Film Star Wars: Episode VIII

[Ubik]

A small boy hides in a space fighter, presses random buttons, ends up blowing up a space station and stopping an army.

Decent story.

 

[Revan]

That can be done for every movie. Including Donnie Darko.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

I watched this today. It wasn’t wow but pleasant nonetheless. What were all the nerds complaining about on this one I haven’t gathered yet though.

 

[Minimalist]

That this film - all things considered - is as bad as the first two prequels. The plot is weaker, there are so many ridiculous things (or even plot-holes), and the humor is just as pathetic. The only thing that saves the movie is the cinematography.

I hope that this Guardians of the Galaxy in Star Wars universe ends. Or I am done with this universe.

Haha, you joker.

The idea that the plot could be weaker than the prequels is hysterical but to be fair even an equivalence puts you in happy pills territory.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I thought the overiding story arc of the prequels was theoretically good, it was mainly the execution of it was very, very poor.
Two different directors wanting to take this new trilogy in seperate directions so far this time, storywise, at least it seems that way.

Theres a ton of Star Wars fans myself included who think similar to Revan, it's not a particuarly outlandish opinion right now.

 

[RedSky]

I watched this today. It wasn’t wow but pleasant nonetheless. What were all the nerds complaining about on this one I haven’t gathered yet though.

They're pissed because their lore has been destroyed by Disney and now Disney are taking the piss out of them with narrative hints (in Ep7) that lead nowhere. Thus the theories they created for the last two years were all null and void.

 

[SuperiorXI]

They're pissed because their lore has been destroyed by Disney and now Disney are taking the piss out of them with narrative hints (in Ep7) that lead nowhere. Thus the theories they created for the last two years were all null and void.

IMO people who dislike this shouldn't be generalised in to the 'nerd' category. It is disliked because many believe it to be an outright terrible film, simple as.

 

[RedSky]

IMO people who dislike this shouldn't be generalised in to the 'nerd' category. It is disliked because many believe it to be an outright terrible film, simple as.

I quoted someone asking specifically what the nerds didn't like about the film. I gave him an answer.

 

[The Hilton]

I was actually expecting to like this, as I'd heard it wasn't the copy paste that 7 was. Unfortunately, the new things they brought in (not a great deal) were the weakest parts. Still, 1 or 2 new ideas is 1 or 2 more than the last film, so maybe by episode 20 there might actually be a new film to watch.

Also, it seems like they aimed this almost exclusively at kids, which is disappointing as Disney are usually pretty good at striking that balance, but this was so childish.

On top of that, it's entirely manufactured drama - the Republic has vanished and we're told to just buy it, and the main character has already proven herself stronger than the bad guy, twice now, and also managed to beat up Luke Skywalker, the supposed last hope of the galaxy, within a day or two of meeting him. She could fix everything and still get home for tea.

The most disappointing thing for me by far though is the total misuse of the old characters, which was epitomised by Yoda speaking full sentences to advance the plot. I don't think any of them have been handled faithfully.

In a word, meh.

 

[Bobski]

Catch the whole movie here:

Most entertaining review I have watched so far. It really is a special mess when you step back and look at it critically, plot holes galore, rampant stupidity, ridiculous character arcs.

How long do we think has passed from the start of TFA to the end of TLJ. A week and a half?

 

[sullydnl]

I genuinely don't mean to be harsh on @Revan (who I generally really like as a poster) but the idea that TLJ is as bad as the Star Wars prequels is one of the single worst film opinions I've seen on this site. In terms of the most basic fundamentals of filmmaking it's utterly, utterly wrong.

 

[zing]

I genuinely don't mean to be harsh on @Revan (who I generally really like as a poster) but the idea that TLJ is as bad as the Star Wars prequels is one of the single worst film opinions I've seen on this site. In terms of the most basic fundamentals of filmmaking it's utterly, utterly wrong.

I don't think he's coming at it from a film making point of view.

I don't know a thing about film making(I know bad movies from good ones, that is about it), but my criticism of The Last Jedi is entirely about the story. Like @Revan, I've read the Star Wars expanded universe and it's a rich world in terms of story building.

The prequels stayed true to it, as bad as the movies may have been(I liked Revenge of the Sith).

I really despise Last Jedi. The worst Star Wars film till date.

 

[kps88]

I genuinely don't mean to be harsh on @Revan (who I generally really like as a poster) but the idea that TLJ is as bad as the Star Wars prequels is one of the single worst film opinions I've seen on this site. In terms of the most basic fundamentals of filmmaking it's utterly, utterly wrong.

The new movies are never going to please fans like him. They've spent years with the books so will always have their own ideas over where things should have gone. Everything will either be too similar to the old movies or not match with the lore/rules of Star Wars whenever they dare try something new.

 

[berbatrick]

The new movies are never going to please fans like him. They've spent years with the books so will always have their own ideas over where things should have gone. Everything will either be too similar to the old movies or not match with the lore/rules of Star Wars whenever they dare try something new.

I haven't read a tenth as much but in terms of plot and character the thrawn trilogy novels (set maybe 5 years after 6) are far superior to this sequel trilogy. At the same time, I found some of the other EU stuff unreadable and incoherent and dumb. It's a pity they threw the baby out with the bathwater.
On the other hand, the prequels we bad in a way the movies almost cannot be.

 

[kps88]

I haven't read a tenth as much but in terms of plot and character the thrawn trilogy novels (set maybe 5 years after 6) are far superior to this sequel trilogy. At the same time, I found some of the other EU stuff unreadable and incoherent and dumb. It's a pity they threw the baby out with the bathwater.
On the other hand, the prequels we bad in a way the movies almost cannot be.

That's part of the problem. The Thrawn Trilogy became lore to people who spent time with them.

 

[berbatrick]

That's part of the problem. The Thrawn Trilogy became lore to people who spent time with them.

It's real for me goddamit

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't think he's coming at it from a film making point of view.

I don't know a thing about film making(I know bad movies from good ones, that is about it), but my criticism of The Last Jedi is entirely about the story. Like @Revan, I've read the Star Wars expanded universe and it's a rich world in terms of story building.

The prequels stayed true to it, as bad as the movies may have been(I liked Revenge of the Sith).

I really despise Last Jedi. The worst Star Wars film till date.

Second bolded sentence invalidates the first.

What you Star Wars uber-fans need to realise is that “movie which didn’t tell story I wanted/expected to hear” is not the same thing as “objectively terrible movie”; an angle that fans are using to justify the extent of the hurt feelings they have about the film.

“I was really disappointed” or “this wasn’t the movie I thought it could be” are perfectly valid criticisms. Or even a simple “I didn’t like it”. When you read comments about this being as bad or worse than prequels; along with intense nit-picking about plot that no other movie of this genre could survive (including every Star Wars movie ever) then it says much more about the person making the comments than it does about The Last Jedi.

 

[Ødegaard]

Second bolded sentence invalidates the first.

What you Star Wars uber-fans need to realise is that “movie which didn’t tell story I wanted/expected to hear” is not the same thing as “objectively terrible movie”; an angle that fans are using to justify the extent of the hurt feelings they have about the film.

“I was really disappointed” or “this wasn’t the movie I thought it could be” are perfectly valid criticisms. Or even a simple “I didn’t like it”. When you read comments about this being as bad or worse than prequels; along with intense nit-picking about plot that no other movie of this genre could survive (including every Star Wars movie ever) then it says much more about the person making the comments than it does about The Last Jedi.

I haven't read any expanded universe stuff that i remember. I bloody enjoyed both this movie and the prequels because i can turn my brain off to a lot of stuff, but once your mind starts going it's obvious that it is a terrible film and cant even stay true to the already established lore within the universe it has set.

Right now it's as if someone at Marvel said "feck it, i want a random kid to beat thanos. Lets add some gotg humor and make a killing", while completely ignore stuff they've set up for a long time with the individual movies and avengers films. I can watch that, but it doesn't work for the universe marvel has created. Or if Aragorn in Lord of the Rings took the ring himself as a spy for Sauron because the director suddenly wanted that at the end of the return of the king.

People get pissed when a single movie breaks characters and plot-points, so it's even more natural that fans or even just casual watchers like me will moan a bit when a soon-to-be 9-movie universe ignores it's own rules.
It is watchable and absolutely a better film technically and visually than the prequels, but it isn't more faithful to it's own universe. Midiclorians weren't something fans wanted, but it's adding to what was already known (or in the ot a mystery), not making them absolete like TLJ has done for a lot of stuff in past movies.

 

[Woodzy]

Did anyone else think that Yoda looked awful? Why on earth didn't they use CGI for him?

 

[kps88]

Did anyone else think that Yoda looked awful? Why on earth didn't they use CGI for him?

Yeah he looked odd. It was apparently the same puppet but the lighting felt off to me. Using CGI would have pissed off the purists.

 

[Ødegaard]

Did anyone else think that Yoda looked awful? Why on earth didn't they use CGI for him?

Homage to the old trilogy using the old puppet.
Wouldn't say terrible. Slightly out of place with all the other top visuals but I can live with that.

 

[Revan]

I genuinely don't mean to be harsh on @Revan (who I generally really like as a poster) but the idea that TLJ is as bad as the Star Wars prequels is one of the single worst film opinions I've seen on this site. In terms of the most basic fundamentals of filmmaking it's utterly, utterly wrong.

It is more the story rather than the entire film. The acting is still better than in the first two prequels, and while the humor sucked, it still is a bit better. The problem is that the story was worse, there are so many things that make no sense. And then there are the small things like insta-travelling (FTL travelling takes time in Star Wars until the new trilogy), or the big ship not being able to catch the small ship (whaaaat).

But the biggest three problems which ruin everything for me are:

1) Luke's character has been butchered.
2) Rey Sue. Everyone in Star Wars, be movies or books need training. Everyone bar her, of course.
3) The fact that it makes the old Trilogy irrelevant. The weak rebels fight against all odds against the big evil Empire and somehow win. 40 years later, the weak rebels are fighting against the big evil Empire.

It also didn't have lightsaber duels which kind of suck. It has the best cinematography for a Star Wars movie, Luke moment was alright and it had moments but generally it is less enjoyable for me than the first two prequels.

 

[Revan]

I haven't read any expanded universe stuff that i remember. I bloody enjoyed both this movie and the prequels because i can turn my brain off to a lot of stuff, but once your mind starts going it's obvious that it is a terrible film and cant even stay true to the already established lore within the universe it has set.

Right now it's as if someone at Marvel said "feck it, i want a random kid to beat thanos. Lets add some gotg humor and make a killing", while completely ignore stuff they've set up for a long time with the individual movies and avengers gilms. I can watch that, but it doesn't work for the universe marvel has created. Or if Aragorn in Lord of the Rings took the ring himself as a spy for Sauron because the director suddenly wanted that at the end of the return of the king.

People get pissed when a single movie breaks characters and plot-points, so it's even more natural that fans or even just casual watchers like me will moan a bit when a soon-to-be 9-movie universe ignores it's own rules.
It is watchable and absolutely a better film technically and visually than the prequels, but it isn't more faithful to it's own universe. Midiclorians weren't something fans wanted, but it's adding to what was already known (or in the ot a mystery), not making them absolete like TLJ has done for a lot of stuff in past movies.

This expresses my thoughts better than I was able to write them.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I haven't read any expanded universe stuff that i remember. I bloody enjoyed both this movie and the prequels because i can turn my brain off to a lot of stuff, but once your mind starts going it's obvious that it is a terrible film and cant even stay true to the already established lore within the universe it has set.

Right now it's as if someone at Marvel said "feck it, i want a random kid to beat thanos. Lets add some gotg humor and make a killing", while completely ignore stuff they've set up for a long time with the individual movies and avengers gilms. I can watch that, but it doesn't work for the universe marvel has created. Or if Aragorn in Lord of the Rings took the ring himself as a spy for Sauron because the director suddenly wanted that at the end of the return of the king.

People get pissed when a single movie breaks characters and plot-points, so it's even more natural that fans or even just casual watchers like me will moan a bit when a soon-to-be 9-movie universe ignores it's own rules.
It is watchable and absolutely a better film technically and visually than the prequels, but it isn't more faithful to it's own universe. Midiclorians weren't something fans wanted, but it's adding to what was already known (or in the ot a mystery), not making them absolete like TLJ has done for a lot of stuff in past movies.

This “being faithful to the universe” stuff means diddly squat to me and, I suspect, to the majority of critics and people who watched it. In the same way that the bit in bold about GOTG means nothing to me. I’ve no idea who Thanos is, other than a brief glimpse in one of the films. Couldn’t care less who takes him down or how he’s taken down.

This enotional over investment of what have been relatively fringe characters - based on their actual contributions within the movies - is a classic example of what I’m getting at. A movie trilogy should be judged on its own terms. Not against a whole body of work built up around them that the vast majority of film-goers have no interest in and will never care about one bit. It’s like saying that Reservoir Dogs was a terrible movie because Mr Blue did get a hero’s demise.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It is more the story rather than the entire film. The acting is still better than in the first two prequels, and while the humor sucked, it still is a bit better. The problem is that the story was worse, there are so many things that make no sense. And then there are the small things like insta-travelling (FTL travelling takes time in Star Wars until the new trilogy), or the big ship not being able to catch the small ship (whaaaat).

But the biggest three problems which ruin everything for me are:

1) Luke's character has been butchered.
2) Rey Sue. Everyone in Star Wars, be movies or books need training. Everyone bar her, of course.
3) The fact that it makes the old Trilogy irrelevant. The weak rebels fight against all odds against the big evil Empire and somehow win. 40 years later, the weak rebels are fighting against the big evil Empire.

It also didn't have lightsaber duels which kind of suck. It has the best cinematography for a Star Wars movie, Luke moment was alright and it had moments but generally it is less enjoyable for me than the first two prequels.

Those numbered bullets are the three most bizarro reasons to decide someone has made a bad movie in the history of film criticism...

 

[Ødegaard]

This “being faithful to the universe” stuff means diddly squat to me and, I suspect, to the majority of critics and people who watched it. In the same way that the bit in bold about GOTG means nothing to me. I’ve no idea who Thanos is, other than a brief glimpse in one of the films. Couldn’t care less who takes him down or how he’s taken down.

This enotional over investment of what have been relatively fringe characters - based on their actual contributions within the movies - is a classic example of what I’m getting at. A movie trilogy should be judged on its own terms. Not against a whole body of work built up around them that the vast majority of film-goers have no interest in and will never care about one bit.

Then your view is in my opinion just wrong.
It isn't just a random movie trilogy, it's a universe expanding trilogy.
You can make something new and do it in a way that doesn't ruin old movies, and that's part of the job for writers and directors. You not giving a shit about it doesn't mean it isn't of importance.

If they want Luke to go all hermit, they should have made a more compelling case for him going that route than "this guy might become the next Vader". The issue isn't that he became a hermit, but the reasoning for that being so. You can appease fans and build for new ones. Using a doll-yoda is the cheap and unimaginative way of getting old fans happy, while changing how characters are so significantly without a fair and believable explanation is not.

 

[Revan]

This “being faithful to the universe” stuff means diddly squat to me and, I suspect, to the majority of critics and people who watched it. In the same way that the bit in bold about GOTG means nothing to me. I’ve no idea who Thanos is, other than a brief glimpse in one of the films. Couldn’t care less who takes him down or how he’s taken down.

It has 52% on Rotten Tomatoes from users(lower than any of the prequels), while on IMDB now it has the exact same rating as Revenge of the Sith and certainly, it will end with a lower score than it.

So clearly, it meant something to a lot of people. I had the Christmas dinner with 20 or so colleagues, pretty much everyone of them had watched the movie, and everyone either disliked it or strongly hated it, with the biggest critique being that 'it is not Star Wars'.

My 14 years old nephew liked it (though not loved it) though.

Those numbered bullets are the three most bizarro reasons to decide someone has made a bad movie in the history of film criticism...

Really, making a beloved trilogy irrelevant, butchering the main character of that trilogy and making a totally overpowered protagonist that goes against everything the lore has established is bizarre critique now?

I say it again, if people started watching Star Wars only from this trilogy, then maybe these are good movies. But if you've been there from the beginning (EU or not EU) then they are terrible.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Then your view is in my opinion just wrong.
It isn't just a random movie trilogy, it's a universe expanding trilogy.
You can make something new and do it in a way that doesn't ruin old movies, and that's part of the job for writers and directors. You not giving a shit about it doesn't mean it isn't of importance.

If they want Luke to go all hermit, they should have made a more compelling case for him going that route than "this guy might become the next Vader". The issue isn't that he became a hermit, but the reasoning for that being so. You can appease fans and build for new ones. Using a doll-yoda is the cheap and unimaginative way of getting old fans happy, while changing how characters are so significantly without a fair and believable explanation is not.

They didn’t have to. It’s their movie. He’s never been a particularly developed character anyway. A whiny do-gooder with daddy issues. We’ve already seen Jedis massacre a bunch of fecking children so it’s not a massive stretch for another one of them to have some character flaws.

The aged hero going into hiding after some sort of terrible emotional trauma is a bog standard movie trope and worked perfectly well here. It really is strange as feck that so many people feel offended by this routine narrative device.

 

[Ødegaard]

They didn’t have to. It’s their movie. He’s never been a particularly developed character anyway. A whiny do-gooder with daddy issues. We’ve already seen Jedis massacre a bunch of fecking children so it’s not a massive stretch for another one of them to have some character flaws.

The aged hero going into hiding after some sort of terrible emotional trauma is a bog standard movie trope and worked perfectly well here. It really is strange as feck that so many people feel offended by this routine narrative device.

They didn't have to, but if being rated well Is important to them, they have to.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They didn't have to, but if being rated well Is important to them, they have to.

Thankfully, they seemed to care more about making a watchable movie than trying to appease the fanbois. And made a better film as a result. The prequels being a good example of the sort of a muddled mess that results when the latter approach is taken.

The weird thing is, I didn’t even think it was a particularly great film. It was perfectly fine. Nothing special but a good fun, great looking blockbuster. Shits all over Netflix’s latest effort at a blockbuster, Bright, for example. The only dog I have in this fight is to push back against this bonkers idea that it’s a bad movie because Luke’s storyline didn’t live up to the fevered fantasies of assorted obsessive fans.

 

[zing]

Second bolded sentence invalidates the first.

What you Star Wars uber-fans need to realise is that “movie which didn’t tell story I wanted/expected to hear” is not the same thing as “objectively terrible movie”; an angle that fans are using to justify the extent of the hurt feelings they have about the film.

“I was really disappointed” or “this wasn’t the movie I thought it could be” are perfectly valid criticisms. Or even a simple “I didn’t like it”. When you read comments about this being as bad or worse than prequels; along with intense nit-picking about plot that no other movie of this genre could survive (including every Star Wars movie ever) then it says much more about the person making the comments than it does about The Last Jedi.

Second bolded sentence doesn't invalidate the first. If you're going to be pompous and sarcastic, at least do it in a logically correct manner.

Don't even care about the rest of your post. Looks like you came in here with an axe to grind.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Second bolded sentence doesn't invalidate the first. If you're going to be pompous and sarcastic, at least do it in a logically correct manner.

It is logical. Read it again.

Unless there’s either been no bad movies or no good movies in the Star Wars canon to date. Neither of which is true, surely?

It’s also odd that you accuse me of being sarcastic while quoting a post which contains not a hint of sarcasm but meh, whatever.

 

[Ødegaard]

Thankfully, they seemed to care more about making a watchable movie than trying to appease the fanbois. And made a better film as a result. The prequels being a good example of the sort of a muddled mess that results when the latter approach is taken.

The weird thing is, I didn’t even think it was a particularly great film. It was perfectly fine. Nothing special but a good fun, great looking blockbuster. Shits all over Netflix’s latest effort at a blockbuster, Bright, for example. The only dog I have in this fight is to push back against this bonkers idea that it’s a bad movie because Luke’s storyline didn’t live up to the fevered fantasies of assorted obsessive fans.

They could have done both you know.
And no, it obviously isn't a better film than it could have been when it ruins a lot of the setup from the first in the troligy and ruins continuity throughout the Universe. It means there is something wrong in the writing.

The prequels has it's own set of issues with poor editing (too much cgi world-view shots) bad actors with terrible and cringe-worthy dialogues (sand...), but at as terrible as it was, it added terrible stuff to the existing stuff and didn't say the force didn't really exist and made a star-treck movie out of it. The Last Jedi without Luke/Leia could've been named anything else, and so it's no wonder that people can't see it as a star wars movie.

You rating it doesn't make it a good movie. Could be a cult-movie for Star Wars haters who found a part in Star Wars they liked, but that's not a great move for the people at Disney if they want to continue making Star Wars movies.
You and me being perfectly fine watching the film doesn't make it a good movie. Once a movie is set in a already built Universe, it needs to adhere to the rules made before and characters need to stay in character or have their changes be believable. You thinking it's fine to give a middle-finger to fans would be the equal to being fine with club-owners like George & Gillet for Liverpool or Mike Ashley for Newcastle giving their middle-finger to their fans, it's not a good business idea and when you in Hollywood can have good directors, actors and writers to make it work for both sides you strive to do that. They obviously failed going by that it's a big split in the middle about if it's a good, great, bad or even unacceptable movie.

Also, if you think it wasn't great, then it means they could've done better even in your eyes. I thought it was above just "fine", but still agree with those who criticize it because they hoped for greatness. Being a fan really only means you want the best. Would be weird if we started supporting hollywood universes and trilogies and watched them regardless of how shit they made them.

There are fans who found it fine/enjoyable.
There are fans who found it good/great.
There are fans who found it terrible and outright bad.

All those have in common is that they wanted it to be great. The same goes with football fans now fighting over Mourinho being good enough or not, players being good enough or not, Woodward being good enough or not. Those won't change their minds or be devalued as fans because you call them United-fanboys. Weird that you seem to think it'll work on hollywood-productions.

 

[rcoobc]

The Vader scene in Rogue One was one of the biggest cringe moments I've ever experienced sitting in a cinema.

What did you think of VIII, @Rooney in Paris ?

Why even watch film if you don't like Darth Vadar tearing shit up

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They could have done both you know.
And no, it obviously isn't a better film than it could have been when it ruins a lot of the setup from the first in the troligy and ruins continuity throughout the Universe. It means there is something wrong in the writing.

The prequels has it's own set of issues with poor editing (too much cgi world-view shots) bad actors with terrible and cringe-worthy dialogues (sand...), but at as terrible as it was, it added terrible stuff to the existing stuff and didn't say the force didn't really exist and made a star-treck movie out of it. The Last Jedi without Luke/Leia could've been named anything else, and so it's no wonder that people can't see it as a star wars movie.

You rating it doesn't make it a good movie. Could be a cult-movie for Star Wars haters who found a part in Star Wars they liked, but that's not a great move for the people at Disney if they want to continue making Star Wars movies.
You and me being perfectly fine watching the film doesn't make it a good movie. Once a movie is set in a already built Universe, it needs to adhere to the rules made before and characters need to stay in character or have their changes be believable. You thinking it's fine to give a middle-finger to fans would be the equal to being fine with club-owners like George & Gillet for Liverpool or Mike Ashley for Newcastle giving their middle-finger to their fans, it's not a good business idea and when you in Hollywood can have good directors, actors and writers to make it work for both sides you strive to do that. They obviously failed going by that it's a big split in the middle about if it's a good, great, bad or even unacceptable movie.

Also, if you think it wasn't great, then it means they could've done better even in your eyes. I thought it was above just "fine", but still agree with those who criticize it because they hoped for greatness. Being a fan really only means you want the best. Would be weird if we started supporting hollywood universes and trilogies and watched them regardless of how shit they made them.

There are fans who found it fine/enjoyable.
There are fans who found it good/great.
There are fans who found it terrible and outright bad.

All those have in common is that they wanted it to be great. The same goes with football fans now fighting over Mourinho being good enough or not, players being good enough or not, Woodward being good enough or not. Those won't change their minds or be devalued as fans because you call them United-fanboys. Weird that you seem to think it'll work on hollywood-productions.

I’m not really following your analogies and I’m already repeating myself a bunch so I think it’s best we agree to disagree. My final point will be to ask you if you can think of any series of movies that didn’t involve comic books or sci fi fantasy universes where people decided that one of these movies was a crap movie because a character didn’t behave the way people wanted/expected him/her to behave? Maybe one of the Godfather films? Or, I dunno, Die Hard?

Because, from the outside looking in, this sort of thing seems to be unique to this genre and it’s got nothing to do with legitimate movie criticism. It’s something else entirely.

 

[R.N7]

Why even watch film if you don't like Darth Vadar tearing shit up

Because I'm not a nerdy teenager who uses terms like 'badass'.

 

[Ødegaard]

I’m not really following your analogies and I’m already repeating myself a bunch so I think it’s best we agree to disagree. My final point will be to ask you if you can think of any series of movies that didn’t involve comic books or sci fi fantasy universes where people decided that one of these movies was a crap movie because a character didn’t behave the way people wanted/expected him/her to behave? Maybe one of the Godfather films? Or, I dunno, Die Hard?

Because, from the outside looking in, this sort of thing seems to be unique to this genre and it’s got nothing to do with legitimate movie criticism. It’s something else entirely.

Hard to say, I'm more of a casual "watcher of everything" without being too deep into any of it.
It's also a case of those rising to fame rarely doing shit stuff that contradicts the setup of the universe without something grander than first being let on happening and being told of later, which is why some of it (like Reys powers without training) can be saved by her being someone special in the 9th film.
Mind, I too think it's dumb if they need to be connected to some thing or someone in order to be special, and like that they are trying to shift away from that in the star wars universe, but it could have been done in a way that makes it seem like the force is changing instead of overwriting what was already there.

But one example could be games. People lose their collective shits about how Sephiroth, Cloud, Squall and co are portrayed in Kingdom Hearts (they belong in Final Fantasy 7 & 8), as they act or talk way out of character or is portrayed in dumbass ways not remotely resembling what they are supposed to be. People didn't think Cloud was a emo-kid until Kingdom Hearts portrayed him as one for example.
Kratos from the God of War-series would be another that seems out of place in Norse Mythology (he's from greek) with a son and more settled lifestyle than his raging everything-must-die attitude, but since it's a god of war game everyone expects him to go apeshit at some point. Having him turn into a hard-looking-man who is soft as woolen socks would make people unhappy for sure.

Normally games get away with having worse narrative quality than movies do, because the narrative and universe building is everything that engages you in movies while in games you can be saved to some degree by amazing gameplay.

 

[Member 39557]

I thought it was ok.
It's not the best Star Wars film, but it's far from the worst!
All the people moaning about Rey having no training make me laugh. In the original trilogy, Luke had a few hours worth on the way to the death star and then manages to make an impossible shot into the exhaust port. Then he cocked about with Yoda for a couple of weeks lifting rocks and jogging through the woods, leaves without completing the training and still managed to ultimately beat Vader.

The only silly bit for me was the Princess Leia floating in space bit. It took me right out of the film because it was so stupid.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

It was a tough shot, but hardly impossible. Thanks to Han, Luke had time and no distractions, as well as lovely Force. Red Leader tried but missed, clearly jerked the joystick right at that moment. Old dude.

Also, Vader pretty much trashed Luke, unless you're talking about Return of the Jedi. I wouldn't assume he didn't train between the two films.

 

[RedSky]

It has 52% on Rotten Tomatoes from users(lower than any of the prequels), while on IMDB now it has the exact same rating as Revenge of the Sith and certainly, it will end with a lower score than it.

So clearly, it meant something to a lot of people. I had the Christmas dinner with 20 or so colleagues, pretty much everyone of them had watched the movie, and everyone either disliked it or strongly hated it, with the biggest critique being that 'it is not Star Wars'.

My 14 years old nephew liked it (though not loved it) though.


Really, making a beloved trilogy irrelevant, butchering the main character of that trilogy and making a totally overpowered protagonist that goes against everything the lore has established is bizarre critique now?

I say it again, if people started watching Star Wars only from this trilogy, then maybe these are good movies. But if you've been there from the beginning (EU or not EU) then they are terrible.

Please don't use Rotten Tomato or IMDB as a way of proving your point. There have been several Reddit Groups that have been posting low scores as a way to get back at Disney because they're upset about the movie.

I haven't met one person who hated the film, several said it was disappointing but still a decent film while others have said they've liked it. One of my sisters friends who's a bit of a hipster but loves star wars absolutely hates it and ranted about it for an hour at her. He's someone who's read most of the old books though, i'm pretty sure he'd hate everything Disney will do with the franchise.

Unfortunately for Hardcore Star Wars fans, these films will simply bring up a new Generation to replace them. So I don't think Disney will be too concerned about upsetting them (especially as they'll continue to go watch the films anyway).

Also, I'll point out that I love Star Wars (I grew up playing the XWing games and watching them on VHS tapes, I remember most of the tv adverts in the recording I was that obsessed). I'm really enjoying these films, from my perspective they are not "terrible".