Sturridge vs Welbeck

England could have a dilemma on their hands.

-------Carrick----Wilshere-------
-------------Gerrard-------------
------Sturridge----Welbeck----
--------------Rooney------------

Could this work? Or would Rooney be too far forward? Maybe swap him and Sturridge, either way I still can't see us lining up in Brazil without one of Lampard, Barry or Milner. Still, just a thought.
 
2 Man Midfield said:
England could have a dilemma on their hands.

-------Carrick----Wilshere-------
-------------Gerrard-------------
------Sturridge----Welbeck----
--------------Rooney------------

Could this work? Or would Rooney be too far forward? Maybe swap him and Sturridge, either way I still can't see us lining up in Brazil without one of Lampard, Barry or Milner. Still, just a thought.
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please no....
 
BarneyLFC said:
That's not true at all, his final ball is excellent and his vision is quite good too.
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Oh that is utter crap!! I rate him higher then Welbeck and I have seen him, almost in every match, being selfish when the better ball is on or when he ignores the obvious pass and goes for his own glory instead of the team and honestly, I find it frustrating!!!

I'm not a Liverpool fan and I'm not from England, but the guy has so much to give and IMO his vision and passing and overall team play annoys me
 
elmo said:
I think a front 3 of Welbeck, Sturridge and Rooney would work really well for England.
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Its not even a question of them working well, its more that England don't have any other options. Welbeck and Rooney are two of England's best players and so obviously have to play, and Sturridge is the only other English attacker worth mentioning now Walcott's broken.

Lord save us from Andros Townsend in Brazil...
 
Chabon said:
Its not even a question of them working well, its more that England don't have any other options. Welbeck and Rooney are two of England's best players and so obviously have to play, and Sturridge is the only other English attacker worth mentioning now Walcott's broken.

Lord save us from Andros Townsend in Brazil...
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Eh, judging from how some fans view Welbeck, you'll think he's the second coming of Heskey who does feck all on the pitch :lol:

You just know England is going to end up with Lennon and Townsend on the wings :wenger:
 
Chabon said:
Its not even a question of them working well, its more that England don't have any other options. Welbeck and Rooney are two of England's best players and so obviously have to play, and Sturridge is the only other English attacker worth mentioning now Walcott's broken.

Lord save us from Andros Townsend in Brazil...
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This. There's also Oxlade-Chamberlain, Sterling and Zaha who may all come into the mix at some point. In terms of the future we have a few good, technical players kicking into high gear. I mean, we're nowhere near the Germans, who are cruising down the autobahn to pounding techno but it's a good sign nonetheless.
 
Yeah, some of the kids are promising, and Lallana is inoffensive. But the obvious three are so much better than all the other over 21 players who get in the squad that they just have to play.
 
This thread (Defoe comparisons in particular) smells of people that don't really watch Sturridge but adhere to the general stereotypes that have followed him around since he was a youngster.

Which is exactly what I'd be doing if I was to pass comment on Welbeck ;)
 
It's not a surprise to anyone who has a clue about football that when you play Welbeck and Sturridge in the strikers position then there's nothing to separate between the two. It can be easily argued that Welbeck is a more rounded player than Sturridge and is a lot less selflish than him.
 
Chabon said:
Its not even a question of them working well, its more that England don't have any other options. Welbeck and Rooney are two of England's best players and so obviously have to play, and Sturridge is the only other English attacker worth mentioning now Walcott's broken.

Lord save us from Andros Townsend in Brazil...
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Welbeck is not England's second best player. Also, if Sterling keeps up his form then I'd definitely have him out wide ahead of Sturridge.

.Rossi said:
Oh that is utter crap!! I rate him higher then Welbeck and I have seen him, almost in every match, being selfish when the better ball is on or when he ignores the obvious pass and goes for his own glory instead of the team and honestly, I find it frustrating!!!

I'm not a Liverpool fan and I'm not from England, but the guy has so much to give and IMO his vision and passing and overall team play annoys me
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Again, this isn't true at all. He's very good at bringing others into moves with little flicks and he has several assists that have won us points.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Welbeck is not England's second best player. Also, if Sterling keeps up his form then I'd definitely have him out wide ahead of Sturridge.



Again, this isn't true at all. He's very good at bringing others into moves with little flicks and he has several assists that have won us points.
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If you don't see him as selfish then your looking at it from a point of bias, the larger worry is his temperament, he has the ability to sulk when things aren't going his way. In the pressure cooker of the World finals that attitude if not addressed could be damaging. Sturridge has a lot to offer from a football point of view but mentally I see Wellbeck as the stronger of the two.
 
gasmanc said:
If you don't see him as selfish then your looking at it from a point of bias, the larger worry is his temperament, he has the ability to sulk when things aren't going his way. In the pressure cooker of the World finals that attitude if not addressed could be damaging. Sturridge has a lot to offer from a football point of view but mentally I see Wellbeck as the stronger of the two.
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He is selfish, most top strikers are, but he isn't overly selfish. You only have to look at him when he plays with Suarez - he has no problem setting up chances for him. He's done the same with Henderson, Gerrard and Coutinho too. He does get annoyed when he doesn't score or assist in a game, but that usually drives him on. He's mimicked his dance in front of the Kop and then has gone on to score later in the game. I have no idea who is mentally stronger, I'm yet to see Sturridge in a truly challenging situation.
 
BarneyLFC said:
He is selfish, most top strikers are, but he isn't overly selfish. You only have to look at him when he plays with Suarez - he has no problem setting up chances for him. He's done the same with Henderson, Gerrard and Coutinho too. He does get annoyed when he doesn't score or assist in a game, but that usually drives him on. He's mimicked his dance in front of the Kop and then has gone on to score later in the game. I have no idea who is mentally stronger, I'm yet to see Sturridge in a truly challenging situation.
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I think re Sturridge when he's settled and playing regularly then you see a better, more team orientated, player. When he is trying to establish himself he can be very selfish as he's trying to prove himself desperately.
 
datura said:
I think re Sturridge when he's settled and playing regularly then you see a better, more team orientated, player. When he is trying to establish himself he can be very selfish as he's trying to prove himself desperately.
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This I agree fully with.
 
2 Man Midfield said:
England could have a dilemma on their hands.

-------Carrick----Wilshere-------
-------------Gerrard-------------
------Sturridge----Welbeck----
--------------Rooney------------

Could this work? Or would Rooney be too far forward? Maybe swap him and Sturridge, either way I still can't see us lining up in Brazil without one of Lampard, Barry or Milner. Still, just a thought.
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Surely, Barkley has gotta be in there somewhere?
 
BarneyLFC said:
He is selfish, most top strikers are, but he isn't overly selfish. You only have to look at him when he plays with Suarez - he has no problem setting up chances for him. He's done the same with Henderson, Gerrard and Coutinho too. He does get annoyed when he doesn't score or assist in a game, but that usually drives him on. He's mimicked his dance in front of the Kop and then has gone on to score later in the game. I have no idea who is mentally stronger, I'm yet to see Sturridge in a truly challenging situation.
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I think we have a truly challenging situation coming up, there is the question of a battle for top four ahead and then that following onto Brazil when the former battle is lost :)
 
gasmanc said:
I think we have a truly challenging situation coming up, there is the question of a battle for top four ahead and then that following onto Brazil when the former battle is lost :)
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Can't see us missing out on top 4. We'll get there ahead of Spurs and Everton.
 
.Rossi said:
Oh that is utter crap!! I rate him higher then Welbeck and I have seen him, almost in every match, being selfish when the better ball is on or when he ignores the obvious pass and goes for his own glory instead of the team and honestly, I find it frustrating!!!

I'm not a Liverpool fan and I'm not from England, but the guy has so much to give and IMO his vision and passing and overall team play annoys me
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I think that's not entirely accurate. I don't think of him as a 'goes for glory' player really. He will take shots when the chance is on and he will do it when there are better options around him too. He's not the type of player who will try for a shot at whatever comes his way and let the team down he should be looking around.

When he does get a sniff at actual chances, he is in generally in striker mode and the blinkers come on. Something he can improve, but not too much. Strikers need to back their own goalscoring ability too (see Torres for when that goes horribly wrong). Outside of that, I think his vision and decisionmaking is generally quite good and his skill in executing it good enough.

A bit like Suarez really. Except that Suarez' vision, movement and skill is on a different level. Suarez gets more involved since he's always on the move and where the ball is, but I think he is far more prone to go for glory than Sturridge. Of course, he pulls it off often enough that there's a touch of genius to it anyway.

I expected a hugely selfish player when he arrived and I've had very little complaint about it. He's been an asset in our buildup.
 
datura said:
I think re Sturridge when he's settled and playing regularly then you see a better, more team orientated, player. When he is trying to establish himself he can be very selfish as he's trying to prove himself desperately.
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That would fit well with the performances he's given for England and Chelsea.

Not the same type I've seen in a red shirt.
 
2 Man Midfield said:
You'd hope so eventually but I can't see it just now. Can see us going with the reliable Gerrard/Lampard until they actually call it a day themselves.
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I expect both will after this tournament. I suspect if Gerrard wasn't captain, he would have already.
 
B20 said:
I expect both will after this tournament. I suspect if Gerrard wasn't captain, he would have already.
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Gerrard I can handle, he's still a great player used right. I'll just be really disappointed if after all we learnt in Germany we decide to rock up in Rio playing:

Milner---Gerrard--Lampard---Young
 
Disappointment is a fact of life when Roy is your manager.
 
2 Man Midfield said:
Gerrard I can handle, he's still a great player used right. I'll just be really disappointed if after all we learnt in Germany we decide to rock up in Rio playing:

Milner---Gerrard--Lampard---Young
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Gerrard is past it now and should only be used as a sub. The England midfield should be based around Carrick Wilshire Henderson and Barclay. It's time to move on from Gerrard and Lampard 3-4 years ago IMO
 
2 Man Midfield said:
England could have a dilemma on their hands.

-------Carrick----Wilshere-------
-------------Gerrard-------------
------Sturridge----Welbeck----
--------------Rooney------------

Could this work? Or would Rooney be too far forward? Maybe swap him and Sturridge, either way I still can't see us lining up in Brazil without one of Lampard, Barry or Milner. Still, just a thought.
Click to expand...
I'd play Rooney as a false 9 and Welbeck and Sturridge as wide players/forwards in the Barcelona mould. Very un-Hodgson but would be good I reckon.
 
alastair said:
And the smallest number of games, to be fair.
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There is 5 points difference despite the huge gulf in form, a blip free season and they will be away with it, can't really see there not being a downturn at some point though and Rogers is easily capable of doing a Keegan/Benitez.
Edit : it's 5 points if they get by Stoke un hampered.
 
duffer said:
Finishing outside the top 4 would be a huge disappointment for Liverpool.
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It would be. Failing to finish outside the top 4 this year would cause us to wait a few more years to return, I think. It's vital we get into the top 4 and push on from there with Suarez.

gasmanc said:
Why on earth not, you think Liverpool are a shoe in despite having the smallest squad of the lot :lol:
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To be honest, I don't think we're a shoe in. I'm joking, I think it'll be very tight and I think United, Everton or us could nick it.
 
BarneyLFC said:
It would be. Failing to finish outside the top 4 this year would cause us to wait a few more years to return, I think. It's vital we get into the top 4 and push on from there with Suarez.



To be honest, I don't think we're a shoe in. I'm joking, I think it'll be very tight and I think United, Everton or us could nick it.
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Sorry Barn but I am not joking, I don't think you will go the distance and United and Liverpools fortunes will change at some point, the players are Champions and you don't become poor players no matter what's going on behind the scenes.

Exciting stuff though, it's actually one of the most exciting times I can remember in a long while, ok you enjoy winning game after game and despite the scoreboard you always felt united would somehow claw it back. These days you just aren't sure at all, it's edge of the seat stuff at times and it would be nice for some of the bloons in the ff to realise it.
 
gasmanc said:
Sorry Barn but I am not joking, I don't think you will go the distance and United and Liverpools fortunes will change at some point, the players are Champions and you don't become poor players no matter what's going on behind the scenes.

Exciting stuff though, it's actually one of the most exciting times I can remember in a long while, ok you enjoy winning game after game and despite the scoreboard you always felt united would somehow claw it back. These days you just aren't sure at all, it's edge of the seat stuff at times and it would be nice for some of the bloons in the ff to realise it.
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I don't see any reason to believe that Liverpool's will change. You say that because that's what you want to think, there's no reason why we can't keep up our form or improve on it. We have also seen very little to suggest United will improve under Moyes this season (though I think you will, unfortunately). You don't think we'll finish 4th and that's fair enough, I think we will.
 
I will be very annoyed if spurs last the distance. A team so awful shouldn't have the number of points they do.

They have negative goal difference, ffs.
 
BarneyLFC said:
They said he had no vision... They said he was selfish...
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Very good assist, no doubt.

Liverpool also say they never get any decisions from the referee, so Skrtel shouldn't have had a penalty against (which he should pretty much every match), Sterling didn't handball and go down as easily as Ashley Young?
 
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