Surveillance Draft

harms said:
Willing to bet something on @DavidG 's pick :lol:
Well, not really, but it would be funny if I get it right
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Ill let you make my 14th round pick if you get it right. If you get it wrong, I get to make a 14th round pick for you in a future draft.
 
Physiocrat said:
Remember you can't pick anyone who was a round 1 or 2 pick in the reinforcements.
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That rule probably shouldn't have been in play as it makes things far easier.

The real complexity would have been picking no mates while allowing for the big kahoonas later. E.g. pick Zanetti and it means no Messi upgrade unless you can get another RB while if you can't get him anyway...
 
Downcast said:
Surveillance draft?

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OMG, stop threatening us 4ever.
 
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Gio - 1. Messi
The Stain - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo
OneNil - 1. P. Maldini 2.
DavidG - 1. Ronaldo 2.
Raees/Invictus 1. Nesta 2. Davids
Bleezy 1. Sammer 2. R. Carlos
Skizzo 1. Ronaldinho 2. Lizarazu
Mazhar/Enigma 1. Desailly 2. Zanetti
Tuppet 1. Zidane 2. Schweinsteiger
VivaJanuzaj/EAP 1. Lahm 2. L. Suarez
Physiocrat 1. Thuram 2. Modric
Downcast 1. R. Baggio 2. Kaka
P-Nut 1. R. Keane 2. Vieira
Aldo/prath92 1. Totti 2. Rivaldo
Pat Mustard 1. Redondo 2. Figo
Joga Bonito 1. Xavi 2. Nedved

@DavidG
 
Gio - 1. Messi
The Stain - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo
OneNil - 1. P. Maldini 2.
DavidG - 1. Ronaldo 2. Godin
Raees/Invictus 1. Nesta 2. Davids
Bleezy 1. Sammer 2. R. Carlos
Skizzo 1. Ronaldinho 2. Lizarazu
Mazhar/Enigma 1. Desailly 2. Zanetti
Tuppet 1. Zidane 2. Schweinsteiger
VivaJanuzaj/EAP 1. Lahm 2. L. Suarez
Physiocrat 1. Thuram 2. Modric
Downcast 1. R. Baggio 2. Kaka
P-Nut 1. R. Keane 2. Vieira
Aldo/prath92 1. Totti 2. Rivaldo
Pat Mustard 1. Redondo 2. Figo
Joga Bonito 1. Xavi 2. Nedved

@oneniltothearsenal

@harms did you get it?!
 
antohan said:
That rule probably shouldn't have been in play as it makes things far easier.

The real complexity would have been picking no mates while allowing for the big kahoonas later. E.g. pick Zanetti and it means no Messi upgrade unless you can get another RB while if you can't get him anyway...
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Yeah, I hadn't realised that it was in play but it does reduce the strategy element of the drafting somewhat.
 
Gio said:
Yeah, I hadn't realised that it was in play but it does reduce the strategy element of the drafting somewhat.
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Exactly. I realised it only now when it was reposted. Obviously it's my mistake for not reading thoroughly but I really miss the point of it. Never mind though, a rule is a rule.
 
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Gio - 1. Messi
The Stain - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo
OneNil - 1. P. Maldini 2. Ferdinand
DavidG - 1. Ronaldo 2. Godin
Raees/Invictus 1. Nesta 2. Davids
Bleezy 1. Sammer 2. R. Carlos
Skizzo 1. Ronaldinho 2. Lizarazu
Mazhar/Enigma 1. Desailly 2. Zanetti
Tuppet 1. Zidane 2. Schweinsteiger
VivaJanuzaj/EAP 1. Lahm 2. L. Suarez
Physiocrat 1. Thuram 2. Modric
Downcast 1. R. Baggio 2. Kaka
P-Nut 1. R. Keane 2. Vieira
Aldo/prath92 1. Totti 2. Rivaldo
Pat Mustard 1. Redondo 2. Figo
Joga Bonito 1. Xavi 2. Nedved


We'll see if this strategic choice pays off, a bit outside the box for me this one.

@The Stain
 
Gio said:
Yeah, I hadn't realised that it was in play but it does reduce the strategy element of the drafting somewhat.
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Really? I think it increases the strategic planning a lot. Can't just count on getting the predictable GOATS in reinforcements so we have to plan around a flexible strategy for the mid-late rounds esp. with injuries in play. I think restricting the reinforcements makes the no maters rule more important.
 
Aldo said:
It avoids latter stages being boring with teams loaded with superstars so I'm all for it.
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I think that's very unlikely given the constraints and the likely difficulties easily reinforcing.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Really? I think it increases the strategic planning a lot. Can't just count on getting the predictable GOATS in reinforcements so we have to plan around a flexible strategy for the mid-late rounds esp. with injuries in play. I think restricting the reinforcements makes the no maters rule more important.
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The more challenging the better as far as I'm concerned. It's not about access to GOATs - more about deepening the billy-no-mates challenge as most of the R1 and R2 picks have played for a number of the top clubs. So that introduces a level of complexity and forward planning that will be less prevalent.

But I'm not arsed either way, quite happy with it is really, just an observation.
 
Proper wanted to pick up Godin under the radar.
 
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Gio - 1. Messi
The Stain - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Batistuta
OneNil - 1. P. Maldini 2. Ferdinand
DavidG - 1. Ronaldo 2. Godin
Raees/Invictus 1. Nesta 2. Davids
Bleezy 1. Sammer 2. R. Carlos
Skizzo 1. Ronaldinho 2. Lizarazu
Mazhar/Enigma 1. Desailly 2. Zanetti
Tuppet 1. Zidane 2. Schweinsteiger
VivaJanuzaj/EAP 1. Lahm 2. L. Suarez
Physiocrat 1. Thuram 2. Modric
Downcast 1. R. Baggio 2. Kaka
P-Nut 1. R. Keane 2. Vieira
Aldo/prath92 1. Totti 2. Rivaldo
Pat Mustard 1. Redondo 2. Figo
Joga Bonito 1. Xavi 2. Nedved

@Gio
 
Gio said:
The more challenging the better as far as I'm concerned. It's not about access to GOATs - more about deepening the billy-no-mates challenge as most of the R1 and R2 picks have played for a number of the top clubs. So that introduces a level of complexity and forward planning that will be less prevalent.

But I'm not arsed either way, quite happy with it is really, just an observation.
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It's in your interest to keep it like this, given you have the top GOAT in the pool.
 
Gio said:
The more challenging the better as far as I'm concerned. It's not about access to GOATs - more about deepening the billy-no-mates challenge as most of the R1 and R2 picks have played for a number of the top clubs. So that introduces a level of complexity and forward planning that will be less prevalent.

But I'm not arsed either way, quite happy with it is really, just an observation.
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I hadn't really considered this aspect I just went with the default EAP rule to restrict the number of GOATs. In retrospect I could possibly have lifted the restriction but there are going to loads of round 3 and later picks who have played at a number of top clubs so it's not that the strategy goes out of the window. I started with the rule so it will continue accordingly. Maybe something to consider for the 46-66 draft with the Billy No Mates Rule.
 
Gio said:
The more challenging the better as far as I'm concerned. It's not about access to GOATs - more about deepening the billy-no-mates challenge as most of the R1 and R2 picks have played for a number of the top clubs. So that introduces a level of complexity and forward planning that will be less prevalent.

But I'm not arsed either way, quite happy with it is really, just an observation.
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I think not allowing Rd1+2 picks in reinforcements is more challenging though. Much easier to do a straight upgrade in later rounds allowing R1 and 2 picks compared to now where reinforcements will be like Americas draft and much more strategic without automatic upgrades available. For me it adds an extra layer of strategy to the initial draft that wouldn't be there at all if all picks were open in later rounds.
 
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Gio - 1. Messi 2. Cafu 3. Cannavaro
The Stain - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Batistuta
OneNil - 1. P. Maldini 2. Ferdinand
DavidG - 1. Ronaldo 2. Godin
Raees/Invictus 1. Nesta 2. Davids
Bleezy 1. Sammer 2. R. Carlos
Skizzo 1. Ronaldinho 2. Lizarazu
Mazhar/Enigma 1. Desailly 2. Zanetti
Tuppet 1. Zidane 2. Schweinsteiger
VivaJanuzaj/EAP 1. Lahm 2. L. Suarez
Physiocrat 1. Thuram 2. Modric
Downcast 1. R. Baggio 2. Kaka
P-Nut 1. R. Keane 2. Vieira
Aldo/prath92 1. Totti 2. Rivaldo
Pat Mustard 1. Redondo 2. Figo
Joga Bonito 1. Xavi 2. Nedved

@The Stain
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I think not allowing Rd1+2 picks in reinforcements is more challenging though. Much easier to do a straight upgrade in later rounds allowing R1 and 2 picks compared to now where reinforcements will be like Americas draft and much more strategic without automatic upgrades available. For me it adds an extra layer of strategy to the initial draft that wouldn't be there at all if all picks were open in later rounds.
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Nah, the club + country constraints are more than enough. It removes the challenge of riding your luck on suboptimal picks designed to allow for the jackpot later.

E.g. in the All-Time draft I didn't pick an Argie at all and for most GOATs I picked a lower tier player for the same role to allow for straight upgrades: a German in midfield holding the slot for Kaiser or Lothar, a Brazilian upfront waiting for any number of Brazilian forwards, and so on. In turn, @Cutch ended up losing because all his RB upgrades needed him losing a key player elsewhere.

Look at the R1 picks and think about how much harder it would be to plan ahead for a team that could accommodate them (e.g. not picking a key player that would clash with eventual Messi/Cristian/Maldini/Ronaldo/Goofy upgrade opportunities).

The eventual winner would necessarily be the drafter that found the best balance between progressing from R1 and upgrading effectively. That's actually the fun with tight constraints: can you navigate them so your reinforcements are giant leaps and not marginal cosmetic improvements.
 
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Gio - 1. Messi 2. Cafu 3. Cannavaro
The Stain - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Batistuta 3. Iniesta
OneNil - 1. P. Maldini 2. Ferdinand
DavidG - 1. Ronaldo 2. Godin
Raees/Invictus 1. Nesta 2. Davids
Bleezy 1. Sammer 2. R. Carlos
Skizzo 1. Ronaldinho 2. Lizarazu
Mazhar/Enigma 1. Desailly 2. Zanetti
Tuppet 1. Zidane 2. Schweinsteiger
VivaJanuzaj/EAP 1. Lahm 2. L. Suarez
Physiocrat 1. Thuram 2. Modric
Downcast 1. R. Baggio 2. Kaka
P-Nut 1. R. Keane 2. Vieira
Aldo/prath92 1. Totti 2. Rivaldo
Pat Mustard 1. Redondo 2. Figo
Joga Bonito 1. Xavi 2. Nedved
 
antohan said:
Nah, the club + country constraints are more than enough. It removes the challenge of riding your luck on suboptimal picks designed to allow for the jackpot later.

E.g. in the All-Time draft I didn't pick an Argie at all and for most GOATs I picked a lower tier player for the same role to allow for straight upgrades: a German in midfield holding the slot for Kaiser or Lothar, a Brazilian upfront waiting for any number of Brazilian forwards, and so on. In turn, @Cutch ended up losing because all his RB upgrades needed him losing a key player elsewhere.

Look at the R1 picks and think about how much harder it would be to plan ahead for a team that could accommodate them (e.g. not picking a key player that would clash with eventual Messi/Cristian/Maldini/Ronaldo/Goofy upgrade opportunities).

The eventual winner would necessarily be the drafter that found the best balance between progressing from R1 and upgrading effectively. That's actually the fun with tight constraints: can you navigate them so your reinforcements are giant leaps and not marginal cosmetic improvements.
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I understand what you mean here but I just don't see that option as more strategic, especially taking the injury angle into account. Its simply different types of strategy. One offers an obvious plan like you say riding luck on suboptimal picks and hoping to land a GOAT later. The other is more dependent on flexibility of options because of the injuries and lack of easy 1 for 1 upgrades.
 
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Gio - 1. Messi 2. Cafu 3. Cannavaro
The Stain - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Batistuta 3. Iniesta
OneNil - 1. P. Maldini 2. Ferdinand 3. Henry
DavidG - 1. Ronaldo 2. Godin 3.
Raees/Invictus 1. Nesta 2. Davids
Bleezy 1. Sammer 2. R. Carlos
Skizzo 1. Ronaldinho 2. Lizarazu
Mazhar/Enigma 1. Desailly 2. Zanetti
Tuppet 1. Zidane 2. Schweinsteiger
VivaJanuzaj/EAP 1. Lahm 2. L. Suarez
Physiocrat 1. Thuram 2. Modric
Downcast 1. R. Baggio 2. Kaka
P-Nut 1. R. Keane 2. Vieira
Aldo/prath92 1. Totti 2. Rivaldo
Pat Mustard 1. Redondo 2. Figo
Joga Bonito 1. Xavi 2. Nedved

@DavidG
 
The Stain said:
379100_andres_iniesta.jpg


Gio - 1. Messi 2. Cafu 3. Cannavaro
The Stain - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Batistuta 3. Iniesta
OneNil - 1. P. Maldini 2. Ferdinand
DavidG - 1. Ronaldo 2. Godin
Raees/Invictus 1. Nesta 2. Davids
Bleezy 1. Sammer 2. R. Carlos
Skizzo 1. Ronaldinho 2. Lizarazu
Mazhar/Enigma 1. Desailly 2. Zanetti
Tuppet 1. Zidane 2. Schweinsteiger
VivaJanuzaj/EAP 1. Lahm 2. L. Suarez
Physiocrat 1. Thuram 2. Modric
Downcast 1. R. Baggio 2. Kaka
P-Nut 1. R. Keane 2. Vieira
Aldo/prath92 1. Totti 2. Rivaldo
Pat Mustard 1. Redondo 2. Figo
Joga Bonito 1. Xavi 2. Nedved
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Insane how he wasn't picked in the first two rounds. That's quite the offense you have, as it stands.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I understand what you mean here but I just don't see that option as more strategic, especially taking the injury angle into account. Its simply different types of strategy. One offers an obvious plan like you say riding luck on suboptimal picks and hoping to land a GOAT later. The other is more dependent on flexibility of options because of the injuries and lack of easy 1 for 1 upgrades.
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You would need to allow for BOTH.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Insane how he wasn't picked in the first two rounds. That's quite the offense you have, as it stands.
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Was considering the sensible approach in picking two fullbacks but in the end went full muppet.
 
antohan said:
Nah, the club + country constraints are more than enough.
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It's constraining for sure but it isn't something that would always avoid the possibility of one collecting multiple top players, a lot of them actually never played with each other.

The example of the all time draft, our winning team had Maradona, Pele and Beckenbauer in the final which is the sort of scenario that we are trying to avoid here. We just had a final where one team had those same three players and it's just a dead end as far as analysis goes unless there's a brainfart or something innovative, which wasn't the case there.

I'm a big supporter of this new reinforcements rule and I wish it becomes a permanent part of these drafts.
 
Aldo said:
It's constraining for sure but it isn't something that would always avoid the possibility of one collecting multiple top players, a lot of them actually never played with each other.

The example of the all time draft, our winning team had Maradona, Pele and Beckenbauer in the final which is the sort of scenario that we are trying to avoid here. We just had a final where one team had those same three players and it's just a dead end as far as analysis goes unless there's a brainfart or something innovative, which wasn't the case there.

I'm a big supporter of this new reinforcements rule and I wish it becomes a permanent part of these drafts.
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This pool isn't all-time and the constraints (not just country but club, in an era with a lot of crossovers) would quickly get you tangled up if you want the top players to remain a possibility.

I like the rule. One thing that bored me and put me off drafts was precisely how big name collections inevitably emerged and prevailed over better constructed sides. But what we lost even before that was the art of planning for flexibility/adaptability. The last draft didn't have that for obvious reasons, and in a draft designed to showcase lesser know players (e.g. SAM) it's absolutely necessary. I just don't think it works too well here.

If you want to prevent superteams the other variant to revisit is reinforcing from your rival. That's how we ended up with Pelé and Maradona despite wanting Romario and Messi!

-------------------------Romario
Stoichkov----------Laudrup--------------Messi
-----------------Rijkaard---Beckenbauer
Facchetti---Figueroa--Ferdinand---Andrade
---------------------------Dassaev

:drool:
 
antohan said:
This pool isn't all-time and the constraints (not just country but club, in an era with a lot of crossovers) would quickly get you tangled up if you want the top players to remain a possibility.

I like the rule. One thing that bored me and put me off drafts was precisely how big name collections inevitably emerged and prevailed over better constructed sides. But what we lost even before that was the art of planning for flexibility/adaptability. The last draft didn't have that for obvious reasons, and in a draft designed to showcase lesser know players (e.g. SAM) it's absolutely necessary. I just don't think it works too well here.

If you want to prevent superteams the other variant to revisit is reinforcing from your rival. That's how we ended up with Pelé and Maradona despite wanting Romario and Messi!
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I think the R1+2 reinforcement restrictions still allows the exact strategic effect you mention, its just at one tier down. I mean look at the R3 picks so far (Cannavaro, Iniesta, Henry). They are already going to be instant 1v1 upgrades for some teams' R6+ picks just not as obvious as say Maldini, Messi and Ronaldo (both).
 
Gio - 1. Messi 2. Cafu 3. Cannavaro
The Stain - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Batistuta 3. Iniesta
OneNil - 1. P. Maldini 2. Ferdinand 3. Henry
DavidG - 1. Ronaldo 2. Godin 3.Bergkamp
Raees/Invictus 1. Nesta 2. Davids
Bleezy 1. Sammer 2. R. Carlos
Skizzo 1. Ronaldinho 2. Lizarazu
Mazhar/Enigma 1. Desailly 2. Zanetti
Tuppet 1. Zidane 2. Schweinsteiger
VivaJanuzaj/EAP 1. Lahm 2. L. Suarez
Physiocrat 1. Thuram 2. Modric
Downcast 1. R. Baggio 2. Kaka
P-Nut 1. R. Keane 2. Vieira
Aldo/prath92 1. Totti 2. Rivaldo
Pat Mustard 1. Redondo 2. Figo
Joga Bonito 1. Xavi 2. Nedved

@Raees @Invictus
 
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