Film Suicide Squad (2016)

[Dante]

Spoiler

Suicide Squad will sit nicely next to BvS. Maybe it's not just Superhero films getting trashed but Warner Bros. rushing crap films out.

I didn't enjoy a single one of those movies. And it wasn't for want of trying.

I love a good popcorn sci-fi/fantasy movie. But the current generation of comic book films are just far too cartoony, imo. Believability is obviously not a priority, but the rules of the universe and the limits of the characters' powers are far too inconsistent. The writers vary what's possible from scene to scene. I always seem to find myself thinking 'why could they not just have done that in beginning?'.

 

[VP89]

Watchmen was at least an accurate representation of the characters, and there was plenty of imagery from the graphic novel he could copy. BvS was just dogshit.

Struggling to believe this is anything close to as bad as that was.

I very much appreciated the set up BvS left for Justice League. The Flash cameo/Superman dream Ben Affleck had was a major positive and most viewers didn't actually appreciate it or understand it.

With regard to accurate representations, its tricky in Batman/Superman because there are so many comics and they often conflict with one another. What did they misrepresent in BvS that was major, may I ask?

 

[evil_geko]

How can people still consider Rotten Tomatoes as a valid source for movie review is beyond me, so many ridiculous scores on that website, both high and low.

As for Jared Leto being too little in the film, most of people that watched the film said that Joker is in it 25-30 minutes of the movie, that is not "barely in it" for me.

 

[VP89]

I think this is the issue, along with script writers that aren't up to the level of those Marvel have. The Warner/DC films seem to want to introduce too many characters - some of whom need introducing to movie audiences who are unfamiliar with them, some of whom do not - all in the space of three films and the stories obviously suffer for it. Marvel presumably have much less studio interference than DC as they produce films with their own dedicated studio. That same issue is probably what made Sony's Spider-Man films unravel. Spider-Man 3 and the Amazing Spider-Man 2 were dreadful for the same reasons. In fact, you could make a very good comparison between Spider-Man 3 and Batman Vs Superman, that despite the different tones, they both tried to cram too many characters and too many story threads into a single film which wasn't enough to do it justice (no pun intended).

Agreed. But Spiderman was pitched as a film for the masses and mainstream. Snyder on the other hand made his flick for the comic fans solely. Thats just my opinion anyway. There were also very smart references in BvS which is difficult to knit in (EG. the Flash bit and Evil Superman hint for Justice League, etc).

How can people still consider Rotten Tomatoes as a valid source for movie review is beyond me, so many ridiculous scores on that website, both high and low.

As for Jared Leto being too little in the film, most of people that watched the film said that Joker is in it 25-30 minutes of the movie, that is not "barely in it" for me.

Considering it was well documented Joker wasn't part of the squad, I'm surprised Critics still have a qualm about his screen time. Again, what did they expect?!

 

[evil_geko]

Because you can't take a superhero movie entirely seriously.

This is pretty much subjective and not a fact though. If a superhero story is done right and interesting, you don't need humour to entertain todays short span movie goers.
The Dark Knight trilogy is the good example.

 

[decorativeed]

Agreed. But Spiderman was pitched as a film for the masses and mainstream. Snyder on the other hand made his flick for the comic fans solely. Thats just my opinion anyway. There were also very smart references in BvS which is difficult to knit in (EG. the Flash bit and Evil Superman hint for Justice League, etc).

I don't think that studios spend hundreds of millions of dollars to make a film for what is now a very niche market. They are supposed to appeal to a wide audience, and wide audiences still go and watch these films.

I know a little about comic lore but Batman V Superman was a mess of a film regardless of whether I recognised what the omega marks on the floor were foreshadowing or not. Suicide Squad just looks to be repeating the same mistakes in terms of it being too much too soon, but also seems to be trying to emulate the likes of Guardians of the Galaxy with the big pop soundtrack, quirky lesser known characters and 'clever' quipping.

 

[Ubik]

I very much appreciated the set up BvS left for Justice League. The Flash cameo/Superman dream Ben Affleck had was a major positive and most viewers didn't actually appreciate it or understand it.

With regard to accurate representations, its tricky in Batman/Superman because there are so many comics and they often conflict with one another. What did they misrepresent in BvS that was major, may I ask?

Bats being a killer, Superman being a "woe-is-me" bellend. Lex Luthor! And don't get me started on Lois Lane, who continually shatters your suspension of disbelief because it's so mind bogglingly odd that anyone would like her that much, let alone a SUPERBEING!

I thought the flashforward was alright, but the Cyborg, Aquaman and Flash stuff on the computer was comically bad.

 

[decorativeed]

This is pretty much subjective and not a fact though. If a superhero story is done right and interesting, you don't need humour to entertain todays short span movie goers.
The Dark Knight trilogy is the good example.

Verisimilitude was Richard Donner's keyword when he made the first Superman film, and for these worlds to be believable and entertaining there pretty much needs to be some level of humour. Our lives are full of it, so why wouldn't theirs be? That doesn't mean it should be relentlessly jokey. The best of these films strike the balance just right.

 

[VP89]

I don't think that studios spend hundreds of millions of dollars to make a film for what is now a very niche market. They are supposed to appeal to a wide audience, and wide audiences still go and watch these films.

I know a little about comic lore but Batman V Superman was a mess of a film regardless of whether I recognised what the omega marks on the floor were foreshadowing or not. Suicide Squad just looks to be repeating the same mistakes in terms of it being too much too soon, but also seems to be trying to emulate the likes of Guardians of the Galaxy with the big pop soundtrack, quirky lesser known characters and 'clever' quipping.

The producers certainly wanted a film for the masses. But Snyder was quite intent on making it for the comic fans. He even said how pissed he was that the producers edited out bits he felt was important in the final cut.

I don't think Suicide was in any way trying to be like Guardians, but I can understand the comparison because of the soundtrack. Again though, its not fair to assume the theme/flow of a film just because its about a group of misfits that its suddenly comparable to Guardians. Suicide Squad has major players that have big backdrops in comics & DC tend to darker than Marvel too.

Bats being a killer, Superman being a "woe-is-me" bellend. Lex Luthor! And don't get me started on Lois Lane, who continually shatters your suspension of disbelief because it's so mind bogglingly odd that anyone would like her that much, let alone a SUPERBEING!

I thought the flashforward was alright, but the Cyborg, Aquaman and Flash stuff on the computer was comically bad.

Batman is a killer in the comics - its one of the things that frustrated me about Nolan's take on him. Lex Luther is subjective tbh - some liked it some hated it. Louis wasn't far off comics either.

They captured Superman very well for me. He's always battling a moral conscience, and the journey of actually facing death & mortality the only thing that will help him understand humans.

The other heros being on Lex's Flash drive was again, not far off how his character is, because Lex is forever intimidated by metas (hence his hatrid for Superman).

 

[sullydnl]

Making a film for comic book fans is fine. You just can't then expect it to be regarded as a good film generally though.

A film that only really works for fans of the comics isn't a very good film.

 

[Sigma]

Uninteresting. Tries to be funny but doesn't succeed, basically

To be honest, from the trailers, you could see this was going to be the case

 

[simonhch]

I didn't enjoy a single one of those movies. And it wasn't for want of trying.

I love a good popcorn sci-fi/fantasy movie. But the current generation of comic book films are just far too cartoony, imo. Believability is obviously not a priority, but the rules of the universe and the limits of the characters' powers are far too inconsistent. The writers vary what's possible from scene to scene. I always seem to find myself thinking 'why could they not just have done that in beginning?'.

I agree about not really enjoying anything on that list, except GOTG and Antman were very good IMO.

 

[simonhch]

This. BvS was over-slammed (fair enough it was a let down for most) because it was too dark/dull. Its like these feckers haven't seen Watchmen. What did they expect from Snyder FFS

Plenty of dark movies do very well. Yes, some critics played on this aspect of BvS too much, but as the Batman trilogy proved, you can do dark/gritty and do it well. In fact, personally, I prefer dark movies. At the end of the day though, this whole debate is rather pointless because BvS was just a really, unspeakable shitty piece of film making. We all knew this would be the case, after hiring the director that brought us MoS, and the quite simply atrocious Sucker Punch. The fact they've kept Synder on for the Justice League movie, is all I (and I suspect many movie goers/fans) need to know, to be certain it will be another steaming pile of shite.

On the flip side, I'm not a marvel fan either. I find the costumes, acting, and plot lines excessively campy. As a comic book fan (ish), I also took umbrage that they underpowered key characters (Thor etc), just to make the lesser ones (ScarJo, Hawkeye) less pointless. Like when Ironman goes toe to toe with Thor, a God. Disappointing, but I understand why they do it for film making purposes.

For me, the two Marvel movies that knocked it out of the park, were GOTG and Deadpool. Antman, was also refreshingly light, you could feel Edgar Wright's quirky fingerprints all over it.

I had some hopes for SS, mainly because Ayer can be a decent director; so I'll watch it with an open mind.

 

[kps88]

People who defend an upcoming movie without having seen it themselves are the absolute worst.

 

[Zen]

Didn't expect the butthurt here, but come on, these films aren't getting slated because the critics and/or viewers don't "get them" or they are dark or the characters needed introducing - they are getting slated because they are bad films. I genuinely struggled to get through BvS, it was too long, horribly plotted, silly and a big mess that really nothing much going for it, from the trailers and it seems the reviews back this up, SS seems to somewhats similar in the sense it's barely trying to make a coherent film, just one that's a bit mad and fun - with absolutely horrible dialogue.

60% of critics don't have some odd fascination with Marvel over DC, 60% of critics probably don't care which universe the film comes from, especially most that get verified on RT.

 

[crappycraperson]

Didn't expect the butthurt here, but come on, these films aren't getting slated because the critics and/or viewers don't "get them" or they are dark or the characters needed introducing - they are getting slated because they are bad films. I genuinely struggled to get through BvS, it was too long, horribly plotted, silly and a big mess that really nothing much going for it, from the trailers and it seems the reviews back this up, SS seems to somewhats similar in the sense it's barely trying to make a coherent film, just one that's a bit mad and fun - with absolutely horrible dialogue.

60% of critics don't have some odd fascination with Marvel over DC, 60% of critics probably don't care which universe the film comes from, especially most that get verified on RT.

This. I don't really like comic book movies too much (much preferred Nolan's trilogy to be honest) but BVS is just a straight up bad movie in terms of plot, editing and direction. I have not liked a lot of Marvel movies either but they have not been a mish mash of sequences like BVS was.

 

[Welsh Wonder]

People who defend an upcoming movie without having seen it themselves are the absolute worst.

In fairness, so are people that pan them before actually watching them.

Personally I like lots of movies that the critics hated, and vice versa. I'd rather base my judgement on what I think of it, rather than what someone else does.

 

[Seveneric]

Snyder is an awful director (besides Legend of the Guardian and to some extent Watchmen) and so is Ayer, so bravo to DC for hiring them

Except anything changes between now and its release, I expect that Justice League will be panned too (probably rated higher than BvS though). The only DC movie I have any sort of faith in is WW, I think that will do reasonably well. I wonder if they'll proceed with the planned Cyborg movie.

SS will open huge, but I'm thinking if it'll suffer the same fate as BvS where it opened huge, critics thrashed it, word of mouth spread and it ended up having a record drop in its 2nd week

 

[GBBQ]

If ever a cinematic universe needed to be rebooted it is this one. They've made so many missteps on key characters (Superman, Lois Lane, Luthor and possibly even Joker) and the tone seems to be all over the place that it seems like its doomed to fail.

 

[Andy_Cole]

In fairness, so are people that pan them before actually watching them.

Personally I like lots of movies that the critics hated, and vice versa. I'd rather base my judgement on what I think of it, rather than what someone else does.

I'm the same. I thought BvS was awesome. As was MoS. Don't trust critics. Empire is one of the few that is okay.

 

[sullydnl]

Tbf if you consistently like films that were panned by critics and dislike films they adored then you probably have pretty crap taste in films.

The notion that critics aren't to be trusted is a bit ropey.

 

[John_Jensen]

If ever a cinematic universe needed to be rebooted it is this one. They've made so many missteps on key characters (Superman, Lois Lane, Luthor and possibly even Joker) and the tone seems to be all over the place that it seems like its doomed to fail.

Please God no, just let it die.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I was thinking about skipping this as it feels like a reactive mess from the trailers but my co-host on the podcast is dying to see it so will have to

 

[Ubik]

Saving it is just a matter of putting good creative people in charge that know the characters, know the universe and know how to make good films. In other words, stop using Zack Snyder.

 

[Ish]

How does Iron Man 3 get 79%?

The first thing I noticed as well

And as mentioned below, I like Thor, but part 2 was shit.

 

[OneUnited24]

The first thing I noticed as well

And as mentioned below, I like Thor, but part 2 was shit.

Ditto. But that said even when Marvel movies are bad they dont go DC level of bad. Everything in DC tends to stink, the plot, script, editing, etc...

I want to see this but after seeing BvS and hearing the reviews i might give it a miss.

 

[Ish]

Ditto. But that said even when Marvel movies are bad they dont go DC level of bad. Everything in DC tends to stink, the plot, script, editing, etc...

I want to see this but after seeing BvS and hearing the reviews i might give it a miss.

Aye, I tend to agree. The only film I thought was really poor was Ironman 3. But even then, it had its moments.

 

[entropy]

I haven't seen Watchmen. But I remember watching BvS and thinking "How the feck can superhero movie be so dull and boring"

 

[okLaptop1]

I saw Suicide Squad a few hours ago, I enjoyed it a lot. The crowd I saw it with was buzzed too, but that's to be expected with a midnight screening of mostly fans. I suspected that the film would be a lot more grim than it's bright jokey trailers, but the final product lands somewhere in between. Smith, Robbie, and Courtney were the most fun, and Leto was brilliant in the little screen time he had.

In terms of comic book movies this year:
Deadpool > Suicide Squad > Civil War = BvS > X-Men > TMNT II

In terms of David Ayer movies:
End Of Watch > Training Day > Suicide Squad = Fury > The Fast And The Furious > a few truly rubbish movies

 

[Grinner]

This has got that aussie cnut in it, right? It must be bad. Will Smith can feck off too.

 

[DWelbz19]

I haven't seen Watchmen. But I remember watching BvS and thinking "How the feck can superhero movie be so dull and boring"

Supposedly the first third of the movie is spent providing backlog to the six main characters who you're meant to be watching a film about. What could go wrong, eh?

 

[entropy]

This has got that aussie cnut in it, right? It must be bad. Will Smith can feck off too.

I thought he did. Not sure why he came back.

 

[OneUnited24]

I haven't seen Watchmen. But I remember watching BvS and thinking "How the feck can superhero movie be so dull and boring"

Has anyone watched the extended version of BvS? Did that improve things?

 

[Zen]

I've only seen the Ultimate Edition version, so I guess not.

 

[Rooney1987]

I saw Suicide Squad a few hours ago, I enjoyed it a lot. The crowd I saw it with was buzzed too, but that's to be expected with a midnight screening of mostly fans. I suspected that the film would be a lot more grim than it's bright jokey trailers, but the final product lands somewhere in between. Smith, Robbie, and Courtney were the most fun, and Leto was brilliant in the little screen time he had.

In terms of comic book movies this year:
Deadpool > Suicide Squad > Civil War = BvS > X-Men > TMNT II

In terms of David Ayer movies:
End Of Watch > Training Day > Suicide Squad = Fury > The Fast And The Furious > a few truly rubbish movies

Thats good to know, got a mate in America who saw it early said same thing.

Got to ask Civil War on same level as BvS?

 

[.Rossi]

People who defend an upcoming movie without having seen it themselves are the absolute worst.

They're bad guys, it's what they do

 

[okLaptop1]

Got to ask Civil War on same level as BvS?

Yeah, I liked both (I should mention I mean the extended BvS cut, but I didn't like the theatrical cut that much less). They were kinda different versions of exactly the same movie lol

 

[entropy]

Has anyone watched the extended version of BvS? Did that improve things?

I won't be wasting any more of my time. Already regret watching it once.

 

[Cheesy]

Tbf if you consistently like films that were panned by critics and dislike films they adored then you probably have pretty crap taste in films.

The notion that critics aren't to be trusted is a bit ropey.

I'd say the thing that should be remembered about a website like Rotten Tomatoes is that the percentage is just a meter of critics likes/dislikes. 80% of critics could view a movie as being an alright 7/10 and it'd get 80%, whereas you could have a movie which is incredibly polarising and gets 50%, but has a ton of 9/10 reviews from critics.

But the idea that there's some sort of agenda from critics is a bit daft as you say, as if these professional critics who watch an incredible array of movies give a feck about some manufactured contest between Marvel and DC fans.

Saving it is just a matter of putting good creative people in charge that know the characters, know the universe and know how to make good films. In other words, stop using Zack Snyder.

Also be willing to take risks. I've yet to see Suicide Squad, but one of the criticisms I'm hearing of it is that it eventually falls into being incredibly predictable and formulaic. Which is disappointing for a movie which has been constantly talking up how different it is in reference to the fact it's main cast are largely bad guys. These movies are often as interesting as their villain...and most of the time, the villain is a disposable plot device. Loki is pretty much the only superhero movie villain I can think of, for the sole fact that they don't seem to kill him off.

Deadpool was on the right track by giving us something different with the comedy/breaking 4th wall vibe it had. Still fell into some superhero movie pit-traps, but it was interesting and worth a watch. Which is more than can be said for most of them.

 

[.Rossi]

Zack Snyder - Executive producer.

Ffs