Something special is building at Old Trafford

Denis' cuff said:
What has "romanticism." got to do with giving him time? A silly, cliched, lazy label because he scored a winner in the CL final 20 years ago. He has had 12 months in the job and one window. Doing OK as far as we can see. He is earning his time now. Because some FM experts think we should be transformed overnight and their shiny, trophyless Poch didn't happen, they are quick to jump in on an Internet forum, every time something doesn't conform to their ."vision". We're not going to repeat Fergie levels of success again. Ever.mit never happened before and is unlikely to happen. again. Not having a go at you, particularly, mate but it is a regular nonsense trotted out on here.
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The only "nonsense" trotted out on this forum is this rhetoric right here.

Romanticism has everything to do with it, it's why the club hired him in the first place and it's why people here continue to want him to be given about 3 seasons and 6 transfer windows to do whatever he wants to do.

That "shiny trophyless Poch" that everyone worships as you say has accomplished more than Ole has in his entire managerial career, and yet he hasn't won anything, so what does that tell you? "Poch hasn't won anything he was sacked!" They'll tell you as reasons why he shouldn't be manager and yet in the same breath they'll say "You can't judge Ole on getting Cardiff relegated!" As a form of defence it's damn hypocritical for starters. It tells you that the only reason he is anywhere near this club is because he used to play for us, and is a club legend as a player, do you honestly think the club would have approached him otherwise? No, they would not have.

Was everyone clamouring for David Moyes? Well guess what, even he has better credentials than Ole for the job and a better record for us at one point, yet everyone's like no no, time, time, give time, despite the fact it's so obvious how one dimensional and lacklustre we are. So why? The club certainly didn't hire him for his credentials, and the fans certainly aren't crying out to give him time etc because of the scintillating football we play, so please tell me why it is people continue to want him managing us when there are better prospects out there?

I'll answer that for you, it's because of the "romanticism", it's the idea that as a club we are above everyone else and every manager deserves time regardless blah blah blah. Barcelona just sacked their manager despite how they've been doing the past few seasons.. why? Because they are run like an actual football club and they went out and got a man they thought better suited to the job.

This club could have Guardiola, Klopp and Prime Fergie as free agents right now to pick from and they'd still keep going with Solksjaer because they are reactionary and useless.

This is why the club is in such a mediocre state, everybody wants to give time, oh he's had 12 months and he's doing ok? Please enlighten everyone as to how good we are as a football team on the pitch? "B-b-but he needs like 10 players!" I'll admit the team is young but you can still imprint a modern style of actual good football but we don't even get that.

Nobody who wants "Ole out" is crying because they want the Fergie dominance back immediately, they're "crying" because they want to get away from it and get a modern manager with modern ideas in and not waste time on a manager who won't take us anywhere significant, and as much as I love the man, I don't think he will, this isn't me "hating" on him, it's me not burying my head in the sand and hoping he comes good in 4/5/6 years, when, as this thread states, we have a good talented bunch of young players coming through. Good, so let's get them the coaching they deserve then.
 
L1nk said:
The only "nonsense" trotted out on this forum is this rhetoric right here.

Romanticism has everything to do with it, it's why the club hired him in the first place and it's why people here continue to want him to be given about 3 seasons and 6 transfer windows to do whatever he wants to do.

That "shiny trophyless Poch" that everyone worships as you say has accomplished more than Ole has in his entire managerial career, and yet he hasn't won anything, so what does that tell you? "Poch hasn't won anything he was sacked!" They'll tell you as reasons why he shouldn't be manager and yet in the same breath they'll say "You can't judge Ole on getting Cardiff relegated!" As a form of defence it's damn hypocritical for starters. It tells you that the only reason he is anywhere near this club is because he used to play for us, and is a club legend as a player, do you honestly think the club would have approached him otherwise? No, they would not have.

Was everyone clamouring for David Moyes? Well guess what, even he has better credentials than Ole for the job and a better record for us at one point, yet everyone's like no no, time, time, give time, despite the fact it's so obvious how one dimensional and lacklustre we are. So why? The club certainly didn't hire him for his credentials, and the fans certainly aren't crying out to give him time etc because of the scintillating football we play, so please tell me why it is people continue to want him managing us when there are better prospects out there?

I'll answer that for you, it's because of the "romanticism", it's the idea that as a club we are above everyone else and every manager deserves time regardless blah blah blah. Barcelona just sacked their manager despite how they've been doing the past few seasons.. why? Because they are run like an actual football club and they went out and got a man they thought better suited to the job.

This club could have Guardiola, Klopp and Prime Fergie as free agents right now to pick from and they'd still keep going with Solksjaer because they are reactionary and useless.

This is why the club is in such a mediocre state, everybody wants to give time, oh he's had 12 months and he's doing ok? Please enlighten everyone as to how good we are as a football team on the pitch? "B-b-but he needs like 10 players!" I'll admit the team is young but you can still imprint a modern style of actual good football but we don't even get that.

Nobody who wants "Ole out" is crying because they want the Fergie dominance back immediately, they're "crying" because they want to get away from it and get a modern manager with modern ideas in and not waste time on a manager who won't take us anywhere significant, and as much as I love the man, I don't think he will, this isn't me "hating" on him, it's me not burying my head in the sand and hoping he comes good in 4/5/6 years, when, as this thread states, we have a good talented bunch of young players coming through. Good, so let's get them the coaching they deserve then.
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Actually, people who want to see Ole stay on do so because they like the progress we have made as a club. And believe me, there has been progress, even if you’re a bit too stupid and fickle to see it;)
 
Zen86 said:
Actually, people who want to see Ole stay on do so because they like the progress we have made as a club. And believe me, there has been progress, even if you’re a bit too stupid and fickle to see it;)
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Nah not exactly, the only stupid and fickle one here is you apparently, top red ;). I mean if I'm fickle because I don't want to give average managers about 10 years at the club, then yeah you know what, call me fickle all you want actually.

Please, enlighten me as to the progress, oh exhalted one. And don't say, oh he gives youngsters a chance, so did LVG and Mourinho, it's not exactly a world exclusive and don't say he's buying players and selling players, again, every manager does that.
 
I agree with the OP. The most important factor under Ole and perhaps the main reason I have felt the need to stick with him, is that for the first time (as you've pointed out) it actually feels like we are actually in transition. No matter how much we spent previously it only ever felt like we were adding dead wood to the fire, with no meaningful change of direction.

What Ole has done has been quite drastic and frankly brave. The summer dealings left us light in midfield and up top however it truly has forced us in an altogether different direction, in hindsight it's given us a path to follow with these youngsters and a base to build on.

I could not be happier with how the squad is coming together and especially if you add Bruno into the mix and a top four finish.

If Ole achieved that then it would be huge for the summer window and it would be hard for anybody to argue this season of transition hasn’t been a success.
 
L1nk said:
Nah not exactly, the only stupid and fickle one here is you apparently, top red ;). I mean if I'm fickle because I don't want to give average managers about 10 years at the club, then yeah you know what, call me fickle all you want actually.

Please, enlighten me as to the progress, oh exhalted one. And don't say, oh he gives youngsters a chance, so did LVG and Mourinho, it's not exactly a world exclusive and don't say he's buying players and selling players, again, every manager does that.
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Try reading the OP. No doubt you’ll carry on waffling about whatever your post was about though. “Modern football” or something.
 
The potential of our team is crazy.

Its mouthwatering to think of how this team may look like in a few years if all goes according to plan. Imagine a team consisting of; Henderson, Williams, Laird, Garner, Levitt, Greenwood, Gomes, and Rashford cementing that left wing position, and they all reached their full potential (even though it's highly unlikely every single one reaches a world-class level).
One of the reasons why I fell in love with this club is the faith we put in youth, and its fantastic to see it happening right infront of us.


We've had som dreadful games this season, but also a few games were we performed at a level I haven't seen in many, many years. This squad could really become something special if handled right.
 
I do feel like we have something good building under Ole and we are one or two pieces away from a great team again. I had it a little with LVG and I am still in the Ole in camp until that feeling goes.
 
Zen86 said:
Actually, people who want to see Ole stay on do so because they like the progress we have made as a club. And believe me, there has been progress, even if you’re a bit too stupid and fickle to see it;)
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We've gone backwards.
Why do I say this? Because results are worse than they were 2 years ago.

You'll argue that results don't matter. I would argue that results are everything and that winning is the most important thing in all pro sports.
LFC are being hailed. Why? Because they are winning and top of the league. You think they would be lauded if they were in 5th?
 
bondsname said:
One of the reasons why I fell in love with this club is the faith we put in youth, and its fantastic to see it happening right infront of us.
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With Fergie, he put trust in youth. I agree with this.
But there were major differences.
In 1992, we had Fergie who had won big trophies with a smallish team. A team that had no right to be winning a European trophy (with Aberdeen).
in 2020, we have a manager is arguably the worst in the league.
When Fergie introduced the youngsters, he did so slowly and more than half the team were actually experienced players - not youngsters. Leaders, even.
In 2020, we don't really have experienced players who are leaders and will fight. We have a bunch of players like Mata, Matic, etc, who have a history of going missing in many games.
And finally, let's not forget that times have moved on. The structure of our club is lagging far behind that of top clubs and this will hold us back.

Put it this way, while Woodward is in charge, I don't see us ever winning the league. His strategy is to make as much money as he can. In 1992, the aim was win trophies.
Times have changed.
 
RUCK4444 said:
I agree with the OP. The most important factor under Ole and perhaps the main reason I have felt the need to stick with him, is that for the first time (as you've pointed out) it actually feels like we are actually in transition. No matter how much we spent previously it only ever felt like we were adding dead wood to the fire, with no meaningful change of direction.

What Ole has done has been quite drastic and frankly brave. The summer dealings left us light in midfield and up top however it truly has forced us in an altogether different direction, in hindsight it's given us a path to follow with these youngsters and a base to build on.

I could not be happier with how the squad is coming together and especially if you add Bruno into the mix and a top four finish.

If Ole achieved that then it would be huge for the summer window and it would be hard for anybody to argue this season of transition hasn’t been a success.
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Spot on.
 
fergosaurus said:
That's an insane stat which I find difficult to compute considering the vast difference in quality between the teams. If they can do this with no creative spark in the team and questionable tactics it bodes well for when we address those issues.
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Sounds bonkers, especially as Martial was out for months.
But Greenwood has scored 7, and a lot in the lesser cups, so that helps the stat a lot.
 
11101 said:
I do feel like we have something good building under Ole and we are one or two pieces away from a great team again. I had it a little with LVG and I am still in the Ole in camp until that feeling goes.
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I know what you mean, but I would have said three or four pieces to be honest.
 
sunama said:
With Fergie, he put trust in youth. I agree with this.
But there were major differences.
In 1992, we had Fergie who had won big trophies with a smallish team. A team that had no right to be winning a European trophy (with Aberdeen).
in 2020, we have a manager is arguably the worst in the league.
When Fergie introduced the youngsters, he did so slowly and more than half the team were actually experienced players - not youngsters. Leaders, even.
In 2020, we don't really have experienced players who are leaders and will fight. We have a bunch of players like Mata, Matic, etc, who have a history of going missing in many games.
And finally, let's not forget that times have moved on. The structure of our club is lagging far behind that of top clubs and this will hold us back.

Put it this way, while Woodward is in charge, I don't see us ever winning the league. His strategy is to make as much money as he can. In 1992, the aim was win trophies.
Times have changed.
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We're in the same boat. My post was mostly about the potential of our youth players, and how hypothetically our team could look like in the future If everything comes together right.

In reality, we would be lucky if one our two academy graduates turned out to become world class. Especially under the current regime.
 
This is why Ole is good for us right now. We are at a stage where we need the manager to truly care about how we progress in the long term because we have not had had the usual level of talent that we are used to. The brand and the finances of the club are still at the highest level, but on the pitch we have been really lacking in talent. A manager seeking to simply do a good job with not much passion for the job would seek to cover those massive holes with short term fixes like mourinho did. He was more concerned with protecting his legacy than having passion for the long term success of the club. It's 2020 and almost all of his signings are either not starting or are on their way out of the club.

LVG did something very similar. He chopped and changed the squad so quickly without having a true plan as to how he wanted the team to look. He sold all of our effective wingers or converted them to full backs leaving us bare in those departments for years while abandoning the 352 he hoped to build with only a few months after making those erratic decisions. He then proceeded to sign as many cheap and mediocre players as he could find and left us with a squad where the only players that start that played during his reign are Martial and ones that he did not buy. Again, his aim was to be viewed as a saviour for the club, violently chopping and changing, without truly building anything significant and bringing any true lasting change.

Ole on the other hand has rigorously worked with what he has been given, never pointing fingers or bringing additional chaos to the club, despite having so may challenging players and circumstances to deal with. He has used the disadvantages brought upon him by injuries and stalling by woodward to give chances to young players, not making too many demands of the board and sticking to his initial plan for the rebuild. People will say that Mourinho gave Mctominay his chance, but it was ole that truly gave him the opportunity to flourish. Best of all, he has a transfer policy that falls in line with the way the club want to build and has effectively selected players that have all been proven to be useful to the current team. Our fans like to kid where we and the talent of the players we have at our squad are. We have been nowhere near where we should be talent wise. Jose in particular had to deal with a real dearth of talent in the squad. Most managers would not be able to handle such a long rebuilding process as it requires lots of time and patience moving from truly mediocre to a league challenging team without having the licence to buy 6 expensive players every window.
 
The next step to getting us back where we want to be is to truly analyze the Pogba situation. Does he fit what we want to be as a team? Is he willing to change his attitude to suit the disciplined culture that the club wants to bring back? Does he see United as a club worth waiting for if we cannot challenge within his timeline? We need all these answers to be a yes for us to feel the need to keep Pogba, as he has already proven to be a destabilizing factor to the club. We need to get rid of the wrong personalities and start bringing in the right people again. It was something that ourselves and Chelsea used to consistently get right and where arsenal, despite all of the talent they had, always got wrong. It's why we have had consistent sicknotes constantly parading themselves as man utd players, it's why we have been begging players like shaw to get into shape and improve his tactical awareness, it is also why players like jesse lingard who consistantly underperform to the standards of the club are still here after years of poor performances. We need to regain the standards we once had as a club, in terms of on the pitch quality and character off the pitch.
 
sunama said:
We've gone backwards.
Why do I say this? Because results are worse than they were 2 years ago.

You'll argue that results don't matter. I would argue that results are everything and that winning is the most important thing in all pro sports.
LFC are being hailed. Why? Because they are winning and top of the league. You think they would be lauded if they were in 5th?
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Liverpool weren’t being hailed 2 years ago.
 
RUCK4444 said:
I agree with the OP. The most important factor under Ole and perhaps the main reason I have felt the need to stick with him, is that for the first time (as you've pointed out) it actually feels like we are actually in transition. No matter how much we spent previously it only ever felt like we were adding dead wood to the fire, with no meaningful change of direction.

What Ole has done has been quite drastic and frankly brave. The summer dealings left us light in midfield and up top however it truly has forced us in an altogether different direction, in hindsight it's given us a path to follow with these youngsters and a base to build on.

I could not be happier with how the squad is coming together and especially if you add Bruno into the mix and a top four finish.

If Ole achieved that then it would be huge for the summer window and it would be hard for anybody to argue this season of transition hasn’t been a success.
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This is so true. All the people who are calling for his head are playing this Football manager style. I expected him to clear the deadwood and honestly I didn't expect it would be this fast. All we need to do is get rid of players who are not good enough/over the hill (I am talking to you Lingard) slowly and let this team develop and add 1-2 additions as necessary every transfer window to get us closer to the top. Whether he can win the title? Only future can say but one thing for sure, the team is definitely moving in the right direction.
 
sunama said:
We've gone backwards.
Why do I say this? Because results are worse than they were 2 years ago.

You'll argue that results don't matter. I would argue that results are everything and that winning is the most important thing in all pro sports.
LFC are being hailed. Why? Because they are winning and top of the league. You think they would be lauded if they were in 5th?
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We are not owed results, the position we were in after 6 years of shithousery by three managers doesn’t allow you that luxury.

People still act like we are the Manchester United of old, under Fergie, expected to win every game. We’re not.

Now you could argue we should never have let the club slip so far away from that expectation. But we did.

We can get back there, and yes results are important, but we needed this overhaul so badly, an evolving young side will inevitably be inconsistent at first. People know this but demand Fergie results and we are just not there yet.
 
BluesJr said:
I do agree with this actually despite our struggles. I still have my doubts about Ole and think it could end up being Poch that benefits the most from this team. Regardless of that though, if we added Bruno and Soumare this window and somehow kept Pogba (unlikely but I wouldn’t say impossible at this stage) then we our team is looking very strong. Rashford is on the cusp of being a very special player, it has that feel to it. Defenders are really starting to fear him and I think he’s got a very dominant performance in him coming soon which will elevate his confidence to new heights.
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Yeah agree. Hopefully we'll look back in a few years and thank Ole for doing a dirty job no-one else was brave enough to take on.
 
The front 3 of Martial, Rash and Greenwood is exciting. AWB and James will also have a role in future teams depending on how their weaknesses smooth out. The rest are so far from being a sure thing it's hard to tell. 'Golden crop' situations rarely ever seem to pan out in football
 
Good post. I think we are on track for something special.

We have played shit for so many years. Now it’s a young exciting team with ups and downs. We play a lot more exciting and it’s great to see the players developing from game to game. It’s going to be great.

All the shit Ole get is embarrassing.
 
I agree there is something special brewing. For the first time in years there seems to be an order and direction to where we are going in terms of our squad. Most of the players are playing well, our deficiencies come from one or two problem areas of the pitch which our manager has clearly noticed and is working on getting in players for those positions. With 2 signings this January, we will be in the top 4. And 2 - 4 more signings in the summer will ensure we have a great next season under Ole.
He has been great in my opinion with the injuries he has faced, a squad that is made of young unproven players and a few oldies. He has built a solid core and has never once complained about not having enough players or injuries.

People do not understand how important that is. It is why things can seem so low at one point and then bounce back so well the next.
The day he starts to complain is the beginning of the end for him. His positivity which people use against him is what’s made the players continue to play for him . It’s whats keeping him in the job. And he knows this. He is very intelligent and knows man management. Or atleast he learnt the path not to follow with mourinho.
 
Ole will ultimately not make it as our manager but he will leave us in a far better position than we were before he came and he will leave some fond memories to boot. As one of my favourite players I was concerned he might start to damage his legacy if things turned sour but I actually don't fear that now, the draws and losses are still frustrating but I do look forward to games more than I did under anyone since Sir Alex.
 
The Boy said:
This isn’t about Ole or whether he’s good enough or not. Whoever your manager is in one or two years time they could have something very special on their hands.

The core of your team is young, very young and they’re growing together, The Athletic have done a piece about how Martial, Rashford and Greenwood have outscored Mane, Salah and Firminho so far this season. Put that alongside the growth in players like AWB, James, McT, Williams, that’s seven players aged 24 or younger all looking the business. Add in the possibilities like Laird, Garner and Tuanzebe and the future looks very bright.

This season maybe erratic but actually for once you truly are a team in transition. Key older players from the past few years are gone or being phased out and they are being replaced by fresh talented youngsters. That’s not something you’ve been able to say for years, since before SAF left.

If you get Fernandes this window, that could well be another key part of the puzzle. Maguire and Lindelof are 26 and 25 respectively, the next 4 years should see them at their peak as well.

Whoever your manager is in 2 years time will be incredibly lucky, a very talented core is coming of age at OT and though you might be disappointed or frustrated this season, soon you’ll be the envy of most clubs. The ground is being laid superbly at the moment.
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Agreed.
 
Nice OP, good feel thread. How depressed are the folks acting miserable about Ole in such a thread. I just hope majority of fans wont get so bitter they turn against our young players just so the future wont look so bright.
 
MikeKing said:
Nice OP, good feel thread. How depressed are the folks acting miserable about Ole in such a thread. I just hope majority of fans wont get so bitter they turn against our young players just so the future wont look so bright.
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It's been quite tempered in fairness. If this thread was started by a United fan it'd been all hands to the pump!
 
Really enjoying the rebuild have to say, there have been poor results and performances, and great results and performances but you expect that, so many young players, not just getting a chance for the sake of it but they are contributing now, we beat wolves yesterday, a very good team and I have to admit for a lot of it they were more cohesive and better than us but the result aside the biggest high out of it was the performance of Williams, the performance he produced was exceptional, there is so much negativity and confusion amongst the fan base, what is our system etc, when you see Williams do what he did you know he is being encouraged to do so, as no doubt were Young and Shaw but they just cannot do it, when you get the right players in in this culture, whether signed or through the academy they will flourish, it takes time, a lot of fans are impatient, Ole is not just building but having to undo a few failed regimes of short term thinking, we are definitely heading in the right direction.
 
Agree with the OP. United have so much good young talent. With a couple of shrewd transfers and a better understanding between some of the newer players and they could be challenging soon.
 
Whether Ole is the right long term manager or not, I like what he is doing with the squad that's why I'm trying to deal with my frustrations even though some of the tactics can peel my feathers.

I want to see who he brings in the transfer windows.

We are a Kalvin Phillips type player away in a summer transfer window or the next January transfer window to potentially have a UK based Carrick type player in our squad again & I really admire that - & I see that happening mostly from Ole than anyone else.

Henderson may become the best English keeper in God knows how long & one that actually comes off his line to help our defence since a decade.

Once all the young players are settled then it maybe the time to get a manager who looks to bring a bit more vital experience in key positions where the young players haven't been able to reach up to standards.
 
For once, it feels nice to actually read a good positive thread on here for a change.
 
I don't think we are building well given the money we have, but our academy has been very good at producing top players recently. 3-4 starters from it at the moment I would say and they often look like our best players. Rashford and Mctominay has probably been our best players this season overall. The signings Ole made are alright, but no world beaters. I think Wan Bissaka could develop into one under better attacking coaching. Maguire is playing at his level now and it is fighting for top 4 level.
Lindelöf is the same really and that was the case from the start with him.

I think Fred and Martial got top/world class in them, but they are also very much up and down. Think you need a great coach to teach them to know when to pass and how to move better.

So I do think we got a decent foundation in midfield and attack needing 2 top players to boost it, but the defense is still tricky. Also need to sort out our keeper.
 
RUCK4444 said:
We are not owed results, the position we were in after 6 years of shithousery by three managers doesn’t allow you that luxury.

People still act like we are the Manchester United of old, under Fergie, expected to win every game. We’re not.

Now you could argue we should never have let the club slip so far away from that expectation. But we did.

We can get back there, and yes results are important, but we needed this overhaul so badly, an evolving young side will inevitably be inconsistent at first. People know this but demand Fergie results and we are just not there yet.
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Exactly. Another manager and we become more unstable. Slow steps.
 
Lindelof in his "prime", I can hardly wait.....
 
Massive Spanner said:
Some positives there for sure but sadly under our current ownership we still won't get anywhere.

Also really don't agree with Maguire and Lindelof part. The former is just about good enough for a top four club and the latter isn't good enough at this level.
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By what measure? In ideal - I hear you, but in reality - let's look at current top 4 PL teams: Pool, City, Leicester, and Chelsea. Which one do you honestly think has better CB duo than Maguire-Lindelof?
 
It's a bit optimistic to suggest that "something special" is brewing at Old Traffic, but there's no doubt we have a core group of very promising young players.

But we're still woefully thin in midfield (Bruno will help, but only help) and the jury is out for me on Lindelof. The genuine excitement is about Rashford and Greenwood but we really can't say that either is on track to becoming world class footballers. Maybe, maybe even probably, but definitely not definitely.

When I think of special, I think of a team capable of winning the treble. The core group we're talking about will need at least several more bodies of a near-world class quality to allow us entertain comparisons with 98-99 and 07-08. And their development -- Rashford, et al -- needs to accelerate from their current pace of development.
 
L1nk said:
Nah not exactly, the only stupid and fickle one here is you apparently, top red ;). I mean if I'm fickle because I don't want to give average managers about 10 years at the club, then yeah you know what, call me fickle all you want actually.

Please, enlighten me as to the progress, oh exhalted one. And don't say, oh he gives youngsters a chance, so did LVG and Mourinho, it's not exactly a world exclusive and don't say he's buying players and selling players, again, every manager does that.
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I suspect he called you stupid because your ranting doesn't appear to be especially intelligent, but I'm just guessing.

The weird thing about this idea that Ole is "average" and isn't "a modern manager with modern ideas" is that we are 5th, at a time when two of the teams above us are perhaps the best teams English football has ever seen, and when every team below us has enough money to recruit the best managers available anywhere in the world.

There seems to be consensus that our squad still sucks, so, to use your words, "please, enlighten me, oh exalted one" as to how we are in 5th if Ole is so bang-average?
 
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