It's funny watching this vid now, he warned us 8 months ago, he's clearly pissed off with the films.
My tinfoil hat reckons they fired him and cgi'd his 'force-death/suicide' in last minute, now he's in full suck-up mode.
It was boring for me, and I wanted more Luke and Rey teaching-time when it was casino-time.Why did people hate the casino subplot so much? I thought it was good.
Why did people hate the casino subplot so much? I thought it was good.
Having this elaborate subplot that ultimately didn't result in anything was one of the many subversions that made film so good and appreciated by people who merely look at the craftsmanship of the film, not how the film relates to the other ones in the universe. I'm glad that they didn't play out the Rey and Luke story in a conventional master and pupil way, they didn't really need more time together.It was boring for me, and I wanted more Luke and Rey teaching-time when it was casino-time.
Why did people hate the casino subplot so much? I thought it was good.
Not sure what the last parts about? I'm happy with the actor playing Rose, but think slight adjustments in the writing would make her a better/more relatable character. I simply wanted more stuff between Luke & Rey and going from what I wanted there to the casino part is as much of a negative for me as any other scene not involving something grander would. If it was a switch between Snoke training Ren and Luke training Rey with the casino stuff moves to a different time I'd probably be fine with the casino planet. Subjective reasoning to not like it, but that's what I commented on.Having this elaborate subplot that ultimately didn't result in anything was one of the many subversions that made film so good and appreciated by people who merely look at the craftsmanship of the film, not how the film relates to the other ones in the universe. I'm glad that they didn't play out the Rey and Luke story in a conventional master and pupil way, they didn't really need more time together.
I liked Rose too, but I guess it was always gonna be hard for a pudgy Asian girl to make an impression on some people.
Having this elaborate subplot that ultimately didn't result in anything was one of the many subversions that made film so good and appreciated by people who merely look at the craftsmanship of the film, not how the film relates to the other ones in the universe. I'm glad that they didn't play out the Rey and Luke story in a conventional master and pupil way, they didn't really need more time together.
I liked Rose too, but I guess it was always gonna be hard for a pudgy Asian girl to make an impression on some people.
Oh, probably? Where did you get that from? I mean, if you're going to complain about a lack of actual criticism, surely you're able to back up this sort of accusation.Just like the fans it's the same boohoo they did this with this character and so forth. I would like to hear some actual criticism, if you have no sentimentality for these characters it means nothing. Hamill's just probably disappointed that he can't hog all the spotlight and that his character isn't infallible.
Nice design of the casino town, didn't just barge in but got caught for parking on a private beach, found a code breaker not the code breaker, the animals running riot in town was nicely done. It also helped to set the political tone of the film.Can you explain what was good about it?
Can you explain what was good about it?
Why did people hate the casino subplot so much? I thought it was good.
Nice design of the casino town, didn't just barge in but got caught for parking on a private beach, found a code breaker not the code breaker, the animals running riot in town was nicely done. It also helped to set the political tone of the film.
All in all a very nice, enthralling digression.
Can you explain what was good about it?
You mean like Holdo did, which people started moaning about because "it should've been Ackbar!"?The Finn and Rose subplot might've worked if Rose killed herself to save the others at the end. Then you give her an actual role in the story, you make the parallel with the sister that died for the common cause at the beginning of the film, you instantly give another layer (a second one) to Finn's character and some actual development, as well as a basis for further growth - she taught him about slavery and socialism and animal rights etc., so you build on that. The audience also actually connects and identifies with the Resistance on an emotional level, not just because the exposition made them the "good guys" and the writing makes their opposition the obvious (comically) "bad guys".
Instead they decided to go for the romance without any previous hint that there's any romantic element to their relationship. Or any chemistry between the characters, really.
Sort of. But she had no real connection to the other characters, so nobody cares about her death. She was also being a smug bitch for no reason at all for half the movie, so I wasn't sorry seeing her go.You mean like Holdo did, which people started moaning about because "it should've been Ackbar!"?
Sort of. But she had no real connection to the other characters, so nobody cares about her death. She was also being a smug bitch for no reason at all for half the movie, so I wasn't sorry seeing her go.
She was definitely smug though. The "I know your type" conversation with the pilot was overflowing with smugness.She wasn't smug, there was obviously an inner circle that knew the plan. She also knew the plan needed to be kept away from Poh because of his impulsive record. The audience were watching the plan unravel from his eyes.
I liked Rose too, but I guess it was always gonna be hard for a pudgy Asian girl to make an impression on some people.
Hamill isn't disappointed though and he's been constantly saying that since release because his words have been taken out of context.Just like the fans it's the same boohoo they did this with this character and so forth. I would like to hear some actual criticism, if you have no sentimentality for these characters it means nothing. Hamill's just probably disappointed that he can't hog all the spotlight and that his character isn't infallible.
She was definitely smug though. The "I know your type" conversation with the pilot was overflowing with smugness.
Edit:
1) Luke's character has been butchered.
2) Rey Sue. Everyone in Star Wars, be movies or books need training. Everyone bar her, of course.
3) The fact that it makes the old Trilogy irrelevant. The weak rebels fight against all odds against the big evil Empire and somehow win. 40 years later, the weak rebels are fighting against the big evil Empire.
Just like the fans it's the same boohoo they did this with this character and so forth. I would like to hear some actual criticism, if you have no sentimentality for these characters it means nothing. Hamill's just probably disappointed that he can't hog all the spotlight and that his character isn't infallible.
I also think it's not exactly unrealistic, given global events in the 20th century, that a defeated party in a massive war comes back decades later with even more firepower. I don't agree that it becomes irrelevant either - the time of this trilogy would just have an Empire with probably dozens of death stars, Vader being a dick as Emperor and no rebellion or jedi left against it.The thing about the new ones rendering the OT irrelevant plot-wise is kind of true, but the problem is that was a natural consequence of making a new series of films when there didn't need to be any more. ROTJ obviously ended happily and with all the heroes in a good place...but the problem is that any new film was always going to require conflict, and that inherently meant making the lives of the main heroes post-ROTJ a little bit shit and miserable.
Obviously they could've approached it differently. Not making the First Order a clone copy of the Empire would've probably helped, but even then in a by-the-numbers action movie series you're inevitably going to veer into the same territory as you did before when following the whole trilogy format. Which (again) means following certain dramatic conventions which will result in plot movements that render old ones obsolete. Irrespective of whether it was handled better or not it's just something which would've probably always happened when following on from a trilogy that had a nice enough ending.
I also think it's not exactly unrealistic, given global events in the 20th century, that a defeated party in a massive war comes back decades later with even more firepower. I don't agree that it becomes irrelevant either - the time of this trilogy would just have an Empire with probably dozens of death stars, Vader being a dick as Emperor and no rebellion or jedi left against it.
Also worth remembering that the end of RotJ, as Kasdan originally wrote it, was supposed to be far more bittersweet before it was changed to be that carnival thing. I know Star Wars is really a fairy tale in space but still, "happily ever after" doesn't really fit it.
I'm not sure. I think there's a lot of ways they could've taken the power balance besides literally copying the first trilogy. I think a lot of people wanted/were expecting the new republic to be in power and more at the forefront, maybe challenged by smaller bands of the old empire, and Luke to be training lots of new Jedi. Instead we got what we've seen before. Powerful Empire vs poor rebels and the almost extinct Jedi forced into exile and sought out by the last hope. It's no wonder that people aren't pleased, we've seen that story. That's why I think a lot of people make the point of the OT being rendered pointless, because we're literally back at the New Hope starting position. But if you're not happy with that then you're apparently just "overthinking Star Wars".True, and I'd have probably preferred that as the ending considering Luke in ROTJ does come across as someone damaged to an extent...but at the same time I do think people saying that it renders the original happy ending irrelevant are kind of missing the point that any film in which the story continued on from those events was always going to do that to an extent.
Disagree. If you read the Thrawn Trilogy, you see that it was possible to make a villain who had much less resources than the Republic and still was able to cause them problems.True, and I'd have probably preferred that as the ending considering Luke in ROTJ does come across as someone damaged to an extent...but at the same time I do think people saying that it renders the original happy ending irrelevant are kind of missing the point that any film in which the story continued on from those events was always going to do that to an extent.
Of course it was for the twist. That's what the complaint is.Yeah because his type is impulsive.
Besides, it was just setting the audience up for a twist. I feel like people over analyse star wars too much.
I'm not sure. I think there's a lot of ways they could've taken the power balance besides literally copying the first trilogy. I think a lot of people wanted/were expecting the new republic to be in power and more at the forefront, maybe challenged by smaller bands of the old empire, and Luke to be training lots of new Jedi. Instead we got what we've seen before. Powerful Empire vs poor rebels and the almost extinct Jedi forced into exile and sought out by the last hope. It's no wonder that people aren't pleased, we've seen that story. That's why I think a lot of people make the point of the OT being rendered pointless, because we're literally back at the New Hope starting position. But if you're not happy with that then you're apparently just "overthinking Star Wars".
Complained about all those points back then, and disliked that movie almost as much as this one.Why complain about the plot invalidating previous trilogy now? It was TFA which did that when First order magically popped up to take the place of empire and have upper hand over the rebels..who should not have been rebels at that point anyway! No one complained then because they were too busy jerking off to nostalgia porn. Rey already defeated Kylo without any training in TFA or not and showed that he could match or outmatch him when it come to using the force. Luke turning into a recluse instead of helping out his sister against First order (even when they destroyed a whole planet) was a choice already made clear in TFA too. There were already countless plot holes and poor story decisions in TFA.