So what you are saying is that the guy who is building the positives and be replaced by someone who might not continue his work ?
Something special is building at Old Trafford
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
So what you are saying is that the guy who is building the positives and be replaced by someone who might not continue his work ?
That argument is so ignorant it makes me sad. Manchester is a large city in England’s north west. Football is played world over. To think that Manchester will forever produce a series of stars from academy, especially with all the rules around recruiting has to be one of the most inane arguments out there.
On the other hand, just because united hasn’t produced a generational talent in a while is no reason to not strive for it. Rashford is a glowing example of a player finding his place and growing in a role and even evolving the role to something new. We haven’t had that happen since early 2000s ( bar de gea ) when we allowed Ronaldo and Rooney to take the step up from raw talent to great end product. To a lesser extent with fletcher, who’s the academy lad that made a position his own. This transition only happens when kids are allowed to make mistakes and learn from them.
Not many were afforded the chance. That’s why premier league is littered with our academy graduates who have progressed far more than we’d have thought possible.
We are on the cusp of something special and if that anticipation, that joy of seeing an academy product making it at the club, the highs and lows that come with it, are not something you enjoy, then you are better served by following a club that’s currently successful.
I am perfectly content with following the rest of the football as a neutral while I get excited about one more bunch of academy graduates - even if to be disappointed again.
I think you are in a better place than both Liverpool and City were when Klopp/Pep turned, your squad is so much younger and brimming with talent. They both built squads, one with quite a clever transfer policy, the other with oil! Will everyone you have make it into a top class player ... of course not. But as these guys grow and play together they can only improve and if Ole turns out to be the right person or someone else comes in, you have potential that none of the other big 6 have. Maybe only Chelsea are in a similar situation with Mount, Abraham, Tomori, Hudson Odoi etc, but I'd still prefer your crop of youngsters over theirs.
It has the potential to be special, but a lot of work needs to be done both in squad quality and tactically. What I do like about Ole is that he's willing to sacrifice players who may help him get better results now to build towards a long-term plan. Whether he's actually good enough to see that through is a different discussion, but he's cleared out a lot of aging, deadwood, or disgruntled players in Lukaku, Sanchez, Darmian, Herrera, Young, Fellaini, and Smalling (actually like him but he wanted guaranteed playing time to work his way back into the England picture).
Additionally the players he's brought in slot nicely into the wage structure and help to stabilize it rather than adding to spiraling costs like what happened under Jose. This is simply a reality of business, and wasted big money transfers on players who didn't even provide the short-term success we thirsted for in their time here is why we are in a lower position than we'd hope for.
I think Ole has done well in the market and will leave a more cohesive group in place without a bloated squad that requires major turnover to go somwhere if/when he leaves. Moyes, LvG, and Jose simply didn't clear out the squad in the way they should have and instead seemed content to just keep players because they could do job and perhaps provide some marginal benefit, even if they weren't good enough. Instead Ole ripped off the band-aid and, for better or worse, is willing to lean on younger players to fill out his squad when needed.
He hasn't been perfect, but I really do believe we've operated a bit more shrewdly in getting our house in order since he's come in and that's very important to me.
Additionally the players he's brought in slot nicely into the wage structure and help to stabilize it rather than adding to spiraling costs like what happened under Jose. This is simply a reality of business, and wasted big money transfers on players who didn't even provide the short-term success we thirsted for in their time here is why we are in a lower position than we'd hope for.
I think Ole has done well in the market and will leave a more cohesive group in place without a bloated squad that requires major turnover to go somwhere if/when he leaves. Moyes, LvG, and Jose simply didn't clear out the squad in the way they should have and instead seemed content to just keep players because they could do job and perhaps provide some marginal benefit, even if they weren't good enough. Instead Ole ripped off the band-aid and, for better or worse, is willing to lean on younger players to fill out his squad when needed.
He hasn't been perfect, but I really do believe we've operated a bit more shrewdly in getting our house in order since he's come in and that's very important to me.
What is this heresy? A positive thread? Ban him now!
I do agree though, the future looks brighter than it has in some time now, and honestly i am looking forward to next season.
GK: Henderson.
LB: Williams
CB: Maguire
CB: ???
RB: AWB
CM: McTomminay
CM: ???
AM: Bruno?
LW: Rashford
ST: Martial
RW: Greenwood
There is still work to be done with the squad though. Lindelof is not good enough i think and in the middle of the park we need reinforcements. If Pogba wants to stay, great, but i would not bet money on it. We are about 3 players away from a very competent and VERY young first XI
I do agree though, the future looks brighter than it has in some time now, and honestly i am looking forward to next season.
GK: Henderson.
LB: Williams
CB: Maguire
CB: ???
RB: AWB
CM: McTomminay
CM: ???
AM: Bruno?
LW: Rashford
ST: Martial
RW: Greenwood
There is still work to be done with the squad though. Lindelof is not good enough i think and in the middle of the park we need reinforcements. If Pogba wants to stay, great, but i would not bet money on it. We are about 3 players away from a very competent and VERY young first XI
If we have something special brewing I wonder what Leicester has.
And yet they're miles ahead of everyone else in the table.
While I agree that our Frontline has potential, I think comparing them with Liverpool's Frontline is just playing with stats because their Frontline does so much more than just score goals.
So your whole issue is that I responded to someone on a discussion forum? Oh, ok.
Like I said, I understand you're just here to spam negativity, but give yourself a break. You've contributed ~10 posts to this thread and it's just been bile and bullcrap.
No wonder you're bored with the discussion - you're not thinking, you're ejaculating.
You can both ignore me if I'm that irritating because unfortunately for you I'm not going to change as long as I'm not breaking the rules so I can't solve your problems, sorry. I'm going to post my opinions on a football forum the way I like as long it's within the forum rules. Anything more than that, I don't care what and how anyone feels about me or my posts here.
I'm not suggesting the quality of our front three is currently comparable with Liverpool's, it's just an interesting stat which surprised me. They do have great potential though and in a couple of years if they continue on this trajectory they'll be up there with the best.
But that's the hardest part - hiring a top class manager. We always have stars in our academy and talented young players in our squad. Martial, Rashford, Mctominay etc were with us under Mourinho. Greenwood was tearing it up at youth levels, among other very good talents. The issue is finding a manager who can pull it all together.
I agree, there are positives in games for us. The issue at the moment is we can't seem to do it for long enough to get lets say 1-0 or 2-0 then we can just release some intensity let the other team play for 10-15 mins hit them on the break. Lets be honest we cannot expect this team to play 90 mins of attacking pressing play.
We have to be clever how we do it, in 10-15 min spells. We saw what a half decent creative player can do in Mata, I hope when we do have one in his prime we will create alot more.
Despite people moaning about Ole not being an experienced manager he's got more balls than any of our recent managers. He's the only one that is embarking on shipping out the dead wood while promoting youth and signing players better suited to United.
Agree with this, I'm not sure he's the best tactical manager ever and along with Carrick and McKenna as a group they certainly lack experience. But he is a selfless manager despite what his critics say and he is building for the long term, rather than a short term fix like for example Jose.
Great thread OP.. Packs more of a punch because it comes from an opposition supporter.
My hope is that he's the kind of guy who is smart and any tactical weaknesses he feels he lacks he'll structure the backroom staff to deal with it.
We already have a manager that is pulling it all together. I think it needs to be reiterated sometimes because he isn't getting enough credit for the work that has been done.
When we look at what has happened in the last 12 months it doesn't seem that difficult. Selling the players that shouldn't be here, giving our kids a chance, being more careful with our recruitment. Sounds simple and obvious, but the only way it would have happened was if we hired a manager that put the club before themselves, and how many managers out there do you think would have been willing to do that? We look at the things that have happened and accept them as reality, and with that we also convince ourselves that they would have happened regardless. Rashford would definitely have improved as much as has. McTominay would have gone up a level regardless. Greenwood would always have come through and scored goals. Williams would have emerged. etc etc etc.
The truth is though that there is no guarantee that any of that would have happened, and for that Ole deserves credit. He gets a lot of stick for not being a top class manager, but he is getting a better tune out of many of our players than Mourinho was. People talk about tactics a lot, without giving enough thought to the notion that it takes time to build a pattern of play, especially when you inherit a squad that have been coached to play the Mourinho way and are then asked to try and be something quite different. He gets no credit as a tactician, despite the number of big name managers that we have beaten under him.
People think that he gets an easier ride because of his United past. That might be true to some extent, but it is also undoubtedly true that he gets a harder time than he should because he isn't a big managerial name.
I think "teacher" would be more apt in that example going from the level of discourse.
El3mel: 1+ 1 is = 3
Teacher: 1 + 1 is = 2
El3mel: You're delusional, deluded!
Fixed it. Thanks.
There is something brewing, but I'm not entirely sure what it is. Sometimes I see positives and hints of something good to pursue, but most of the time I just see conjecture and buzzwords to distract from under-achievements on and off the field.
If it was made known that Ole is a longer-term caretaker manager or a placeholder, I would feel a lot more comfortable with our situation knowing he's laying the groundwork for a better coach to come in and move it forward.
But if Ole is that guy, I don't feel comfortable with that. He isn't a good enough coach, in my opinion, to be that guy.
If it was made known that Ole is a longer-term caretaker manager or a placeholder, I would feel a lot more comfortable with our situation knowing he's laying the groundwork for a better coach to come in and move it forward.
But if Ole is that guy, I don't feel comfortable with that. He isn't a good enough coach, in my opinion, to be that guy.
So far he is making progress. If that comes to a halt, he will be replaced. I really can't see the reason for worrying about how he will turn out in the end.
That is why he could maybe work as a DOF. Especially since he has been frustrated by the board with the transfers, he probably knows how he would like to improve the running of our transfer business.
His limitations with tactics and coaching are what make many people think he would not be the best manager on the long-term.
Agree.
As far back as the summer I and many people were saying that Ole may not be successful but he is building a good foundation for the next manager.
Ye I've said many times that I view him as a long term caretaker.
He's brought many positives here that would be a shame to lose if we sacked him. Unfortunately he isn't the tactical genius we also need. But that can be addressed with a shake up in coaching staff. Hopefully he can get rid of some deadwood there also.
He's brought many positives here that would be a shame to lose if we sacked him. Unfortunately he isn't the tactical genius we also need. But that can be addressed with a shake up in coaching staff. Hopefully he can get rid of some deadwood there also.
Agreed there is a nucleus there which could potentially go on to do great things. I believe Ole should get credit for that. He has put the club in a position where the majority of the dead wood has now gone, and there seems to be some positivity around the place.
Now hand over to Poch who can take us forward from a footballing sense. Ole seems perfect for a DOF type role
Now hand over to Poch who can take us forward from a footballing sense. Ole seems perfect for a DOF type role
OGS has shown he´s not afraid to clear out those not good enough in Fellaini,Lukaku,Sanzhez,Herrera(wanted to leave),Darmian,Valencia,Smalling and now Young. I think Jones,Bailly,Rojo,Matic and possibly Lingard and Mata(due to age) will not be a part of the long term future of Man Utd. OGS is overseeing a drastic overhaul of a 30 man squad or so. The combinded salary cost of those sold or on loan was around 900-1 million pounds per week. It could be argued that when you have Fellaini and Young at 120k per week and Darmian at 70k per week that´s hardly an example of a football club getting much in return. I agree that we are moving in the right direction BUT we need to invest in 2 to 3 players this window and then another 4 to 5 in the summer after clearing out the rest of the deadwood. Rashford,McTominey,Williams and Greenwood plus the other youngsters behind them excite me and now United must buy wisely in the next 2 windows. When you look at the last 6 years of signings you can hardly pinpoint a roaring succes until last summer as I quite like those signings. It speaks volumes that the most exciting players at the club after United have spent over 900 million on signings are homegrown youngsters.
The clearing of the deadwood has been brilliant under Ole. Rojo will most likely be gone this window as well.
We then have the issue of getting rid of the injury prone players, Jones, Shaw, Bailly. Throw Lingard into the mix as well. If Ole remains, I imagine at least 2 of those players will be sold in the Summer.
We then have the issue of getting rid of the injury prone players, Jones, Shaw, Bailly. Throw Lingard into the mix as well. If Ole remains, I imagine at least 2 of those players will be sold in the Summer.
Ole has done an okay job in incredibly tough circumstances.
The removal of a lot of the deadwood has been one of his biggest successes. The promotion of Greenwood and Williams the other.
The removal of a lot of the deadwood has been one of his biggest successes. The promotion of Greenwood and Williams the other.
I'd add the improvement of Rashford, McTominay and Fred as well.
Agreed.
Still huge room for improvement though. We really need to get a proper midfield and start playing like a big club again rather than an underdog counter attacking one.
There are signs there that some of the right steps are being taken but the problem is how long will it take and how far behind we could fall in the meantime.
So we shouldn't be excited about the talented players at the club?
Why would we fall further behind if we are taking the right steps?
I do believe you could be right, young man.
He's a miserable bugger. I think he's clinically depressed!
Leicester has A good manager. A good manager at United with this team will be in a similar position or higher in the table than leceister. You have to remember MMM(M3) has outscored Mane Firmino and Salah. We have the tools to compete, but lacks the coaching and slowly developing the structure.
That is why I predicted that United will finish top four this season. I m surprised we aren’t in top four, but the season isn’t over.
Leiceister have a good midfield as well. We barely have one. That is why I am willing to give Ole time. People who bash ole without nuance are just result oriented. When we have a squad similar to Chelsea's depth and quality and we keep getting these erratic results and performances then I will gladly say Ole has got to go. But for now there are some good things he is doing and building towards and I am willing to give him the time.
Why do people overrate Herrara so much. I loved him for his hustle and how he always played with his heart on his sleeve, but he wasn't that good. Mind you, I bet he's regretting leaving seeing as he can hardly get a game in (when healthy) at PSG
This is the caf. Fans over rate everyone that leaves united. Have you seen some of the posts about Smalling, Lukaku, Evans?
He clearly went for the money rather than playing time. There was no way he was getting into that team with Veratti and Gueye.
I assume he is perfectly happy on the bench collecting his wages.
Even Gueye (who I thought we should have gone after a couple of years ago) is having trouble getting playing time
I think Gueye is signed for the big Champions League games rather than league games because they don't really need a CDM in the league.
They have come unstuck in CL knock outs which I have a feeling Gueye would start.