I am not sure if Ole is the man to take us forward but I definitely see him leaving a better squad for the next manager.
Something special is building at Old Trafford
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
I guess.
I prefer Pogba, Fred and Mctominay over N’Didi, Chouroudi and Tielsman any day of the week. Even our subsidiary midfield in Pereira, Garner and Matic is >= to their first team midfield. I don’t understand why our players keep getting underrated on here. The fact that MMM has outscored Mane, Firmino and Salah, shows we have a potent attack. Our midfield is solid as well and have seen us defeat numerous top team and go an extensive win record last season. It can improve, but there is no way the likes of Leceister, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal midfield/team are significantly better than ours.
So then it's clearly the coaching.
He was a hard worker and tactically sound but yeah, he was certainly not a world beater, but sadly was still our 2nd best midfielder. Fred's improvements mean I would probably take him instead now if it was a choice between the two.
The only midfielder he would be ahead of is Matic. He would definitely be good to still have as a squad player though...
Pereira, Garner is a bit much, but I agree with the sentiment. I think we have a better defence with Williams (don’t overly rate Chilwell), although it’s up for debate. Certainly have a better midfield and a more youthful, energetic attack.
I think the reason the squad is being underrated is pretty obvious though. It’s to protect a manager who should be doing better.
Clearing out the deadwood, instilling the right team spirit, focus on youth and only signing players that want to be here is great dont get me wrong but the problem is it doesnt happen overnight and theres days like the West Ham/Newcastle/Watford away games in the meantime.
Something special is what we had under Sir Alex which is unlikely to ever be duplicated by anyone so I wouldn’t call what’s currently happening special, I’d say it’s a foundation based on our traditions and virtues as a club.
I look at the core of De Gea, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, McTominay, James, Williams, Tuanzebe, Garner and see a group that will most likely be at the forefront over the next 5-10 years and IF we were to add players like Sancho, Maddison and Fernandes to that group they also fit that description.
Ole knows the traditions of the club having spent 11 years at the club as a player under Sir Alex then as reserves manager so he knows what players/characters are needed although I don’t think he’s a good enough coach to push them on, if we got Pochettino in whilst keeping the traditions we could push on.
I look at the core of De Gea, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, McTominay, James, Williams, Tuanzebe, Garner and see a group that will most likely be at the forefront over the next 5-10 years and IF we were to add players like Sancho, Maddison and Fernandes to that group they also fit that description.
Ole knows the traditions of the club having spent 11 years at the club as a player under Sir Alex then as reserves manager so he knows what players/characters are needed although I don’t think he’s a good enough coach to push them on, if we got Pochettino in whilst keeping the traditions we could push on.
I thought Van Gaal was also building something special in 2016. Even though I wanted him upgraded, he was giving youngsters a go and giving players some tactical discipline.
Then Mourinho came along and turned everything upside down.
Similarly, Solskjaer is building something here. It will help the next manger, if we learn from our lessons and don't hire someone to turn everything upside down.
Then Mourinho came along and turned everything upside down.
Similarly, Solskjaer is building something here. It will help the next manger, if we learn from our lessons and don't hire someone to turn everything upside down.
Well we know that bud seemingly the folks that run the don't seem to understand. We are in a crisis that no one wants to acknowledge or do anything about. Here we have a thread of people acting like every young player in our squad has potential to be a big part of a title winning side in a league where the leaders win with 95 points +. It's madness.
Quite a few people suggesting Ole as DoF and someone else as manager. It’s an interesting thought, he’s certainly got an eye for players (so far) and suits the club.
Agree with OP. I actually think Ole has been our best manager since Sir Alex and done a lot of good work but if he overstays his welcome he could turn it sour or undo the positive changes he has brought to the scene. He has shaken things up in terms of personnel and he’s made players like each other again which is a massive plus and there isn’t that same toxic air surrounding United but he lacks the tactical nous to take this side to the next level and become title contenders.. that is why this summer would be a perfect time to depart with his head high.
LVG vibe...
Okay I kid, it's not bad but not great nor very good either.
I'm not sensing this "special" feeling growing thing - just in what aspects? where? which one?
The likes of Rash, McT, Will, Green + James, Wall, are definitely an exciting group. Add Romero to the list and that's it => slightly more interesting players in the squad post-saf.
Okay I kid, it's not bad but not great nor very good either.
I'm not sensing this "special" feeling growing thing - just in what aspects? where? which one?
The likes of Rash, McT, Will, Green + James, Wall, are definitely an exciting group. Add Romero to the list and that's it => slightly more interesting players in the squad post-saf.
You are trolling right? Leicester probably has the best midfield in the league bar City.
We are talking about the roof or
An ageing Rooney, RVP after his expiring date, Di Maria, Falcao, Zlatan, Cleverley, Welbeck, Kagawa, Zaha, Keane, Lukaku, Blind, Herrera, Nani, Bastian, Carrick, Januzaj, Hernandez, Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez, Fellaini, Valencia, Young, Herrera, Smalling.
Post SAF have been a mess. We have had passengers from past times, replaced with new passengers. Old class players replaced with even older class players. Squad players replaced with squad players. All at the same time over a span of 5 years. We've had different plans but we have not stuck with one. First plan was to continue with traditions in a romantic way appointing Moyes, then half assed rebuild with Van Gaal combined with 'win as quick as possible aka Ed showing off his wallet proving he wasn't useless', third was desperate appointment of Mourinho 'please magically fix this mess I can't take it just make us win'.
It's been a 5 year rollercoaster and one that really sucks when you get off at the end of the ride, every season. In retrospect a couple of things are clear to me if the club is to move forward.
1. No point in obsessing over the past. No dreaming and romanticising about the times we won, and not get clouded by the negativity and disappointments from last 5 years. It will lead to rushed decisions.
Ole is kind of an ironic appointment in this context as he himself stands behind this vision for the club. Ironic because appointing him was a rushed decision, not part of a longterm plan. It does mean that his own job is at risk, and he is fine with it. By this I mean that the way the club is now looking for players that fit our club longterm, it would make sense for the club to operate in the same manner concerning our future manager. If so I agree, and I'm sure Ole would concur. For this reason, at least to me I still look at Ole as our interim manager. He really isn't, but he is a decent manager that can do a particular job with a purpose, without the ego and all the strings attached you'll find in journeymen managers that do not support the club beyond their own time here. I'm sure he'll realise his limitations if and when that time comes, hopefully it wont be until we're sure we have found another manager that can carry out our plan better than him.
2. You have to go away to come back. We've finally hit rock bottom (in terms of our past, being the best club in the world) Just look at all the players that have passed through this club the last 5 years or so. A lot of big names, a lot of mediocre names and a few horrible ones. While we have sustained some sort of success post SAF in terms of trophies, we've simultaneously built on a foundation that wasn't there while ignoring the future which has prolonged our rebuild.
By not getting more transfers done the previous windows, only acquiring Fred and Dalot before the three signings in the summer after getting rid of half our squad we have stripped it down to the bare essentials. No more excuses.
The only players left is:
Rojo, Bailly, Shaw, Matic, Mata, Shaw, Lindelof, Pogba. The last two is probably good enough to stay but one of them wants to leave. In short, Imagine if we sold these 8 players that have no future at the club this January. Nobody would lose any sleep, but it means we would have about 0 outfield players left bought post SAF! That is incredible 5 years of ins and outs and almost nobody at the club.
Disregarding Fred and Dalot and Ole's signings. We also have Jones and Lingard who should have been sold by now.
We're stripped to the bone, or we're about to be. So what do we do? Once again, we have no real foundation to build upon from before despite spending a lot of money, even with all our talent. So my thinking is if we rush to fix it, we will fail as we did before. If we go for Poch mid season to magically fix us quick like with Mourinho we'll fail, if we give Ole a 6 year contract and stop looking for longterm plans because we win the league cup or something, we'll fail.
The hope being that we trust in the logical solution which is to actually take our time to build a foundation, then build on that. This thread is about something special building at Old Trafford, but we're still not quite there yet. We have to build on the players mentioned that we do have, with a young core, but it is also essential that we do not forget to rip more than a few bricks out of the old wall before we start cementing.
I want to stay positive, even if it is hard to trust Ed, hard to trust a manager without much of a CV. However, because I'm positive I see improvement on the pitch but if I wasn't I don't think I'd be able to fully distinguish actual development from fake "new dawns". I think it is fair to say I'm cautiously optimistic about the club at this moment in time, despite them not earning that trust. I don't think that make me or anyone with these views delusional, romantic idiots etc. for being "Ole in". If this job is being done properly this time, with correct signings coming in, no more stupid contracts to Lingard and Jones, we might actually have something special in a few years. Even with Ole, even with Ed. If they don't do these things correctly it wont happen even with these few good young players we can use to build with.
Post SAF have been a mess. We have had passengers from past times, replaced with new passengers. Old class players replaced with even older class players. Squad players replaced with squad players. All at the same time over a span of 5 years. We've had different plans but we have not stuck with one. First plan was to continue with traditions in a romantic way appointing Moyes, then half assed rebuild with Van Gaal combined with 'win as quick as possible aka Ed showing off his wallet proving he wasn't useless', third was desperate appointment of Mourinho 'please magically fix this mess I can't take it just make us win'.
It's been a 5 year rollercoaster and one that really sucks when you get off at the end of the ride, every season. In retrospect a couple of things are clear to me if the club is to move forward.
1. No point in obsessing over the past. No dreaming and romanticising about the times we won, and not get clouded by the negativity and disappointments from last 5 years. It will lead to rushed decisions.
Ole is kind of an ironic appointment in this context as he himself stands behind this vision for the club. Ironic because appointing him was a rushed decision, not part of a longterm plan. It does mean that his own job is at risk, and he is fine with it. By this I mean that the way the club is now looking for players that fit our club longterm, it would make sense for the club to operate in the same manner concerning our future manager. If so I agree, and I'm sure Ole would concur. For this reason, at least to me I still look at Ole as our interim manager. He really isn't, but he is a decent manager that can do a particular job with a purpose, without the ego and all the strings attached you'll find in journeymen managers that do not support the club beyond their own time here. I'm sure he'll realise his limitations if and when that time comes, hopefully it wont be until we're sure we have found another manager that can carry out our plan better than him.
2. You have to go away to come back. We've finally hit rock bottom (in terms of our past, being the best club in the world) Just look at all the players that have passed through this club the last 5 years or so. A lot of big names, a lot of mediocre names and a few horrible ones. While we have sustained some sort of success post SAF in terms of trophies, we've simultaneously built on a foundation that wasn't there while ignoring the future which has prolonged our rebuild.
By not getting more transfers done the previous windows, only acquiring Fred and Dalot before the three signings in the summer after getting rid of half our squad we have stripped it down to the bare essentials. No more excuses.
The only players left is:
Rojo, Bailly, Shaw, Matic, Mata, Shaw, Lindelof, Pogba. The last two is probably good enough to stay but one of them wants to leave. In short, Imagine if we sold these 8 players that have no future at the club this January. Nobody would lose any sleep, but it means we would have about 0 outfield players left bought post SAF! That is incredible 5 years of ins and outs and almost nobody at the club.
Disregarding Fred and Dalot and Ole's signings. We also have Jones and Lingard who should have been sold by now.
We're stripped to the bone, or we're about to be. So what do we do? Once again, we have no real foundation to build upon from before despite spending a lot of money, even with all our talent. So my thinking is if we rush to fix it, we will fail as we did before. If we go for Poch mid season to magically fix us quick like with Mourinho we'll fail, if we give Ole a 6 year contract and stop looking for longterm plans because we win the league cup or something, we'll fail.
The hope being that we trust in the logical solution which is to actually take our time to build a foundation, then build on that. This thread is about something special building at Old Trafford, but we're still not quite there yet. We have to build on the players mentioned that we do have, with a young core, but it is also essential that we do not forget to rip more than a few bricks out of the old wall before we start cementing.
I want to stay positive, even if it is hard to trust Ed, hard to trust a manager without much of a CV. However, because I'm positive I see improvement on the pitch but if I wasn't I don't think I'd be able to fully distinguish actual development from fake "new dawns". I think it is fair to say I'm cautiously optimistic about the club at this moment in time, despite them not earning that trust. I don't think that make me or anyone with these views delusional, romantic idiots etc. for being "Ole in". If this job is being done properly this time, with correct signings coming in, no more stupid contracts to Lingard and Jones, we might actually have something special in a few years. Even with Ole, even with Ed. If they don't do these things correctly it wont happen even with these few good young players we can use to build with.
You have made some good points but do you really think we made correct signings last summer it seems to me we again overpaid for decent talents so our recruitment still is a problem and unless that improves our road back to top would remain a distant thought for foreseeable future.
It is still up for debate. Think it is too early to conclude it will be a problem. Reports have been encouraging at least in that the process for recruitment has changed, hopefully it will work. I have my doubts, and yeah it most definitely needs to improve to not set us back further. In the position we're in right now it is absolutely vital. However I think the signings were pretty "safe". We did pay over the odds for Maguire because he was seen as safe choice in a position with few guaranteed certainties, but the 20m for Dan James and 50m for Bissaka is fair enough in this market. The important thing is to get the right players for our team, if we focus on this it should increase our chances as before it seemed like we just went and bought whoever player who's agent Ed managed to bribe.
They are starting a Lego Club.
This is by far the most positive I've felt since SAF retired. I'm confident we are actually building something for the long term and are headed in the right direction.
I don't think we're quite there yet to call this current Ole rebuild process something "special". Are we getting better, yes? But to call it special is a big stretch. Other than Rashford, Pogba and maybe Maguire none of our players screams "will be lifting a Champions League in the near future" to me.
Time will tell.
Time will tell.
Of course. Ole should have coached them so well that they should be playing through torn ligaments and injuries that require surgeries.
I usually don't post on here much nowadays because this place is full of miserable twats but sometimes I struggle to believe what I'm reading.
We have the likes of Perreira and Lingard as #10, haven't had a full strength midfield all season, our primary #9 has missed 2 months and somehow still people keep spinning yarns about how we should be doing better.
If people want the point fingers at the lack of depth, by all means go ahead, it's justified, but you need to give your head a wobble if you think a midfield of Perreira, Fred, Matic etc should be giving consistently brilliant performances.
I think that some principles like getting rid of certain players and bring in a good mixture of young talents and some more experienced players are really positive.
The problem is that Ole is strategically just not good enough and maybe never will be.
Bring in someone like Poch and get more determined when it comes to transfers and we might be on the right way.
The problem is that Ole is strategically just not good enough and maybe never will be.
Bring in someone like Poch and get more determined when it comes to transfers and we might be on the right way.
I think we, like many other clubs, have some good youngsters coming through... they all attend academies etc, so I expect them to be decent. The question is how good will they be. Greenwood looks a player, I really like him. Rashford is now a leading light... it's for him to see how far he wishes to go. McT... good, but not amazing. And none of the rest seem super special.. think a young Ronaldo, Rooney.. RVP... these were prodigious young talents. I am not sure we have that. We have some v decent young players... but we have had this in the past.
Note Jesse Lindgard.
Note Jesse Lindgard.
good effort - poor content. Check blood pressure.
Genuinely astonished by the amount of positivity in this thread.
Not because I disagree but because it's the caf, these threads are normally derailed within the space of one page.
Not because I disagree but because it's the caf, these threads are normally derailed within the space of one page.