Jesus, its more about the fact he is playing for his national team, scoring against their opposition at major tournaments
Sturridge vs Welbeck
- Thread starter Robbie Boy
- Start date
Jesus, its more about the fact he is playing for his national team, scoring against their opposition at major tournaments
I'm just incredibly bemused looking at this debate, I don't know what to say that doesn't insult people's intelligence.
For some reason people have doubted Welbeck since he was 17, no idea why, but just look through some of the old threads for evidence. He's a star, a worldie, its just incredibly obvious to anyone who looks at what he does on a football pitch. People were saying Sturridge was much better playing under Villas Boas, scoring goals but destroying attack after attack, were surprised when he was picked first for England ahead of Sturridge by Capello, surprised when Hodgson has him as starting striker, surprised when he's one of our players who plays the most. They shouldn't be, its because he is a fantastic footballer who offers a huge amount to the team, whatever his position.
He may well get even better, but he's right now one of our best players.
For some reason people have doubted Welbeck since he was 17, no idea why, but just look through some of the old threads for evidence. He's a star, a worldie, its just incredibly obvious to anyone who looks at what he does on a football pitch. People were saying Sturridge was much better playing under Villas Boas, scoring goals but destroying attack after attack, were surprised when he was picked first for England ahead of Sturridge by Capello, surprised when Hodgson has him as starting striker, surprised when he's one of our players who plays the most. They shouldn't be, its because he is a fantastic footballer who offers a huge amount to the team, whatever his position.
He may well get even better, but he's right now one of our best players.
I don't see why anyone doubts either of those young English lads. Sturridge and Welbeck are the real deal. As long as they get consistent game time they are on the road to becoming top class pros.
The problem is, everything is based on stats these days. In fact, going by some of the posts on here, some posters probably don't even watch the games. They just look at the stats at the end of the game and presume that Welbeck has been shite because he didn't score or bag an assist.
The lad has been putting in some brilliant shifts this season and the fact that he got MOTM vs Liverpool despite not scoring, speaks in volumes in what he offers on the pitch.
The lad has been putting in some brilliant shifts this season and the fact that he got MOTM vs Liverpool despite not scoring, speaks in volumes in what he offers on the pitch.
Aye, no stat will suggest how Welbeck played a huge part in our winner against City.
both are quality players. bodes well for England.
So I'm nodding along to that until you just go way too far. Especially the last line.
If he doesn't get better (which he will, so it doesn't matter) he won't be with us for very long. Because he's a long way from 'one of our best players' at the moment.
Caf extremism is ridiculous.
Yup. fecking bananas.
He should get better. He's a good player but if this is his limit he wont end up 'the world star' you're barking on about.
I love Danny but he's far from "one of our best players".
At the moment he's just a squad player who can play on the wing or upfront.
He has a lot of work to do yet.
At the moment he's just a squad player who can play on the wing or upfront.
He has a lot of work to do yet.
Some sense talking.
The last part is nonsense. He's our 4th choice forward and far from being 'one of our best players'.
People on here massively overrate him. He's a talented youngster who has the potential to be a very good player but barring some incredible growth I'd be shocked if he went on to become a world beater in all honesty.
Sturridge is good too and I'd hold him slightly ahead of Welbeck taking everything into account. I don't think either of them will be world beaters though; they'll both just probably turn out to be very good players but not in that top bracket.
I think if you asked fans of every other Premier League club besides United, who'd they rather have, I'm pretty sure most of them would pick Sturridge. I do think Sturridge is more of a goal threat going forward both in the middle and in wider positions and he's proven that at Bolton, Chelsea and so far for Liverpool.
However, I'd rather have Welbeck at United than Sturridge. Welbeck this season has become like Valencia or Park at their best, where the minimum we're going to get is a hard working player that does the job that's asked of them that helps out in ways that aren't seen on the stat sheet. Whereas with Sturridge, we don't really need him or his attacking play because of what we already have.
However, I'd rather have Welbeck at United than Sturridge. Welbeck this season has become like Valencia or Park at their best, where the minimum we're going to get is a hard working player that does the job that's asked of them that helps out in ways that aren't seen on the stat sheet. Whereas with Sturridge, we don't really need him or his attacking play because of what we already have.
The difference between Sturridge and Welbeck is that when Sturridge is played out on the wing he sulks, doesn't track back or defend well and is then sold by a side well behind in the league.
Welbeck on the other hand gives everything pinches the ball off defenders and works his nuts off.
Sturridge is a very good striker but when he leads the line he is a bit too short and if the ball keeps being played long up to him without support then it is going to get picked off by your opposition. Welbeck is a much better bet as a central striker long term.
He is getting better over time as he gets used to playing in the shirt. It isn't a straight line improvement like Cleverley's but when he plays up front he is dependent on supply and we have ups and downs at that as a team.
Welbeck on the other hand gives everything pinches the ball off defenders and works his nuts off.
Sturridge is a very good striker but when he leads the line he is a bit too short and if the ball keeps being played long up to him without support then it is going to get picked off by your opposition. Welbeck is a much better bet as a central striker long term.
He is getting better over time as he gets used to playing in the shirt. It isn't a straight line improvement like Cleverley's but when he plays up front he is dependent on supply and we have ups and downs at that as a team.
They're both very fine talents. Welbeck has been suffering a bit from the arrival of Van Persie. Let's not forget how effective Welbeck was leading the line last season, with 12 goals and 6 assists in 27 starts, for an attack that scored more goals than any of Fergie's teams (per 38 games) besides the 1999-2000 squad. Only Rooney had more goals. Not to mention the team winning 89 points, which United has only bested twice over 38 games (1999-2000 and 2008-9).
Sturridge has never played such a part for such a team, with such strong results. But with Welbeck being left to play mostly out wide this season, I think people are seeing that as a step back and underrating him as a result.
Sturridge has never played such a part for such a team, with such strong results. But with Welbeck being left to play mostly out wide this season, I think people are seeing that as a step back and underrating him as a result.
4th choice forward is far too simplistic to describe the role he's played for us this season. I think he's 5th in the amount of appearances? It doesn't just happen by accident.
I would have in our squad as ahead of him as player although its difficult to quantify but I would say our teir one players are: RVP, Rooney, Vidic, Carrick, Nani (on form), Valencia (on form), and Kagawa. I would have him in tier two with Rafael, De Gea, Evra, Evans and Ferdinand.
No he didn't
Sorry, my fault, I forgot Rooney scored first after Valencia's cross, I thought Welbeck's goal was first.
Lot of his appearances in the league have been from the bench. He has 10 starts only and averages 49 mins per appearance. I'd call that a squad player.
Basically as Plech says, most would agree with your sentiments about Welbeck but after a point you went too far.
This, more sense
Just to note, it's not true that only Rooney had more goals+assists last season, I was only looking at the strikers. However, only Rooney had a better rate of goals+assists per start.
Rooney 43/41=1.05
Welbeck 18/27=.667
Nani 22/33=.667
Valencia 20/32=.625
Rooney 43/41=1.05
Welbeck 18/27=.667
Nani 22/33=.667
Valencia 20/32=.625
England's striking options aren't particularly awe-inspiring, are they? Besides Rooney, they have donkey Carroll and a selfish, shoot at sight Sturridge. That is good for Danny as he gets to start for them in his favored position.
I think you missed the point I was trying to make with the England example.
I feel the same way, he could go out on a 6 month or year loan to a mid-table side and play as a striker to improve certain facets that are lacking in his game. Composure in and around the box. He would get games, playing against major opposition in City, Chelsea, Arsenal etc.
It's an interesting comparison in the sense that it's close between the two but difficult at the same time due to them being pretty different players that have contrasting strengths. Welbeck is the better team player who can link up quite brilliantly at times. He works harder and helps in ball retention and build up play. On the other hand, Sturridge makes a bigger impact in attack. He has more brilliance to open defences up, stretches them more running in behind and is more clinical. Basically, he's more likely to influence the scoreline directly I reckon.
If I had to bet on who goes on to have a better career, it would probably be Welbeck. IF he gets clinical in the final third with his finish/final pass he'll be a class act whereas I'm not sure Sturridge will ever become a team oriented player. But it can go either way.
If I had to bet on who goes on to have a better career, it would probably be Welbeck. IF he gets clinical in the final third with his finish/final pass he'll be a class act whereas I'm not sure Sturridge will ever become a team oriented player. But it can go either way.
If Welbeck was at Chelsea he'd have the same thing. At United he's looked after and developed well. At Chelsea they only cared about him when he was scoring goals last season. When Welbeck isnt scoring they'd treat him the same.
Ok, I had to physically go back, download the game and watch it because of this. I thought 'holy shit a couple of decent highlights? A meaty strike fair play but he must have had a fecking blinder!'....
Seriously?... He wasn't that great. A few times turned down blind alleys, the cross in was nice and the dive was ridiculous. (Also blind alley dribbling again).
It's insane trying to watch Suarez and Sturridge on the pitch they both just instantly put their head down and pump the ball past the player as best they can and chase after it.
Its called taking on a player.
Physically go back?
Yeah, straight after I read that before I downloaded the game to watch it again with my eye on Sturridge. Wrong sentence structure but I cbf changing it.
Every time they get the ball though? Whenever someone is near them? At the start of the second half Suarez has two unmarked options to his right. Albeit Henderson and Downing so fair play probably made the right choice but he chooses to try and take the ball through Garcia who just stands his ground and the ball spills away.
There was no need for it. All he had to do was stand and hit a ball to dwoning instead he tries to take a player on with two other opposition players behind him so if his touch takes him past the player the other two will mop up easily.
It's a bit absurd, really. Imo.
Every time they get the ball though? Whenever someone is near them? At the start of the second half Suarez has two unmarked options to his right. Albeit Henderson and Downing so fair play probably made the right choice but he chooses to try and take the ball through Garcia who just stands his ground and the ball spills away.
There was no need for it. All he had to do was stand and hit a ball to dwoning instead he tries to take a player on with two other opposition players behind him so if his touch takes him past the player the other two will mop up easily.
It's a bit absurd, really. Imo.
Well thats Liverpool's play style. Get the ball to Suarez and he'll immediately look to try and beat players to get up the pitch.
It used to happen a lot, but further up the pitch, with Torres too. Gerrard would find him in one on ones and he'd go at a player as much as possible. I guess they're more convinced of Suarez' dribbling and want him to do it anywhere he gets the ball. Sturridge is very tricky too
It used to happen a lot, but further up the pitch, with Torres too. Gerrard would find him in one on ones and he'd go at a player as much as possible. I guess they're more convinced of Suarez' dribbling and want him to do it anywhere he gets the ball. Sturridge is very tricky too
That happens because Welbeck is naturally more versatile. Sturridge is obviously out of position when played on the wing while Welbeck isn't.
Sturridge is a striker through and through. Too selfish to be creative out wide and prefers the comforts of the center of the pitch, and playing one-twos in around the box, rather than tracking people on flanks.
In fact Welbeck and Sturridge are the type to make a perfect twin pair as a strike partnership.
For sure, Danny doing all the holdup work and Sturridge playing the free-role.
I think in a few years this conversation will go differently, now that DS is at the pool.
He must have a time machine, sweet.
Blair, you might want to look at this
https://www.redcafe.net/f7/sturridge-vs-welbeck-325886/index7.html#post12931385
..oh and close the door on your way out
https://www.redcafe.net/f7/sturridge-vs-welbeck-325886/index7.html#post12931385
..oh and close the door on your way out
They looked very threatening tonight against Poland. Thought Wellbeck did a tonne of work and probably should have scored but his runs are selfless and he makes room for others and is tireless. Sturridge is slightly more direct and got a few chances which he could have done better with. With width of Townsend and delivery of Baines I really enjoyed how they stretched Poland. Good game.
I prefer Sturridge ATM.
But as is pointed out above; their styles contrast very well.
But as is pointed out above; their styles contrast very well.
If it was England vs Spain at the world cup and you had to chose one to play alongside/behind Rooney, who would you choose?
If I had to choose who I'd want through on goal in the last minute, it'd be Sturridge's nan before it was Danny.
Being so rubbish and all.
Welbeck is the arm and Sturridge is the sword. Welbeck's hold up role in leading the line on a regular basis is seriously underrated by a lot on the caf. You'd probably have to go back to the start of the 2011/12 season when he was on fire to see him do it in a United shirt. (Before the hammy injury)
He'll be 25/26 and physically matured when he gets his first 'real' shot to do it for United. It will be an interesting prospect.
I won't argue with that, I still think the job Danny does is hugely underestimated though. He's an intelligent player, he's not the most natural striker by any means but he understands the game which is half the battle. If the rest of the England team has his selfless approach to the game they might get somewhere, they're not going to get anywhere on talent alone.