Solskjaer's legacy and his future

The_Midfielder said:
Well there is no one way to win a match.. How many comebacks did we hvae under Ole? DId we ever score 9 goals? How many times did we hammer teams?
Ole's tenure is definitely better than LVG, Mourinho's sans the trophy.. A last minute Lingard banger for LVG, who bought dross like Memphis,Blind, Schnederlin, Sweinstiger., Martial . Mourinho bought equally dross.. Zlatan, Lukaku,Matic
We have been making mistakes since SAF retired and Ole's hiring was not the only mistake.
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Of course there is no one way to win a match but there is not a single successful team in history that does not play better than the opposition the majority of the time. You don't win trophies of any note by being outplayed in most games and winning because you have talented individuals you rely on to change games in a few moments.

Liverpool and City both win scrappy games they don't deserve to win... the difference is that they do that 3-4 times a season not 50% of the time.

Consistency is what won Fergie so many titles. We consistently beat most teams in the league by being better than then and playing better than them. Under Ole we won a lot of games because we had better players than them. As soon as a few of those players were no longer doing the business the whole thing fell apart.
 
killerboi2 said:
Just when I thought the thread couldn't get anymore ridiculous with people still pretending a man who left months ago is still our manager...

We are actually pretty much back to Mourinho's "good work". 0-1, 1-1 scorelines, a dreadful style of football and De Gea being one of our highest rated players if not man of the match in every damn game.
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Don't even bother. Most of these guys are so embarrassed about their predictions that a 'modern manager' would have this team playing amazing football that they will blame ole well into next season and the season beyond.

I do get a good laugh around the idea that ole is undoing lvgs good work by signing Bruno Fernandez, varane and Sancho though.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
It would be much simpler to suggest he was unlucky the last four months.
Managers aren't generally lucky to not be found out at their jobs for multiple seasons.
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He was found out. Time and time again. He spent £300m and was routinely outplayed on the pitch. That is being found out. Being outworked, outfought and out played when your team is worth 5x the oppositions is being found out.

When you a relying on your players to do something individual and special to win games time and time again, you are being found out as a manager. When you can't tell which team just spent £100m in the last transfer window and which one is facing relegation multiple times a season, you have been found out.

Managers literally have a single overriding job. Add value to the team. Add value to make the team perform as something greater than the sum of its parts. Do you seriously think that Ole did that at any point. His first few months were easily the best when the team had some semblance of Mourinhos coaching coupled with Oles feel good factor.

Mourinho is still a good manager at his core despite what some people say. Hes just not a modern manager who is good at looking after a bunch of overpaid, entitled babies. He doesn't suffer idiots or laziness and part of your job as a manager now is to stroke players egos.

Peak Chelsea under Mourinho were just relentless and his players would run through walls for him. Players now want to know whats in it for them. Why they should do it and if their mates think its a good idea. The lure of trophies and success isn't the primary driving factor for a lot of players it seems.
 
mctrials23 said:
When you a relying on your players to do something individual and special to win games time and time again, you are being found out as a manager.
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Why aren't the players able to do something individual now? Is Ralf not allowing them to?
 
MUW4Eva said:
Why be so derogatory, there really is no need to be like that.

As demonstrated by the over 20 thousand people that recently turned up for the women's game at Old Trafford, there are plenty of people that care passionately about the women's team.

So Ole helping to bring his daughter to the club, will mean his legacy is safe and secure in the positive column.
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Agree with you there, I had been very sad that MUFC had neglected its role in the women's game and I'm glad to see it being addressed.
It's always been a major part of the community to me and even as a child 40 years ago was open and welcoming to all races, faiths, colours, certainly compared to competitors. Sorry, a bit off topic there.
 
MUW4Eva said:
Why be so derogatory, there really is no need to be like that.

As demonstrated by the over 20 thousand people that recently turned up for the women's game at Old Trafford, there are plenty of people that care passionately about the women's team.

So Ole helping to bring his daughter to the club, will mean his legacy is safe and secure in the positive column.
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:wenger:
 
Matriac said:
Why aren't the players able to do something individual now? Is Ralf not allowing them to?
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They are not in good form at the moment and don't seem to care about playing for him. Why did they fall off a cliff this season before Rangnick? United were easily in their best form during the first few months after Ole took over. They were happy, working hard and hadn't fallen into the Ole malaise.

Not quite sure what your argument here is. Form comes and goes. Its fragile and relies on a lot of things. Thats why the best teams have a strong foundation to fall back on when their star players aren't quite on form. Salah isn't in glittering form right now but Liverpool haven't suffered that much.
 
Sky1981 said:
If his first 20 games that are so lauded by some around here are a testament of his genius. Why cant he replicate it or at least see whats wrong for the past 2 years with additional 400m players of his chosing
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Nobody said he was genius but you can go on and try to undermine what he did as interim manager.
Why? Why can’t Mourinho replicate what he did in Chelsea? Why can’t Juventus win League be 50 miles ahead of everyone? Why aren’t Dundee infront of Rangers and Celtic? Why did Bayern lose against Villareal? Why can’t Genk win Champions League. I can answer all of questions so you don’t have. Players.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
It would be much simpler to suggest he was unlucky the last four months.
Managers aren't generally lucky to not be found out at their jobs for multiple seasons.
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He still got about the same points as Jose despite spending more and having Liverpool/City/Chelsea having some of the worst injury luck in years when he got second and third.

He basically lucked out in consecutive years for doing the same job as what Jose did minus the toxicity because he didn't bother to control the dressing room at all.
 
Prior to this season starting, a lot of football fans and pundits, including United fans, were happy with the direction of the club under Ole. With good reason too, I think, he'd been chipping away at a lot of the deadwood in the squad, was getting the best out of some players like Shaw and had made some positive signings, like Sancho.

Going into this season was the most optimistic time for a United fan since Ferguson I think. All the objectives were being ticked off, it's just that in the end, Solskjaer wasn't a good enough manager to deal with various things, in particular the egos at the club.

I don't think Solskjaer was a disaster for United. He had a very bad period towards the end but he was the first United manager since Ferguson who left the club in a stronger position than when he took it over. Unofortunately, a lot of the good he did has been damaged by the detrimental presence of Ronaldo, the woeful lack of form of Shaw and Maguire, the abandonement of effort from Rashford, the obvious issues with Greenwood and so on. What Ole created has unravelled but he did, for a period, give United fans genuine optimism and he should be remembered for that.
 
Managerial legacy in tatters. And rightly so. Signings where absymal. All bark no bite from Ole.

Player legacy will be fine overall. It will be fully restored if we ever get back to winning leagues.
 
90 + 5min said:
Nobody said he was genius but you can go on and try to undermine what he did as interim manager.
Why? Why can’t Mourinho replicate what he did in Chelsea? Why can’t Juventus win League be 50 miles ahead of everyone? Why aren’t Dundee infront of Rangers and Celtic? Why did Bayern lose against Villareal? Why can’t Genk win Champions League. I can answer all of questions so you don’t have. Players.
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So Ole is still to blame then as he bought a hell of a lot of shite players.
 
Maguire: 87M. Massive failure
Sancho: 85M. Average
Bruno: 63M. Success
Wan Bissaka: 55M. Massive failure
Varane: 40M. Average
Van de Beek: 39M. Massive failure
Diallo: 21M. Failure
Daniel James: 18M. Average
Cristiano: 15M. Average
Alex Telles: 15M. Average
Pellistri: 8.5M. Failure

That's his legacy.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Maguire: 87M. Massive failure
Sancho: 85M. Average
Bruno: 63M. Success
Wan Bissaka: 55M. Massive failure
Varane: 40M. Average
Van de Beek: 39M. Massive failure
Diallo: 21M. Failure
Daniel James: 18M. Average
Cristiano: 15M. Average
Alex Telles: 15M. Average
Pellistri: 8.5M. Failure

That's his legacy.
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Add to that - making Maguire captain: catastrophic failure.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Maguire: 87M. Massive failure
Sancho: 85M. Average
Bruno: 63M. Success
Wan Bissaka: 55M. Massive failure
Varane: 40M. Average
Van de Beek: 39M. Massive failure
Diallo: 21M. Failure
Daniel James: 18M. Average
Cristiano: 15M. Average
Alex Telles: 15M. Average
Pellistri: 8.5M. Failure

That's his legacy.
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I feel like this is very, very biased. Maguire - failure, sure, buts it's not as easy as saying good or bad. Many circumstances
 
laughtersassassin said:
So Ole is still to blame then as he bought a hell of a lot of shite players.
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I think there is no point of discussing how it works when we buy players. Lot of you think it is Solskjaer that decided and don’t actually know how it works. Same as some people thought Solskjaer was doctor and forced players to play injuried ignoring the fact that we have doctors.
Solskjaer is manager. He decides who plays and how we train and have some input what kind of players he want. It is up to others to deliever. If he wants as expample Messi but gets Dybala he will not say no. If he says we need CB or RB he will get those but maybe not the one he wants. Is he clear from any criticism. No. But lot of you think he was one man club and everything went trough him. That is far, far, far from the truth.
 
Love you Ole!

You tried your best and if you did stay longer than you should then that's ultimately the Glazers mismanagement of United.
 
Eli Zee said:
I feel like this is very, very biased. Maguire - failure, sure, buts it's not as easy as saying good or bad. Many circumstances
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I tried to make it as neutral as possible, care to share your ratings for comparison reasons?

Maybe Maguire could jump from massive failure to failure, but there's no way we can rate him as average when he's the most expensive defender of all time and he's become a meme.
 
elmo said:
He basically lucked out in consecutive years
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The common opinion in this forum is that league competition is the mark of quality and consistency, and that you can't luck out in it. So this argument can only go so far.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
The common opinion in this forum is that league competition is the mark of quality and consistency, and that you can't luck out in it. So this argument can only go so far.
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He improved morale and got more players playing to potential. But all the fundamental issues were not resolved, in fact allowed to fester, and his signings suited one specific style which was not sustainable for a top team. Add in the lack of a leading coach and it was a wasted couple of years with ££££s wasted on signings and renewals. Squad mess is on him. though bigger picture buck always sits with our offshore owners who literally dont give a f*ck.
 
Polar said:
Relying on Mou’s tactical work two years after:D That’s funny.
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Don't you agree that his first matches as an interim where his best time and that it slowly got worse after that?
 
elmo said:
He still got about the same points as Jose despite spending more and having Liverpool/City/Chelsea having some of the worst injury luck in years when he got second and third.

He basically lucked out in consecutive years for doing the same job as what Jose did minus the toxicity because he didn't bother to control the dressing room at all.
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No he didn't. Both spent equal amount, and in terms of net spend, Ole spent 20m less than the Portuguese cnut.
 
Also, I think I might have watched different games, but apart from the 3-2 vs BHA, the 1-0 vs Wolves this season, and the 1-0 vs Spurs in Ole's interim period, were there a lot of games where we were very lucky to win?

Sure there were a few 60-40 games in our favour like in Jan last year, but I'm quite certain we deserved to win those games, if there was to be a winner.
 
Massive failure isn’t it? If reports are true and ETH thinks this is a 3-4 year rebuild, then that means Ole failed to leave the club in a better state than he found it. Really wanted him to work out but it just looks so naive in hindsight.
 
anant said:
No he didn't. Both spent equal amount, and in terms of net spend, Ole spent 20m less than the Portuguese cnut.
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But was much less successful when we look at the history books.

And I'm Someone who hated Jose towards the last year and a half.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Maguire: 87M. Massive failure
Sancho: 85M. Average
Bruno: 63M. Success
Wan Bissaka: 55M. Massive failure
Varane: 40M. Average
Van de Beek: 39M. Massive failure
Diallo: 21M. Failure
Daniel James: 18M. Average
Cristiano: 15M. Average
Alex Telles: 15M. Average
Pellistri: 8.5M. Failure

That's his legacy.
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Ole had massive deficiencies and made some big errors. I’ll point that out before I even start this. However, we are supposed to have a big scouting network and negotiators that deal with transfers. I highly doubt Ole was personally scouting and actively playing a part in deciding how much to pay. It doesn’t let him completely off the hook as I’m sure he had input, but I wouldn’t say it’s his solely his legacy, rather Woodwards.
 
mctrials23 said:
I can't tell if you are joking here...

Ole was a shite manager for almost the entire time he was here. The last 4 months is just when his luck ran out and his complete lack of managerial ability was exposed.

If you have even watched 20 minutes of Liverpool, City, Chelsea or any other team in our ballpark of size you might notice some subtle differences in the way we play compared to them. You might notice that they operate as a cohesive unit that attacks and defends together, has patterns of play and obvious shapes to their transitions. United had basically none of that.

How many times over the past 3 years do you truly think that we outplayed our opponents. 30% maybe? When you have a squad worth half a billion pounds you should be beating almost every team in the league simply because you are spending 4x what they are. You should have good enough players that given a similar number of chances to the opposition you score more of them. Thats quite literally how we won most of our games. Outplayed by relegation fodder but a couple of our players dig out a result and unsurprisingly the opposition who have a crap striker and a team put together for £50m aren't quite as clinical as us.

Nothing about Oles tenure suggested that he was going to compete with Liverpool, City or Chelsea. We were always a country mile off being as good as them.

Good teams with good managers play good football. They have an obvious and identifiable purpose on the pitch. We didn't have that at any point outside of Oles "counter-attack them" strategy which unsurprisingly gets a bit harder when the opposition sit with 10 men behind the ball. Opposition managers even got to the point where they were saying either "United are easy to play against because you know exactly what they will do" or "Who knows which United will show up today". Neither of which are ringing endorsements of a manager after nearly 3 years and hundreds of millions spent.

As soon as a couple of our "saviour" players started misfiring under Ole we fell off a cliff because there was literally no fundamentals to fall back on. I actually find it astounding that people can watch any amount of football and think that Ole was anything but completely out of his depth at United. He quite literally added no value to those players outside of being on good terms with them for most of the time he was her. Crap manager. Utterly crap.
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So the fact that Ole finished above Chelsea twice, above Liverpool once is pure luck? You are delusional.

Luck doesn't run for 2 seasons. Luck is in one-off games and cups.

Also, I know that we all want to play like City and Liverpool but that only happens when the entire club pulls in the same direction. Can you say that for us?

Did we play like or better than City and Liverpool under any manager post SAF?
 
SAFMUTD said:
I tried to make it as neutral as possible, care to share your ratings for comparison reasons?

Maybe Maguire could jump from massive failure to failure, but there's no way we can rate him as average when he's the most expensive defender of all time and he's become a meme.
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I meant it's not as easy as saying good or bad for all of the players. When it comes to maguire, he is very clearly not up to par, especially for that price tag.
 
mctrials23 said:
They are not in good form at the moment and don't seem to care about playing for him. Why did they fall off a cliff this season before Rangnick? United were easily in their best form during the first few months after Ole took over. They were happy, working hard and hadn't fallen into the Ole malaise.

Not quite sure what your argument here is. Form comes and goes. Its fragile and relies on a lot of things. Thats why the best teams have a strong foundation to fall back on when their star players aren't quite on form. Salah isn't in glittering form right now but Liverpool haven't suffered that much.
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So, their form is something magical then? Not part of the manager's responsibilities?
 
I’m sure he meant well. Trouble is his inexperience and profligacy in the transfer market, has really screwed the club up for the foreseeable future now.
 
Dan_F said:
Ole had massive deficiencies and made some big errors. I’ll point that out before I even start this. However, we are supposed to have a big scouting network and negotiators that deal with transfers. I highly doubt Ole was personally scouting and actively playing a part in deciding how much to pay. It doesn’t let him completely off the hook as I’m sure he had input, but I wouldn’t say it’s his solely his legacy, rather Woodwards.
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Totally agree, I blame him for the big buck signings. Such as Maguire and Wan Bissaka, but players like Pellistri and Amad I guess he knew about as much as we did t that time.
 
Dan_F said:
Ole had massive deficiencies and made some big errors. I’ll point that out before I even start this. However, we are supposed to have a big scouting network and negotiators that deal with transfers. I highly doubt Ole was personally scouting and actively playing a part in deciding how much to pay. It doesn’t let him completely off the hook as I’m sure he had input, but I wouldn’t say it’s his solely his legacy, rather Woodwards.
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Remember everyone taking the piss out of Moyes and his horror at the state of our scouting network when he took over? Credit is due to Moyes for at least recognising the problem. Beggars belief that this still hasn’t been fixed.

Obviously Ole’s responsible for signing off on the Diallo and Pellistri deals. That’s a hell of a lot of cash that could have been invested a lot smarter. Scouts just identify options. Managers decide when to pull the trigger.
 
Summing up Ole’s time is like have an average player, who has the odd good game, then gets injured. The team play crap, then the average player who hasn’t played, becomes a great player.

For those who are confused by that, I will give you an example. VDB!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Remember everyone taking the piss out of Moyes and his horror at the state of our scouting network when he took over? Credit is due to Moyes for at least recognising the problem. Beggars belief that this still hasn’t been fixed.

Obviously Ole’s responsible for signing off on the Diallo and Pellistri deals. That’s a hell of a lot of cash that could have been invested a lot smarter. Scouts just identify options. Managers decide when to pull the trigger.
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Based on scouting reports. From our dreadful scouting network. And surely sporting directors should be having a big say along with the manager. If we had one.
 
laughtersassassin said:
But was much less successful when we look at the history books.

And I'm Someone who hated Jose towards the last year and a half.
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In terms of trophies, sure. But I don't give a feck about cup competitions, as they require quite a bit of luck as well.

I just use the league performances to judge managers, and hence rate Ole higher
 
gajender said:
We had plenty of luck during that huge winning run with several undeserved wins and lucky escapes eventually it all evened out and we crashed and burned which usually happens when uder lying stats don't justify the actual results .
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Did we not play some very good football as well?
 
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