Well we know we’re probably getting the 25m for sancho. It’s the Rashford and Antony sales that will be crucial. Also the Europa league is very vital this season. We ain’t getting anywhere near the top 7 so this is a must win competition. With CL next season that will increase our budget quite a bit.Andy Mitten said recently that he'd been told it'd be a very tight summer, with limited cash assets and PSR issues. Especially without Europe.
I don't see things changing any time soon. I'd say it's quite likely we're going to be outspent by the majority of teams above us.
I know it's Jamie, but if that is the case and we don't buy big in the Summer, we are done, Ruben may walk also.
We've been buying big every summer and it hasn't got us anywhere!
24/25 = £200m spent, £120m net.
23/24 = £170m spent, £120m net.
22/23 = £200m spent, £182m net
21/22 = £120m spent, £91m net
20/21 =£70m spent, £53m net
19/20 = £200m spent, £130m net
18/19 = £68m spent, £43m net
17/18 = £165m spent, £125m net.
16/17 = £154m spent, £114m net
15/16 =£130m spent, £45m net
That's close to £1.5 Billion spent,with over a billion net on transfer fees alone in ten years!
Buying big isn't the answer! We've been buying big for a decade and barely have anything to show for it. We need to start spending far more carefully.
The issue with this, is that the amount of money spent isn't the issue. You also have to look at the context, what was the situation in 18/19 and 20/21 and why was the spending in those summers drastically down from the other years?
You need to spend to win in the PL, you can pull up many statistics that show that, however simply aimlessly spending and not spending on quality isn't going to help. Also stopping the spending after you have made progress is also a huge mistake.
The issue has always been clear: at United, they don't spend on the right players, and the vast amount of spending in the past decade has occurred after our worst season and not capitalizing on a good season and kicking on. Anytime we finished a season well/in a good position, our spending usually went down (indicates the spending was nothing to do with trying to win).
But you take a hit in the amortisation, so you wont have 25M in pure profits for PSR + we might have to pay off some of that transfer fee.Well we know we’re probably getting the 25m for sancho. It’s the Rashford and Antony sales that will be crucial. Also the Europa league is very vital this season. We ain’t getting anywhere near the top 7 so this is a must win competition. With CL next season that will increase our budget quite a bit.
Sancho's contract runs until 2026 so there will be no incremental amortization hit on next year's accounts if he's sold this summer.But you take a hit in the amortisation, so you wont have 25M in pure profits for PSR + we might have to pay off some of that transfer fee.
Wait? The main thing you took from that was there was two years where the spending was down!!
You need to spend to win in the PL
Look at the team that are top and likely to win it this year. They have spent considerably less than we have over the last ten years!
£100m net on transfers a season isn't sustainable or sensible for any club to spend!
A lot of fans need to start to realise that we cannot just throw money at this problem! We have to (and clearly are based on the January window) start buying players at sensible prices with sensible contracts.
There's no quick fix to sort this squad out. It's probably going to take years to make us competitive again.
Andy Mitten said recently that he'd been told it'd be a very tight summer, with limited cash assets and PSR issues. Especially without Europe.
I don't see things changing any time soon. I'd say it's quite likely we're going to be outspent by the majority of teams above us.
Yep, I can see the Garnacho rumors popping up again in the summer, and if a big enough offer comes in, we'll be tempted again. Especially if we're unable to shift the rest for any meaningful sums.Well we know we’re probably getting the 25m for sancho. It’s the Rashford and Antony sales that will be crucial. Also the Europa league is very vital this season. We ain’t getting anywhere near the top 7 so this is a must win competition. With CL next season that will increase our budget quite a bit.
Agree, let me clarify what I meant, we need to buy for the crucial positions, and we can't have another January style window, where Ruben looks to be left high and dry.We've been buying big every summer and it hasn't got us anywhere!
24/25 = £200m spent, £120m net.
23/24 = £170m spent, £120m net.
22/23 = £200m spent, £182m net
21/22 = £120m spent, £91m net
20/21 =£70m spent, £53m net
19/20 = £200m spent, £130m net
18/19 = £68m spent, £43m net
17/18 = £165m spent, £125m net.
16/17 = £154m spent, £114m net
15/16 =£130m spent, £45m net
That's close to £1.5 Billion spent,with over a billion net on transfer fees alone in ten years!
Buying big isn't the answer! We've been buying big for a decade and barely have anything to show for it. We need to start spending far more carefully.
Even worse, you lose (even more) appeal for the players that you want to convince to join.If we miss out on CL we lose £10m on the Adidas sponsorship next season, not to mention revenue losses from missing out on TV money, gate receipts, etc.
That too, which makes it harder to recruit the right type of players at a reasonable price. Easy to end up in a doom loop where you're overpaying for mercenaries.Even worse, you lose (even more) appeal for the players that you want to convince to join.
I've been saying this recently that fans talking about patience with INEOS are in for a shock when United are pushed further behind by very competitive owners in the league.
INEOS haven't the capital to rectify the club's debt, their changes certainly help the issues surmountable to the club's annual losses but they don't have the resources to dig United out of the hole the Glazers throw the club in.
It's INEOS out as far as I'm concerned, get more lucrative owners in who will take the debt on the chin and supercede the infrastructure development around the stadium.
Given that Ineos were the only party seriously interested in buying the club at the price the Glazers were asking, they would probably have been better off walking away and taking a calculated gamble that the Glazers would have had to lower the price a year or so down the line. It was widely reported that most of the family wanted out completely and it would surely have come to the point (probably about now, or sometime soon after) that the other two would have been forced to sell, because they were never going to put any of their own money in to keep the club going.Not strictly true.
INEOS do have the capital to rectify the clubs debt, heck SIr Jim has enough personally. The issue is that they are minority owners so they have zero motivation to pay off the debts accrued by the Glazers nor would they strictly be allowed to without that being converted into equity which the Glazers would have to be willing to do.
The Glazers may wake up to the fact that the windfall they are holding on for is never coming and approach INEOS for a full buy out before 27. In that scenario I imagine one of the first orders of business would be to eliminate the debt as INEOS can afford to and it would be incredibly stupid to be continually hamstrung by repayments not to mention it would waste tens of millions on interest which is clearly not something they would want to do. For now though, the debt is effectively a Glazer problem and all energy towards a solution has to be focused on getting the rats out permanently.
Haven’t really seen anyone mention this but surely another sellable asset we have that must be worth more or around the Same price as a Garnacho or Mainoo, on 300k+ a week and 30 years old would make more sense to sell than Garnacho and Mainoo.There is only one way we can generate the funds and PSR headroom for a decent summer rebuild - and it comes at a cost.
Garnacho/Mainoo/Rashford - these are our only top trump cards that we can play in order to generate the kind of funds that are required.
All the deadwood players - Casemiro/Mount/Lindelof/Zirkzee/Hojland etc will not generate significant PSR headroom - they will take some strain off the wages but it has to be homegrowns that generate the real headroom for investment.
Obviously Rashford is the easy one…..after that looks like Garnacho is reluctantly going to be the sacrificial lamb for Rueben……
Plus over £1m a week in salaries for that lot.I was thinking about this on the commute before, all the more after Andy Mitten's comments, and asking myself 'how do it get this bad?'
And, really, so much of it comes down to how the combination of ETH, Arnold and Murtough set out to clear-out our 'deadwood' and re-build (how often do those terms recur in the Caf's lexicon?) and got it so disastrously wrong. If we think of this in terms of investment and assets, here's how it looks to me...
2022: We sign Malacia (£13m: about to leave on loan); Eriksen (a free: being released in the summer); Martinez (£47m: barely played since his first season and, sadly, now dealing with an injury that could finish his time here); Casemiro (a shocker: £60m on a player who doesn't play, who we're desperate to offload); and Antony (~£80m: one of the worst deals in PL history, now on loan and with no future here) - £200m wasted on 5 players, with zero assets, barely 2.5 years on.
2023: Mount (£55m: a mad decision for a player in the final year of his contract, who is almost permanently injured and who has barely played since arriving); Onana (~£43m, but 'free' had we signed him at the end of his Ajax deal: a keeper we will need to replace sometime soon); and Højlund (£64m: promising first season but has struggled horribly for months now) - that's ~£162m with, I'd say, most people, now saying none of these 3 are likely to players we can build on.
I've skipped 2024 for obvious reasons - mostly, it's too early to make informed judgements - but, sheesh, this is £350m+ for almost nothing in tangible assets.
Haven’t really seen anyone mention this but surely another sellable asset we have that must be worth more or around the Same price as a Garnacho or Mainoo, on 300k+ a week and 30 years old would make more sense to sell than Garnacho and Mainoo.
Bruno’s value is only going to drop from here on out but we’d lose another huge wage and get money from his sale. Could help with a lot of these cash flow issues and inflated wages.
There's no chance we'll be spending anywhere near that much200-250m because of player sales and contract expirey
There's no chance we'll be spending anywhere near that much
Based on our cash flow issues alongside the PSR perspective I would be wary of believing that we will be reinvesting all incoming funds back into the transfer market. My best guess would be maybe one significant fee for a position of need such as striker and then 2 or 3 smaller deals targeted at Dorgu like players that we feel we can develop into what Amorim is looking for.
I’d be happy to have mediocrity for a year or two if it got the finances in check and allowed us to get hold of the finances again and used them wisely. Issue is, the glazers will be taking dividends in a year or two so all that hard work will be undone by the leeches. There needs to be a buyout completed and all debt cleared, the new stadium and regeneration is the best time for them to sell up and cash in and not have to deal with the hassle of a new stadium build.
In what world are we making a profit on Zirkzee?I think we will spend around EUR200m with more than half of it coming from sales. This would be similar to what we did in 2024. Hopefully, we will reduce our wage bill at this summer.
Rashford - 40m
Zirkzee - 40m
Antony - 25m
Malacia - 5m
Some mix of youth players) - 15m
Sancho - 25m
Will look to also sell Casemiro, Shaw, Mount but unlikely to find takers.
Any transfer wishlist that doesn’t include a goalkeeper is insane. Imagine going into a third season with Onana as our #1…
€40m isn't a profit, is it?In what world are we making a profit on Zirkzee?
To be fair his buyout clause was seen as a bargain for the young player of the year from Italy. I don't know if he'd get 40m but I could still see him going for higher than we bought him abroad, even after a poor season.In what world are we making a profit on Zirkzee?
Apologies, for some reason I had his release clause at €32m rather than €42m.€40m isn't a profit, is it?
It’s been Italian teams linked with him though hasn’t it and they never spend big.To be fair his buyout clause was seen as a bargain for the young player of the year from Italy. I don't know if he'd get 40m but I could still see him going for higher than we bought him abroad, even after a poor season.
I'll never get that train of thought... I mean, we see the deficiencies, we know where we are in the PL table and we also know that we are where we are deservedly. It doesn't need the bestest players in the world to improve on what we have yet here we are once again hearing people talking about CL money being the absolute necessity because money and reputation. Give me another season with under the week football against the likes of Bayern, Barcelona and Inter. Lets get hammered there, it will only do good for our reputation.Well we know we’re probably getting the 25m for sancho. It’s the Rashford and Antony sales that will be crucial. Also the Europa league is very vital this season. We ain’t getting anywhere near the top 7 so this is a must win competition. With CL next season that will increase our budget quite a bit.
Well said.Wait? The main thing you took from that was there was two years where the spending was down!!
You need to spend to win in the PL
Look at the team that are top and likely to win it this year. They have spent considerably less than we have over the last ten years!
£100m net on transfers a season isn't sustainable or sensible for any club to spend!
A lot of fans need to start to realise that we cannot just throw money at this problem! We have to (and clearly are based on the January window) start buying players at sensible prices with sensible contracts.
There's no quick fix to sort this squad out. It's probably going to take years to make us competitive again.
Quite obviously not, but the point was that after finishing 2nd (previous season we finished 6th/7th) and finishing 3rd (previous season we finished 6th) we drastically reduced the spending whilst our rivals at the top did not (which set us back the following season)
You do realise when you sign top players and then show them you are not willing to be ambitious, that is a recipe for disaster, right?
There is no point saying Liverpool spent less than us, when my post speaks about the way you spend money. The point is though Liverpool have actually spent a far bit of money over the past 4/5 years and only got near the title after they spent a lot on Allison and VVD.
No one mentioned anything about quick fixes; what will not sort the squad out, though, is a lack of spending. Being scared to spend money is not the answer; fixing the issues around the way you spend money and the poor decisions made during recruitment is.
The less money we spend the more years it will take too, summer windows also are not only about spending, getting better at maximising transfer revenue is something we also need to look at, you know since we hired "best in class"
Well said.
Bolded part, it is disheartening a lot seeing that even some of the fans seemingly haven't gotten the memo by now. And thats even after watching us for the last 10 years
