Film Star Wars: Episode VIII

[The Hilton]

I thought it was ok.
It's not the best Star Wars film, but it's far from the worst!
All the people moaning about Rey having no training make me laugh. In the original trilogy, Luke had a few hours worth on the way to the death star and then manages to make an impossible shot into the exhaust port. Then he cocked about with Yoda for a couple of weeks lifting rocks and jogging through the woods, leaves without completing the training and still managed to ultimately beat Vader.

The only silly bit for me was the Princess Leia floating in space bit. It took me right out of the film because it was so stupid.

Luke actually had a lifetime of making similar shots on rats back in the desert. He cocked about lifting rocks to go and get his hand chopped off, it took him 3 films to get close to matching the bad guys.

In this, Rey has already bested Ren and Luke, there's nobody left who's a threat to her, and there's still an entire film left to plagiarise.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

They're pissed because their lore has been destroyed by Disney and now Disney are taking the piss out of them with narrative hints (in Ep7) that lead nowhere. Thus the theories they created for the last two years were all null and void.

I find that quite pathetic hence why calling them nerds is appropriate. The film makers, writers directors etc decide the storyline not some uber fans writing fan fiction and spending their days trying to prove their theories like why jar jar binks is a jedi.

I for one thought the twists were not too obvious and different stories came together nicely at the ending.

 

[Untied]

I’m not really following your analogies and I’m already repeating myself a bunch so I think it’s best we agree to disagree. My final point will be to ask you if you can think of any series of movies that didn’t involve comic books or sci fi fantasy universes where people decided that one of these movies was a crap movie because a character didn’t behave the way people wanted/expected him/her to behave? Maybe one of the Godfather films? Or, I dunno, Die Hard?

Because, from the outside looking in, this sort of thing seems to be unique to this genre and it’s got nothing to do with legitimate movie criticism. It’s something else entirely.

Some of the defences the Last Jedi really want to have their cake and eat it.

You can’t judge it as a stand-alone film. It is just impossible. The story is utter nonsense divorced from its context within the saga.

But when those who didn’t like how it coheres with the rest of the saga, particularly the characterisation of Luke, and it’s abandonment of the threads from TFA, the suggestion is we treat it like a standalone film?

I think it is clear how wrong you are that you think the prequels “appeased fanboys”

 

[Zarlak]

Luke actually had a lifetime of making similar shots on rats back in the desert. He cocked about lifting rocks to go and get his hand chopped off, it took him 3 films to get close to matching the bad guys.

In this, Rey has already bested Ren and Luke, there's nobody left who's a threat to her, and there's still an entire film left to plagiarise.

Similar shots? I don't think he bent many blaster shots at 90 degree angles to hit a rat a mile below the surface when he was chilling in the desert. Or flew many X-Wings down there either.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I feel a lot of Star Wars fans take that universe way too seriously. Ultimately it's a bunch of kid films with childish concepts and very little subtlety, but still fun at times. I liked that this one didnt try to be too high brow, just went for pure entertainment.

 

[Member 39557]

Luke actually had a lifetime of making similar shots on rats back in the desert. He cocked about lifting rocks to go and get his hand chopped off, it took him 3 films to get close to matching the bad guys.

In this, Rey has already bested Ren and Luke, there's nobody left who's a threat to her, and there's still an entire film left to plagiarise.

Ren was an emotional wreck from killing his dad, and he was injured from a bowcaster shot when they first fought. He didn't really want to hurt her when they had a lightsaber tug of war in the second film.
Luke said she had incredible power that he'd only seen with Ren before, so he helps to explain how she's able to hold her own against a damaged trained person.

When she "bested" Luke, he wasn't even trying. He'd been detached from the force purposefully, just fighting with sticks. We know she's an accomplished stick fighter from the first film and she used the force to get the sabre, something Luke could have easily done if he'd needed to. He demonstrates his true power by force projecting himself across the galaxy later in the film.

Ren will be a suitable match for her in the next film if they choose that direction.

Don't forget, this is a universe where a kid took down a trade federation blockade by pressing random buttons on a space ship.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I thought it was ok.
It's not the best Star Wars film, but it's far from the worst!
All the people moaning about Rey having no training make me laugh. In the original trilogy, Luke had a few hours worth on the way to the death star and then manages to make an impossible shot into the exhaust port. Then he cocked about with Yoda for a couple of weeks lifting rocks and jogging through the woods, leaves without completing the training and still managed to ultimately beat Vader.

The only silly bit for me was the Princess Leia floating in space bit. It took me right out of the film because it was so stupid.

Not to pick on your post but, Luke got his ass handed to him by a random sandpeople(person?), then got his ass handed to him by 2 thugs in a cantina, was about to get his ass shot down by Vader in the trench run only to be saved by Han.

All he does in that film thats extra heroic is basically close his eyes and for the first time reach out to the force to help him take that one shot.

Then in the 2nd film, he gets his ass handed to him by a random wompa, nearly freezes to death without help, goes to training, but leaves early and resulting in getting his ass handed to him by Vader yet again, who toy's with him, cuts his hand off and leaves him perilously close to death.

It's only the 3rd film, where he's reached a point that he can do mind tricks and force chokes.

Ray on the other hand fixes the Falcon more competently than its long term owner Han Solo, then proceeds to pilot it better than Han, starts doing jedi mind tricks despite not knowing the force existed a few hours before???. Then defeats a (semi?) trained sith force user the literal first time she picks up a light saber all this at the end of the first film.

Obviously someone is going to come back and say hue hue over-analysing it all hue hue, but the two characters are wooooorlds apart in how they're depicted IMO.

Also, did I just see Disney put in a message on the casino planets about the 1% being evil? Disney are going to lecture me about the evils of capitalism, Disney, the company going around buying up a monopoly in Hollywood.
This film irritated me on so many levels.

 

[Revan]

I thought it was ok.
It's not the best Star Wars film, but it's far from the worst!
All the people moaning about Rey having no training make me laugh. In the original trilogy, Luke had a few hours worth on the way to the death star and then manages to make an impossible shot into the exhaust port. Then he cocked about with Yoda for a couple of weeks lifting rocks and jogging through the woods, leaves without completing the training and still managed to ultimately beat Vader.

The only silly bit for me was the Princess Leia floating in space bit. It took me right out of the film because it was so stupid.

In A New Hope, Luke already was a great pilot, even before the training with Obi-Wan. I also think that it was a few days of travelling, but not sure.

He has circa 6 months of training with Yoda when he leaves (and two years in between the movies while he is using the Force) and still gets destroyed by Vader. When he ultimately defeats Vader in Return of the Jedi, he has been using the Force for 4.5 years. Rey instead was using the Force for 4.5 minutes before she defeats Ren, and for a day before she kills a bunch of guards and uses telekinesis on those big rocks (remember Luke initially failing to do so in Empire).

 

[Zarlak]

Not to pick on your post but, Luke got his ass handed to him by a random sandpeople(person?), then got his ass handed to him by 2 thugs in a cantina, was about to get his ass shot down by Vader in the trench run only to be saved by Han.

All he does in that film thats extra heroic is basically close his eyes and for the first time reach out to the force to help him take that one shot.

Then in the 2nd film, he gets his ass handed to him by a random wompa, nearly freezes to death without help, goes to training, but leaves early and resulting in getting his ass handed to him by Vader yet again, who toy's with him, cuts his hand off and leaves him perilously close to death.

It's only the 3rd film, where he's reached a point that he can do mind tricks and force chokes.

Ray on the other hand fixes the Falcon more competently than its long term owner Han Solo, then proceeds to pilot it better than Han, starts doing jedi mind tricks despite not knowing the force existed a few hours before???. Then defeats a (semi?) trained sith force user the literal first time she picks up a light saber all this at the end of the first film.

Obviously someone is going to come back and say hue hue over-analysing it all hue hue, but the two characters are wooooorlds apart in how they're depicted IMO.

Also, did I just see Disney put in a message on the casino planets about the 1% being evil? Disney are going to lecture me about the evils of capitalism, Disney, the company going around buying up a monopoly in Hollywood.
This film irritated me on so many levels.

You went from objective to completely biased in one post. Rey does not defeat a semi trained sith force user the literal first time she picks up a light saber at all. At all, that simply isn't what happened. She got her ass handed to her, and would have been killed had Ren not stopped himself and pleaded with her to join the dark side. She then had the same thing happen that Luke did that you've downplayed which is to 'close her eyes and reach out to the force to help her do one thing' so if you're making it out to be not a big deal for Luke then you have to do the same for Rey.

Also you can't neglect, that Luke went from being a farmer, to a trained X-Wing pilot competent in military strikes, tactics, manoeuvres, and attacking with no training whatsoever, before making his impossible shot. If you're going to pull Rey up on that with the Falcon then you have to do the same thing for Luke. They're not worlds apart at all, they're essentially the same.

 

[Revan]

I feel a lot of Star Wars fans take that universe way too seriously. Ultimately it's a bunch of kid films with childish concepts and very little subtlety, but still fun at times. I liked that this one didnt try to be too high brow, just went for pure entertainment.

This is said repeatedly, but in all the three recent movies, the cinema when I went was full of adults with just a few kids. It is hardly Harry Potter when you have just kids and their parents.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

In A New Hope, Luke already was a great pilot, even before the training with Obi-Wan. I also think that it was a few days of travelling, but not sure.

He has circa 6 months of training with Yoda when he leaves (and two years in between the movies while he is using the Force) and still gets destroyed by Vader. When he ultimately defeats Vader in Return of the Jedi, he has been using the Force for 4.5 years. Rey instead was using the Force for 4.5 minutes before she defeats Ren, and for a day before she kills a bunch of guards and uses telekinesis on those big rocks (remember Luke initially failing to do so in Empire).

OMG a fictional storyline spanning over 4 decades not making perfect sense shocker.

 

[BennyBlanco]

You went from objective to completely biased in one post. Rey does not defeat a semi trained sith force user the literal first time she picks up a light saber at all. At all, that simply isn't what happened. She got her ass handed to her, and would have been killed had Ren not stopped himself and pleaded with her to join the dark side. She then had the same thing happen that Luke did that you've downplayed which is to 'close her eyes and reach out to the force to help her do one thing' so if you're making it out to be not a big deal for Luke then you have to do the same for Rey.

Also you can't neglect, that Luke went from being a farmer, to a trained X-Wing pilot competent in military strikes, tactics, manoeuvres, and attacking with no training whatsoever, before making his impossible shot. If you're going to pull Rey up on that with the Falcon then you have to do the same thing for Luke. They're not worlds apart at all, they're essentially the same.

The only special positive trait Luke has beyond farm boy level is in the first film Ben foreshadowing the fighter pilot bit by saying "I hear you've become quite the pilot yourself".
Luke has one special quality, compared to Ray good at everything. He also had Skywalker blood but lets not go down that dark, dark alley shall we.

Anyway it still doesn't explain TFA & Ray from breaking 6 established films canon by just randomly start doing Jedi mind tricks out of the blue.
I could go further on Rays character vs Lukes by the way, so many shit fanfiction god awful stories have their hero an abandoned orphan, it's so dull. Which is exactly what Ray is, fending off the worldddd, yawn, while Luke is basically a momma's (aunts) boy, doing chores around the farm.
Essentially the same, laughable but okay.

 

[Revan]

Don't forget, this is a universe where a kid took down a trade federation blockade by pressing random buttons on a space ship.

The kid was special though, chosen one and all that bullshit. He also had just won a Galactic race in that movie, so he clearly was a great pilot. And more importantly, everyone (including me) thought that movie was crap, so 'hey it happened in a crap movie, so why it can't happen in this 'brilliant' movie' is hardly a good excuse.

 

[Member 39557]

Not to pick on your post but, Luke got his ass handed to him by a random sandpeople(person?), then got his ass handed to him by 2 thugs in a cantina, was about to get his ass shot down by Vader in the trench run only to be saved by Han.

All he does in that film thats extra heroic is basically close his eyes and for the first time reach out to the force to help him take that one shot.

Then in the 2nd film, he gets his ass handed to him by a random wompa, nearly freezes to death without help, goes to training, but leaves early and resulting in getting his ass handed to him by Vader yet again, who toy's with him, cuts his hand off and leaves him perilously close to death.

It's only the 3rd film, where he's reached a point that he can do mind tricks and force chokes.

Ray on the other hand fixes the Falcon more competently than its long term owner Han Solo, then proceeds to pilot it better than Han, starts doing jedi mind tricks despite not knowing the force existed a few hours before???. Then defeats a (semi?) trained sith force user the literal first time she picks up a light saber all this at the end of the first film.

Obviously someone is going to come back and say hue hue over-analysing it all hue hue, but the two characters are wooooorlds apart in how they're depicted IMO.

Also, did I just see Disney put in a message on the casino planets about the 1% being evil? Disney are going to lecture me about the evils of capitalism, Disney, the company going around buying up a monopoly in Hollywood.
This film irritated me on so many levels.

Pick on my post as much as you want. I was just laughing about the Rey being powerful with no training and pointed out that Luke was in a similar position. Obviously all the fans that take these films very seriously will be able to nitpick all the differences out, but it's not really that great a leap for me to see an untrained (and very powerful according to Luke) Rey matching an apprentice vs a semi trained Luke matching the legendary Vader.

There are far worse lliberties taken in most recent blockbuster films, unfortunately action sequences and spectacle have increasingly replaced character development and story in the order of importance in hollywood blockbusters.

I used to love Star Wars, as my generation grew up when the original trilogy was still fresh. I even read and enjoyed the Thrawn books. I learned to let go after the quite frankly awful prequels.

 

[Ubik]

The kid was special though, chosen one and all that bullshit. He also had just won a Galactic race in that movie, so he clearly was a great pilot. And more importantly, everyone (including me) thought that movie was crap, so 'hey it happened in a crap movie, so why it can't happen in this 'brilliant' movie' is hardly a good excuse.

You literally said just yesterday its plot was good. The blowing up of the station by pressing random buttons was one of the major plot points at the end of act three And for some reason you responded with Donnie Darko.

"Let's try spinning, that's a good trick!"

 

[Revan]

Pick on my post as much as you want. I was just laughing about the Rey being powerful with no training and pointed out that Luke was in a similar position. Obviously all the fans that take these films very seriously will be able to nitpick all the differences out, but it's not really that great a leap for me to see an untrained (and very powerful according to Luke) Rey matching an apprentice vs a semi trained Luke matching the legendary Vader.

There are far worse lliberties taken in most recent blockbuster films, unfortunately action sequences and spectacle have increasingly replaced character development and story in the order of importance in hollywood blockbusters.

I used to love Star Wars, as my generation grew up when the original trilogy was still fresh. I even read and enjoyed the Thrawn books. I learned to let go after the quite frankly awful prequels.

But he didn't. He got totally destroyed and his hand got chopped.

When he defeated Vader, he had completed his training and he was a Jedi Knight.

 

[Member 39557]

In A New Hope, Luke already was a great pilot, even before the training with Obi-Wan. I also think that it was a few days of travelling, but not sure.

He has circa 6 months of training with Yoda when he leaves (and two years in between the movies while he is using the Force) and still gets destroyed by Vader. When he ultimately defeats Vader in Return of the Jedi, he has been using the Force for 4.5 years. Rey instead was using the Force for 4.5 minutes before she defeats Ren, and for a day before she kills a bunch of guards and uses telekinesis on those big rocks (remember Luke initially failing to do so in Empire).

The kid was special though, chosen one and all that bullshit. He also had just won a Galactic race in that movie, so he clearly was a great pilot. And more importantly, everyone (including me) thought that movie was crap, so 'hey it happened in a crap movie, so why it can't happen in this 'brilliant' movie' is hardly a good excuse.

Can't have it both ways mate.

 

[Member 39557]

But he didn't. He got totally destroyed and his hand got chopped.

When he defeated Vader, he had completed his training and he was a Jedi Knight.

I meant semi trained in ROTJ. I know he had supposedly completed the training, but can you compare his training with Annakins, or any Jedi's in the past? Not really.

 

[Revan]

You literally said just yesterday its plot was good. The blowing up of the station by pressing random buttons was one of the major plot points at the end of act three And for some reason you responded with Donnie Darko.

"Let's try spinning, that's a good trick!"

I said that you could write in a sarcastic one-liner the plot of every movie including for movies with complicated plots like Donnie Darko.

The Phantom Menace (taking only the plot in consideration) was miles better than this. It had ridiculous things like 'little Ani' destroying a ship while pressing random buttons, or Queen itself with 5 guards taking the charge of a planet, but for most parts, things were coherent. Finding Anakin, Qui-Gon/Kenobi vs Maul, the rise of Palpatine with some okayish politics in between, it was a perfectly decent plot. Obviously, when you add to that shit dialogue, even worse humor, bad acting, 'yipes' and Jar Jar fecking Binks in the end it makes it a totally unacceptable movie.

Here, the plot from beginning to the end made no fecking sense, and it isn't coherent with the other part of the Star Wars lore (even if you consider just the movies).

 

[Revan]

I meant semi trained in ROTJ. I know he had supposedly completed the training, but can you compare his training with Annakins, or any Jedi's in the past? Not really.

According to Yoda, he is a Jedi Knight. Some people learn faster than others, a Padawan might be stronger than a Jedi Master. We saw a Padawan Kenobi defeating Maul, where most likely only Yoda and Windu from the order would have been able to do so.

But the key thing, is the word 'learn'. Some learn faster, some slower, some are powerful some aren't. Unless you are Rey in which case, you don't need to learn at all, and are as powerful as anyone (bar the shit Emperor).

Also, we need to talk about the shit Emperor. Say what you want about Palpatine, he was great both in OT and in prequels. Snoke on the other side...the less we talk the better, but for whatever reasons no-one is criticizing the new movies about that part.

 

[Ubik]

I said that you could write in a sarcastic one-liner the plot of every movie.

The Phantom Menace (taking only the plot in consideration) was miles better than this. It had ridiculous things like 'little Ani' destroying a ship while pressing random buttons, or Queen itself with 5 guards taking the charge of a planet, but for most parts, things were coherent. Finding Anakin, Qui-Gon/Kenobi vs Maul, the rise of Palpatine with some okayish politics in between, it was a perfectly decent plot. Obviously, when you add to that shit dialogue, even worse humor, bad acting, 'yipes' and Jar Jar fecking Binks in the end it makes it a totally unacceptable movie.

Here, the plot from beginning to the end made no fecking sense, and it isn't coherent with the other part of the Star Wars lore (even if you consider just the movies).

It's about a trade dispute around taxes But sure, this one isn't the "real Star Wars film".

 

[Zarlak]

Sorry Revan, but here you're just showing an enormous bias. You're not being objective whatsoever. The Phantom Menace was complete garbage compared to this film. The plot from beginning to end made complete sense. You might not have liked it, but it made sense. First order pursuing rebels, rebel sacrifices themself to save the rest, Ren shows more doubt about dark side, but then solidifies and goes it alone, Luke reconciles with the force, gets closure, sacrifices himself and Rey advances her training. We let go of the old, and we move forward with the new. That's the plot, and it makes sense. You may not like bits of the film, but that's the plot and that plot makes complete sense. The Phantom Menace as a film was complete garbage. Everything we've seen from the new films is perfectly in line with the old films which were just as ridiculous, only we overlooked the gaping plot holes because we were children.

 

[kps88]

Never thought I'd see people defending the plot and politics in Phantom Menace.

 

[Member 39557]

According to Yoda, he is a Jedi Knight. Some people learn faster than others, a Padawan might be stronger than a Jedi Master. We saw a Padawan Kenobi defeating Maul, where most likely only Yoda and Windu from the order would have been able to do so.

But the key thing, is the word 'learn'. Some learn faster, some slower, some are powerful some aren't. Unless you are Rey in which case, you don't need to learn at all, and are as powerful as anyone (bar the shit Emperor).

Also, we need to talk about the shit Emperor. Say what you want about Palpatine, he was great both in OT and in prequels. Snoke on the other side...the less we talk the better, but for whatever reasons no-one is criticizing the new movies about that part.

You're reaching there mate.

Your main point previously was that Luke got smashed by Vader with a few months training vs Rey matching Ren with none. Then you go on to point out that Vader was the chosen one, which would very well explain why he was harder to match than the emotionally crippled and injured Ren.
I point out that Luke had barely any training compared to Vader and now you come out with some stuff about people learning at different rates etc. Come on. Vader was trained from a little boy until he was a young adult under the tutelage of Ben Kenobi and the Jedi Council. Luke had a few months with an old isolated Yoda and a couple of years on his own. Hardly comparable really is it?

You also damage your own point about Rey when you talk about padawan's being stronger than masters.

I agree that they've glossed over things a bit, but it's hardly that much of an issue as it's not a million miles away from Luke. The more pressing issue for me is the 1% rubbish, Luke randomly milking that animal and smacking his lips like an old perv, and the floating space Leia.

 

[Revan]

It's about a trade dispute around taxes But sure, this one isn't the "real Star Wars film".

Not really. It is about an engineered invasion of a planet, in order to give power to Palpatine.

Sorry Revan, but here you're just showing an enormous bias. You're not being objective whatsoever. The Phantom Menace was complete garbage compared to this film. The plot from beginning to end made complete sense. You might not have liked it, but it made sense. First order pursuing rebels, rebel sacrifices themself to save the rest, Ren shows more doubt about dark side, but then solidifies and goes it alone, Luke reconciles with the force, gets closure, sacrifices himself and Rey advances her training. We let go of the old, and we move forward with the new. That's the plot, and it makes sense. You may not like bits of the film, but that's the plot and that plot makes complete sense. The Phantom Menace as a film was complete garbage. Everything we've seen from the new films is perfectly in line with the old films which were just as ridiculous, only we overlooked the gaping plot holes because we were children.

Agree to disagree and probably best to leave it here cause it isn't going nowhere.

I understand that there are people who love it, good for them. There are also a lot of people who hated/disliked it, as shown by some posters here, terrible user rating in RT and from a lot of people I knew in real life.

It could have been much much better.

Last thing, did you watched that review video posted here. Bar some nitpicking (like why the bombs fall where there was no gravity), I thought it was a good review (in an annoying way, obviously).

 

[BennyBlanco]

You went from objective to completely biased in one post. Rey does not defeat a semi trained sith force user the literal first time she picks up a light saber at all. At all, that simply isn't what happened. She got her ass handed to her, and would have been killed had Ren not stopped himself and pleaded with her to join the dark side. She then had the same thing happen that Luke did that you've downplayed which is to 'close her eyes and reach out to the force to help her do one thing' so if you're making it out to be not a big deal for Luke then you have to do the same for Rey.

Also you can't neglect, that Luke went from being a farmer, to a trained X-Wing pilot competent in military strikes, tactics, manoeuvres, and attacking with no training whatsoever, before making his impossible shot. If you're going to pull Rey up on that with the Falcon then you have to do the same thing for Luke. They're not worlds apart at all, they're essentially the same.

I apologise for the tone of the last post to you, what I'm trying to say is Luke had fragility, even if you say Luke had Mary Sue moments as you say and to some extent you're right, just not nearly as many as Reys.
What Luke's character had in addition was the added quality of fragility. You know the phrase " A winner is just a loser who got back up."
We saw him try, fail and persevere on his journey, that I think is why he's so deeply adored a character in the franchise compared to Rey.

 

[Cooksen]

I genuinely don't mean to be harsh on @Revan (who I generally really like as a poster) but the idea that TLJ is as bad as the Star Wars prequels is one of the single worst film opinions I've seen on this site. In terms of the most basic fundamentals of filmmaking it's utterly, utterly wrong.

In terms of film making TLJ was better then the prequels but the Prequels are better star wars movies imo.

Watching the TLJ felt like a marvel movie with star wars charcters tbh.

 

[Revan]

You're reaching there mate.

Your main point previously was that Luke got smashed by Vader with a few months training vs Rey matching Ren with none. Then you go on to point out that Vader was the chosen one, which would very well explain why he was harder to match than the emotionally crippled and injured Ren.
I point out that Luke had barely any training compared to Vader and now you come out with some stuff about people learning at different rates etc. Come on. Vader was trained from a little boy until he was a young adult under the tutelage of Ben Kenobi and the Jedi Council. Luke had a few months with an old isolated Yoda and a couple of years on his own. Hardly comparable really is it?

You also damage your own point about Rey when you talk about padawan's being stronger than masters.

Why? I think that there is difference to having some training, and having none. There is also absolutely true that people learn at different rate, you see people whom within a few months become better than experienced people in all fields. You hardly see someone becoming the best within a day in anything.

I agree that they've glossed over things a bit, but it's hardly that much of an issue as it's not a million miles away from Luke. The more pressing issue for me is the 1% rubbish, Luke randomly milking that animal and smacking his lips like an old perv, and the floating space Leia.

Didn't have much problem with Leia, while Luke's scene was stupid, but we have had these types of scenes all the time. Not only in prequels, but even in OT, you have the stupid dancing in Jabba's palace etc, which serve no purpose but directors thought that it is a good idea to put them there.

 

[Revan]

Watching the TLJ felt like a marvel movie with star wars charcters tbh.

It was so much more Guardians of the Galaxy than Star Wars.

 

[Ubik]

Not really. It is about an engineered invasion of a planet, in order to give power to Palpatine.

Because of a trade dispute about taxes! It's the most boring stuff you've ever seen, aside from the other two.

Also, you mentioned earlier Luke was with Yoda for six months - where's that from?

 

[Revan]

Because of a trade dispute about taxes! It's the most boring stuff you've ever seen, aside from the other two.

Also, you mentioned earlier Luke was with Yoda for six months - where's that from?

Have you actually watched the movie, or it is just cool to criticize it?

The entire plot of the first movie, was about Palpatine manipulating The Trade Federation to invade Naboo, manipulating Padme (whom in EU he has made Queen in the first place) to call a vote of confidence in the current chancellor, and manipulating the senators to choose him as Supreme Chancellor. Essentially, create the ground to get elected, engineer a war and get elected by being from the same planet when the war happened.

This was half of the plot (the other was the discovery of Anakin) which was perfectly fine. Or it would have been perfectly fine, if it wasn't polluted with bad humor, Jar Jar Binks and terrible CGI who speak with Asian accent.

 

[The Hilton]

Similar shots? I don't think he bent many blaster shots at 90 degree angles to hit a rat a mile below the surface when he was chilling in the desert. Or flew many X-Wings down there either.

Come on dude, if you can't see the false equivalence it's because you don't want to. Luke's entire thing in the first film is being a very gifted pilot and an excellent shot, it's not a stretch to go from a Ford Fiesta to a Vauxhall Astra.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

This is said repeatedly, but in all the three recent movies, the cinema when I went was full of adults with just a few kids. It is hardly Harry Potter when you have just kids and their parents.

Loads of kids when I've been. Mix of both (which is expected and what they're aiming for).

 

[Ubik]

Have you actually watched the movie, or it is just cool to criticize it?

The entire plot of the first movie, was about Palpatine manipulating The Trade Federation to invade Naboo, manipulating Padme (whom in EU he has made Queen in the first place) to call a vote of confidence in the current chancellor, and manipulating the senators to choose him as Supreme Chancellor. Essentially, create the ground to get elected, engineer a war and get elected by being from the same planet when the war happened.

This was half of the plot (the other was the discovery of Anakin) which was perfectly fine. Or it would have been perfectly fine, if it wasn't polluted with bad humor, Jar Jar Binks and terrible CGI who speak with Asian accent.

I rewatched it a couple of weeks back. There's a hell of a lot of people sitting down delivering exposition about taxes, cross cut with pod-racing.

Also again, where's the Luke spent six months with Yoda from? Internet seems to think it's somewhere between a week and a month.

 

[Zarlak]

Didn't have much problem with Leia, while Luke's scene was stupid, but we have had these types of scenes all the time. Not only in prequels, but even in OT, you have the stupid dancing in Jabba's palace etc, which serve no purpose but directors thought that it is a good idea to put them there.

I don't know how you can have a problem with Rey but not have a problem with Leia flying through space with the force when she hasn't demonstrated the ability to do anything like that in any Star Wars canon. She's somewhat force sensitive and has been able to 'feel' things happening. She didn't show any force potential as a child, she never used the force she just feels when Luke calls out and Han dies, she then does something we've never seen before which is zoom through space like Superman when all canon we've seen so far is instant death when out in space. But yet she manages to reanimate herself and zoom back to the ship. Yet Rey barely staying alive against someone who was trying to hold their insides together is a problem.

 

[Cooksen]

It was so much more Guardians of the Galaxy than Star Wars.

Agreed.

The quips were out of place and the first Hux and Poe scene ruined the tension of the movie imo.

 

[Member 39557]

Why? I think that there is difference to having some training, and having none. There is also absolutely true that people learn at different rate, you see people whom within a few months become better than experienced people in all fields. You hardly see someone becoming the best within a day in anything.



Didn't have much problem with Leia, while Luke's scene was stupid, but we have had these types of scenes all the time. Not only in prequels, but even in OT, you have the stupid dancing in Jabba's palace etc, which serve no purpose but directors thought that it is a good idea to put them there.

I agree with your first point in principle, but in the context of these films and your argument it doesn't really work for me. Luke was more trained than Rey, but look at their opponents.

Vader is the chosen one, a force Jesus if you will. Ren is a skywalker, but he's emotionally broken and injured by being shot.
Vader had about 15 years of training under the Jedi Council and Ben kenobi. He then had at least Luke's entire lifetime up until they fought being trained by Palpatine as a sith.
Ren has a few years? under Luke, a person who himself has 6 month training under Yoda. He also has a few years? under Snoke who isn't really a Sith, so who knows how good he is?

Luke has 6 months training (although that's not really explained in the films). Rey has no training. Looking at the vast difference in quality of their opponents, I put it to you that it wasn't a great stretch to see how Rey would have faired ok in comparison to Luke.

The dancer in Jabba's palace (original film, not the added crap in the remixes) was set up to explain why Leia would be chained to him in her bikini and to demonstrate the trap door that luke would fall into wasn't it? It's been a few years since I've watched ROTJ.

Your earlier point about Snoke was reasonable, but I quite like the fact you didn't really learn much, then he died like a punk. It stopped the story migrating towards a similar ending to ROTJ.

 

[Zarlak]

Come on dude, if you can't see the false equivalence it's because you don't want to. Luke's entire thing in the first film is being a very gifted pilot and an excellent shot, it's not a stretch to go from a Ford Fiesta to a Vauxhall Astra.

You can't mention false equivalence and then give that example. He was a farmer, who became capable of flying an X-Wing as competently as fighter pilots who have presumably trained their entire lives to do so, before making an impossible shot to blow up the Death Star. There's nothing false about that at all, other than perhaps you don't like how dumb it actually sounds when it's put in its simplest form. The Fiesta to Astra analogy is laughable. It would be more like going from an Astra to a Sherman tank. And I doubt Dave from my estate can drive one of those, or drive in formation, or fire the weaponry, or show any kind of tactical or military prowess whatsoever, no matter how well he can rev his Astra round the streets. And I'm sure if you put the German equivalent of Darth Vader behind him in his own tank, that he's incredibly competent with and feared in, that Dave would be able to shrug him off before shelling his target successfully. If you can't see that, then it's because you don't want to. If you're telling me now that Captain Chesley Sullenberger who landed Flight 1549 in the Hudson river could pilot an F-16 fighter pilot in formation with the Air Force and go on a successful strike mission with them just because he can fly an air liner then I guess we're at an impasse. Luke has as much experience as the crop farmer did in Independence day, and that was just as ridiculous.

EDIT: That's actually a terrible example, because Chesley does have military experience. Replace him with any other standard pilot who works for an airline.

 

[RedSky]

Have you actually watched the movie, or it is just cool to criticize it?

The entire plot of the first movie, was about Palpatine manipulating The Trade Federation to invade Naboo, manipulating Padme (whom in EU he has made Queen in the first place) to call a vote of confidence in the current chancellor, and manipulating the senators to choose him as Supreme Chancellor. Essentially, create the ground to get elected, engineer a war and get elected by being from the same planet when the war happened.

This was half of the plot (the other was the discovery of Anakin) which was perfectly fine. Or it would have been perfectly fine, if it wasn't polluted with bad humor, Jar Jar Binks and terrible CGI who speak with Asian accent.

The film is legit terrible Revan, please don't defend that turd. It's ridiculed by everyone for a good reason.

I don't see the comparisons with GoTG tbh. Looking back at both films, they both include humour, but GoTG it's one of the key components to sell the film. It plays on nostalgia with old songs and uses witty dialogue. The only part of the TLJ that reminded me of GoTG was the terrible opening of TLJ with Poe doing that absurd shit. That annoyed me greatly and seemed totally out of place. Hopefully, they never, ever do that shit again. The rest of the TLJ humour was "cute" humour and while I thought they used too much of it, I didn't overly mind. Hard to come up with a comparison if i'm honest, felt a bit like Shrek humour at times actually.

Star Wars has always had humour, mainly to do with C3PO and R2D2 with the occasional witty line with Han/Chewy/Leia. Heck even the first time we meet Yoda is funny. Prequels humour was daft, childish shit with Jar Jar.

 

[RedSky]

You can't mention false equivalence and then give that example. He was a farmer, who became capable of flying an X-Wing as competently as fighter pilots who have presumably trained their entire lives to do so, before making an impossible shot to blow up the Death Star. There's nothing false about that at all, other than perhaps you don't like how dumb it actually sounds when it's put in its simplest form. The Fiesta to Astra analogy is laughable. It would be more like going from an Astra to a Sherman tank. And I doubt Dave from my estate can drive one of those, or drive in formation, or fire the weaponry, or show any kind of tactical or military prowess whatsoever, no matter how well he can rev his Astra round the streets. And I'm sure if you put the German equivalent of Darth Vader behind him in his own tank, that he's incredibly competent with and feared in, that Dave would be able to shrug him off before shelling his target successfully. If you can't see that, then it's because you don't want to.

We don't even know what Luke used to pilot either tbf (at least from the movies anyway, i'm sure there's been various book shit to fill the gaps). But switching from a vehicle like a land speeder which is the only vehicle we see Luke actually piloting to an XWing is a huge leap. Zero combat experience, zero experience of flying in space, no familiarity with the vehicle he was actually flying. Yet he is one of the few pilots to survive and is able to take down the Death Star and the explanation we got from him doing it? Obi Wan: "The force will be with you, always".

Someone said back in the thread and it's a point I agree with. Luke did have stumbling blocks, he was still over powered and did impossible shit but he did also need bailing out now and then. Rey's only ever needed help twice, once when she was captured and yet she managed to escape by herself and the other time when she was about to get killed by Snoke and Kylo switched sides briefly. It's kind of interesting in a way that the only time she's needed rescuing the villain was the one to do it. They probably should have given her more stumbling blocks in TFA, would have been easy enough for Chewy/Solo/Fin to rescue her when she was on the Death Star thing, but thats a fault with TFA and not TLJ.

If you look at what Rey did in this film:

- Mucked about with Luke, basic teaching, didn't really learn much at all. This was less about Rey and more about Luke.
- Confronted Kylo Ren and Snoke, had a fight, she got her ass kicked and survived only thanks to Kylo Ren.
- Goes down to the planet and moves some boulders with the Force, escapes on Falcon.

Not sure how anyone can moan about Rey in this film.