Sunderland bid £12m for O'Shea, Gibson & Brown

Lance Uppercut said:
Then I honestly can't understand why you think losing O'Shea is going to be such a blow.
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I didn't say it was such a blow.

However, it weakens the squad and it would weaken it for no reason. We have the space, he can play in plenty of positions, and he never lets us down. Plus with over 300 games under his belt, the bit of experience always helps.
 
Talking Vulture said:
At least back it up before dismissing it as rubbish.

I honestly don't think there's a place in the team for him anymore. The twins, Jones, Smalling are above him (imo). I think we're entering an exciting time at United where pace is the key and O'Shea is lacking.
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It really didn't need backing up as it was slf explanatory but here goes.

We need to get rid of O'Shea to get to the next level? What level is that exactly? Whilst O'Shea has been at the club he has won:

5 X Premier League Titles
3 X League Cups
1 X Champions League
1 X World Club Cup
1 X FA Cup

There is no other level.

I'd happily take the point that we shouldn't be relying on a player of O'Shea's quality and he should be back up and back up alone but to say we must get rid to achieve the next level is, as I said, utter rubbish.

EDIT: Might I also point out he's been involved in sides that have reached the Champions League final THREE times.
 
Name Changed said:
I didn't say it was such a blow.

However, it weakens the squad and it would weaken it for no reason. We have the space, he can play in plenty of positions, and he never lets us down. Plus with over 300 games under his belt, the bit of experience always helps.
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Do you trust our manager?
 
cw1984 said:
It really didn't need backing up as it was slf explanatory but here goes.

We need to get rid of O'Shea to get to the next level? What level is that exactly? Whilst O'Shea has been at the club he has won:

5 X Premier League Titles
3 X League Cups
1 X Champions League
1 X World Club Cup
1 X FA Cup

There is no other level.

I'd happily take the point that we shouldn't be relying on a player of O'Shea's quality and he should be back up and back up alone but to say we must get rid to achieve the next level is, as I said, utter rubbish.
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Good post.
 
Name Changed said:
You think John O'Shea isn't picked for important games? He isn't picked for every one, but when fit he plays his fair share of big games.
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Not in comparison to Park. Surely you aren't going to argue with that.
 
Name Changed said:
Yes. And it's the manager who plays John O'Shea time and time again. So he must have something to offer or else he'd never be near the team.
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So obviously, if our manager agrees to sell him then he is certain that we no longer require his services, correct?
 
Name Changed said:
Of course Park plays more. He is vital in those games. But John O'Shea still plays. Why does Ferguson play him when he does not have to?
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Read the post I responded to. "He offers the same in his position that Park does in his."

Bullfeckingshit.
 
Why is Park being pigeon-holed as a "squad player"? He starts all the big games and when fit, features as much as any other player. To call him a mere squad player does him a disservice if you ask me, SAF's selections indicate him being more of a key player than a back-up option.

As for the Sunderland offer, I'd let them have Brown, his salary is too high for a 5th choice CB and 4th choice RB. I'd accept the offer for Gibson but leave it up to him, if he decided to stay and be part of the squad, I wouldn't mind that likewise if he felt it was time to move on and play some regular football. O'Shea should be retained IMO, we've lost a core of experienced player's already this summer, so letting a stalwart and versatile player like O'Shea leave would be quite pointless IMO and would do nothing positive for the club except rake in a few quid which I think his playing capabilities, professionalism, and long time service outstrip easily.
 
I think Fergie is going about this the right way if reports are true. Replacing decent squad players who will never be brilliant with younger squad players who have the potential to become brilliant. If this potential is realised they will be putting our first XI under pressure, rather than just having people who can "do a job". This will benefit the likes of Vidic/Ferdinand (they won't be able to get complacent) as well as benefitting the team in the long run.
 
you're also forgetting the fact that if Oshea is on the bench, you can effectively have more attacking players on the bench with him who can affect the game, because of Oshea's versatility.
 
Name Changed said:
Not really. He has sold plenty of other players before who'd still have played if they'd stayed at the club.
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The point is, they didn't stay at the club. Because they were no longer required. Stop being obtuse.
 
Name Changed said:
Eh, I just said Park is vital.
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Again, read the post I was responding to.

Originally Posted by The Black Pearl
Why not? Both squad players that are well known for coming on & doing the job for us along with scoring the odd goal for us here & there, some of which in the past were very important goals. Sheasy is a very solid experinced defender & Park is a grafter that will attack & run all day. Both players offer more or less the same in their respective positions imo.
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O'Shea was a "great" squad player especially when the depth of the squad was not great. But is he now? His versatility may not be as great an asset as before because squad depth is improving. He may find it difficult to be a second choice in any positions next year.
 
O'Shea is basically a full back for us nowadays. There is better cover in the other positions. And perhaps Jones/Smalling/Evans are able to do the same kind of job at full back as O'Shea. O'Shea is more similar to them than he is like the twins and Evra.

The same goes for Brown.

Their roles along the back line will be taken over by the 3 young centre backs.
 
cw1984 said:
It really didn't need backing up as it was slf explanatory but here goes.

We need to get rid of O'Shea to get to the next level? What level is that exactly? Whilst O'Shea has been at the club he has won:

5 X Premier League Titles
3 X League Cups
1 X Champions League
1 X World Club Cup
1 X FA Cup

There is no other level.

I'd happily take the point that we shouldn't be relying on a player of O'Shea's quality and he should be back up and back up alone but to say we must get rid to achieve the next level is, as I said, utter rubbish.

EDIT: Might I also point out he's been involved in sides that have reached the Champions League final THREE times.
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So to compete with Barcelona should our paths cross, O'Shea is the secret weapon?

I've not disagreed that he was a good/decent squad player but he's close to hitting 30 now, offers nothing other than good cover & reliabilty.

No one has questioned his committment, his medal haul etc - but pointing all that is is quite ridiculous in itself. It's not as if he's single handedly won all those medals!

My point is - he is surplus to requirements because it looks like we're heading in a different direction. We've got pace all over the park, and I'm dreaming of a 94-esque set up where we score goals on the break with devasting effect. Having O'Shea in the sides limits the right or left as he just isn't skillful enough to launch a quick break.

He's been an admiral squad member for 9 years and his loyalty is to be applauded. His commitment is there and he ticks all the boxes as an important 'squad' memeber - but SAF is thinking long term and I reckon O'Shea isn't in any of his long term plans because of the points I've already made in this thread.

Good luck to him wherever he ends up but feck me, we aren't going to miss him like some of you feckers think we are :lol:
 
tbtt said:
O'Shea was a "great" squad player especially when the depth of the squad was not great. But is he now? His versatility may not be as great an asset as before because squad depth is improving. He may find it difficult to be a second choice in any positions next year.
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Except our depth isn't so great now in the full back positions. I don't really see Smalling and Evans as full backs even if they can perform such duty in an emergency. Apart from Evra, with Fabio and Rafael picking up injuries regularly, there aren't so many options.
 
Talking Vulture said:
So to compete with Barcelona should our paths cross, O'Shea is the secret weapon?
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Where did I say that? I didn't even imply that so i'm not quite sure why you're attempting some kind of lame point scoring exercise here.

Talking Vulture said:
I've not disagreed that he was a good/decent squad player but he's close to hitting 30 now, offers nothing other than good cover & reliabilty.
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So why do we need to get rid of him? It makes no sense. He offers good cover as you have said.

Talking Vulture said:
No one has questioned his committment, his medal haul etc - but pointing all that is is quite ridiculous in itself. It's not as if he's single handedly won all those medals!
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How is it ridiculous? He might not be the first name on the team sheet but he usually racks up 30+ games a season so it's not like he's being given these medals for contributing next to nothing.

Talking Vulture said:
My point is - he is surplus to requirements because it looks like we're heading in a different direction. We've got pace all over the park, and I'm dreaming of a 94-esque set up where we score goals on the break with devasting effect. Having O'Shea in the sides limits the right or left as he just isn't skillful enough to launch a quick break.
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We're heading in a different direction because we've signed Phil Jones? How so? Sounds more like you want us to head in a different direction but that's not necessarily what's happening.

Talking Vulture said:
Good luck to him wherever he ends up but feck me, we aren't going to miss him like some of you feckers think we are :lol:
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We'll survive. It won't impact on us hugely obviously as we're quite well stocked at the back and Jones can play in Midfield. What I disagreed with was you saying we needed to get rid of him to get to the next level which just isn't true. If he was in the Barcelona squad would they suddenly move down a level? Of course not.
 
We'll agree to disagree on this one.

I don't think we need him and I'm confident we won't miss him.

You think we need him and it's fecking obvious you will miss him :lol:
 
Talking Vulture said:
So to compete with Barcelona should our paths cross, O'Shea is the secret weapon?:
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If you're talking about competing with Barcelona, then you'd be better off improving our midfield, not kicking out a player who has featured in the best defense in Europe.

Talking Vulture said:
I've not disagreed that he was a good/decent squad player but he's close to hitting 30 now, offers nothing other than good cover & reliabilty.
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He has consistently given us solid, 7/10 performances whenever he has played at any position along the defense. He's a defender first and foremost, and he does that very well. Better that than a defender who bombs forward all the time leaving us naked at the back (cough, Evra, cough)

Talking Vulture said:
No one has questioned his committment, his medal haul etc - but pointing all that is is quite ridiculous in itself. It's not as if he's single handedly won all those medals!:
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No, the point he was making was that people are talking as if O'Shea leaving will propel us to higher levels. We're the champions of England! And if you think replacing O'Shea with Phil fecking Jones (all due respect) will give us the edge over the likes of Real and Barcelona, you're having a laugh

Talking Vulture said:
My point is - he is surplus to requirements because it looks like we're heading in a different direction. We've got pace all over the park, and I'm dreaming of a 94-esque set up where we score goals on the break with devasting effect. Having O'Shea in the sides limits the right or left as he just isn't skillful enough to launch a quick break. :
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Those times are past. 94-esque set-up? Like the game where we got thrashed 4-0 by Barcelona? O'Shea in the team has never prevented us from playing fast on the break, otherwise he and Berbatov wouldn't be at United. A simple one-two pass is just as effective as Rafa bombing behind Valencia.

Talking Vulture said:
He's been an admiral squad member for 9 years and his loyalty is to be applauded. His commitment is there and he ticks all the boxes as an important 'squad' memeber - but SAF is thinking long term and I reckon O'Shea isn't in any of his long term plans because of the points I've already made in this thread.:
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If SAF decides O'shea needs to go, then fair enough. But saying he needs to move on (not saying that's what you're saying, but it's an underlying current in this thread) so that we can move to higher levels, or give Jones and the twins more chances, is nonsense. Rafa took his first team spot with both hands, nothing will be handed to anyone.

Talking Vulture said:
Good luck to him wherever he ends up but feck me, we aren't going to miss him like some of you feckers think we are :lol:
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I don't see anyone implying as such. Sorry for going all Chief on you.
 
Talking Vulture said:
We'll agree to disagree on this one.

I don't think we need him and I'm confident we won't miss him.

You think we need him and it's fecking obvious you will miss him :lol:
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Once again, I have never said we need him. I will miss him to a degree. He's been at the club all of his career.
 
You're just being silly now. I don't know why I even bothered to have a debate with you. I'll know for next time at least.
 
A player that is consistent and never complains is always an asset to the club.

But if he does indeed leave it would not be a surprise because his versatility is not as important as it has been in the past.

We have plenty of midfielders and center backs.

He has been mainly used as solid cover for both full back positions. But the da silvas are coming through and fabio especially is capable of playing on both flanks. Smalling and Jones can both cover at full back (especially when we need the taller defender for teams like Blackburn etc). Even Evans has been used at left back.

if he leaves we still have 8 defenders. As i said he is an asset but i don't think he will be missed
 
cw1984 said:
You're just being silly now. I don't know why I even bothered to have a debate with you. I'll know for next time at least.
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Oh feck off you precious cnut. Because someone doesn't agree with what you say, there's no point in trying to 'debate' it.

Let me spell it out - O'Shea will not be missed by anoyne once the season starts. No one will say "fecking hell, O'Shea isn't starting today" or if we're 1 or 2 down "we could do with O'Shea on now to pull us out of the shit"

I've said - decent squad player, no more than a 6/10 player. Not needed anymore.
 
Talking Vulture said:
Oh feck off you precious cnut. Because someone doesn't agree with what you say, there's no point in trying to 'debate' it.
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:lol: Are you pretending to be stupid or something? I responded to your point with my side of the argument. You then came back with a really childish "it's fecking obvious you will miss him :lol:" and "Solid 7/10 performances - megalolz :lol:" That's hardly coutering my point is it? More of a childish 1 liner with some kind of intent to poke fun at me.

Talking Vulture said:
Let me spell it out - O'Shea will not be missed by anoyne once the season starts. No one will say "fecking hell, O'Shea isn't starting today" or if we're 1 or 2 down "we could do with O'Shea on now to pull us out of the shit"

I've said - decent squad player, no more than a 6/10 player. Not needed anymore.
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Again, you seem to be deliberately missing my entire point or you're actually that stupid. You said we "needed" to get rid of O'Shea if we wanted to "go to the next level". That comment is bull shit for all the reasons I posted before that you also chose to ignore.
 
Name Changed said:
Of course Park plays more. He is vital in those games. But John O'Shea still plays. Why does Ferguson play him when he does not have to?
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Because he wasnt sure if the Next Generation were ready yet, but they are now so O'Shea is surplus to requirements.
 
cw1984 said:
:lol: Are you pretending to be stupid or something? I responded to your point with my side of the argument. You then came back with a really childish "it's fecking obvious you will miss him :lol:" and "Solid 7/10 performances - megalolz :lol:" That's hardly coutering my point is it? More of a childish 1 liner with some kind of intent to poke fun at me.



Again, you seem to be deliberately missing my entire point or you're actually that stupid. You said we "needed" to get rid of O'Shea if we wanted to "go to the next level". That comment is bull shit for all the reasons I posted before that you also chose to ignore.
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It's obvious we need to improve if we want to compete for Europe's top prize - can't you see that? Losing O'Shea and bringing in young, talented players with time on their side will help us do that. This applies to people like Brown & Gibson - players that won't be missed.

I made my points on what I thought and why I thought them - if you can't be arsed reading it, I couldn't give a feck. And you have the nerve to call me stupid - ha!
 
Talking Vulture said:
It's obvious we need to improve if we want to compete for Europe's top prize - can't you see that? Losing O'Shea and bringing in young, talented players with time on their side will help us do that. This applies to people like Brown & Gibson - players that won't be missed.

I made my points on what I thought and why I thought them - if you can't be arsed reading it, I couldn't give a feck. And you have the nerve to call me stupid - ha!
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Stupid was actually polite given your responses.

If Barcelona (for whatever miracle reason) signed O'Shea does that mean they would no longer be capable of competing for Europe's top prize?

I've already stated that I agree he shouldn't be a first team player for us and should only be back up. How is he harming the clubs chances by being on the bench.

You're point doesn't make sense and you've said nothing that comes close to justifying it.
 
with the greatest respect Sharky, those players you named would probably be first teamer's anywhere else but Barca. Its a completely unique situation that they find themselves in there with that squad so i wouldn't go chucking those around as examples

IF O'Shea goes, that means we've lost Neville, Brown, O'Shea and brought in 1 lad, high potential but only 1 season of first team football, fighting for relegation. Now, you may say "but Brown and Neville didn't play" but thats not the point, they were there to be picked if the others needed a rest or if we picked up an injury crisis. They were an option. A squad game is all about options.

I hate to keep banging on about it, but O'Sheas experience is also invaluable, especially in a season where we've now confirmed departures of VDS, Neville, Hargreaves & Scholes, with potentially Brown to go out too. You need the older heads around just to calm the younger lads down when they start to progress in competitions.

Onto my last point, the twins are still growing and picking up a lot of injuries. Evra was pants last year and Evans was not great either. It would be prudent to keep O'Shea for at least one more season whilst everyone settles in.

Especially in a season where we will be bedding in a new GK!
 
golden_blunder said:
with the greatest respect Sharky, those players you named would probably be first teamer's anywhere else but Barca. Its a completely unique situation that they find themselves in there with that squad so i wouldn't go chucking those around as examples

IF O'Shea goes, that means we've lost Neville, Brown, O'Shea and brought in 1 lad, high potential but only 1 season of first team football, fighting for relegation. Now, you may say "but Brown and Neville didn't play" but thats not the point, they were there to be picked if the others needed a rest or if we picked up an injury crisis. They were an option. A squad game is all about options.

I hate to keep banging on about it, but O'Sheas experience is also invaluable, especially in a season where we've now confirmed departures of VDS, Neville, Hargreaves & Scholes, with potentially Brown to go out too. You need the older heads around just to calm the younger lads down when they start to progress in competitions.

Onto my last point, the twins are still growing and picking up a lot of injuries. Evra was pants last year and Evans was not great either. It would be prudent to keep O'Shea for at least one more season whilst everyone settles in.

Especially in a season where we will be bedding in a new GK!
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Don't you understand you're missing the point Geebs? We can't progress to the next level if we keep him. He must go.
 
Oshea, one of my all time faves.


I still can't believe how up in arms people were when he signed an 80 k contract after all of the loyalty and good service he's given us.

I would prefer him to retire at this great club.
 
cw1984 said:
Stupid was actually polite given your responses.

If Barcelona (for whatever miracle reason) signed O'Shea does that mean they would no longer be capable of competing for Europe's top prize?

I've already stated that I agree he shouldn't be a first team player for us and should only be back up. How is he harming the clubs chances by being on the bench.

You're point doesn't make sense and you've said nothing that comes close to justifying it.
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feck me - can't you see we're losing some of the older players/getting rid of the dead wood? O'Shea is on what, 70k per week? Getting rid of him makes financial sense as well as giving a younger player the experience e needs, rather than being held back in the reserves.

It's Fergie's long term plan to get the youth in NOW so when he fecks off, these players will be established and the next manager can take over, safe in the knowledge that's he's inherited a cracking, young squad that are used to playing with each other and not having to worry about a lumber 33 year old O'Shea.

Is that simple enough for you? feck me, some people are fecking morons but you've taken it to another level. Well done.
 
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