Ole was backed a lot
He fecked up and left us with a full squad of dossers
Minus a couple
Solskjaer's legacy and his future
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He fecked up and left us with a full squad of dossers
Minus a couple
His current legacy seemingly is not making a second sub until at least the 80th minute.
It sounds like Ralf has them playing ineffective football.
He wanted the player. I'm sure he had a rough idea of price. He's building a squad. He could've chosen a cheaper option. I know he didn't negotiate the transfer, but I think he's a little more culpable than you think.
The point is that if you are building towards something with a competent manager over time things will "click" as players adapt to the style and you reshuffle the squad. Even Klopp had a fair share of shifty results over the first years at Liverpool.
Of course Ralf does not have Klopp's CV and whether he will have done a good job remains to be seen. And if we hire a permanent manager with different style, then yes, what's the point. But at least under him our performances are improving and we do look a lot more coherent than a month ago. And he has been here for 2 months and did not make any signings.
Yes, Ole started well as an interim (since he took over a team that was actually coached decently and was hampered by toxic atmosphere), but then the performances have been steadily declining and we were awful at the end of the season, losing 5 out of 9 and no wins in last 5 games. Yet there was hardly any criticism of Ole (only some doubt about his credentials), and his interim stint was still overwhelmingly praised, despite us turning really bad after a rosy period of 10 games and us not really going anywhere (from 6th to 6th in the league, crashing against Barca anyway after - great but lucky - PsG night).
There was talk of "players run out of steam, Ole needs preseason", "he needs ro buy his own players" etc etc. Yet with Ralf after 2 months, and no transfers knives are already out by a significant part of the forum. I feel Ralf is unfairly treated more harshly compared to Ole.
Of course he had a role but to blame him for the fee is ridiculous.
If Ralf was hired as permanent manager with a 3 year contract, I’d agree with the results first stuff… but we’re in a weird and unique situation that we’ve never been before and very few clubs get into, where we have an interim manager who we’ve actually hired to go upstairs into the boardroom but he’ll work with the squad for these 6 months and advise us from there.
I‘ll argue that the expectations are somewhat different for an interim manager than a permanent manager. The permanent manager who started the season, near 3 years on the job was expected to make a title challenge really, but the results nosedived into humiliation and he was rightfully sacked. It looks like we’ve deliberately not taken on Conte due to that being such an obvious open goal at the time, so I get the feeling Utd have decided to lower the expectations for this season and try a short term pain for long term gain approach… hence the hiring of Ralf.
I get the feeling that Utd are willing to forgo CL next season in the attempt to try something different. The Utd press releases when Ralf got appointed, talk more about his abilities of being a great footballing director rather than a great manager (which is true really). I get the feeling that CL qualification is seen more as a bonus objective this year, rather than an absolute necessity.
My guess is Ralf’s main objective is probably more around evaluate the squad, see which ones can stay and go, get them playing a style of play that Utd can build on for next season and then advise accordingly from upstairs.
Regarding AWB and correct me if I’m wrong on this, I’m pretty sure Solskjaer said that he wanted to play free flowing attacking football with emphasis on full backs being the actual wingers like is the fashion now. I don’t think he ever said he wanted play counter attacking football that he ended up falling into, so him buying and using AWB doesn’t really match up with what he wanted to do.
He also said he wanted to play a high line and ended up buying one of the slowest centre halves while having a goalkeeper who’s rooted to his line 90% of the time. That, combined with his comments about not really being into tactics and football being very simple and mostly about wanting it more than the opponent, tells me that Ole was a bit clueless right from the start of his first full season in charge.
Damn you ole making us miss chances in first half and play badly in second half damn youuuuuuuu
Seems the opposite to me - loads of people saying RR is great despite the shit results, whereas loads of people judged Ole before he started, credited the players when we won and criticised Ole when we lost.
I like RR and he seems like a smart man. If and when everything clicks I will be delighted (but also rather surprised).
I remember wildspread skepticism and doubting of Ole's credentials when we was hired for an interim, yes. But that run and the night in Paris really got into people's head (myself included). First real doubts started to appear toward mid-season of 19/20, which was completely fair given the performances, results and Ole's credentials. But very well may be that I am biased and misremembering, won't insist here.
People should drop whole Ole thing, its behind us, with time and money wasted, while winning feck all in the process. Lets remember positive things he gave us and move on.
If the board weren't so stupid and gotten us the desperately needed DM, we'd have Ogs still at the wheel.
Thank God for our board then.
We've marginally improved our performances but still faced with the same issues as under OGS. Can't defend a lead, struggling to score, getting beat up in midfield and its all a shitshow.
This is so true! VDB purchase is one of the main reasons led to the disaster this season. I can imagine the board just saying we have enough midfielders already and cm is not a priority!
He'll leave a good foundation for the next manager they say
Captain 'Arry Maguire is Ole's legacy, sadly.
For the solkjaer crew, if we had been winning = "foundations!"
If we play crap = "vindicated!"
If we play crap = "vindicated!"
I was actually happy to see Ole as the interim manager and thought we hit the jackpot during his first few weeks. He certainly had my support and benefit of the doubt in the beginning. However, he gradually lost my support until it became clear to me he needed to go.
It feels to me that Ole actually got a ton of leeway because of his likability among the fans rather than being judged before he started.
130 million for Maguire and Bissaka
And similarly for the outers
winning=this is what good coaching does
losing= Ole didnt coach in the 3 years
It's been almost 4 months since he's left us. If people are blaming Ole for not managing to beat Boro, Burnley and Newcastle, then they need to get their heads checked.
It's rich that Ole cult is saying like after x months the issue is all on Ragnick. Go back at the end of 18-19 season, and read what Ole himself and his backers said about not having a clean slate inheriting mid season from Mourinho.
Too used with double standard approach ain't it? Talk the talk but not walk the walk.
Too used with double standard approach ain't it? Talk the talk but not walk the walk.
He got leeway from many and none from others.
If people think current set of result some how vindicates Ole, then they are delusional about Ole time here.
As a player, I will always admire and remember him fondly. As a manager not so much
As a player, I will always admire and remember him fondly. As a manager not so much
I won’t insist either but I think the reality is that everyone saw it their own way. There was certainly a lot of Ole out sentiment early on and even when we were winning there were loads of “individual brilliance” and “counter attacking” and “no patterns of play” comments.
I doubt people are blaming Rangnick here. It just happens to be one of those phases where you can't blame either of the 2 managers. Just like it would be stupid to blame Mou for our loss to Cardiff at the end of 18-19 season.
The side Mou built was for himself not his successor. The side Ole built was keeping in mind his style of play not his successors'.
An £80mil albatross that people are still making excuses for.
Add 50mil and 40mil down the drain too
Two of the three brilliant signings
The magic trio at Ipswich
Ole had a back handed criticism of Mourinho's fitness regime, and associated the drop off at the end of 18-19 to fitness issue. Promising the sky about his United team would out run, out fight opposition
Search old thread, and saw how many bought into this. Then compare it to the real state of Ole team. Still a team getting out run and out fought by opposition.
The side Mourinho built was for himself. Sure, yet it has the defensive principles well drilled into the team, which can be reused. Ole managed to erase that from this team. His team was even getting worse in term of low block defending, and counter attack in the end. There is no foundation left to build on. There is too much to coach this squad mid season. And last but not least, many in this team are indulged and spoiled rotten in "expressing themselves" vibe that they develop a bad habit of playing according to instincts. They're having a hard to time to spot a pass, one touch football, playing offside trap instead of backing off at first sight of counter attacking... because they're too used to shoot first, taking many touches...
No they don't. This is Ole's legacy. He wasted money on Maguire, AWB, Donny, James, Diallo, Martial(contract) etc He has left us in this absolute shit show of a mess with nothing to show for it. Ole assembled a team of names and nothing else. 3 years of an incompetent man. At least give the new manager one transfer window before judging.
Damage inflicted by ole will take a couple of years to undo.
Metric | 2017/18 | 2019/20 | 2020/21 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Goals Conceded | 28 | 36 | 44 |
| Shots Conceded per game (whoscored) | 11.5 | 10.3 | 11.3 |
| xGA(fbref) | 41.7 (5th) | 37.4(3rd) | 42.2 (4th) |
| Pressures in final 3rd (fbref) | 1265 (7th) | 1361(10th) | 1340 (5th) |
| PPDA (understat) | 10.25 (7th) | 9.64 (6th) | 10.95 (9th) |
The thing is if we compare Mou's best season with the two full seasons of Ole, it's weird for anyone to say that the team wasn't doing well defensively under Ole. Sure there were terrible performances, but over a season, barring goals conceded (which was thanks to Dave's GOAT season), there is no underlying metric where that season was better than either of the full seasons under Ole.
THis season, no one's saying things didnt get bad, and he was sacked, but to say that the defending happened as the players wished, you'd assume that he signed Milan 2003 defence.
People need to get to a final script to blame something - you can't have "Look at our players decision making. All are idiots" and also go on with "individual brilliance". Both can't be true at the same time. Similarly, you can't have for a side finishing in top 4 in consecutive seasons both "built a horrible squad" and "No tactics only vibes". It just doesn't add up.
He fecked up this season, but blaming Ole for loss vs Boro, draws vs Burnley and Newcastle is idiotic. If you want to do that, then credit Ole for the wins post his sacking as well
And who isnt giving Rangnick time? I dont think many are going Rangnick Out - and even if they are, how many happened to be Ole supporters?
You can't have 30 mins vs Palace on Rangnick, 60 mins on Ole, 1st half vs Burnely on Rangnick, 2nd on Ole. 90 mins vs WHU on RR, 90 mins vs Newcastle on Ole
I really dont understand 130m for Maguire and AWB.
I could understand if Maguire was a 20m punters, a young potential CB who might or might not be the real deal.
But for 80M budget, you can practically pick 99% of players and would likely going your way. Especially with that kind of transfer and wage. But ole gotta pick a player who's very trait contradicts how he wants to play. Does he even see Maguire plays, or if he only peek at his stat from an FM saves? AwB has a very glaring anr obvious flaw it mind boggles why ole sanction 50m purchase when again at that price he could have probably bought 97% out of 100 full back of his choice.
I could understand if Maguire was a 20m punters, a young potential CB who might or might not be the real deal.
But for 80M budget, you can practically pick 99% of players and would likely going your way. Especially with that kind of transfer and wage. But ole gotta pick a player who's very trait contradicts how he wants to play. Does he even see Maguire plays, or if he only peek at his stat from an FM saves? AwB has a very glaring anr obvious flaw it mind boggles why ole sanction 50m purchase when again at that price he could have probably bought 97% out of 100 full back of his choice.
The bias is just seeping out of this post it's incredible.
I don't think this is happening at all - Ole's football stayed the same from day 1 until he was sacked. Ragnick's football so far has been sketchy to say the least although there had been a slow upward trend until Burnley but it's his first few months. If this style of football remained at the end of the season he'll be gone (ignoring he's going anyway as he's interim) whereas Ole survived multiple seasons and was backed heavily. Ragnick still gets benefit of the doubt because he's what 10 games in?
The implication that we would be winning games. I understand that you dont want the team to win.