Solskjaer's legacy and his future

So you would have released an England squad player because he is prone to niggling injuries?
Niggling? Up until he signed his contract he had 19 injuries ranging from 11 days up to 59 days out, averaging out to 35 days missing an injury. I dont think niggling is the adequate word to use in this case and yes. He should of been released. Even if he didn't have that major injury after he signed his contract which kept him out for 454 days it was guaranteed he would of missed large chunks of the seasons due to other "niggling" injuries. What good is a player who can't be counted on when it matters?
 
Niggling? Up until he signed his contract he had 19 injuries ranging from 11 days up to 59 days out, averaging out to 35 days missing an injury. I dont think niggling is the adequate word to use in this case and yes. He should of been released. Even if he didn't have that major injury after he signed his contract which kept him out for 454 days it was guaranteed he would of missed large chunks of the seasons due to other "niggling" injuries. What good is a player who can't be counted on when it matters?
The fact that you’re referring to a career threatening injury by the amount of days he was out tells me everything I need to know about your argument. Done
 
Give over. NO club would just release him. I hate stating the obvious but think about what you’re saying.
again I agree with you in trying to sell as part of an upgrade of the squad but it wasn’t as urgent as some of the other bits that needed done (and probably still do). But releasing him? The club wouldn’t have done that, it would’ve been illogical. I do agree however that the length of the contract was OTT

We are/would of only kept him for squad depth. I don’t see a problem in letting him go. The only reason he didn’t get sold was because the club refused the back Jose with a CB the previous summer not letting him raise funds through selling a defender like Jones as they believed his replacements weren’t any better (They was right in terms of ability, as this was towards Harry Maguire) But Maguire hardly gets injured and probably works well in a Jose system. Now we are left with both.

I think the contract length supports the fact the board and the manager believed in him. If the manager wasn’t in full support he might of got a shorter deal. But it’s not a dig at Ole, just stating what I believe to be logical.
 
We are/would of only kept him for squad depth. I don’t see a problem in letting him go. The only reason he didn’t get sold was because the club refused the back Jose with a CB the previous summer not letting him raise funds through selling a defender like Jones as they believed his replacements weren’t any better (They was right in terms of ability, as this was towards Harry Maguire) But Maguire hardly gets injured and probably works well in a Jose system. Now we are left with both.

I think the contract length supports the fact the board and the manager believed in him. If the manager wasn’t in full support he might of got a shorter deal. But it’s not a dig at Ole, just stating what I believe to be logical.
It would be like Liverpool releasing Joe Gomez. It won’t happen. If someone had offered a deal or we had offered him up for sale I’m sure he would have been moved on. But the club offered him a new deal; im not sure how much control over that Ole had. We still could have sold him before he got his injury.

anyway i feel like I’m going around in circles with various posters on this so I’m out
 
The fact that you’re referring to a career threatening injury by the amount of days he was out tells me everything I need to know about your argument. Done
Eh?? What exactly has one thing got to do with the other? His past injury record should of been the clearest marker of them all. Instead we give him a 5 year contract. One of the reasons the club is in the state it's in is because we keep giving out contracts to every man and his dog making it impossible to sell them. It's time to move on from this experiment because it obviously isn't working.
 
Eh?? What exactly has one thing got to do with the other? His past injury record should of been the clearest marker of them all. Instead we give him a 5 year contract. One of the reasons the club is in the state it's in is because we keep giving out contracts to every man and his dog making it impossible to sell them. It's time to move on from this experiment because it obviously isn't working.
Exactly you didn’t need to raise that point as it was nothing to do with it!
 
Exactly you didn’t need to raise that point as it was nothing to do with it!
Fair enough but I only raised that point because even without his career threatening injury he still would of been out for large chunks of his time here with other injuries. He has too much previous not to come to that conclusion which is the reason I didn't want him to sign another contract. Especially one so long. A rolling year to year contract should of been what was offered if we were short on defenders. Even when fit he just normally sits on the bench anyway so his longterm contract to me seems pretty pointless.
 
Fair enough but I only raised that point because even without his career threatening injury he still would of been out for large chunks of his time here with other injuries. He has too much previous not to come to that conclusion which is the reason I didn't want him to sign another contract. Especially one so long. A rolling year to year contract should of been what was offered if we were short on defenders. Even when fit he just normally sits on the bench anyway so his longterm contract to me seems pretty pointless.
You won’t get any argument from me over the length of the contract or that we could have tried to sell/upgrade at that point. What i disagree with is people saying they’d just release him. Those same people would have been moaning it hes then gone on to boss it elsewhere
 
Give it to DDG then. Not on Maguire, ever.
DDG was never captain material. Whatever the criticism of Ole, Maguire as captain wasn’t a bad choice then and he actually played very well under him for the most part. Now it looks like his form has nosedived but he Is a far better leader than De Gea could ever dream of.
 
He was always a mediocre manager at best, who had a fantastic start to his tenure as an interim.

The club is at fault here for giving him the full time job. Whether they did it because he was a United legend and a yes man, or whether they genuinely thought he was a good candidate for the job, no one knows. I hope it’s the former, since the latter would mean that this club really has no planning or system in place, and just goes with the flow.

The signings under him are looking worse with every passing day. James is already gone, Maguire and AWB are some of the most expensive flops in history. Again, we are not sure if this was coming from him or the board. But this was the problem, since most of the top managers have a clear playing style and would expect to have control over who they sign. While Ole seemed to just go with the flow.

We need to completely revamp the club and it’s identity, and stay away from the legends and nostalgia for a good while. The whole Ole situation was the perfect example in how this nostalgia could lead to a bad situation. I’m all in for Ralf and whoever the next manager is to lead the club in a new direction.
 
No manager is ever blameless. Solskjaer did wrong in some things to. Nobody is saying that. But to put blame on him all the time while never touching other aspects is what gets on my nerves.
When it comes to players people think that Solskjaer was deciding everything without actually look how our recruitment of players goes.

Other people were involved with transfers, but Solskjaer did say he had the final say.

Considering the fact he left the coaching to others, you'd expect him to at least be massively involved in transfers. Otherwise, what's his actual input and involvement in the first team?

Anyhow, it's not just about Solskjaer. We keep making the same complaints about totally different sets of players for nearly nine years now. So either we've been absolutely terrible at dozens of transfers, or the main issue is the several bad appointments made since Fergie. And I say: It's the managers before the players.
 
One thing comes to my mind. During his tenure, we United fans spent second halves of seasons watching will Liverpool win 20th title or will City win CL.
And again this season.....what a shit feeling
 
So if I go through your posting history I wouldn't find anything praising Ole on the recruitment we did as a club or how thanks to Ole we've put together the best squad since SAF? Even Ole himself said no one would come into the club without his say so. Was he lying? Why would he do that?

I'm not talking about you personally but it is quite funny the amount of back tracking going on with the signings we've made. When, at least on paper the team looked liked it could go places Ole was getting all the accolades but once it became obvious we were going nowhere the narrative changed to, he was a Woodward signing, Ole didn't want him or Ole had nothing to do with transfers. So many excuses for such an average manager.
You can go and check. I have been critical to some transfers club made under Solskjaer. I am not ashamed to say I rather would have kept James in team instead of players like Pogba and Lingard. I’m gonna repeat that Solskjaer is not blameless but in my opinion biggest problem is players. Their atitude, character, leadership. Not managers. Lot of players are good on paper but when it comes to perform it is just average. At best. They need to look themselfs in mirror. Otherwise it will be like song on repeat with new manager.

Other people were involved with transfers, but Solskjaer did say he had the final say.

Considering the fact he left the coaching to others, you'd expect him to at least be massively involved in transfers. Otherwise, what's his actual input and involvement in the first team?

Anyhow, it's not just about Solskjaer. We keep making the same complaints about totally different sets of players for nearly nine years now. So either we've been absolutely terrible at dozens of transfers, or the main issue is the several bad appointments made since Fergie. And I say: It's the managers before the players.
How they worked from day to day is up to them. Some managers let other take controll of some things. Some others want to controll everything.
Big problem is that post Fergie we have been buying ”popular” players to please fans. Solskjaer was no stranger to that. We didn’t need some of those big transfers. Lot of bad, bad transfers have now happened post Fergie. Players we didn’t need. Players that get lot of money and they don’t need to perform. They know that. They will still play because of power. When you put those players in the corner with some kind of pressure they fall apart. This is also applied to homegrown players. And then blaming game starts. Who goes out first? Always managers because it is easier to change one instead of 15. I hope club can stick with Rangnick if he wants and not get some ”popular”manager. Regardless what happens, new manager time.
 
He has done more damage to this club than Lvg, Jose and Moyes.

All that culture reboot, building a team, dna and what not turned out to be PR bull crap and excuses provided by his defenders.
The much coveted top 4 finishes meant f all as there was no follow through.

To top it off, the club ended up wasting huge sums of money with ridiculous wages and contracts extended to dead wood under his watch.
 
He has done more damage to this club than Lvg, Jose and Moyes.

All that culture reboot, building a team, dna and what not turned out to be PR bull crap and excuses provided by his defenders.
The much coveted top 4 finishes meant f all as there was no follow through.

To top it off, the club ended up wasting huge sums of money with ridiculous wages and contracts extended to dead wood under his watch.

Finishing 3rd and 2nd was the reason he was kept and given a new contract. That is the main goal of our board - CL qualification.
In 3 years there were some improvements here and there but not what should to be expected for a club like Man Utd. The only reasonable moments when he could of been sacked was after his first 5 months when he finished the season badly and the next season before signing Bruno in January.

The fact he isn't a good manager could be seen on the pitch where we had no idea, no vision not comprehensive way of playing, but everyone was fooled into thinking we are work in progress and things will click at some point.
Look at Xavi what he has done at Barca in 4 months, he didn't need 3 years to "build a team".
 
Finishing 3rd and 2nd was the reason he was kept and given a new contract. That is the main goal of our board - CL qualification.
In 3 years there were some improvements here and there but not what should to be expected for a club like Man Utd. The only reasonable moments when he could of been sacked was after his first 5 months when he finished the season badly and the next season before signing Bruno in January.

The fact he isn't a good manager could be seen on the pitch where we had no idea, no vision not comprehensive way of playing, but everyone was fooled into thinking we are work in progress and things will click at some point.
Look at Xavi what he has done at Barca in 4 months, he didn't need 3 years to "build a team".
It was those top reds that bought into the whole rebuild that let fans down. But also the fact that the club entrusted its future to someone with absolutely no qualifications or track record to do the job. That was on Woodward. A top manager should not be given final say on transfers, there is too much going on for them in a massive club to be fully aware of all the options and to make a call. That is why you need a strong DoF and a clear football decision making structure. Ole wasted best part of a billion on transfers and wages, left us with an even more unbalanced squad and divided dressing room, with no coherent football philosophy. Joke of a manager for a joke club.
 
Ole was a top player for us and provided us with some great moments, no question. His legacy in this sense will remain intact.

As a manager, he's poor and tactically inept. He should have been replaced at the end of his interim spell regardless. I don't think he dealt with the egos in the dressing room nor do I think he set any kind of standard. It's this that has in opinion left the dressing room in a shambles and left the players thinking they run the show. Ralf is doing his best to assert his authority but in doing so, look how many reports we've seen of players suggesting he's not up to it etc. That culture is on Ole.
 
Ole was a top player for us and provided us with some great moments, no question. His legacy in this sense will remain intact.

As a manager, he's poor and tactically inept. He should have been replaced at the end of his interim spell regardless. I don't think he dealt with the egos in the dressing room nor do I think he set any kind of standard. It's this that has in opinion left the dressing room in a shambles and left the players thinking they run the show. Ralf is doing his best to assert his authority but in doing so, look how many reports we've seen of players suggesting he's not up to it etc. That culture is on Ole.
Good comment. This pretty much sums up everything, with players behaving as though they can do what ever they want.
Ole’s hands off approach was more likely due to his lack of experience, whilst this group of players needed an assertive coach more than anything, but that horse has bolted now and the toxicity within the squad now needs to be dealt with.
 
£85m on Maguire and making him captain immediately is not still damaging the Man Utd?

It is damaging United, can’t disagree with that. Whether you can blame Ole for it without the benefit of hindsight might be another question but that isn’t the point.

The point is:

SAF (the greatest manager of all time, for the record) let the squad fall into disrepair towards the end of his tenure (something he had never really done before).

Moyes took the best club in the world, gutted the coaching staff, dithered in the market and effectively set us back ten years.

LVG came in and spent bucketloads of cash on dross (albeit a number of his signings have proven to be very good under different management) backed by seemingly the worst scouting system known to man.

Jose came in and did his usual, instant success readymade signings and it worked, up to a point. Then Jose did his other usual, spit the dummy out and watch the club burn (This also worked, very well).

Ole picked the club up in arguably the worst state I’ve seen it. He got some results and he bought players that (without the benefit of hindsight) seemed to fit the bill. He worked with the club to revamp the scouting system and allegedly got this department on track. Ultimately we realise that the new scouting system is as bad as the old; while I believe it was donewith the best intentions OGS flooded the club with jobs for the lads and left us in bad shape also (However, on paper at the start of this season our squad was competitive and sound).

I could go on forever about the pros and cons of each manager, but ultimately there is only one constant, that’s the owners (since even clueless Ed has made way now).

My big problem is people thinking that OGS is the root of the clubs problems when he did largely the same as if not better than his predecessors (post SAF) in terms ofleaving a viable squad behind.
 
It is damaging United, can’t disagree with that. Whether you can blame Ole for it without the benefit of hindsight might be another question but that isn’t the point.

The point is:

SAF (the greatest manager of all time, for the record) let the squad fall into disrepair towards the end of his tenure (something he had never really done before).

Moyes took the best club in the world, gutted the coaching staff, dithered in the market and effectively set us back ten years.

LVG came in and spent bucketloads of cash on dross (albeit a number of his signings have proven to be very good under different management) backed by seemingly the worst scouting system known to man.

Jose came in and did his usual, instant success readymade signings and it worked, up to a point. Then Jose did his other usual, spit the dummy out and watch the club burn (This also worked, very well).

Ole picked the club up in arguably the worst state I’ve seen it. He got some results and he bought players that (without the benefit of hindsight) seemed to fit the bill. He worked with the club to revamp the scouting system and allegedly got this department on track. Ultimately we realise that the new scouting system is as bad as the old; while I believe it was donewith the best intentions OGS flooded the club with jobs for the lads and left us in bad shape also (However, on paper at the start of this season our squad was competitive and sound).

I could go on forever about the pros and cons of each manager, but ultimately there is only one constant, that’s the owners (since even clueless Ed has made way now).

My big problem is people thinking that OGS is the root of the clubs problems when he did largely the same as if not better than his predecessors (post SAF) in terms ofleaving a viable squad behind.
He also left is with a squad that basically improved feck all under his stint which will set us back for years.

That's not even counting how many players he have ruined by having no discipline at all which has left us with this shit fest we call a team which lacks fitness, motivation and discipline.
 
Basically Ralf doing worse than ole is evidence that ole coached the players so badly that they are uncoachable, rather than maybe Ralf isn't that good a manager, and that explains why he hasn't had a job in so many years.

I even saw in one thread someone said ole got together personalities that are too hard to manage and is to blame for the dressing room falling apart... He put together a team for him to manage, he wasn't thinking ahead if United hired a manager who had never managed big personalities what would happen.

Everything that happened under ole, good of bad, was on ole. Not on mourinho or Woodward or Ronaldo. Everything that happens under Ralf is on Ralf. He needs to be doing better with the players he has.
 
What has he done? Won something?
Come back next time when we hammer City or Pool 4-0. Ask any Barca fans few months ago if they think its possible to hammer Madrid 4-0 in the Bernabeu this season, they would laugh your ass off. We could see Xavi is bringing Barca back to the right way
 
Come back next time when we hammer City or Pool 4-0. Ask any Barca fans few months ago if they think its possible to hammer Madrid 4-0 in the Bernabeu this season, they would laugh your ass off. We could see Xavi is bringing Barca back to the right way

I doubt anyone thought 2 seasons ago that we'd do the double over City in the league, or anyone who thought that we'd not lose to City in the league 2 seasons in a row, or finish above Pool in the league as well
 
Come back next time when we hammer City or Pool 4-0. Ask any Barca fans few months ago if they think its possible to hammer Madrid 4-0 in the Bernabeu this season, they would laugh your ass off. We could see Xavi is bringing Barca back to the right way

We done the double over City, won 2-0 we finished above Liverpool in the league. I bet if I told you that last season, you would have laughed your ass off too but it happened.

Also, lets not act as if Real are anywhere near the levels of City or Pool. Liverpool and City would smash them too.
 
We done the double over City, won 2-0 we finished above Liverpool in the league. I bet if I told you that last season, you would have laughed your ass off too but it happened.

Also, lets not act as if Real are anywhere near the levels of City or Pool. Liverpool and City would smash them too.
After 3 years Ole still didn't know the style of play he wanted for us. It took Xavi about 3 minutes. The difference is night and day.
 
After 3 years Ole still didn't know the style of play he wanted for us. It took Xavi about 3 minutes. The difference is night and day.

No actually he did, it was counter attacking football. Ole had a good phase too, like what Xavi has had now.

Its quite interesting to see Xavi coming out saying in England players after a bit of form are over rated when he has had a good month and is being over rated by Barca and other fans.
 
From a managerial perspective, Mourinho's legacy at the club looks better with each passing day, whereas Ole's just gets worse.

Why do we have so many of these weird fans who support Jose Mourinho and want to put him on a pedestal at all costs?

I liked Jose but he ultimately deserved to be sacked as he didn't achieve consistent results on the pitch, before preceeding to fall out with literally everyone.
 
From a managerial perspective, Mourinho's legacy at the club looks better with each passing day, whereas Ole's just gets worse.

The only legacy Mourinho left behind was that of being the most despised United manager in the history of the club. He was as equally big a disaster as Moyes.
 
Why do we have so many of these weird fans who support Jose Mourinho and want to put him on a pedestal at all costs?

I liked Jose but he ultimately deserved to be sacked as he didn't achieve consistent results on the pitch, before preceeding to fall out with literally everyone.
I don’t think anyone puts Mourinho on a pedestal or is attempting to rewrite history with regards to his implosion which rightly got him booted out of the club, but with the benefit of hindsight he was right about a lot of things and players who are still at this club. I mean we wanted him sacked because he wanted to get rid of our precious jewels Martial, Pogba and Shaw (me included) but three years on it’s hardly as if these have been players who have shown the quality, fitness or mentality required to take us back to where we think we should be as a club.

It’s hardly as if any of those three have proven him massively wrong and showed themselves to be irreplaceable (for the money they could’ve fetched at the time) over the three years since he left the club, apart from Shaw during that one season last year and Pogba during Ole’s interim run, and I’m saying that as one of the people who have been defending Pogba whenever possible.
 
No actually he did, it was counter attacking football. Ole had a good phase too, like what Xavi has had now.

Its quite interesting to see Xavi coming out saying in England players after a bit of form are over rated when he has had a good month and is being over rated by Barca and other fans.
It wasn't supposed to be counter attacking with Ole. He was adamant at the start we would be playing a high pressing, front foot football and then went on to sign players who didn't suit the system which in turn forced him to stick with the counter attacking. Xavi knew from the start what he wanted and will stick by it . I understand its early days with Xavi but knocking 4 goals past each of Valencia, Atletic, Osasuna, Napoli, Bilbao and Madrid since the start of the year isn't coincidental.
 
It wasn't supposed to be counter attacking with Ole. He was adamant at the start we would be playing a high pressing, front foot football and then went on to sign players who didn't suit the system which in turn forced him to stick with the counter attacking. Xavi knew from the start what he wanted and will stick by it . I understand its early days with Xavi but knocking 4 goals past each of Valencia, Atletic, Osasuna, Napoli, Bilbao and Madrid since the start of the year isn't coincidental.

Yeah I get that, I think Xavi could go onto become a good manager, much better than Ole.

However; this season when he came in there was no pressure for him, it will be different when he is under pressure to win things.
 
Yeah I get that, I think Xavi could go onto become a good manager, much better than Ole.

However; this season when he came in there was no pressure for him, it will be different when he is under pressure to win things.
Guardiola, Enrique and now perhaps Xavi. I wish Barca would share their secret on how to turn ex players into exceptional managers.
 
Guardiola, Enrique and now perhaps Xavi. I wish Barca would share their secret on how to turn ex players into exceptional managers.

With Xavi it was the worst kept secret that he will become their manager.

I think these are just very tactical and clever people who know how they want to play.
 
Guardiola, Enrique and now perhaps Xavi. I wish Barca would share their secret on how to turn ex players into exceptional managers.

Not have Fergie as a manager. Fergie despite his brilliance, is bad at teaching his players how to be a good manager.

He can get away with not caring about tactics because he was special. But most players and managers can't be him. Most good managers have to learn a lot about tactics and how to implemenet them.

It's easier to emulate Cruyff than it is to emulate Fergie. His players all learnt the wrong lesson in wanting to emulate him.

That and Fergie's school of football had became outdated. Until a new brilliant manager comes in and somehow makes 4-4-2 a valuable formation again... It's not likely to happen to United.
 
After 3 years Ole still didn't know the style of play he wanted for us. It took Xavi about 3 minutes. The difference is night and day.
Exactly. Ole identified RB and CB as two positions that we needed to strengthen and invested 130m only to find out that we had not improved that much. Hard to see Xavi doing the same. Torres is a very good signing.
 
With Xavi it was the worst kept secret that he will become their manager.

I think these are just very tactical and clever people who know how they want to play.
Xavi was very clever in turning Barca down twice before he finally came. He's come at the perfect time with the emergence of players like Pedri, Gavi, Araujo, Nico and already having players like Fati, F. De Jong and Dembele. Bringing in Torres, Adama and Auba was a very astute move by the club and within a very short space of time the whole atmosphere at the club has changed.

Great players but they still need to be coached and I think Xavi will thrive with this team.

Not have Fergie as a manager. Fergie despite his brilliance, is bad at teaching his players how to be a good manager.

He can get away with not caring about tactics because he was special. But most players and managers can't be him. Most good managers have to learn a lot about tactics and how to implemenet them.

It's easier to emulate Cruyff than it is to emulate Fergie. His players all learnt the wrong lesson in wanting to emulate him.

That and Fergie's school of football had became outdated. Until a new brilliant manager comes in and somehow makes 4-4-2 a valuable formation again... It's not likely to happen to United.
I think you're being a tad harsh on SAF. While it's true he was more old school his biggest rival was Wenger. A complete hipster for his time. A very meticulous professor of the sport who I'm sure went into great details every time his team played. How many of his ex players have went on to have great managerial careers? Not a one although Viera might still have a chance.

I don't know if there's some sort of formula to make a great manager or if it's inbuilt into them from the beginning but Barca churning out 2, possibly 3 great managers in a short space of time certainly can't be a coincidence. Many players play under great managers but very few make the grade themselves which does ponder the question.

Exactly. Ole identified RB and CB as two positions that we needed to strengthen and invested 130m only to find out that we had not improved that much. Hard to see Xavi doing the same. Torres is a very good signing.

Surprised me when Torres left City. He was looking a good buy up until his injury. Maybe looking for more playing time to up his chances for the WC. He certainly went there at an exciting time. It's amazing how clubs can turn their fortunes round in such a short space of time and we're still struggling 10 years later.
 
How they worked from day to day is up to them. Some managers let other take controll of some things. Some others want to controll everything.

At the very least, though, a manager should be the one deciding and dictating a certain style of play. He doesn't have to do the actual coaching for that, but if he doesn't do the coaching and doesn't have final power in selecting which players to bring in - which should be vital, as he's the best one to know which players fit his style - then I'm not sure what's the point of him.

Part of the issue is, I don't think Solskjaer had a clear style and it was reflected in our transfers.

Big problem is that post Fergie we have been buying ”popular” players to please fans. Solskjaer was no stranger to that. We didn’t need some of those big transfers. Lot of bad, bad transfers have now happened post Fergie. Players we didn’t need. Players that get lot of money and they don’t need to perform. They know that. They will still play because of power. When you put those players in the corner with some kind of pressure they fall apart. This is also applied to homegrown players. And then blaming game starts. Who goes out first? Always managers because it is easier to change one instead of 15. I hope club can stick with Rangnick if he wants and not get some ”popular”manager. Regardless what happens, new manager time.

I don't think we signed these players to please fans. We wanted them, or most of them, because the manager wanted them. But I would agree that going for the big transfer time and time again was not right and didn't not solve anything.

As for Rangnick, I hope we stick with him and give him some power in our system. Not as a manager, though. We had a plan when he was brought and we should stick to it - unlike what we did after Mourinho.