No worries, your point still remains. I was quite surprised that not many people have mentioned that Stam is as guilty as Dwain Chambers when it comes to drugs.
Stam V Vidic
- Thread starter Cheltenham Red
- Start date
No worries, your point still remains. I was quite surprised that not many people have mentioned that Stam is as guilty as Dwain Chambers when it comes to drugs.
Your talking shit or a WUM, either way your a knob, if you actually watched the final you would have seen vidic went crazy and had to be held back by about 4 people and he looked like he wanted kill drogba. When have you ever seen evidence that vidic has been intimidated or remotely scared of anything!?
There is no chance vidic would run either, he would rather die than run, he is a true warrior and thrives on a battle, stam was a big lad though so it would be a toughy, i think vida would keep coming back, it would be a monstrous fight.
Stam was a beast of a man, that guy in that video looks so scared even though he is trying his hardest to make it look like he isnt shitting bricks!
I think stam slightly edges it but vida will have one more when his time is up, so its hard to call
Yeh spot on. I remember in the FA Cup final when 'Mr Chelsea' got flung to the floor by Vidic. So much for Terry being the hardnut.
Probably one way to solve this dilemna would be to rate the two players on various abilities of a defender:
1. Reading of game (ability to see the danger coming)
2. Positional sense (ability to adapt to the perceived danger)
3. Tackling (tackling decision, timging and execution)
4. Interception (interception decision, timing and execution)
5. Strength against opponent (strength against strikers with their backs to the goal, holding up the won ball)
6. Defensive discipline (focus, concentration, e.g. for offside trap etc.)
7. Aerial ability (defensive / goal scoring on set plays)
8. Use of ball (when ball won back - how used)
9. Passing (Ability to pick the long/short pass out of defence)
10. Dribbling (to wriggle off opponents after winning the ball)
We could rate the players on a scale of 1-10 and assign different 'weights' to the different abilities and find the weighted average, thereby of each player. This way we could have an objective assessment, rather than just a speculative one.
1. Reading of game (ability to see the danger coming)
2. Positional sense (ability to adapt to the perceived danger)
3. Tackling (tackling decision, timging and execution)
4. Interception (interception decision, timing and execution)
5. Strength against opponent (strength against strikers with their backs to the goal, holding up the won ball)
6. Defensive discipline (focus, concentration, e.g. for offside trap etc.)
7. Aerial ability (defensive / goal scoring on set plays)
8. Use of ball (when ball won back - how used)
9. Passing (Ability to pick the long/short pass out of defence)
10. Dribbling (to wriggle off opponents after winning the ball)
We could rate the players on a scale of 1-10 and assign different 'weights' to the different abilities and find the weighted average, thereby of each player. This way we could have an objective assessment, rather than just a speculative one.
And you think he's going to get quicker as he gets older?
To be fair, there have been many defenders who have been great without being the fastest. Terry / Blanc (in prime) come to mind - they read the game superbly and more than compensate their lack of pace and can well be better than a defender with pace, for that matter, then, in terms of defensive effectiveness. It's that kind of game wisdom that a defender develops with more maturity...
Sir Alex Ferguson claims he has "never worked with a better defender than Jaap Stam".
The Manchester United manager makes the statement in an upcoming book entitled 'Gewoon Jaap' (Just Jaap), to be released on Saturday to coincide with the player's testimonial.
In the book, he also admits again that selling the defender was one of the few big errors of his managerial career.
United sold Stam to Lazio in 2001, shortly after Stam made revelations about life in the Old Trafford dressing room in his autobiography 'Head to Head'. It was widely assumed that Stam's book prompted the sale.
However, Ferguson said it was purely a financial decision.
"I sold Jaap to Lazio because of the money that the club could earn," Ferguson said.
"His sudden departure had nothing to do with the publishing of his book. As manager I must look after the club's money. Lazio offered a lot of money and I gave into to that. I regret that.
"It was a huge blunder of mine. I don't make them often. Jaap was extremely popular with the fans. But every manager makes a bad decision at some time."
Ferguson said he remains a huge admirer of the defender, who went on to play for AC Milan and Ajax after his time at Lazio.
"I admired in Jaap's game his speed, his enormous power and he had an exceptional sharp tackle," Ferguson said. "Besides that he also had a great mentality.
"He was always focused and he never slacked, even during training. Others could take an example from that. In one-on-one situations he was the best in the world. I have never worked with a better defender than Jaap Stam."
Stam announced his immediate retirement last October after a 16-year career in which he earned 67 caps for Holland.
This should end this little debate
It wasn't too much of a contest in fairness; no disrespect to Vidic. Stam was literally immense in every sense of the word. McGrath was perhaps better than both.
The "Black Pearl" was off the fecking charts when he wasnt near the booze shame that wasnt too often and even then he was a fantastic defender. Sad to see booze and dodgy knees destroy someone with such talent
Stam was huge, fast, quick. Was shell-shocked the day SAF farmed him out. One of our best defenders in history!
Sir Alex Ferguson claims he has "never worked with a better defender than Jaap Stam".
The Manchester United manager makes the statement in an upcoming book entitled 'Gewoon Jaap' (Just Jaap), to be released on Saturday to coincide with the player's testimonial.
In the book, he also admits again that selling the defender was one of the few big errors of his managerial career.
United sold Stam to Lazio in 2001, shortly after Stam made revelations about life in the Old Trafford dressing room in his autobiography 'Head to Head'. It was widely assumed that Stam's book prompted the sale.
However, Ferguson said it was purely a financial decision.
"I sold Jaap to Lazio because of the money that the club could earn," Ferguson said.
"His sudden departure had nothing to do with the publishing of his book. As manager I must look after the club's money. Lazio offered a lot of money and I gave into to that. I regret that.
"It was a huge blunder of mine. I don't make them often. Jaap was extremely popular with the fans. But every manager makes a bad decision at some time."
Ferguson said he remains a huge admirer of the defender, who went on to play for AC Milan and Ajax after his time at Lazio.
"I admired in Jaap's game his speed, his enormous power and he had an exceptional sharp tackle," Ferguson said. "Besides that he also had a great mentality.
"He was always focused and he never slacked, even during training. Others could take an example from that. In one-on-one situations he was the best in the world. I have never worked with a better defender than Jaap Stam."
Stam announced his immediate retirement last October after a 16-year career in which he earned 67 caps for Holland.
This should end this little debate
In his autobiography Keane said that he felt Stam was a level below the truly elite defenders. Harsh in my eyes, but he wasn't as infallible as some of you are making out. His positioning was erratic and he was nothing special on the ball. As has been mentioned, he didn't seem to have the galvanising effect on the rest of the defensive unit that Vidic does. He was exceptionally quick and strong in the tackle though and brave as feck.
Stam is overall better right now but Vidic is closing on him quickly.
Stam was simply a colossus. His only disease was he was prone to panic defending at times. When they going to bad. I believe that is what Keane meant. He lacked the calculated calmness a Blanc and now Rio have.
A Blanc/Stam circa 98-02 would have been fantastic. So would a Ferdinand/Stam circa 02-05 or thereabouts.
I cannot imagine what adding that Stam and also Van Nistelrooy to this team would do. I don't think anyone could compete with that.
Stam,was a mountain of a defender at His best.Vidic not too far behind,if He carries on in same vain for a few seasons then the consistency would just sway it.For overall technique and art of defending stam pips it imo.
in the 18 years i have been following united, rio is simply the best single defender i have seen at the club so far; and i would also then say that the partnership that he now has with vidic is the best i have seen.
i am so uber confident in our defence these days, even when up against the top teams in europe.
would jaap stam playing at the very top of his game make a better partner for rio?....shit i dont know! when i started typing i thought no, that he wouldnt, but the more i thought about it, the more i think he would.....
its a question i couldnt answer, they are both fantastic defenders. end of.
i am so uber confident in our defence these days, even when up against the top teams in europe.
would jaap stam playing at the very top of his game make a better partner for rio?....shit i dont know! when i started typing i thought no, that he wouldnt, but the more i thought about it, the more i think he would.....
its a question i couldnt answer, they are both fantastic defenders. end of.
Vidic will surpass Stam. I have no doubts. Only a matter of time.
Dunno how much Vidic would offer in the future, but taking Stam out and playing either Vidic or Rio in the 99 team I cannot see us winning the treble with 98/99 not certainly Irwins best season.
Rio's redemption came probably against Roma this season when he held together a weak defence with a spirited performance.
Stam is the best defender ever to have played for United atleast amongst those I've seen.
Rio's redemption came probably against Roma this season when he held together a weak defence with a spirited performance.
Stam is the best defender ever to have played for United atleast amongst those I've seen.
Perhaps because Stam didn't enjoy the luxury of a Rio Ferdinand beside him or a settled back four and goalkeeper.
Well put it this way, if you take Vidic out these last two seasons then arguably Utd would not have won 2 league titles and a CL. That is how important he has been. I think he will only get better to be honest, he is already so consistent so the only place for him to get better is on the ball.
How much did Stam go to Lazio for?
16.5m
Ta - That is a lot for sure. Who knows if Fergie kept Stam then Vidic probably would never have been bought. All speculation though
Some very interesting responses.....
Indeed, i did see that but keano was a hard task master to be sure. I cant agree with him. Its a point i often make.... rio and vida are not asked to do as much as stam was in the sense that they get alot more protection. Back in those days we knew stam one on one was as good as anyone so we often used to go two on two at the back!!! it was amazing to see.
Blanc...i know in his day he was a player but his time at the club i cant forget. Terrible signing from a very stubborn fergie at the time.
Indeed. He had ronny or berg beside him who were good defenders but neither at rio or vida's level.
At this point i should say in my eyes overall rio is the best defender in my lifetime at the club.
Stam is just after.
Vidic is superb but the only edge he has over stam is the goal threat. Stam had it all. If you're saying he couldnt play with the ball you are having a bloody laugh. Still remember one game think it was against sheff weds where he ran the ball from just in our half to their final third!!
Indeed, i did see that but keano was a hard task master to be sure. I cant agree with him. Its a point i often make.... rio and vida are not asked to do as much as stam was in the sense that they get alot more protection. Back in those days we knew stam one on one was as good as anyone so we often used to go two on two at the back!!! it was amazing to see.
Blanc...i know in his day he was a player but his time at the club i cant forget. Terrible signing from a very stubborn fergie at the time.
Indeed. He had ronny or berg beside him who were good defenders but neither at rio or vida's level.
At this point i should say in my eyes overall rio is the best defender in my lifetime at the club.
Stam is just after.
Vidic is superb but the only edge he has over stam is the goal threat. Stam had it all. If you're saying he couldnt play with the ball you are having a bloody laugh. Still remember one game think it was against sheff weds where he ran the ball from just in our half to their final third!!
in the 18 years i have been following united, rio is simply the best single defender i have seen at the club so far; and i would also then say that the partnership that he now has with vidic is the best i have seen.
i am so uber confident in our defence these days, even when up against the top teams in europe.
would jaap stam playing at the very top of his game make a better partner for rio?....shit i dont know! when i started typing i thought no, that he wouldnt, but the more i thought about it, the more i think he would.....
its a question i couldnt answer, they are both fantastic defenders. end of.
Aye. He really is that good.
Stam led our defence, Vidic doesn't.
Thats undeniably a factor, but by all accounts Vidic has had much the same effect on his previous club sides and the Serbian national team. I'll not bullshit and say I've watched vast amounts of him outside of Utd, but he's not just Rio's goon. He's an excellent leader and organiser in his own right.
Stam doubtless would have been even better with Rio beside him and suffered from Johnsen's constant injuries, but Schmeichel, Neville, Irwin and Johnsen/Berg was hardly a Three Stooges of a defence either.
Good post and I agree with almost all of it. Stam undoubtedly had a more taxing role than Vidic does, and I'd probably still rate him higher than Vidic, but by a razor thin margin. Stam was the best reactive (if that word even makes sense) defender I've ever seen. An incredible athlete with rdiculously good timing and bravery in the tackle. The more I see of Vidic though the more I think that he's got an edge in positional sense and possibly organisational skills, independent of him having better players alongside him or more favourable team tactics for a defender to excel in.
Sir Alex Ferguson claims he has "never worked with a better defender than Jaap Stam".
The Manchester United manager makes the statement in an upcoming book entitled 'Gewoon Jaap' (Just Jaap), to be released on Saturday to coincide with the player's testimonial.
In the book, he also admits again that selling the defender was one of the few big errors of his managerial career.
United sold Stam to Lazio in 2001, shortly after Stam made revelations about life in the Old Trafford dressing room in his autobiography 'Head to Head'. It was widely assumed that Stam's book prompted the sale.
However, Ferguson said it was purely a financial decision.
"I sold Jaap to Lazio because of the money that the club could earn," Ferguson said.
"His sudden departure had nothing to do with the publishing of his book. As manager I must look after the club's money. Lazio offered a lot of money and I gave into to that. I regret that.
"It was a huge blunder of mine. I don't make them often. Jaap was extremely popular with the fans. But every manager makes a bad decision at some time."
Ferguson said he remains a huge admirer of the defender, who went on to play for AC Milan and Ajax after his time at Lazio.
"I admired in Jaap's game his speed, his enormous power and he had an exceptional sharp tackle," Ferguson said. "Besides that he also had a great mentality.
"He was always focused and he never slacked, even during training. Others could take an example from that. In one-on-one situations he was the best in the world. I have never worked with a better defender than Jaap Stam."
Stam announced his immediate retirement last October after a 16-year career in which he earned 67 caps for Holland.
This should end this little debate
I think that part pretty much ends any debate whatsoever.
the guy thinks of raising his right hand to push stam away in the classic footballer push in your face stlye but stops himself because he realises that if he doesnt difuse the situation he will be swiftly destroyed.
The lazio players just take him away..."trust us..you dont want none of that"
I'm surprised Fergie doesn't rate Rio over Stam. I certainly do. He's simply the perfect defender. Pace, positioning, technique, strength... just everything.
Fergie didnt say stam was the best outright...he just said he's never worked with better....there is a difference and fergie always gives himself these loopholes.
Wouldnt surprise me a few months down the line if he says rio's the best defender he's worked with. But he's just trying to make the point of how good stam was in my opinion.
Its certainly close between them
Very true!
But had Stam played for United in the last couple of seasons, I dont see us missing out the European cup. In the treble season after a jittery start, he was easily the most influential player at United after Roy Keane.
I love Vida but i would edge it to Stam as well..... loved his temper and take-no-shit attitude.
Stam was outstanding.
I Love Vida, for me he is as good or better than anyone in the air, I've spent full games just focusing on his aerial skills, wonderful aerial ability - think thats why ther Rio/Vida partnership works so well - Vida great with the ball in the air, Rio great with the ball on the floor.
As for Stam I Agree with Fergie, probably the best defender we have had under SAF, awesome tackler - Vidic is sometimes a little clumsy in the challenge.
As for Stam I Agree with Fergie, probably the best defender we have had under SAF, awesome tackler - Vidic is sometimes a little clumsy in the challenge.
Sir Alex Ferguson claims he has "never worked with a better defender than Jaap Stam".
The Manchester United manager makes the statement in an upcoming book entitled 'Gewoon Jaap' (Just Jaap), to be released on Saturday to coincide with the player's testimonial.
In the book, he also admits again that selling the defender was one of the few big errors of his managerial career.
United sold Stam to Lazio in 2001, shortly after Stam made revelations about life in the Old Trafford dressing room in his autobiography 'Head to Head'. It was widely assumed that Stam's book prompted the sale.
However, Ferguson said it was purely a financial decision.
"I sold Jaap to Lazio because of the money that the club could earn," Ferguson said.
"His sudden departure had nothing to do with the publishing of his book. As manager I must look after the club's money. Lazio offered a lot of money and I gave into to that. I regret that.
"It was a huge blunder of mine. I don't make them often. Jaap was extremely popular with the fans. But every manager makes a bad decision at some time."
Ferguson said he remains a huge admirer of the defender, who went on to play for AC Milan and Ajax after his time at Lazio.
"I admired in Jaap's game his speed, his enormous power and he had an exceptional sharp tackle," Ferguson said. "Besides that he also had a great mentality.
"He was always focused and he never slacked, even during training. Others could take an example from that. In one-on-one situations he was the best in the world. I have never worked with a better defender than Jaap Stam."
Stam announced his immediate retirement last October after a 16-year career in which he earned 67 caps for Holland.
This should end this little debate
That won't be doing Rio's morale much good if he reads it, will it?