last year or so and need all the support they can get.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I'm with @duffer on this one.
Football in the UK is not all about the top clubs earning more and more money and catering for armchair fans on a Saturday afternoon. Grass root clubs including the EFL rely far more heavily on getting bums on seats on a Saturday afternoon. Once you start diluting their audience to pander for fans of the elite clubs then it all starts to fall apart imho.

The use of the term 'pander' is interesting, as you could just as easily use it to describe the current rules 'pandering' to lower league clubs to artificially boost their attendances.

If the rules are mostly in place to deny fans the chance to watch games on TV in the hope it forces them into going to lower league games instead then that's certainly a lot more 'pandering' than giving people an option and letting them decide which they'd prefer.

 

[Trequarista10]

I doubt that's been the case for about 10 years.

The people who would watch 3pm football are the ones that are already streaming it illegally. (and who doesn't know how to do that these days?)

The people who fancy a day out to watch Shrewsbury will do that anyway.

Come on, it's not that simple.

Loads of people don't use illegal streams. Kids, people who aren't tech savvy, or people who get fed up with dodgy streams not working when you need them.

If you're a kid you don't have a choice. I grew up watching lower league football live most Saturdays, if I could watched United from home instead I would certainly have attended less live matches.

 

[cyberman]

Totally agree with this.

If 3pm PL games are widely available on TV, that's the death knell for the lower leagues and probably anything below the PL, in time. People saying "if you're watching Man Utd v Newcastle instead, are you really a fan" are missing the point. People support their local sides for a lot of reasons, but often, because going to a 3pm Saturday kick-off (and all that entails) is something they do with their dad/friends when they're young and it becomes a ritual. If they never do that, because games are available on TV that's a generation of fans lost for all but the top sides.

This won't just affect sides outside of the PL either. As a kid, would you go and watch Norwich if you could watch City/United/Liverpool every week? All this does is increase the gap between the elite and the rest, because it'll ultimately result in each club selling it's own TV rights.

Each to their own, but if you're against the likes of the ESL, then you should be against scrapping the black out as they're both sides of the same coin.

Fans already watch Liverpool / City / Utd every week?

 

[stevoc]

Is there any data that proves attendances of the lower league clubs would go down? Personally I think it’s bollocks. If someone wants to watch live football they will regardless of what games on tv. Streaming is so easy to access now.

Yeah I think it's been bollocks for a while now. Maybe in the past but anyone who wants to watch 3pm kick-offs is already doing it. And the vast majority of people who want to go and watch a smaller live game aren't going to suddenly start sitting in because there's football on the TV at 3pm.

 

[The Boy]

This is just so bizarre right though? Like in what other circumstances could you do this when you are essentially selling a product. Sorry you can't buy black or white shoes at the moment because it will impact the sellers of bright coloured shoes...well maybe some people would decide they need shoes whatever the colour....but most would just not buy shoes that day.

Even if you look at it from entertainment it's like saying we are closing Alton towers or Disneyland paris for a day because not as many people will go to some rubbish dodgy fairground if they stay open...well that's kind of the idea of choice in a market.

No it's not and this sort of comparison is incredibly short sighted. Football clubs are more than just businesses and it's about time more people started realising that. It maybe as a fan of a superclub you are used to your club being a business first and foremost, but I thought it was that thinking that led many people to dislike the Glazers and the super league.

Football clubs in England are critical pillars of communities, they represent where people live, give people a chance to come together once a week, they are a hub. So no they are not shoe sellers or even Alton Towers, they are far more than just a product.

 

[Sassy Colin]

It’s some 70s bullshit. Scrap it immediately.

Fixed

 

[Trequarista10]

That seems the best compromise there.
Once you're in the premier league, "tradition" of 3pm Saturday games has taken a bit hit anyway.

The only thing against it, is that it is quite nice to have a string of 3pm Saturday games on at the same time.
And 12.30 or 5.30 are crap kick offs for a lot of fans who go to games.
So would you then make Sunday the regular match day? Or does that interfere with "Super Sunday" stuff?

There's a few different choices. I'd personally say Sunday but I haven't put much thought into it. Or maybe have 5 different time slots over the whole weekend, with two PL games on at each time slot, and you can select which one you want to watch.

 

[Adisa]

I keep saying it. I have batter access to games when I am in Nigeria than when I am in the UK...for a quarter of the price to boot.
It's fecking unacceptable.

 

[redshaw]

Difficult to say if it does effect lower league attendances. Streaming is so readily available that it could point to that it doesn't or at least any effect has already happened in the last 5-10 years so having it legal wouldn't change much. The people staying in to watch a stream are already doing that and also the big clubs are rarely on at 3pm so again I doubt lifting the blackout would change much.

 

[stevoc]

It's absolutely still the case. I have family member who regularly do it. I sometimes do it.

So you and your family would fall into the 2nd category of people who fancy a day out to watch live football then yes?

I doubt that's been the case for about 10 years.

The people who would watch 3pm football are the ones that are already streaming it illegally. (and who doesn't know how to do that these days?)

The people who fancy a day out to watch Shrewsbury will do that anyway.

 

[The Boy]

Fixed

It was introduced in 1987 when ITV struck their deal with football league.

 

[Sassy Colin]

It was introduced in 1987 when ITV struck their deal with football league.

There hasn't been live football at 3pm since the 70s.

3pm "blackout"
In the 1960s, Burnley F.C. chairman Bob Lord successfully convinced fellow Football League chairmen that televised matches on a Saturday afternoon would have a negative effect on the attendances of other football league games that were not being televised and as a result reduce their financial income.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_football_on_television

 

[Trequarista10]

I don't think you need to go that high tbh. Many fans who go to watch likes of Shrewsbury and Walsall couldn't care less that Chelsea have just signed Lukaku for 90m and find top flight football a turn off nowadays so will go regardless.

It's more to protect the likes of Dulwich Hamlett and clubs in non league pyramid. Mind you all of them have been playing BCD and seemed to survived so perhaps it wouldn't quite be the death knell the footballl authorities predict it would be.

Hmm, I think it protects all lower clubs, from amateur level upto even lower Premier League sides. You have some posters on this forum who follow United and a local side, and many of those local sides aren't exactly small clubs. Reading, Preston, QPR type level clubs who even have occasional stints in the top flight. Any fan base is a mix. I know many match going Bristol Rovers and City fans, some also follow a PL side, others refuse to, some would always choose a live match over a watching a PL game on TV, others wouldn't.

 

[stevoc]

Come on, it's not that simple.

Loads of people don't use illegal streams. Kids, people who aren't tech savvy, or people who get fed up with dodgy streams not working when you need them.

If you're a kid you don't have a choice. I grew up watching lower league football live most Saturdays, if I could watched United from home instead I would certainly have attended less live matches.

And loads of people do use streams that's my point. That's primarily the people who would watch 3pm kick-offs on TV. People who fancy a day out will still go down to watch a lower league game.

I don't care one way or another if the black-out stays in place. I just don't think it makes sense anymore and hasn't for a long time.

 

[The Boy]

There hasn't been live football at 3pm since the 70s.

Article 48 of UEFA’s statutes allow member nations to select a two-and-a-half-hour weekend slot where live football is banned from screens. Some reports suggest its origins date back to the 1950s but in England, the rule only emerged in 1987 when ITV struck a major television deal with the Football League.

That maybe the case, but according to The Athletic (quoted) and I'd be surprised if they were wrong, the rule was introduced in 1987. Personally I thought it was older than that, but obviously not.

 

[Abraxas]

I don't really think many of the arguments for the blackout make sense, or at least they're speculative to the extent that I don't think it justifies not providing an opportunity for people to make their own decisions. At the very least I'd like to see research or a trial to support the notion of a blackout to protect lower league sides.

Is being sat on the sofa watching a PL game really a direct comparison to going and watching the local side? I don't think it is, or at least not for many people. I think the reasons people go to a game are often quite different to the reason they might flick Sky Sports on. It's not just about the simple act of seeing a ball punted around a pitch.

 

[JB7]

I keep saying it. I have batter access to games when I am in Nigeria than when I am in the UK...for a quarter of the price to boot.
It's fecking unacceptable.

You don't have better access at all. If you're in the UK you can literally go to the game. People seem to be missing that side of things for some reason.