Sunderland bid £12m for O'Shea, Gibson & Brown

datura said:
Not who will be ready next season. Blackett looks a good prospect at left back though.

Tunnicliffe is a pretty handy right back if required.
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Isn't Tunnicliffe a cm? What about Massacci and Vermij?
 
R_Nick said:
15, 20 and 32 appearances last season suggests they are good enough to play for Manchester United regularly.
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playing less than half the games isn't regularly. But O'Shea at least is a solid backup due to his versatility and the one I'd keep.
 
datura said:
He is but has played right back and looked good there. Massacci has rarely played and was out of favour with Michael Keane ahead of him, been unlucky with injuries though. Vermijl good going forward, but not convinced about him defensively and quite lightweight.
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Thanks mate I don't follow the youths that much so any news from your part was very interesting for me.
 
Blair said:
Kelvin is right, the twins are about as injury prone as they come. I'd like to see stats on how many games where they actually completed the ful 90mins.

If they could sort that issue out then they'll both become top players. I do really like them.
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Last season?

Almost all of them.

Their reputation for recurrent injuries and failure to last a game is based on the season(s) before that. They've obviously started to get used to the physicality of PL football.
 
Snow said:
As long as he was needed. His substitution was tactical because we were losing.
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He was taken off because he picked up a knock when he made that last gasp clearance off the line.

BBC Live text said:
2107
Another minute, another Barcelona attack, another chance - Lionel Messi's flick from Dani Alves' cut-back stopped on the line by Fabio.
....
2110
Nani on for Fabio for Man Utd.
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Pogue Mahone said:
Last season?

Almost all of them.

Their reputation for recurrent injuries and failure to last a game is based on the season(s) before that. They've obviously started to get used to the physicality of PL football.
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Here's the stats.

Rafael

4
90
90
63
48
90
90
90
90
90
73
79
90
75
45

Fabio

20
45
10
45
90
15
90
90
87
61

These stats are all the PL games they played in last season. They're still extremely injury prone. Every game I see them start I wonder at what point they'll go off injured.
 
Dion said:
He was taken off because he picked up a knock when he made that last gasp clearance off the line.
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So you replace him with Nani and put an attacking right winger at right back because he played there once before?
No, it was tactical. He got the knock before the sub. Wasn't subbed directly after. He looked fine to me.
 
Blair said:
Here's the stats.

Rafael

4
90
90
63
48
90
90
90
90
90
73
79
90
75
45

Fabio

20
45
10
45
90
15
90
90
87
61

These stats are all the PL games they played in last season. They're still extremely injury prone. Every game I see them start I wonder at what point they'll go off injured.
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You might want to add to this how many games he started out of those minutes.

Last 4 games there Fabio started. Then comes 15, 90 and 45. He came on as a substitute for those 15 and 45 minutes. So that's 7 games where he never came off injured. One substitute was tactital, one was the 87th minuted.

Fabio was meant to be backup for Evra. But then Rafael got injured and O'Shea replace him. When O'Shea then got injured Fabio stepped in. SAF hadn't thought much about using him there but when he did he went on to play the majority of the minutes whilst Evra stayed at left back the whole time.
Evra however with all those minutes he's gotten is a bigger worry IMO. I have no worries for the RB spot.
 
Blair said:
Rafaels were all starts. Fabio's were all starts except 1.

That's slightly worrying.
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I don't think you ever find anything not worrying.

For those of us less constantly mired in negativity, those stats are actually quite encouraging. First of all, they're not all starts. Second, there's a good proportion of games started which they finished. Which is a big step in the right direction, when compared to the previous couple of seasons, where Fabio hardly ever finished a game.
 
Snow said:
So you replace him with Nani and put an attacking right winger at right back because he played there once before?
No, it was tactical. He got the knock before the sub. Wasn't subbed directly after. He looked fine to me.
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He got the knock then hobbled around for a bit trying to run it off, he'd have lasted about a minute if we could have gotten the ball out of play quicker.

Out of these when 2-1 down, what would you have done?

Subs: Kuszczak, Owen, Anderson, Smalling, Nani, Scholes, Fletcher.

When chasing the game? After Valencia did well against Chelsea. It was a forced substitution due to injury and because we where a goal down and he didn't have a genuine fullback on the bench he took the most attacking option.
 
Dion said:
He got the knock then hobbled around for a bit trying to run it off, he'd have lasted about a minute if we could have gotten the ball out of play quicker.

Out of these when 2-1 down, what would you have done?

Subs: Kuszczak, Owen, Anderson, Smalling, Nani, Scholes, Fletcher.

When chasing the game? After Valencia did well against Chelsea. It was a forced substitution due to injury and because we where a goal down and he didn't have a genuine fullback on the bench he took the most attacking option.
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The logical choice would be to put Fletcher on. But SAF's logic that game was beyond ours. He had Anderson, Scholes and Fletcher all on the bench and chose Owen as the forward. Out of those he used one player. Didn't make much sense tbh in anything he did after the game started.
 
Snow said:
The logical choice would be to put Fletcher on. But SAF's logic that game was beyond ours. He had Anderson, Scholes and Fletcher all on the bench and chose Owen as the forward. Out of those he used one player. Didn't make much sense tbh in anything he did after the game started.
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The logical choice if we were level, anyway it's totally irrelevant as to whether it was a forced change or not, which it was.
 
devilish said:
Isn't Tunnicliffe a cm? What about Massacci and Vermij?
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Tunnicliffe is central midfielder and a great prospect who plays with aggression and drive. Will be fans favourite.As for Massacci and Vermij neither good enough IMHO. I think defensively tom thorpe and michael keane have a chance, and possibly Gill although not as good as the keane or thorpe.

Agreed re; blackett- he is a good prospect too.
 
yamo123x said:
Tunnicliffe is central midfielder and a great prospect who plays with aggression and drive. Will be fans favourite.As for Massacci and Vermij neither good enough IMHO. I think defensively tom thorpe and michael keane have a chance, and possibly Gill although not as good as the keane or thorpe.

Agreed re; blackett- he is a good prospect too.
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Thanks

Do you think that Thorpe and Keane can move to first team next season (as cover for the Da Silva twins)?
 
Can someone point me in the right direction - why would O'Shea even want to leave, Sunderland won't pay him more and surely we're not going to just ask him to leave to make money, it will be peanuts anyway?
 
Wasn't O'Shea put on 90k a week or something insane recently? Got to be one of the top earners at United and I can't imagine anyone at Sunderland earning anywhere near that.
 
devilish said:
Thanks

Do you think that Thorpe and Keane can move to first team next season (as cover for the Da Silva twins)?
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I don't think so. Thorpe is a natural centre back, not sure about playing him as a full back. Michael Keane only gradually became a regular last season, improved a lot but definitely not ready for the first team yet.

Talking about the left back position, Gill might be an option. Not ideal I know (lack of pace), but still.
 
I'd heard Wes was going to stay for another season because of his brother coming through, not sure if that's true or not
 
westlife4ever said:
I don't think so. Thorpe is a natural centre back, not sure about playing him as a full back. Michael Keane only gradually became a regular last season, improved a lot but definitely not ready for the first team yet.

Talking about the left back position, Gill might be an option. Not ideal I know (lack of pace), but still.
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I think Thorpe could play full back, at least initially, as he is very comfortable on the ball and gets forward well in addition to being a good defender.
 
if we were to sell the players seperately we'd get more than 12 million i reckon - someone like QPR/Wolves/Norwich/etc might pay 7 million or so for Gibson
 
Sarni said:
Can someone point me in the right direction - why would O'Shea even want to leave, Sunderland won't pay him more and surely we're not going to just ask him to leave to make money, it will be peanuts anyway?
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Players rely on the support of the manager if they are to get playing time. Once he has accepted a bid that gives a rather blunt indication that he anticipates using other players in preference. So if the player turns down the move, he should expect to find himself sat in the stands watching the game more often than not; in which case, he will probably want to leave.
 
kundalini said:
Players rely on the support of the manager if they are to get playing time. Once he has accepted a bid that gives a rather blunt indication that he anticipates using other players in preference. So if the player turns down the move, he should expect to find himself sat in the stands watching the game more often than not; in which case, he will probably want to leave.
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Or he could act like any competitive player at a big club; he could reject the move, buckle down and make the manager want to start him in every game. A manager accepting a bid doesn't mean the player is shit, just might make business sense, but if a player is undroppable then he won't go anywhere regardless of the little profit involved.
 
beardsleybob said:
Or he could act like any competitive player at a big club; he could reject the move, buckle down and make the manager want to start him in every game. A manager accepting a bid doesn't mean the player is shit, just might make business sense, but if a player is undroppable then he won't go anywhere regardless of the little profit involved.
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C'mon, be sensible. He's been at this club all his life. For how many seasons has he held down one position?

Last two seasons he played much less than before. He played more when he was 21. And he hardly was a wonderkid. He's also 30. He'd be lucky to get 20 league games if he stays but if he goes he'll be guaranteed to start.

He's already won everything there is to win. What is going to make him stay? I mean look at Phil Neville. He could be that with Sunderland under a good manager that understands the defenders aspect of the game very well.

I'd go if I were him.
 
datura said:
I think Thorpe could play full back, at least initially, as he is very comfortable on the ball and gets forward well in addition to being a good defender.
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Fair enough. His quality and calmness on the ball really stands out, a very stylish defender. I just haven't seen him playing full back that much. Having said that, starting off as a full back might be easier for him to break into first team.
 
Gibson at 5m is a steal. Should be a bit more.
But it cant be compared to the Henderson deal.

Apart from him being younger/English/having a long contract, he was at a club that were happy to keep him and a bigger club had to pay over the odds to get him.
Gibson would be leaving because he would be surplus/replaceable and the selling club wouldnt be at a strong position to negotiate.

Gibson with regular football will improve without question. Dont think sunderland will miss Henderson at all.. and will make a tidy profit too
 
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