Sunderland bid £12m for O'Shea, Gibson & Brown

Lance Uppercut said:
An out and out winger with zero experience of playing RB (to my knowledge) filled in and did a more than decent job. Yet you think it is "wildly optimistic" to believe that a defender who was chased by SAF, Wenger and Kenny could do a similar job?

Right. This one has run it's course, I think.
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He filled in for a portion of one game Lance, not for a 5 or 6 game run like O'Shea is capable of. If you are talking about a portion of a game then yes i agree, Rooney could probably fill in under those circumstances.

However if we are judging on significantly longer spells both home and away, then my argument still stands. I am not saying Jones cannot do this job, only that so far you have no basis upon which to make such a claim.
 
I'm convinced that O'Shea will be exposed as that shockingly average player he really is at Sunderland. He's gotten away with a lot in recent seasons. "Ah look at that another horrible misplaced pass, that's our Sheasy!".
 
apotheosis said:
He filled in for a portion of one game Lance, not for a 5 or 6 game run like O'Shea is capable of. If you are talking about a portion of a game then yes i agree, Rooney could probably fill in under those circumstances.

However if we are judging on significantly longer spells both home and away, then my argument still stands. I am not saying Jones cannot do this job, only that so far you have no basis upon which to make such a claim.
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Other than my opinion?
 
apotheosis said:
Fair enough Lance, you are indeed fully entitled to your opinion, regardless of however bizarre and speculative the logic that was used to formulate it. ;)
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Yep, watching a player perform on the pitch and deciding he has all the attributes to do a job at RB if required, is out of this world bizarre.

Let's face it, though, if John fecking O'Shea can do it, anyone can. :p
 
R.Nilsson7 said:
I'm convinced that O'Shea will be exposed as that shockingly average player he really is at Sunderland. He's gotten away with a lot in recent season. "Ah look at that another horrible misplaced pass, that's our Sheasy!".
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Quoted, before you delete it due to fear and intimidation.
 
But you're Irish gb, so your opinion doesn't count :)

Sentimentality aside, I think it's the right time for him to move on. He's been a great servant but his ability is limited and SAF is building for the future. It seems O'Shea isn't part of his plans, who are we to argue?

Another factor I think a lot of us are missing is that it seems like he's trying to reduce the wage bill too. VDS, Neville & Scholes are all off it, Hargreaves is off it, and now it looks like Gibson, Brown & O'Shea will be off it. It all mounts up to an incredible sum over a year.
 
R.Nilsson7 said:
I'm convinced that O'Shea will be exposed as that shockingly average player he really is at Sunderland. He's gotten away with a lot in recent season. "Ah look at that another horrible misplaced pass, that's our Sheasy!".
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If he goes I expect he'll end up like Phil Neville did at Everton. Not an outstanding player, but he'll bring experience and character to the team.

People always underestimate the mentality you must need to survive at a top club, even if you're not a star player. He'll be a good signing for Sunderland.
 
If we lose O'Shea and Gibson, is this the first time in memory that we won't have a proper Irishman in or around our starting lineup?
 
It is harsh on O'Shea, but I feel Evans has much more talent and can be moulded into a good utility defender.

Rafael and Fábio are also phenomenal young fullbacks and both should play whenever they are fit and available.
 
Sharky7 said:
We have 3 players that can compete for our full back spots and a load of others that can fill in, I'm not at all worried.
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we're going around in circles here

we have 3 recognised fullbacks IF as expected O'Shea and Brown both leave

Out of those 3, 2 of them have proven to be quite injury prone in their young careers

The others you speak off are not specialised full-backs. The squad will be short and unbalanced. There is a rule of thumb that says you should have 2 players for every position. So, unless Fergie is going to promote someone from the reserves, I believe we need to bring someone in.

As mentioned previously in this thread, Im not adverse to O'Shea leaving. Every player is moved on sooner or later. Im merely questioning the wisdom of leaving ourselves short. I'd rather not be going into CL games again with midfielders playing in defence
 
We have 3 specialised full backs with both Brown and O'Shea in the squad.
 
dont be pedantic. Brown and O'Shea have played as fullbacks for years and they were both coming through when there was a lot more reliable cover in the squad
 
golden_blunder said:
dont be pedantic. Brown and O'Shea have played as fullbacks for years and they were both coming through when there was a lot more reliable cover in the squad
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The fact remains, they are both natural centre backs filling in. It can be done, and there is no reason why some of our other centre backs can't do likewise.

It sounds like you want a replacement for Neville.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
The fact remains, they are both natural centre backs filling in. It can be done, and there is no reason why some of our other centre backs can't do likewise.

It sounds like you want a replacement for Neville.
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not necessarily, one of the twins may step up to the plate. The problem is that they are so damn injury proned. I'd be happier if we brought in another fullback to compete

or, as i suggested earlier in this thread, keep O'Shea for one more season then evaluate
 
O'Shea will be out of contract next year so there will be nothing to revaluate, he will just leave for nothing.
 
davisjw said:
If we lose O'Shea and Gibson, is this the first time in memory that we won't have a proper Irishman in or around our starting lineup?
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On top of my head - so I might be forgetting something here.....but I am thinking late 80's here. We had a bunch of irish-players in the mid-80's (O'Brien, Stapleton, McGrath and Moran)...but as I recall - all of them were sold in the space of 2 years....

So if I am not completely wrong (and if we only count Ireland and not Northern Ireland - I would say the season 1989-1990.

McGrath was sold in 89 and Irwin bought in 90 - but did we have an irish player in that particular season ? I don't think so!
 
golden_blunder said:
we're going around in circles here

we have 3 recognised fullbacks IF as expected O'Shea and Brown both leave

Out of those 3, 2 of them have proven to be quite injury prone in their young careers

The others you speak off are not specialised full-backs. The squad will be short and unbalanced. There is a rule of thumb that says you should have 2 players for every position. So, unless Fergie is going to promote someone from the reserves, I believe we need to bring someone in.

As mentioned previously in this thread, Im not adverse to O'Shea leaving. Every player is moved on sooner or later. Im merely questioning the wisdom of leaving ourselves short. I'd rather not be going into CL games again with midfielders playing in defence
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I'll be sad to see O'shea and Brown leave however as you mentioned it is inevitable and I suppose fergie feels it is their time.

As far as our coverage for that position Fergie must feel confident in Fabio and Rafael. Fabio has shown to be able to last a number of matches and rafael had a good run before the concussion iirc. Fergie also has no problem playing someone like Smalling, Evans, Fletcher or Valencia as a stop gap. In that regard I dont think we will bring someone in.

Perhaps with the 25 man rule coming in fergie is having to gamble on the twins a bit more than he would like. I still believe that the twins will be able to survive the rigors of a season although there is not much proof of that beyond my optimism
 
He'll be particularly useful for Sunderland in terms of experience and versatility. The majority of Sunderland players have only seen the CL on TV and Jonno has ample experience on that regard. However he'll have a very limited impact on our success. What we're going to miss about him is his versatility certainly not his talent.
 
devilish said:
He'll be particularly useful for Sunderland in terms of experience and versatility. The majority of Sunderland players have only seen the CL on TV and Jonno has ample experience on that regard. However he'll have a very limited impact on our success. What we're going to miss about him is his versatility certainly not his talent.
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Cop on. He has more talent in his little toe than 80% of the players in the Premier League. How people here think he forged such a career at Manchester United for a decade based on nothing other than the fact that he was a home grown player. Fergie is ruthless enough - if he wasn't good enough he'd've left a long time ago.
 
The Physio said:
Cop on. He has more talent in his little toe than 80% of the players in the Premier League. How people here think he forged such a career at Manchester United for a decade based on nothing other than the fact that he was a home grown player. Fergie is ruthless enough - if he wasn't good enough he'd've left a long time ago.
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80 per cent of EPL players wouldn't even be considered to play with United. What kept him at United is his versatility and his attitude not his talent.
 
The Physio said:
Cop on. He has more talent in his little toe than 80% of the players in the Premier League. How people here think he forged such a career at Manchester United for a decade based on nothing other than the fact that he was a home grown player. Fergie is ruthless enough - if he wasn't good enough he'd've left a long time ago.
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Not sure about 80%, but you are correct in people somehow thinking O'Shea was just some average player.

Not his fault his time at the club, we have had some outstanding defenders(World Class) so that he hasn't been able to establish a permanent place in the starting lineup, but you don't play close to 400 matches for United over a decade if you aren't a talented footballer.
 
What's this silly talk about O'Shea leaving? There has been no news other than Sunderland apparently bidding for these 3 over a month ago, and nothing has materialised
 
Neutral said:
Not sure about 80%, but you are correct in people somehow thinking O'Shea was just some average player.

Not his fault his time at the club, we have had some outstanding defenders(World Class) so that he hasn't been able to establish a permanent place in the starting lineup, but you don't play close to 400 matches for United over a decade if you aren't a talented footballer.
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Its common to see world class defenders at a club like Manchester United
 
SATA said:
What's this silly talk about O'Shea leaving? There has been no news other than Sunderland apparently bidding for these 3 over a month ago, and nothing has materialised
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surely if we want to keep him, either united or o'shea should come out by now and say he is staying, but it is not the case, he is leaving lets face it.
 
He might be thinking of Valencia to fullback, like in the CL final.
Wouldn't be entirely surprised. Like Lee Sharpe when Giggs came on, but Sharpey didnt want to play ball and moved to Leeds.
 
Vermijl and McGinty are highly rated and maybe wont be too long before one of them is drafted into the first team as back up. Vermijl still a bit young though maybe. Fergie knows what he is doing!
 
Who wants to buy him anyway, I thought the caf had decided that he was shit and SAF was a deluded fool who only plays him because he's his lovechild, conceived on a stag do in Waterford.
 
PJ said:
Who wants to buy him anyway, I thought the caf had decided that he was shit and SAF was a deluded fool who only plays him because he's his lovechild, conceived on a stag do in Waterford.
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That attitude hasn't been common on here for nearly 5 years.
 
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