Solskjaer's legacy and his future
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I am pleased I have atleast made you admit that Ole was not in charge of transfers. I think this is the closest I will get you to come to admit he didn’t identify and sign DVB, thanks.
Regarding Henderson, you are just guessing, there is no evidence Henderson and De Gea were told that Henderson would be number one, in fact, I would say that’s nonsense to be honest.
As for Lingard, now you are really clutching to blame things on Ole. That is a weird thing to expect Ole to do. Who would ever agree to loan a player to a rival with one year left on his contract. If he did block him then good! That is clearly the clubs or Lingard fault for any permanent transfer falling through.
Ole clearly signed a pact with the devil, the amount of luck he had. Hard to judge him after that. The only thing he wasn’t lucky about was FA Cup draws. Great player, awful manager that way exceeded his abilities in getting us to 2nd and the decisions made during his reign have left us where we are today.
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I think it is difficult to really blame Ole as he should never have been made permanent in the first place, after that he tried his best and clung on as long as he could. There are questionable transfers, regression in our play, too much favouritism etc but he shoudn't have been the manger, the blame ultimately goes further up. If I have a co-worker bad at their job and our boss lets them get away with it that's on the boss. I don't think he really leaves a legacy as this squad is going to get ripped to shreds and there were no trophies to celebrate, it is just a period where we started miles behind City and ended it miles behind them.
Cmon I don’t need evidence to suggest someone on 400k a week should be playing or it will cause issues amongst the players involved and for future negotiations.
Your second point is just wrong, you realise there is a panel that decides the transfers? The idea that Ole spent the 440m on his own is laughable. Can you imagine Ole scouting Amad and Dan James?
Obviously I agree with your point that Ole had involvement in the final decision on incomings and our comings but let’s be realistic, the club identify the targets not Ole. He is told which profile of player to sign (young or marketable like Ronaldo). He was a huge yes man, again I do agree that he does need to take blame for that.
Regarding replacing the coaching staff, I fully agree he should have replaced them and thats part of what cost him his job. However that doesn’t excuse the club of keep forcing coaches on managers (Giggs on LVG, McKenna on Mourinho, Carrick and Fletcher on Ole).
So me saying he blocked VDB’s loan, means I’m admitting he’s not in charge of transfers. Why would he block his loan move if he wasn’t involved with transfers.
Ole chose to get VDB signed, thinking he would be a Bruno back-up. And, just like Sancho, had no idea how to use him.
I already told you he isn’t directly involved in contracts and salaries/transfer fees, but he got a big say in who comes and who stays.
No need to make up things I didn’t say.
I did not say Henderson was told he was number one. I said he was promised game time which was reported numerous times. Again, no need to make up things I did not say.
I’m not clutching at anything. We can write a book about Ole’s shortcomings.
First, there would have been no shortage of teams interested in Lingard if Ole really wanted to loan him out. Second, West Ham were not supposed to be our rivals at the beginning of the season. We were supposed to fight for the title with the signings we made. Even Ole himself told Sky Sports at the beginning that he was going to be judged on the trophies he won (unless you’re calling him a liar). So West Ham were not supposed to be our direct competition by his standards at the beginning of the season .
It’s everybody’s fault but his
You didn't just suggest that. You claimed:
Anyway, if someone is not doing well enough, and we have someone who can do a better job than him, then the better player should play. If the manager can't handlethat because of how much money the off-form player is getting, he is weak and has no business being a manager. It's not the club's fault, it's the manager's fault.
No, I don't imagine Solskjaer scouting James anymore than I can imagine Fergie scouting Ole (which he didn't, Jim Ryan found him and he was signed pronto). So what does that mean? Different people were working on different aspects when it comes to finding, scouting and signing players. Nothing new, nothing unusual.
I know there is a panel. I'm also sure it wouldn't bring in a player if the manager thought he wasn't right for him. He might not have come up with all the players he bought, but there's nothing wrong there as long as he decided who is right for him and who is not.
If he could have replaced them, then they weren't forced on him.
Football clubs like at times to involve their own people in the staff. Doesn't mean the manager can't bring in his own men. I know United wanted Giggs to be LVG's assistant. I see no evidence as to anyone being forced on Mourinho or Solskjaer.
Spot on. Nobody can say they asked him if he wanted to replace them, then claim they were forced on him.
I think you underestimate the constraints Ole was working under. He can’t throw De Gea in the bin, equally he couldn’t just throw someone like Rashford in the bin. Although the board don’t choose the starting 11, they would clearly give him instructions as to who is the prized assets etc. It’s old fashioned way of thinking that managers can do what they want. Nowadays players are worth 100’s millions and are important assets.
Big difference as the scouts reported to Fergie, our structure has completely changed since those days. The head scout now has an equal say as Ole in transfers, therefor should also take equal responsibility.
I do fully agree with you there that Ole should have brought in the best coaches to assist him
Why would the best coaches want to work under a poor manager? At the end of the day a club as big as United can do far better than Solskjaer and shouldn't be trying to hire talented coaching staff to try and make up for the managers shortcomings, which is something I seen quite a few people suggest during the course of his tenure.I think you underestimate the constraints Ole was working under. He can’t throw De Gea in the bin, equally he couldn’t just throw someone like Rashford in the bin. Although the board don’t choose the starting 11, they would clearly give him instructions as to who is the prized assets etc. It’s old fashioned way of thinking that managers can do what they want. Nowadays players are worth 100’s millions and are important assets.
Big difference as the scouts reported to Fergie, our structure has completely changed since those days. The head scout now has an equal say as Ole in transfers, therefor should also take equal responsibility.
I do fully agree with you there that Ole should have brought in the best coaches to assist him
Exactly! The idea that we should've brought in top talent staff to be crutches to Ole is utterly stupid. They should come here to work and learn under the manager, the manager shouldnt learn from his assistants!
People were so desperate to keep an awful manager in place they'd come up with one stupid idea after another.
Easily one of the worst "manager" this league has ever seen.
Every manager in the world works under some constraints. And most of them would love to have the ones Solskjaer had, even though you're massively exaggerating. The way you are putting it, Solskjaer could do very little when it came to signing players or make decisions over the existing squad.
The reality is that when he thought it was the right call, Solskjaer benched De Gea for months. So yes, he could do it, and did it.
Fine, sack the head scout too as far as I am concerned. But if Solskjaer gave his agreement, then he is the main culprit. Partly because he - and not a scout - was the one who should have had a system in mind and know which new signings fitted well with it and each other.
It is wierd that people still have a go at Solskjaer. He did good job until this season when things just went bad. We showed progress and suddenly players decided to play like they came out from pubs.
Put blame where it should be. On players. Their character. Their passion. Their desire. Solskjaer isn't blameless but majority of the things that went wrong are on players. Not Solskjaer. Not Woodward and directors. Not Glazers.
Put blame where it should be. On players. Their character. Their passion. Their desire. Solskjaer isn't blameless but majority of the things that went wrong are on players. Not Solskjaer. Not Woodward and directors. Not Glazers.
Ole did a shite job. He never bothered coaching and I think he was one of the luckiest managers around. Covid lockdown meant he never faced fan pressure, he still finished miles off 1st every time and won feck all. Prioritised wrong positions in transfers, spent wrong in the choices he did make and hoarded surplus talent with false promises.
Easily the worst manager we had in the history of the Premier League.
It is really incredible that people blame managers all the time. But never ever players. vanGaal not good enough. Mourinho not good enough. Solskjaer not good enough. And to believe rumours players aren't exactly pleased with Rangnick where some fans have already talked about not good enough. Nobody seems to be good enough for our players.
And no, he wasn't worst manager. Solskjaer did good job. Yes, he didn't won titles but we were top 3 every (whole) year with him. Countless semifinals and finals.
Eh? Lets be clear this topic is on Ole. Whether the others failed too is another matter but at the bare minimum they were winners. They got silverware on the board and moved on.
Ole did feck all and reduced our player mentality in the process.
Topic is on Solskjaer but if you don't include history before him and shortly after him, you are not going to be thruthful. You can blame him and other manager every single day but we know where blame lies. Problem is you can't sack every player. But you can sack one manager and hope for short success until fans start all over again putting blame on managers.
Im not taking blame from the players. They shoulder burden but player mentality weakened and player power stengthened in Oles time. He won nothing and was all vibes and hi5s with no coaching. For this reason is the biggest failure. At the very least previous managers were able to instil some disciplines and win a cup in a fair bit less time.
Only Moyes you can say was as bad but he had half a season. Ole did a number on the squad for 3 years with feck all to show for it.
Are you serious? Do you remember what it was like when Jose left.
Pogba basically downed tools when the club signed Sanchez on more money than him.
Jose "messed with the wrong baller" after all.
He was the LUCKIEST manager around, no question about it. As I mentioned before, the only place he didn't get lucky was the FA Cup fixtures. But we've been unlucky on those for years. Funny how we would have got Tottenham had we gone through, whereas yet again City and Chelsea get absolute cherries. Unbelievable.
Back to Ole though.It was all a dream we just hoped would work. There was never any real reason why it would. And we progressed with it far too long. Thought maybe he was our Zidane. But he was a false prophet. And the idea of relying on individual brilliance is a stupid one. What if those players go through a run of bad form? What if they get injured? Nothing to fall back on and that was his downfall. Still pissed at how he treated Donny and his utter favoritism. If players play badly and don't lose their first team position, where is the motivation—either for the guys playing badly or the ones pushing to get in? Stupid.It was as though he were reading the book of Fergie but not understanding it. Loyalty to players in front of the media, sure. But it's not as though we're dealing with Rooney. The one player that needed to play shite a few times to work himself back into form. This was Fred and McTominay, yet Donny didn't even get a sniff. And don't get me started on Maguire. Then there were the contract extensions for Jones and Mata. 4 years for Jones when he'd barely played a second. Just incredible.
Ole gave us Paris and a few other nice memories but he also gave us Seville, one of the worst managerial performances I have ever witnessed.
Great player, good interim but never should have gotten his extension.
feckin hell! some people just can't let go of their hatred
I remember fully. Oles worst was far worse than Joses and he won feck all too. In a longer time.
Terrible manager. Even his best season he couldn't reach Joses total points in a single season, despite spending a bucket load on the defence and being given Bruno Fernandes. At least Jose delivered a cup as well.
He wasn't nearly as good as Mourinho who won several trophies, but he was better than Moyes, who was got rid off quickly. Van Gaal did slightly better than him overall and then you have to add on top of that Van Gaal's FA Cup win, so LVG ends up having had a comfortably better reign.
So of the post Fergie managers, he did better than Moyes who never had any backing, while having longer in the job than two managers who did at least bring in some silverware.
The most you could say is that he was average, anything else just seems excessive. What did he actually achieve?
So of the post Fergie managers, he did better than Moyes who never had any backing, while having longer in the job than two managers who did at least bring in some silverware.
The most you could say is that he was average, anything else just seems excessive. What did he actually achieve?
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When one set of players fails, you can look at the players. But we've had so many since 2013, with different managers assembling different squads. Therefore, it's absolutely not "Nobody seems to be good enough for our players", as we're talking about dozens of them coming and going.
Morelike, nobody seems to be able to assemble a squad good enough and work with it properly.
So he gets the criticism for signing the defenders but no praise for signing Bruno? What was the difference?
I'm sure you've got some decent opinions on the subject but it's that sort of one sided extreme viewpoint that completely undermines anything you say.
What about the fact that he was "given" Bruno 6 months after he should have been which completely wrote off a season? That was Ole's fault too presumably?
He wasn't much better than moyes. Moyes got dealt a shit hand with the old guards looking down on him, lack of support and lack of guts to buy big, managing straight after fergie with the whole squad going against him
Granted half of it was his own doing but ole is given the world at his feet, free reign, 110% support and in the end.. he fecked it all up.
Leave Ole alone and watch his daughter become a star of the womens team and carry on his legacy! The womens team is the only positive at Manchester United atm. The girls are playing with the passion and pride you would expect from any player wearing the United badge, its so refreshing.
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I agree. All this entitled nonsense emanating from the squad - I feel a lot of it has to do with Ole's indulging them. It'll take a long time to sort this out.
Countless finals? Moyes was the worst, then Ole. 440 mill spent to win feck all
Coaches forced on Ole my arse. He was given a chance to change all his coaching staffs according to reports before he was sacked and he declined to do so. You can do a bit of searching to find this info. He decided to hire and stick with his mates because no one will call out his incompetence. We are still in a rut partly because of the shite oversized squad he left his successor and the lack of coaching for the last 3 years. Forced to play De Gea ? He dropped him for Henderson ffs.
Tried his best and helped us.
How people can go towards looking down on him after all he has done as a legend of this club is severely embarrassing.
How people can go towards looking down on him after all he has done as a legend of this club is severely embarrassing.
People have become too entrenched in believing a change in manager will solve everything. It's always been the case that the quality and mentality of the players available is more important.
Many of those that are blaming Ole now also thought this squad was good enough for a title challenge pre season (it wasn't).
Its actually incredible that muppets swing between blaming players and managers. None of them try to fail or want to play badly. Its the club board and owners who make these decisions. Thats where the blame lies. Sure, Ole should have had the self awareness to bring in proper coaches and even to walk once it went toxic, but not his fault he was given a job, initiall temp, then made permanent, then even renewed, when he had no qualifications for the job whatsoever. Nor the fault of many players we give them stupid money, renew contracts when they dont pay and then refuse to let them leave. its on the Glazers and Woodward. Debate all you like, but it wont change the reality.
Ole's legacy will be seen as one of incompetence, mediocrity and jobs for the boys. If he never gets another PL appointment which I suspect he won't it will be even more damning.
He was a puppet disguised as a manager and for the most part didn't know what he was doing. I'd attribute most of his 'success' down to keeping squad morale high, after all if you have good players in a good mood it will get you somewhere. Once that morale hit the wall it became the shitshow that most of us could see coming.
Still love the player and the man but Ole the manager is as bad as it gets at this level.
He was a puppet disguised as a manager and for the most part didn't know what he was doing. I'd attribute most of his 'success' down to keeping squad morale high, after all if you have good players in a good mood it will get you somewhere. Once that morale hit the wall it became the shitshow that most of us could see coming.
Still love the player and the man but Ole the manager is as bad as it gets at this level.
This gif's more relevant for him than it ever was for Daglish.
Lot of players have played for atleast two managers and some for even more managers. And still there are same problems. I think it is about character.
I didn't say that he was spot on. There are things we can put blame on him too. Mostly, as you said, trying to please some players who should be out from the club.
He did improve our defence with Maguire and Bissaka. Not that they are great but they improved us. Did we need to pay as much for those? Ofcourse not. But that was the price we needed to pay. We have always overpaid players. That is nothing new with Solskjaer. What needs to be said is that he isn't the only one who makes or decide on signings. And why don't he get any credit for signings that were really good?
On paper squad looks pretty good. That is on paper. In reality many are just average and there needs to be a miracle worker to get these players to perform. What we lack most is characters and leaders in the team. I think that Keane once said that you can't trust our players.
Change Solskjaer to some players name that are seen as "stars" and you got it right. Pretenders that somehow got chance to play for our team.
Varane was an outstanding signing.
When you can afford to spend 140 M you are supposed to bring in real quality. Not blow it on 2 average players. Chelsea’s back 3 together costed them less than half that figure. And it has already delivered some silverware.