Tennis 2018

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saivet said:
Maybe it's because no one makes as big a deal about it as Serena did, but I don't recall ever seeing a player getting a coaching violation. Any well known examples from top players?
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Nadal Wimbledon 2010 and Djokovic AO 2011 are probably the most famous. There's also Nadal IW 2013 and Djokovic USO 2013, or Djokovic FO 2018 if you want a more recent example.

Can't remember any Murray or Federer ones but I'm sure there are examples, as there are for every player.
 
Serena's behaviour was a disgrace and took what should have been a precious and glorious moment of possibly the next star of women's tennis and turned it into something ugly and all about her. Horrible scenes. Accept your first warning and move on for fecks sake. But nope, Serena has to let her ego get in the way and lecture the chair umpire. Then she proceeds to destroy her racquet and continue to taunt/scold the umpire calling him a thief. Well done for standing up yourself I suppose. Glad she lost.

Keeps It tidy said:
She was gracious in the trophy ceremony.
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Yeah after she made a complete mockery of the final. I'm seeing a lot of praise for her supposed sportsman spirit which is laughable given she completely fecked the entire final and maiden slam win of her opponent.
 
Kag said:
The world is bonkers. Genuinely bonkers. Acting like a bully and a spoilt brat (par for the course for Williams) is now being placed on a pedestal in the fight against sexism and chauvinism. Honestly, we've absolutely fecked it.

On court coaching is a code violation and players have been penalised before. Smashing a racket is a code violation and many (if not all) players are given code violations for this. I've watched Andy Murray in more or less all of his matches for over ten years and can vouch for this.

Abusing a referee through threatening to undermine their career and questioning their integrity is also a code violation. Ramos merely applied the law to a sportsperson that is well above their station.

Being a woman (or having a daughter) had absolutely nothing to do with Williams being penalised. Only her pathetic behaviour.

Naomi Osaka is a black woman from Japan, by the way. Somehow she managed not to be penalised for that injustice. Just Williams.

Players from within tennis need to call this as it is, because the narrative this morning is atrocious.
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Agree with every word.

The narrative is completely being twisted to suit Serena's ego filled agenda.
 
I am not sure how anyone could defend Serena's actions, she had a full blown meltdown. But I have argued that the umpire also lost the plot giving a game penalty as such a crucial point of the match because his feelings got hurt.
 
Seij said:
This type of behavior is why I've always cheered for Serena's opponents. I'd hoped that she'd mature as she grew older but now I'm convinced that she'll still act like a spoiled 5 year old kid when she's in her 60's.

Absolutely embarrassing from the US fans at the match as well.
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Unlikely to mature when the world has been telling you how wonderful you are for years. She has deserved much of the praise but the deification in recent years has been cringeworthy. Cult of personality has remarkable power.
 
Well, unfortunately, there is sexism, discrimination, racism and other shit in today's world, if Serena Williams, a black female with considerate influence, wants to do about it, how hard it may seem, then power to her.
 
Unam333 said:
Well, unfortunately, there is sexism, discrimination, racism and other shit in today's world, if Serena Williams, a black female with considerate influence, wants to do about it, how hard it may seem, then power to her.
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Terrible post.

Serena Williams antics last night did the exact opposite. She was an awful role model.

If she wanted to be a good role model, simply take the first warning, and mention in the post match presser about "double standards". However, going on to smash your racquet, rant at the umpire pointing at him in the face, demanding an apology and calling him a thief isn't doing anything to highlight racial or gender equality, it was Serena losing her shit because she was being outplayed.
 
Been reading a bit about this story and as someone who doesn't watch Tennis i have a question. Has this umpire been similarly harsh (i say harsh because that's how it's perceived to have been in every article i've read) with other players before? Both male and female? Is he just someone who's not afraid to dish out punishment regardless of who the player is, or was he making an example of of Serena yesterday?

Basically what i'm asking is, is this something that's out of character for this umpire?
 
I guess there's an argument to be made that when you're at the level Williams is at, the rules will apply more strictly to you and you're going to have to deal with more scrutiny. A bit like how SAF used to feel the FA were harsher on us compared to other clubs. She should be used to it by now though.

The way the match was going definitely played a huge part. I'm pretty sure she would have kept her cool if she was winning comfortably.

I also don't like the "no coaching" rule. Just let them do whatever they want, a few hand signals and words are not going to have a huge impact on the game. A player shouldn't be punished for the mistake of a coach. If anything, ban the coach from the stands
 
Was absolutely livid with Serena last night. She's probably the single most talented player I've ever seen play the sport - her ability to stand practically on the baseline and deal with everything is absolutely ridiculous. And it's been great to see her win so many titles.

But she remains the same spoiled child that she's always been. I have a running joke with my tennis friends that she's never lost a match, only ever been injured or playing through injury.

What she did last night was unforgivable. She's the senior pro on tour, with more experience than most of the field combined. She's not some teenager. She has no excuses.

She told the umpire that he'd never be in a match of hers again. Imagine the f*cking ego to say something like that? Then called him a thief, as she went on and on about how it's his fault she just hit two double-faults in a crucial game. I think it's absolutely wonderful that he called her on it - if anything she's right a lot of umpires would have let it slide which is absolutely wrong.

Then she goes down the f*cking feminism road? Like this was all some planned protest about inequality (of which there is plenty in tennis)? Just ridiculous. And of course some of the US fans are sucking it up because if there's anything that's American, it's being so special that rules shouldn't apply to you.

Osaka kicked her ass, and deserves to be the talking point.
 
BusbyMalone said:
Been reading a bit about this story and as someone who doesn't watch Tennis i have a question. Has this umpire been similarly harsh (i say harsh because that's how it's perceived to have been in every article i've read) with other players before? Both male and female? Is he just someone who's not afraid to dish out punishment regardless of who the player is, or was he making an example of of Serena yesterday?

Basically what i'm asking is, is this something that's out of character for this umpire?
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It's very much in character for him. Think most fans would say he's either the strictest umpire around or the only one doing his job properly, depending on their viewpoint.

http://larrybrownsports.com/tennis/...istory-code-violations-serena-williams/463180

There's a list of some incidents, only goes back to 2016 by the looks of it and focuses on the better known players. I recommend not reading the comments.
 
Discrimination, sexism, racism are serious problems that exist for years and years and have serious impact on vulnerable individuals and society in general.
There are different ways to express your distain about the issue, vocal, less vocal, rational, mental, either way the goal is the same.
Others have tried to be more diplomatic, maybe it's time to be vocal (even mental) about it, because these problems just don't go away, or else it will be just a footnote in the grand scheme of things.

I do feel for Naomi Osaka. It was her big day. I hope that she has a bit of sympathy and understanding for the situation, considering her mixed background.
 
Did someone just say Serena is the most talented to play the sport?

Erm nope. She couldn't even beat a guy who was ranked 200.

She's the best on the female side. But the standard between men and women is big.
 
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What we need to know is...are they fathers?
 
Unam333 said:
Discrimination, sexism, racism are serious problems that exist for years and years and have serious impact on vulnerable individuals and society in general.
There are different ways to express your distain about the issue, vocal, less vocal, rational, mental, either way the goal is the same.
Others have tried to be more diplomatic, maybe it's time to be vocal (even mental) about it, because these problems just don't go away, or else it will be just a footnote in the grand scheme of things.

I do feel for Naomi Osaka. It was her big day. I hope that she has a bit of sympathy and understanding for the situation, considering her mixed background.
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Just because these things exist doesn’t give you a free pass to accuse someone in front of the world of being sexist just because you don’t like their call.

There’s a difference between being vocal and throwing accusations around at someone because you’re pissed off you’re losing.
 
Giggsy92 said:
It's very much in character for him. Think most fans would say he's either the strictest umpire around or the only one doing his job properly, depending on their viewpoint.

http://larrybrownsports.com/tennis/...istory-code-violations-serena-williams/463180

There's a list of some incidents, only goes back to 2016 by the looks of it and focuses on the better known players. I recommend not reading the comments.
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Thanks for the link. The first thing i was interested in when i read this story is whether this was something that was out of character. And as you say, it doesn't seem to be. I've read two articles on this story and the author of the one straight up said that the umpire only done this because he wouldn't accept a woman talking to him like that. Seems to me he doesn't accept anyone talking to him like that, regardless of who they are.

From my (very limited) understanding of the sport, these calls from umpire seem perfectly legitimate and correct and any claims of sexism are completely ridiculous.
 
Beachryan said:
Was absolutely livid with Serena last night. She's probably the single most talented player I've ever seen play the sport - her ability to stand practically on the baseline and deal with everything is absolutely ridiculous. And it's been great to see her win so many titles.

But she remains the same spoiled child that she's always been. I have a running joke with my tennis friends that she's never lost a match, only ever been injured or playing through injury.

What she did last night was unforgivable. She's the senior pro on tour, with more experience than most of the field combined. She's not some teenager. She has no excuses.

She told the umpire that he'd never be in a match of hers again. Imagine the f*cking ego to say something like that? Then called him a thief, as she went on and on about how it's his fault she just hit two double-faults in a crucial game. I think it's absolutely wonderful that he called her on it - if anything she's right a lot of umpires would have let it slide which is absolutely wrong.

Then she goes down the f*cking feminism road? Like this was all some planned protest about inequality (of which there is plenty in tennis)? Just ridiculous. And of course some of the US fans are sucking it up because if there's anything that's American, it's being so special that rules shouldn't apply to you.

Osaka kicked her ass, and deserves to be the talking point.
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Yeah hope it doesn't take any of the shine off it for Osaka. Fantastic achievement for her and shame this nonsense is the focus.
 
Bojan11 said:
Did someone just say Serena is the most talented to play the sport?

Erm nope. She couldn't even beat a guy who was ranked 200.

She's the best on the female side. But the standard between men and women is big.
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She’s certainly one of the most talented to play the sport. Not being able to beat a male player is not a measure of anything in that regard.
 
Did the crowd boo Osaka? Seriously?!

That could be unprecedented in Tennis.
 
The umpire shouldn't apologize for anything. Most refs in all sport intermittently made decisions on varying degrees of strictness depending on the circumstances. As refs, they have the discretion to do so. Serena simply lost control of her emotions because she couldn't crack Osaka's code and knew she was likely on her way to getting humiliated by a 20 year old on one of the biggest stages in Tennis - she got a questionable call and allowed the emotion of the moment take over. She could've just as easily shrugged it off and continue to fight but she lacked the emotional stability to do so. I've always been a fan of hers but last night, much like 2004 and 2009, was a stain on her legacy.
 
I don't think the crowd booed directly Osaka. They booed the officials , and offered subdued applause when Osaka spoke. Still disgraceful behaviour for a non Davis cup tennis crowd though.
 
There is no doubt that tennis is rife with sexism, and Serena Williams has definitely been a victim - the issue of her catsuit at Roland Garros being a recent example. That being said, I just don't see it with what happened yesterday.

Her coach was issued a warning for coaching - the rule is that coaches can't coach from the stands - the umpire wasn't accusing Serena of cheating, but he was penalizing her because a team member broke the rules (something which her coach later admitted to.) Now you can make the argument that this rule isn't evenly enforced, but that's hardly unique in any sport, and I don't think you can expect the ump at the moment of enforcement to go through his mental rolodex and consult how often a rule is enforced; what's more, it would be bizarre to criticize an official for actually enforcing a rule. Criticize the rule if you like, but don't criticize an official for enforcing it.

Next, Serena received another warning for breaking her racket - pretty standard issue, something players regularly face. However, because of the previous warning, she was docked a point.

Following this, Serena embarked on a lengthy diatribe against the official, demanding that he apologize (something that no official, in any sport, has ever done - and why would he, given that he was enforcing a written rule?) She even said that he would never officiate another one of her matches (an incredibly arrogant thing to say, although perhaps excusable given the heat of the moment.) She then went next level and called him a 'thief'. A lot of the media seem to be downplaying this remark, but in my opinion that's a pretty inflammatory remark to make against an official whose job is based on impartiality. After pretty patiently sitting through the outburst, the ump assessed her a game penalty, which is what happens for a third violation. It should also be noted at this point, that Serena has previous with this kind of thing (she has previously called an ump a loser and threatened a linesperson with physical harm.)

I keep hearing that male players get away with similar abuse, but I'm not sure I remember too many players going off an official the way Serena did. The ones that spring to mind (McEnroe, Tarango and Fognini) were given match misconducts, which is far more severe than what Williams was given.

Finally, this is the second time that Serena has managed to upstage what should've been a great moment for a first-time Slam winner - Stosur in 2011, and Osaka last night.
 
jem said:
There is no doubt that tennis is rife with sexism, and Serena Williams has definitely been a victim - the issue of her catsuit at Roland Garros being a recent example. That being said, I just don't see it with what happened yesterday.

Her coach was issued a warning for coaching - the rule is that coaches can't coach from the stands - the umpire wasn't accusing Serena of cheating, but he was penalizing her because a team member broke the rules (something which her coach later admitted to.) Now you can make the argument that this rule isn't evenly enforced, but that's hardly unique in any sport, and I don't think you can expect the ump at the moment of enforcement to go through his mental rolodex and consult how often a rule is enforced; what's more, it would be bizarre to criticize an official for actually enforcing a rule. Criticize the rule if you like, but don't criticize an official for enforcing it.

Next, Serena received another warning for breaking her racket - pretty standard issue, something players regularly face. However, because of the previous warning, she was docked a point.

Following this, Serena embarked on a lengthy diatribe against the official, demanding that he apologize (something that no official, in any sport, has ever done - and why would he, given that he was enforcing a written rule?) She even said that he would never officiate another one of her matches (an incredibly arrogant thing to say, although perhaps excusable given the heat of the moment.) She then went next level and called him a 'thief'. A lot of the media seem to be downplaying this remark, but in my opinion that's a pretty inflammatory remark to make against an official whose job is based on impartiality. After pretty patiently sitting through the outburst, the ump assessed her a game penalty, which is what happens for a third violation. It should also be noted at this point, that Serena has previous with this kind of thing (she has previously called an ump a loser and threatened a linesperson with physical harm.)

I keep hearing that male players get away with similar abuse, but I'm not sure I remember too many players going off an official the way Serena did. The ones that spring to mind (McEnroe, Tarango and Fognini) were given match misconducts, which is far more severe than what Williams was given.

Finally, this is the second time that Serena has managed to upstage what should've been a great moment for a first-time Slam winner - Stosur in 2011, and Osaka last night.
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The number of articles suggesting that Serena should be treated differently (or rules should be humanely implemented) because of various reasons like color, gender and her tough rags to riches story is hilarious
 
RedDevil@84 said:
The number of articles suggesting that Serena should be treated differently (or rules should be humanely implemented) because of various reasons like color, gender and her tough rags to riches story is hilarious
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And deeply patronizing. She has undoubtedly been treated badly during her career (comments on her physique, clothing, Indian Wells, etc.) But last night was on her, as far as I'm concerned.
 
jem said:
And deeply patronizing. She has undoubtedly been treated badly during her career (comments on her physique, clothing, Indian Wells, etc.) But last night was on her, as far as I'm concerned.
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The easiest way to look at what happened yesterday is to reverse the roles. Had Osaka been given a coaching warning, what would've happened next ? She would've almost surely taken it and then refocused on the match. She wouldn't have broken a racket or gotten into a multi-game rant session with the umpire about something that happened earlier in the set, and would've probably played much better for her efforts to stay focused. Ultimately, this was all on Serena - and rather than making some sort of cultural discrimination spectacle out of it, she should just focus on what went wrong with herself and aim to not repeat it.
 
The umpire was following the rules and didn't do anything wrong. If sexism is present in tennis and men really are treated differently then that's separate issue and should be investigated. But for Serena to take it upon herself to referee her own behaviour because she believes men would get away with it is wrong, and she comes out of it looking like the villain. I absolutely can't stand people casually throwing sexism accusations around because they didn't get their own way. It does nothing but damage the fantastic progress we've made in creating equality amongst men and women.
 
Another thing, I think the officials at the Open were at fault for not quieting the crowd before the Award ceremony. Someone, the announcer, some official, one of the former tennis pros broadcasting, should have got on the public announcement system and told the disgraceful crowd to stop booing before the ceremony.
 
While I think the umpire could and should have handled the situation differently, this whole Serena was defending women and mothers everywhere angle is ridiculous.
 
reelworld said:
The state of US media is embarrassing at the moment. Almost everyone defend her
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Sign of the times we live in...where every group that has a political grievance (but probably never watch Tennis) are suddenly using this to springboard into their agenda of choice.
 
CNN had one of their sports analysts (Christine Brennan) on and the things she was implying was disgraceful. She was asking if the umpire behaved this way because Serena is African-American and casually implying the umpire is a racist.
 
Fergies Gum said:
CNN had one of their sports analysts (Christine Brennan) on and the things she was implying was disgraceful. She was asking if the umpire behaved this way because Serena is African-American and casually implying the umpire is a racist.
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Fecking hell. Throwing around such accusations when there is no basis whatsoever just triviliazes the real cases where it's indeed justified .
 
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