Film Star Wars: Episode VIII

Redlambs said:
That's exactly what it was. But it was also awesome and pleased everyone.

There's not a single good reason not to have done the same here and given Luke the send off that would have pleased absolutely everyone.

But yeah, it didn't make everything a disaster and perhaps be happy that the projection itself was an awesome display of power. You know, for your childhood self :)
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The Vader scene was quite widely seen as a little tacky.

There was a good reason for Luke to behave as he did, as I said. 'I've had doubts all these years but now I'm going to kick fundament' would have been disappointing.

But to cross the boundaries of space to peacefully bewilder your opponent and save your friends (while, to be fair, also suggesting that you could have taken him in a normal Jedi battle)? Majestic.
 
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squiggle said:
Vader in Rogue One felt a little like pandering.

I think Luke’s ending is more powerful than if he’d just said ‘eh, I was wrong about all that Jedi stuff being a mistake.’ As it was he showed himself to be even more powerful and able to rise above the contradictions he’d found in the Jedi.

I know this is perhaps a little too much weight to give to the intentions of a popular blockbuster but for the sake of my childhood self I’m running with it.
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Pandering to a group that's followed you for 8+ films, tons of series and novels isn't exactly wrong though.
 
sullydnl said:
Having him suddenly emerge from isolation as a ridiculously overpowered badass who can singlehandedly defeat entire armies (only to presumably then lose a lightsaber fight with emo vader) would have been an extension of the fanboy-imagined Luke rather than the Luke this film actually set up, I think. I'm sure it would have been a crowdpleasing moment but it would have been less in keeping with the overall film.
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They could have had the first order retreat (or just be held back enough for the resistance to escape) and have Luke die from exhaustion. Nothing changes except for fans being happy.
 
Redlambs said:
But why would it? The argument is it's a kids film, or they are doing something different, but why could they not have at least had his force projection still do cool stuff in that case?

And if these are just kids films, then why does it need to be so deep anyway?

Using the term 'fanboy' shows your slant, and that's fair enough. But at least explain as to why pleasing everyone is less preferable than pissing off people who wanted to see Luke kick ass for whatever reason. Like I say, none of us surely would have hated an OP Luke scene when literally nothing would have changed in the rest of the film or the next one.

I'm not a fanboy myself, I like the games and can take or leave the films, I know very little of the EU, I just sit back and see the anti-fanboy side as amusing as the fanboy side here, because absolutely nothing makes sense in this universe anyway. So trying to brow-beat people over a fantasy film is amusing to say the least (and that's not necessarily an accusation I throw at you here). In fact I'd say it's more amusing watching people argue it's a kids film then try to explain away the missed opportunities as some kind of well written change.

So in summary, again, why not just give Luke an OP send off and have everyone happy? This isn't fecking shawshank, people don't need to see an emotional journey that wasn't even very emotional anyway.
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There's absolutely nothing wrong with crowd-pleasing moments, as long as they add to the overall quality of the film.

I can only really give my own opinion and that's that an overpowered Luke actually defeating an entire army would have detracted from the film overall as it would have run against the character and tone the film had actually set up. I wouldn't have been that bothered (we're talking about a fun kids film after all, not something actually important) but still. Opinions and that. It's not the most sophisticated argument in the world but there you are. :lol:

As it was I thought the scene worked well and was crowd pleasing enough as it was. I had mixed feelings about that "epic" Vader scene in Rogue One though so maybe my taste is just off. *shrugs*
 
The Vader scene in Rogue One wasn't even tacky imo. It's not like he defeated dozens of enemies ala Neo. He used a few force powers to a group of Rebels who were shitting bricks and after the initial volley began to run away in panic.
 
RedSky said:
The Vader scene in Rogue One wasn't even tacky imo. It's not like he defeated dozens of enemies ala Neo. He used a few force powers to a group of Rebels who were shitting bricks and after the initial volley began to run away in panic.
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It was fan service though - even if you enjoyed it, that's still what it was.

Luke having a similar scene in TLJ would have been beyond stupid in my view.
 
Minimalist said:
It was fan service though - even if you enjoyed it, that's still what it was.

Luke having a similar scene in TLJ would have been beyond stupid in my view.
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Oh agreed. But I don't think it was an absurd or unnecessary addition to Rogue One. Personally I liked what they did with Luke in this one.
 
The problem with Rogue One, is that if you aren’t a huge fan of Star Wars, it made little sense and had virtually no consequence. It was half a film. An incredibly earnest wannabe war epic made to plug a plot hole in a 70s kid’s film.

So people saying “why didn’t they just give the fans what they wanted?” about Luke in this one seems mad to me. Of the three films they’ve made so far, two of them have been nothing but giving you what you want. To the independent detriment of both IMO. How many ludicrously expensive blockbusters do they have to make exclusively for the benefit of OT fans before doing something vaguely off piste is allowed some leeway? And by “off piste” I of course mean “giving a beloved character a huge heroic send off, but in slightly the wrong way”
 
Mockney said:
The problem with Rogue One, is that if you aren’t a huge fan of Star Wars, it made little sense and had virtually no consequence. It was half a film. An incredibly earnest wannabe war epic made to plug a plot hole in a 70s kid’s film.

So people saying “why didn’t they just give the fans what they wanted?” about Luke in this one seems mad to me. Of the three films they’ve made so far, two of them have been nothing but giving you what you want. To the independent detriment of both IMO. How many ludicrously expensive blockbusters do they have to make exclusively for the benefit of OT fans before doing something vaguely off piste is allowed some leeway? And by “off piste” I of course mean “giving a beloved character a huge heroic send off, but in slightly the wrong way”
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What is this issue they have with how it goes in the movie? I thought the whole thing was Luke Skywalker's character down to a tee (without elaborating which I can if need be).
 
Minimalist said:
What is this issue they have with how it goes in the movie? I thought the whole thing was Luke Skywalker's character down to a tee (without elaborating which I can if need be).
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I think they have a problem with the astral projection angle. I dunno really. His magic ex machina wasn’t sufficiently magical or something.
 
Mockney said:
I think they have a problem with the astral projection angle. I dunno really. His magic ex machina wasn’t sufficiently magical or something.
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Okay that's weird if they don't think it's his character to consider avoiding a bloodbath with Ren. He wouldn't kill Vader (threw his friggin lightsaber away only to get fried by Sidious) and in this new trilogy, he should have killed Kylo Ren as a trainee only to have second thoughts (and paid for it). Why is it out of character for him to avoid a bloodbath and simply use Ren's petulance against him as a distraction until the resistance can escape? Weird that.

I wouldn't have predicted it and it did surprise me but it makes sense. Certainly has not 'ruined Star Wars' or any of that crap.
 
Finally got the chance to see it. Though wasn’t the best Star Wars I’ve seen, I did really enjoy it.

It had amazing set pieces with great special effects. I thought the characters were good with some great interactions and humorous moments (not all of the funny bits worked but most were on point).

I felt where the film let itself down was the story went at 100mph and almost rushed at times. It certainly didn’t work when they missed out the link between Reys disappearance on the ship and her on the milenium falcon in the battle.
It didn’t take away my enjoyment of the film but I wouldn’t have it up there with ESB or RO.
Still thumbs up from me.
 
sullydnl said:
There's absolutely nothing wrong with crowd-pleasing moments, as long as they add to the overall quality of the film.

I can only really give my own opinion and that's that an overpowered Luke actually defeating an entire army would have detracted from the film overall as it would have run against the character and tone the film had actually set up. I wouldn't have been that bothered (we're talking about a fun kids film after all, not something actually important) but still. Opinions and that. It's not the most sophisticated argument in the world but there you are. :lol:

As it was I thought the scene worked well and was crowd pleasing enough as it was. I had mixed feelings about that "epic" Vader scene in Rogue One though so maybe my taste is just off. *shrugs*
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Except I'm not talking about Luke defeating an entire army, you've just read it all that way because of the previously mentioned slant. And it certainly wasn't crowd pleasing, hence the discussion.

You still, yet again, fail to tell me why an OP Luke would change this film in any single way apart from making everyone happy.
 
"This guy was supposed to be a really powerful Jedi and the fans never really got to see it in the original trilogy."
"That's true. I think they'd love it if we got to see him get his saber out and do some badass shit."
"Yeah, let's do it! What could go wrong?"
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Not entirely serious but slightly serious
 
Redlambs said:
Except I'm not talking about Luke defeating an entire army, you've just read it all that way because of the previously mentioned slant. And it certainly wasn't crowd pleasing, hence the discussion.

You still, yet again, fail to tell me why an OP Luke would change this film in any single way apart from making everyone happy.
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Because nothing about his character in the film suggested he was suddenly going to emerge as the baddest man in space, lightsabering people left right and centre. The way they chose was more in keeping with his actual role in the film. It was also satisfyingly less obvious. Basically it would change things by being less good in and of itself imo.

The fact that there is a discussion doesn't mean it wasn't crowdpleasing, just that some of the crowd wasn't pleased. There was a spontaneous round of applause at that point when i saw it so obviously a fair few people liked it.
 
I both absolutely loved this movie and fecking hated it at the same time. I’m just reserving judgment for how it fits into the trilogy until I’ve seen the final film.

But several points have left me annoyed as feckz
 
Ubik said:
"This guy was supposed to be a really powerful Jedi and the fans never really got to see it in the original trilogy."
"That's true. I think they'd love it if we got to see him get his saber out and do some badass shit."
"Yeah, let's do it! What could go wrong?"
rdcXCDu.gif
Not entirely serious but slightly serious
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I saw the white text, I get what you are saying. I just disagree, but only to a degree.

sullydnl said:
Because nothing about his character in the film suggested he was suddenly going to emerge as the baddest man in space, lightsabering people left right and centre. The way they chose was more in keeping with his actual role in the film. It was also satisfyingly less obvious. Basically it would change things by being less good in and of itself imo.

The fact that there is a discussion doesn't mean it wasn't crowdpleasing, just that some of the crowd wasn't pleased. There was a spontaneous round of applause at that point when i saw it so obviously a fair few people liked it.
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So why even have him in it? If you aren't doing it to crowd please and you are making things for kids, why bother?

Again, you guys seem to he going against the grain but not knowing why.


If Luke went apeshit and went out in style, we wouldn't even need this discussion. The fact we are having it at all speaks volumes.
 
Redlambs said:
Except I'm not talking about Luke defeating an entire army, you've just read it all that way because of the previously mentioned slant. And it certainly wasn't crowd pleasing, hence the discussion.

You still, yet again, fail to tell me why an OP Luke would change this film in any single way apart from making everyone happy.
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Luke was OP. That projection thing was some seriously powerful force stuff. So powerful that it could be referred to as a deux ex machina.
 
Redlambs said:
I saw the white text, I get what you are saying. I just disagree, but only to a degree.



So why even have him in it? If you aren't doing it to crowd please and you are making things for kids, why bother?

Again, you guys seem to he going against the grain but not knowing why.


If Luke went apeshit and went out in style, we wouldn't even need this discussion. The fact we are having it at all speaks volumes.
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Because he made the film better. He can be a good character and add to the film without being a super badass. The fact that it's a kids film doesn't mean you should just insert epic moments at the expense of the overall film.

I know exactly why I wouldn't like him to have a Vader in Rogue One moment, it would be out of keeping with his character in the rest of the film. Vader was at least supposed to be badass, this Luke wasn't particularly. I simply wouldn't have enjoyed the sort of moment you insist would have made everyone happy. It isn't any more complicated than that.
 
Snow said:
Luke was OP. That projection thing was some seriously powerful force stuff. So powerful that it could be referred to as a deux ex machina.
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More powerful than Leia suddenly being supergirl?

sullydnl said:
Because he made the film better. He can be a good character and add to the film without being a super badass. The fact that it's a kids film doesn't mean you should just insert epic moments at the expense of the overall film.

I know exactly why I wouldn't like him to have a Vader in Rogue One moment, it would be out of keeping with his character in the rest of the film. Vader was at least supposed to be badass, this Luke wasn't particularly. I simply wouldn't have enjoyed the sort of moment you insist would have made everyone happy. It isn't any more complicated than that.
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But why? Why was the first film all about finding him whilst setting up these new characters, only to have him end that way? How was Vader "supposed" to be more badass than luke, after the original trilogy ended?

Again, it makes absolutely no difference to how he went out to new fans, so why not appease both? If you are going to play on the same old shit like "well kids aren't going to know who he is anyway" then why not just give everyone the scene they want? You can't seriously tell me you liked how he went out just for creative reasons, because as mockers keeps pointing out, there's nothing to see there in creative terms.

So what is it? What is the reason Luke couldn't go out as a bad ass and please everyone whilst ushering on the next generation? Why did he need, in a kids film remember, some soppy deep ending that means nothing to the audience either way?
 
The Vader bit wears off when you watch it again and see that he's actually doing a very poor job of getting back the all important data drive that the rebels are moving VERY SLOWLY up the corridor. I mean just force pull it, Anakin. But this doesn't get picked up on (probably by the same people that lay into this one for stuff like bombs that they say shouldn't drop) because Rogue One isn't a film that relies on the audience investing in character (they're dead long before you care), or building tension (by design, there can never be any). It exists basically to say "we're sorry about Revenge of the Sith, this is what he should look like." Which, to be fair, I enjoy it for.

On Luke - I'm with Johnson where he says if Luke's there, he either gets lamely killed by Kylo (or those 20 AT-ATs that fire at him a lot) or there's an unsatisfying escape for one or both of them. If he can go there and take out all that machinery then he looks like an extra big douche for hiding away all that time, and isn't gonna get killed by a bloke with a broken lightsaber. Johnson found a good balance, from my seat anyway.
 
Redlambs said:
More powerful than Leia suddenly being supergirl?
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I'd say so. There are even theories among monks in our reality where you could be cut off from the air and survive longer than what is considered normal by controlling your body. Leia was always strong with the force and not super duper weird to see survive in space and then using the force to draw her back to the ship. Certainly looks stronger but not that weird when you think about what others are doing with the force. Probably harder to freeze lazer blasts and other things mid air than to make some sort of force air suit. In the Kotor games you used all sorts of things like that.
 
Redlambs said:
More powerful than Leia suddenly being supergirl?



But why? Why was the first film all about finding him whilst setting up these new characters, only to have him end that way? How was Vader "supposed" to be more badass than luke, after the original trilogy ended?

Again, it makes absolutely no difference to how he went out to new fans, so why not appease both? If you are going to play on the same old shit like "well kids aren't going to know who he is anyway" then why not just give everyone the scene they want? You can't seriously tell me you liked how he went out just for creative reasons, because as mockers keeps pointing out, there's nothing to see there in creative terms.

So what is it? What is the reason Luke couldn't go out as a bad ass and please everyone whilst ushering on the next generation? Why did he need, in a kids film remember, some soppy deep ending that means nothing to the audience either way?
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You seem to be insisting that "everyone" would have fundamentally enjoyed your version more when I'm saying I would literally have enjoyed it less. There's no answer I can give other than to say that I think your version would have been less good, which is presumably why they chose not to do it.

Same thing with "Why was the first film all about finding him whilst setting up these new characters, only to have him end that way". Because they thought that would make for a good movie. It isn't any more complicated than that, you just disagree with their choice.
 
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Wouldn't people also be a bit annoyed about Luke getting there in the first place? His x-wing had been in the ocean for years and years.
 
Ubik said:
The Vader bit wears off when you watch it again and see that he's actually doing a very poor job of getting back the all important data drive that the rebels are moving VERY SLOWLY up the corridor. I mean just force pull it, Anakin.

On Luke - I'm with Johnson where he says if Luke's there, he either gets lamely killed by Kylo (or those 20 AT-ATs that fire at him a lot) or there's an unsatisfying escape for one or both of them. If he can go there and take out all that machinery then he looks like an extra big douche for hiding away all that time, and isn't gonna get killed by a bloke with a broken lightsaber. Johnson found a good balance, from my seat anyway.
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Again, the best takes.
 
Watched this again and enjoyed it just as much, even now knowing the twists and turns.
 
R.N7 said:
The Vader scene in Rogue One was one of the biggest cringe moments I've ever experienced sitting in a cinema.

What did you think of VIII, @Rooney in Paris ?
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I thought it was ok, entertaining if a bit too long. The whole part with whats her face on the island with Luke seemed to go on for ages with nothing really happening.

What about you? Whats the general reception been like? I havent read anything.
 
Oh Leia flying through space was really crap and why didnt Jurassic Park lady smash her ship earlier? She let half the rebels get killed ffs
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Oh Leia flying through space was really crap and why didnt Jurassic Park lady smash her ship earlier? She let half the rebels get killed ffs
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Can only assume she didn't think about going into hyper drive to take it out. Not every day you suicide in a heavy cruiser.

Was that Home 1 for any Star Wars Nerds? Looked like it and Akbar was on it so I assumed it was?
 
Rooney in Paris said:
I thought it was ok, entertaining if a bit too long. The whole part with whats her face on the island with Luke seemed to go on for ages with nothing really happening.

What about you? Whats the general reception been like? I havent read anything.
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It seems like the people that eagerly went to the cinema to watch a Star Wars films were left disappointed, and the people expecting a silly space opera blockbuster were pleasantly surprised after all the shite Star Wars has served up for the past 20 years.

I enjoyed it, Mockney begrudgingly did as well. That should tell you something.
 
R.N7 said:
It seems like the people that eagerly went to the cinema to watch a Star Wars films were left disappointed, and the people expecting a silly space opera blockbuster were pleasantly surprised after all the shite Star Wars has served up for the past 20 years.

I enjoyed it, Mockney begrudgingly did as well. That should tell you something.
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So if anyone watched it, and liked it, they weren't expecting to see a "Star Wars" film? Jesus
 
People complaining about the Rogue One: Vader scene :lol: It was pretty much the only scene in the film where entire cinemas cheered as it happened. Vader is always talked about and portrayed as one of the most badass characters in the entire galaxy and yet in the OT we saw nothing of him in action in his prime, he was half good, half bad, old and frail and a shadow of the person he was supposed to be. He did a lot of walking about barking orders at storm troopers and not a lot of anything else other than choking people and losing a light saber battle to his farmer son. People wanted to see this for so long, a Vader at full strength being merciless.
 
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