Only just under 6 months until the Solo film comes out.
Film Star Wars: Episode VIII
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Yep, fully agreed. It gets mild praise because stuff sometimes actually happens but the writing's shocking and the pacing has Anakin going from hesitant Jedi to child slaughterer within about 10 minutes. Padme also just cries for the entire movie. The Emperor's the best thing about it, and even he's hammy as feck.
AOTC is probably the worst of the lot. The romance stuff goes from bad to plainly creepy. TPM's shite but more due to its general pointlessness than anything else.
I know people who insist Revenge of the Sith is a good film among the shite that is the prequels but I just never buy it. They are all awful and it’s less awful (which means it’s not straight to dvd material).
These new Disney ones are light years beyond all that even if flawed (and what movie isn’t).
These new Disney ones are light years beyond all that even if flawed (and what movie isn’t).
Don't forget Star Wars Rebels which is a very good show. Much much better than this new trilogy.
It's not literally the only door to the cave, that doesn't make sense. It's a blast door designed to withstand heavy artillery but they're not opening that thing every time someone needs to get in our out. There are trenches as a way in but you don't squeest a plattoon single-file through a door.
It really isn't. There are a few good episodes, that's about it.
I've had time to think about this movie and now I'm wondering, what are the First Order and the Rebels actually fighting for? Who is governing the galaxy? Do the First Order bigwigs just roam around in space shooting up the Rebels? Was Snoke the Emperor? Does that make Kylo the new Emperor? What are the stakes in this whole fight? What is Kylo trying to prove?
People knock on the prequels, but those movies, and the Clone Wars animation, actually set the world (universe) up properly and you see how the galaxy was governed, trade alliances etc etc, basic space opera stuff. We never got to see any of this. Instead, they tell us (not show) that the First Order has sort of taken over.
At the moment, all it looks like to me is some kid with the Force is having a tantrum and lashing out at the world and a Force sensitive girl is trying to thwart him.
People knock on the prequels, but those movies, and the Clone Wars animation, actually set the world (universe) up properly and you see how the galaxy was governed, trade alliances etc etc, basic space opera stuff. We never got to see any of this. Instead, they tell us (not show) that the First Order has sort of taken over.
At the moment, all it looks like to me is some kid with the Force is having a tantrum and lashing out at the world and a Force sensitive girl is trying to thwart him.
They're all literally incompetent. An amusing curiously of filmmaking. However poorly you may have thought of this flick’s story, no living being can possibly claim it was cinematically inferior to a film shot entirely on green screen, from wide flat angles, where 70% of the run time was people in bathrobes walking ponderously through CGI hallways explaining the plot. If anything those films aren’t criticised enough, for their sheer aesthetic insanity alone.
In the opening scene, how do the bombs drop down onto the dreadnought? There's no gravity in space for that to happen. There has to be a gravitational force attracting the bombs to the dreadnought for that to happen.
There's hyper gravity space thrusters attached to the bombs that propel them downward.
Revenge of the Sith was actually rated quite highly back then when it was released. It still has decent scores in Rotten Tomatoes (both critics and users) and IMDB. The problem is that with the time passing, for a lot of people (and I bet that they haven't even rewatched it then), it became less Revenge of the Sith and more 'that prequel movie' which by default is anathema. But it is actually a quite good movie and is better than The Last Jedi in almost every possible way. It has a more coherent plot, it is more mature and it has the best lightsaber duels. Also, Lucas actually realized that he is shit at humour so that movie doesn't have much humour.
That is one of those 2 TV shows.
I don't think that Rebels is that good though. The best episodes were those having Thrawn or Ahsoka, 2 characters established elsewhere. The Clone Wars TV show was much better, although they took the piss with Grievous.
Personally I think Anakin’s story in that third film is stupid as hell. Especially killing the children out of seemingly no where. That’s not what Star Wars is about to me - it was never that visceral (if that’s the right term). Even Empire has good moments of levity - rather than the grim film episode 3 is. Frankly it’s just the character plot lines are awful and most of the performances are flat as a result.
Only good performance I can remember is Palpatine.
Oh no, Trade alliances! Flash backs there.
Agree in general though, if there is currency, and independent arms dealers etc, who is in charge of it all if not the first order?
Anakin murdering a class room of children because he thinks his wife might die = Totally believable
Luke briefly considering murdering the next Adolf Hitler = Outrageous.
Anakin's turn should have been done over the course of a trilogy, not over the course of 10 minutes.
It was done. He killed a bunch of women and children in the second movie and he beheaded an unarmed prisoner in the beginning of the third movie.
When he kills the Jedi younglings, he is not Anakin anymore, he is Vader instead.
Not saying that the fall of Darth Vader was done rightly, but it definitely took place during 2 movies, not 10 minutes.
Meh, it wasn't the focus it didn't feel like. He literally tried to arrest Palpatine still a good Jedi, stormed out, came back and turned to the dark side in about 10 minutes.
Yeah, about that Rotten Tomatoes score. I realise there's a big hoo-ha right now about whether they're legit or being gamed by dudes with bots but one thing about them does strike me as odd. Last Jedi and Force Awakens have around 150k and 220k votes each, the original trilogy and the prequels orbit around a million votes, but the score for Revenge of the Sith is shown to be based on over 33 million votes. What on earth is going on there?
Mate, with these films all i really truly care about is lightsabers. I want more lightsabers and fights with lightsabers. So hopefully the next film has like ten guys show up (the broom kid defo) with lightsabers and we have big ass fights.
This film wasn't perfect, but as a Star Wars hardcore fan I came out of the cinema smiling and really enjoyed it tbh. Sure there were a few moments that were a bit silly, but when it was good it was great. I actually really enjoyed what they did with Luke in this film. When you look at the actions of every Jedi in every movie (including Prequels (sigh)) they all make mistakes and do stupid things with good intentions. Yoda told Luke he had to kill Vader without even letting Luke know he was his father, that is pretty fecked up no? If Yoda had his way Luke would have killed Vader and would have never known he'd just killed his Dad. Obi Wan was arrogant and thought he could train Anakin despite being a young Jedi, he failed, he also didn't tell Luke about Vader. Luke however in the Originals was a perfect character, sure he made mistakes like facing Vader in ESB but it was done with good intentions, he never made a decision that was controversial. What we saw from Luke in this film was he is just as flawed. He feared Ben and we all know what Yoda used to say “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” That's precisely what happened with Luke, he feared Ben which led him to a brief taste of the Dark Side (but stopped himself) but that action caused Ben to embrace anger and the rest is history.
I proper belly laughed at the Rey parentage reveal and gave an even bigger laugh when they killed Snoke. I've been listening to a Star Wars podcast for the last two years and I had this picture in my heads of their poor saddened faces at the realisation that they'd had the rug pulled out from under them. They were even discussing the idea that some characters in the recent Battlefront game could be Reys parents. I mean seriously...
What both me and my sister discussed for the hour long drive back yesterday at midnight was the direction the films could go for Ep9. It's really difficult to work out what will happen given the lack of clues, all we know is that there's going to be an internal power struggle in the First Order as General Hux and Kylo Ren have been enemies for a while. Then we've got potential hint that Ep9 could be set several years in the future and be focused around the next generation of Rebels. The whole idea of Ep8 was the passing of the torch to the new Generation, so i'd be surprised if we had a definitive ending like we had in ROTJ. Strikes me as Ep9 will reinforce the message of Ep8 and leave us with a rebuilt Rebel Alliance taking on Kylo Ren who's developed into the next Sith Lord.
I proper belly laughed at the Rey parentage reveal and gave an even bigger laugh when they killed Snoke. I've been listening to a Star Wars podcast for the last two years and I had this picture in my heads of their poor saddened faces at the realisation that they'd had the rug pulled out from under them. They were even discussing the idea that some characters in the recent Battlefront game could be Reys parents. I mean seriously...
What both me and my sister discussed for the hour long drive back yesterday at midnight was the direction the films could go for Ep9. It's really difficult to work out what will happen given the lack of clues, all we know is that there's going to be an internal power struggle in the First Order as General Hux and Kylo Ren have been enemies for a while. Then we've got potential hint that Ep9 could be set several years in the future and be focused around the next generation of Rebels. The whole idea of Ep8 was the passing of the torch to the new Generation, so i'd be surprised if we had a definitive ending like we had in ROTJ. Strikes me as Ep9 will reinforce the message of Ep8 and leave us with a rebuilt Rebel Alliance taking on Kylo Ren who's developed into the next Sith Lord.
A few days on and I still think TLJ was wonderful. I can’t remember when a blockbuster last entertained me so much. Entertained and moved. That was Luke Skywalker, that was.
I’m glad to see there seems to be a bit of a backlash against the backlash.
It’s the best of the three but it’s still far below the original trilogy or, so far, the new trilogy. Palpatine’s great, though.
And Hayden Christensen is a good Anakin; it’s what he has to work with that’s the problem.
I’m glad to see there seems to be a bit of a backlash against the backlash.
It’s the best of the three but it’s still far below the original trilogy or, so far, the new trilogy. Palpatine’s great, though.
And Hayden Christensen is a good Anakin; it’s what he has to work with that’s the problem.
This film wasn't perfect, but as a Star Wars hardcore fan I came out of the cinema smiling and really enjoyed it tbh. Sure there were a few moments that were a bit silly, but when it was good it was great. I actually really enjoyed what they did with Luke in this film. When you look at the actions of every Jedi in every movie (including Prequels (sigh)) they all make mistakes and do stupid things with good intentions. Yoda told Luke he had to kill Vader without even letting Luke know he was his father, that is pretty fecked up no? If Yoda had his way Luke would have killed Vader and would have never known he'd just killed his Dad. Obi Wan was arrogant and thought he could train Anakin despite being a young Jedi, he failed, he also didn't tell Luke about Vader. Luke however in the Originals was a perfect character, sure he made mistakes like facing Vader in ESB but it was done with good intentions, he never made a decision that was controversial. What we saw from Luke in this film was he is just as flawed. He feared Ben and we all know what Yoda used to say “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” That's precisely what happened with Luke, he feared Ben which led him to a brief taste of the Dark Side (but stopped himself) but that action caused Ben to embrace anger and the rest is history.
I proper belly laughed at the Rey parentage reveal and gave an even bigger laugh when they killed Snoke. I've been listening to a Star Wars podcast for the last two years and I had this picture in my heads of their poor saddened faces at the realisation that they'd had the rug pulled out from under them. They were even discussing the idea that some characters in the recent Battlefront game could be Reys parents. I mean seriously...
What both me and my sister discussed for the hour long drive back yesterday at midnight was the direction the films could go for Ep9. It's really difficult to work out what will happen given the lack of clues, all we know is that there's going to be an internal power struggle in the First Order as General Hux and Kylo Ren have been enemies for a while. Then we've got potential hint that Ep9 could be set several years in the future and be focused around the next generation of Rebels. The whole idea of Ep8 was the passing of the torch to the new Generation, so i'd be surprised if we had a definitive ending like we had in ROTJ. Strikes me as Ep9 will reinforce the message of Ep8 and leave us with a rebuilt Rebel Alliance taking on Kylo Ren who's developed into the next Sith Lord.
Smoke and Rey’s parents were handled perfectly, I thought. We know Snoke is a mysterious evil being who moved into the vacuum left by the Emperor and Vader and that’s all we need to know for now. From the way some people were talking I was expecting him to be killed about 15 minutes into the film but we had a good impression of his power and authority.
And it’s quite right that Rey’s been hoping her parents were something more than they were, and it’s quite right that they weren’t.
I was discussing Luke with someone else and wrote that the Luke of TLJ is someone battered by the disappointments of life but who ultimately rises above them. Like a great artist, his work growing more sombre with age as his youthful confidence and hope can’t be sustained even as his abilities increase.
From his point of view (in the new trilogy) he defeated the Emperor and redeemed Vader only for a new evil to fill the vacuum. He then found out that it was an evil he'd unwittingly nurtured through the use of his powers.
His momentary weakness when he realised the extent of the betrayal then provided the tipping point for Ben to become the acknowledged protégé of Snoke (as well as a multiple murderer). It’s understandable that Luke then decided that the use of his powers would only bring their opposite into being (as we have the theme of darkness rising to meet the light in the film).
A loose real-world parallel could maybe be an arms race that only increases the danger for everyone.
From that point of view it would be better for the Republic to deal with Snoke and Keylo with conventional forces. It’s likely it wasn’t a quick decision – the fact that he’s gone back to the origins of the Jedi suggests that he was looking for a way out of the problem but couldn’t find one.
It wasn’t that he was abandoning his friends but that he felt he would bring them sorrow even in victory.
And it’s understandable that people who didn’t see Luke ending like that are unhappy (I was uncertain myself) but I don’t think it’s a betrayal of his character at all. The original trilogy ends on a note of hope with the Empire defeated – but we know in the real world that wars which end in hope often carry the seeds of the next conflict.
And of course he did return to them in the end. He saved the Resistance and defeated Keylo without letting himself become one of his victims, instead ‘dying’ peacefully in front of the two suns and going beyond his unsolvable problem.
The first episode might as well not have existed. Qui-gon is a redundant character. It should have started at episode 2, with teenage Anakin. Then have the change happen over 3 movies, not one and a half. He's conflicted and power hungry, but the change was far too quick.
Vader in Rogue One felt a little like pandering.
I think Luke’s ending is more powerful than if he’d just said ‘eh, I was wrong about all that Jedi stuff being a mistake.’ As it was he showed himself to be even more powerful and able to rise above the contradictions he’d found in the Jedi.
I know this is perhaps a little too much weight to give to the intentions of a popular blockbuster but for the sake of my childhood self I’m running with it.
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Oh no, Trade alliances! Flash backs there.
Agree in general though, if there is currency, and independent arms dealers etc, who is in charge of it all if not the first order?
I must be the only one who enjoyed seeing that side of things.
I suppose my main gripe is there wasn't much world building. We still don't know who Snoke is! I'm betting Disney is saving all these little bits for books and games though.
I must be the only one who enjoyed seeing that side of things.
I suppose my main gripe is there wasn't much world building. We still don't know who Snoke is! I'm betting Disney is saving all these little bits for books and games though.
Think many have spoken about Star Wars being more limited that people think. Worldbuilding is borderline pointless with this franchise - most times it's been attempted it fecking sucks.
Incoherent film, really loose, in a weird way nothing really happens despite a lot happening in the 'progression' of individual characters - felt like i was watching the walking dead, which is a shit program.
TFA was better, solid 7/10 film, although everyone moaned about it being a beat for beat remake of Star Wars/A New Hope/Episode IV/whatever the feck, it felt new without telling you about it the whole time (Rey literally scavving in the wrecks of old empire) while this film won't shut the feck up about how new it is, despite it basically being Empire, but worse. Felt like star wars too. TFA set up a lot of threads, which this film pissed on
. And somehow I care less about the characters after watching.
. Some real prequel-esque dialogue in parts of this one too, and a few things happened that made the cinema laugh at the film
The film wasn't total shit, but more Quantum of Solace to the TFA's Casino Royal. Eat a dick Rian, and stick to superhero bollocks you fecking melt.
TFA was better, solid 7/10 film, although everyone moaned about it being a beat for beat remake of Star Wars/A New Hope/Episode IV/whatever the feck, it felt new without telling you about it the whole time (Rey literally scavving in the wrecks of old empire) while this film won't shut the feck up about how new it is, despite it basically being Empire, but worse. Felt like star wars too. TFA set up a lot of threads, which this film pissed on
Who the feck cares who Snoke is now
The Luke stuff was shite too, subverting expectations doesn't make something good or smart in of itself
Leia flying, Yoda...
The film wasn't total shit, but more Quantum of Solace to the TFA's Casino Royal. Eat a dick Rian, and stick to superhero bollocks you fecking melt.
We all know how this end.
It'll be return of the jedi once again with a glimpse of a new hope, for another trilogy of money making star wars.
But... Fwiw, its still a great saga
It'll be return of the jedi once again with a glimpse of a new hope, for another trilogy of money making star wars.
But... Fwiw, its still a great saga
Agree, it was a fanboy's wet dream and exactly the sort of story beat this film wisely avoided.
Also, while ROTS was by far the best of prequel films, in filmaking terms it was inferior to TLJ in pretty much every way bar appeasing those same Star Wars nerds.
Killing Snoke off means this won't go the way of ROTJ.
That's exactly what it was. But it was also awesome and pleased everyone.
There's not a single good reason not to have done the same here and given Luke the send off that would have pleased absolutely everyone.
But yeah, it didn't make everything a disaster and perhaps be happy that the projection itself was an awesome display of power. You know, for your childhood self
Rotj is about luke and vader, the emperor is just a backdrop.
But 2 movies in i dont see how they can come up with anything major other than rey confronting Kylo in the climax.
Infact id tend to lean on the disney more simple ending, good vs bad kinda stuff. There's only 1 movie left and there isn't much time to develop another twist, or another major antagonist.
Why though? Why is it wise? Absolutely nothing would have changed, but it would have just been a kick ass scene that kids, bored parents and fans could all get behind. Why not just go all out and please everyone at once?
I agree in general with the anti-pandering stuff, but I think even that can go too far the other way and doing things different for the sake of it. Like here, where literally nothing would have been different to give Luke that all powerful ending.
I mean, it'll only be like ROTJ if you think Rey will turn Kylo good at the end. I don't see that happening as they've set Kylo up as the big bad.
Having him suddenly emerge from isolation as a ridiculously overpowered badass who can singlehandedly defeat entire armies (only to presumably then lose a lightsaber fight with emo vader) would have been an extension of the fanboy-imagined Luke rather than the Luke this film actually set up, I think. I'm sure it would have been a crowdpleasing moment but it would have been less in keeping with the overall film.
But why would it? The argument is it's a kids film, or they are doing something different, but why could they not have at least had his force projection still do cool stuff in that case?
And if these are just kids films, then why does it need to be so deep anyway?
Using the term 'fanboy' shows your slant, and that's fair enough. But at least explain as to why pleasing everyone is less preferable than pissing off people who wanted to see Luke kick ass for whatever reason. Like I say, none of us surely would have hated an OP Luke scene when literally nothing would have changed in the rest of the film or the next one.
I'm not a fanboy myself, I like the games and can take or leave the films, I know very little of the EU, I just sit back and see the anti-fanboy side as amusing as the fanboy side here, because absolutely nothing makes sense in this universe anyway. So trying to brow-beat people over a fantasy film is amusing to say the least (and that's not necessarily an accusation I throw at you here). In fact I'd say it's more amusing watching people argue it's a kids film then try to explain away the missed opportunities as some kind of well written change.
So in summary, again, why not just give Luke an OP send off and have everyone happy? This isn't fecking shawshank, people don't need to see an emotional journey that wasn't even very emotional anyway.
If his force projection started fecking shit up I guarantee you people would be complaining about force projections not making sense and being too overpowered. What you're suggesting doesn't fit with this movie.
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