That Sensible Football Forum

noodlehair said:
Probably because everyone understands what the CE forum is about, so there's no need.

In time it'd be the same with this sensible football forum thingy, in time. Or perhaps not, in which case, who cares? it'd still have been worth a try
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But you thought there were bans from the CE, and cited it as the model for how this would be 'workable' in terms of demoting and promoting people.

There is no 'workable' model here to show the Elite Forum would succeed.

If you've been in the CE recently you'll see people exclaiming that 'Hitler was right', being proud that the UK is "certainly not pro-Muslim" and all sorts of other claptrap. There is no quality control whatsoever. So obviously people don't understand what its about and thus post sensibly.

I agree something is worth a shot, I just am convinced this would be way more trouble than it is worth, and if you'll give the 'cleaning up' thing time to work, lets evaluate it after a bit of time. It is the least disruptive solution as far as I can see. And it isn't about that crazy Weaste cull thing. Very limited cases is what we are talking about, and hopefully the message will be sent.
 
WeasteDevil said:
I only think that harsh measures need to be applied to the United, Matchday, and Football forums and the job is done. Along with Newbie abolishment.
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Obviously you have been here a lot longer than I have, so you would know what this place was like before the newbies. How often were we 'invaded' by rival WUM's, and why are the newbies such a bad idea? What was it like for a new poster joining this boards before the newbies were around?

Also, RedCafe now has 13,137 members (according to the homepage). Can any admin or mod give (very rough) figures as to what proportion of those members post regularly, and how many of them are in the newbies? If that is possible of course.
 
Davo said:
Aye, at the end of the day even the critics must agree that it has a chance of working, whereas the current situation isn't

What's the harm in trying?
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The 'current situation' hasn't even been in place for 3 weeks yet, and until the plan for implementing it gets more firmed down, it isn't even really happening.

I agree something has to change, we're trying to start that process.

There is a lot to lose, like the forum degenerating into Red Issue.
 
jasonrh said:
But you thought there were bans from the CE, and cited it as the model for how this would be 'workable' in terms of demoting and promoting people.

There is no 'workable' model here to show the Elite Forum would succeed.

If you've been in the CE recently you'll see people exclaiming that 'Hitler was right', being proud that the UK is "certainly not pro-Muslim" and all sorts of other claptrap. There is no quality control whatsoever. So obviously people don't understand what its about and thus post sensibly.

I agree something is worth a shot, I just am convinced this would be way more trouble than it is worth, and if you'll give the 'cleaning up' thing time to work, lets evaluate it after a bit of time. It is the least disruptive solution as far as I can see. And it isn't about that crazy Weaste cull thing. Very limited cases is what we are talking about, and hopefully the message will be sent.
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I never said there were bans from the CE, you've just made that up. If someone was spamming the CE with General type threads, they'd likely have their access from the CE removed.

Don't see why a forum for sensible football debate would be any different.

You're missing the point somewhat re: your valid remark about the CE forum being full of far out lunatics
 
jasonrh said:
The 'current situation' hasn't even been in place for 3 weeks yet, and until the plan for implementing it gets more firmed down, it isn't even really happening.

I agree something has to change, we're trying to start that process.

There is a lot to lose, like the forum degenerating into Red Issue.
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Exactly, like I said this is the only forum I give a toss about right now ... if it died I might have to actually go out and do more stuff.
 
Davo said:
What's over the top abuse? It's daft and in no way consistent...largely because there's no real plan bar a notion of "tidying the forum up"
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Interpretation of constitutes abuse is obviously left to each Mod, we do however discuss matters when it's borderline. I understand it's not consistent, never will be.
 
Frosty said:
Obviously you have been here a lot longer than I have, so you would know what this place was like before the newbies. How often were we 'invaded' by rival WUM's, and why are the newbies such a bad idea? What was it like for a new poster joining this boards before the newbies were around?

Also, RedCafe now has 13,137 members (according to the homepage). Can any admin or mod give (very rough) figures as to what proportion of those members post regularly, and how many of them are in the newbies? If that is possible of course.
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The point is, the newbies never had a chance to be comfortable in the "newbie zone", they were thrown in at the deep end back then and had to deal with the more senior members. They either sunk or they swam, simple as that. The newbie is nothing more than a way to help the Admin of this forum and reduce the workload. However, my argument is that the number of admin has always been far too few. Thus I suppose why we at least now have a few moderators. A mass scouse or Arse or whatever invasion was difficult to deal with, and required a lot of work to control, but sticking an extra layer of forums on top to keep people out is not productive in any way IMO. In fact it makes the long term situation in regards to the quality of the main forums far worse. And I've seen it work in every such way it has ever worked.
 
Sultan said:
Interpretation of constitutes abuse is obviously left to each Mod, we do however discuss matters when it's borderline. I understand it's not consistent, never will be.
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Again, it's part of the problem. Abuse and stick has always been part of the Caf, there's no need to worry about that....bar anything racist and the like, obviously.....the problem is the gimps that derail a thread that actually has some half decent debate in it.

No action's taken in these cases, you wait for posters to get arsed off and have a pop and then saunter in and have a whinge about calming down.
 
noodlehair said:
I never said there were bans from the CE, you've just made that up. If someone was spamming the CE with General type threads, they'd likely have their access from the CE removed.

Don't see why a forum for sensible football debate would be any different.

You're missing the point somewhat re: your valid remark about the CE forum being full of far out lunatics
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A football forum would be many times busier then the CE, policing that would be a fecking nightmare.
 
WeasteDevil said:
The point is, the newbies never had a chance to be comfortable in the "newbie zone", they were thrown in at the deep end back then and had to deal with the more senior members. They either sunk or they swam, simple as that. The newbie is nothing more than a way to help the Admin of this forum and reduce the workload. However, my argument is that the number of admin has always been far too few. Thus I suppose why we at least now have a few moderators. A mass scouse or Arse or whatever invasion was difficult to deal with, and required a lot of work to control, but sticking an extra layer of forums on top to keep people out is not productive in any way IMO. In fact it makes the long term situation in regards to the quality of the main forums far worse. And I've seen it work in every such way it has ever worked.
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Actually, I agree with your sentiments. The 'leap' from the newbies to the main forums is a huge one, and you can 'get away' with a lot less in the mains.

By the way, has anyone PM'd Niall about this idea?
 
Does noone think that things have improved (ever so slightly)?
 
WeasteDevil said:
Which after much discussion and promises never actually happens. Time, after time, after time again. It just gets worse, and worse, and worse. Nothing is ever done.
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There are 9 pages in the infraction thread, many are now denied posting rights in the United and matchday forums.
 
Mozza said:
A football forum would be many times busier then the CE, policing that would be a fecking nightmare.
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The particularly busy threads are the football forum are matchday threads, and when there's a big ruck between rival fans.

Both would stay where they are and continue as per normal...

Whereas decent debate would be seperated out into a new forum, where it wouldn't be derailed for no good reason
 
Sultan said:
There are 9 pages in the infraction thread, many are now denied posting rights in the United and matchday forums.
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It doesn't work does it?

Infractions are a joke in any case. It's another way to make the Admin life easier.

I never wanted an easy Admin life, I was quite happy to spend the time going into the admin panel to do it properly.
 
Davo said:
Again, it's part of the problem. Abuse and stick has always been part of the Caf, there's no need to worry about that....bar anything racist and the like, obviously.....the problem is the gimps that derail a thread that actually has some half decent debate in it.

No action's taken in these cases, you wait for posters to get arsed off and have a pop and then saunter in and have a whinge about calming down.
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Wrong. Infractions are handed for such offenses. They can't be banned for making a single mistake but 3-4 such mistakes can lead to a ban.
 
OK, all this aside ... what can be done for the Matchday threads? I'm willing to bet my username that the next Matchday thread will be another embarrassment of muppetry.
 
Davo said:
The particularly busy threads are the football forum are matchday threads, and when there's a big ruck between rival fans.

Both would stay where they are and continue as per normal...

Whereas decent debate would be seperated out into a new forum, where it wouldn't be derailed for no good reason
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Just as a matter of interest, what do you think that would do to the quality of the football forums that aren't 'elite'?

Could an elite forum actually improve the quality of the other forums, or not?
 
afrocentricity said:
OK, all this aside ... what can be done for the Matchday threads? I'm willing to bet my username that the next Matchday thread will be another embarrassment of muppetry.
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That is where all the main embarrassments reside. Who modertaes the matchday forums? Could we not make moderators for the matchday forum?
 
Frosty said:
Just as a matter of interest, what do you think that would do to the quality of the football forums that aren't 'elite'?

Could an elite forum actually improve the quality of the other forums, or not?
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Davo couldn't give a monkeys about the other forums.
 
Mozza said:
A football forum would be many times busier then the CE, policing that would be a fecking nightmare.
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It's not difficult to police if you know who your userbase is now is it?

In any case, the place should be as self regulating as it used to be. If they are an idiot, they stick out like a sore thumb. Unless they are here to spam and flame like hell (when it becomes totally clear within minutes what is going on), the senior posters rip the idiots to shreds. Said idiot cannot reply, results to mud slinging, and thus becomes very visible indeed -> can.

It's not a difficult concept.
 
Frosty said:
Just as a matter of interest, what do you think that would do to the quality of the football forums that aren't 'elite'?

Could an elite forum actually improve the quality of the other forums, or not?
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The Man Utd forum would stay as it is
The football forum would still be busy, you'd still get kick offs between rival fans and amusing threads
The transfer forum would still be full of weirdos
 
Davo said:
The particularly busy threads are the football forum are matchday threads, and when there's a big ruck between rival fans.

Both would stay where they are and continue as per normal...

Whereas decent debate would be seperated out into a new forum, where it wouldn't be derailed for no good reason
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What will be the difference between me and you having a debate on the merits of Alonso and Carrick and a ruck on the same?
 
Think about it this way Mozza - our arguments over Keane and Baraja. Neither of us could agree, but we did in the process provide (I hope) decent quality contributions to this forum in the process, and never once resulted to petty insults.
 
Matchday threads are always going to be crap. No ones got time to post anything of any length, it's always going to "FFS Brown", "1-0 Scholes", "feck off Bennett"
 
Mozza said:
What will be the difference between me and you having a debate on the merits of Alonso and Carrick and a ruck on the same?
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In the current football forum 10 daft manc twats would wade in with "Alonso's shit", "50,000 posts on a Man Utd site...:nervous::rolleyes::wenger:" and the like

You'd be able to have a long debate with Rubber Chef without him resorting to smilies

That's a point, no smilies on the decent forum...
 
WeasteDevil said:
It's not difficult to police if you know who your userbase is now is it?

In any case, the place should be as self regulating as it used to be. If they are an idiot, they stick out like a sore thumb. Unless they are here to spam and flame like hell (when it becomes totally clear within minutes what is going on), the senior posters rip the idiots to shreds. Said idiot cannot reply, results to mud slinging, and thus becomes very visible indeed -> can.

It's not a difficult concept.
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I regard you as an idiot Weaste when it comes to football, I don't think Davo knows much either, deciding who is an idiot is practically impossible for the mods.
 
Mozza said:
I regard you as an idiot Weaste when it comes to football, I don't think Davo knows much either, deciding who is an idiot is practically impossible for the mods.
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I regard you as an idiot full stop, but again, that does not stop me respecting your opinion. At least you are able to form one by yourself and stand by it.
 
Davo said:
In the current football forum 10 daft manc twats would wade in with "Alonso's shit", "50,000 posts on a Man Utd site...:nervous::rolleyes::wenger:" and the like

You'd be able to have a long debate with Rubber Chef without him resorting to smilies

That's a point, no smilies on the decent forum...
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Ignore the 10 daft twats and you've got it done. Only debate the ones worth debating.

Don't get caught up in it and drag your own threads wildly off topic into slugfests with the spastics.
 
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