Solskjaer's legacy and his future

Lot of players have played for atleast two managers and some for even more managers. And still there are same problems. I think it is about character.

Which brings us back to the managers, as they assembles their squads, bought players, decided the starting lineup. If they chose players with crap characters, the problem is the managers.

Again, if we had the same set of players over the last 9 years and the managers couldn't make changes, I could say we had players with bad character and that was the big issue. But it wasn't. We've made tons of changes. And it's not very realistic to think we had so many players with bad characters.
 
People have become too entrenched in believing a change in manager will solve everything. It's always been the case that the quality and mentality of the players available is more important.

Many of those that are blaming Ole now also thought this squad was good enough for a title challenge pre season (it wasn't).
I think with a top coach we would be amongst or above Pool/Chelsea at the moment. Look at our results and say Flick was our coach (using him as an example as I'm assuming everyone rates him) do you not think we could have beaten Watford & Villa? That would put us 1 point behind Chelsea and we've played 2 games less than them... then you just look at the stupid dropped points, we have drawn with Newcastle & Everton (who are relegation fighters this season) and we got hammered by Leicester who are poor this season. That's just off the top of my head, there are other stupid draws I'm sure.

I think there's a very strong argument to say we wouldn't play as exciting football as Pool or as controlled football as City, and we wouldn't be favourites for the title, but we should be right amongst the chasing pack.
 
I think with a top coach we would be amongst or above Pool/Chelsea at the moment. Look at our results and say Flick was our coach (using him as an example as I'm assuming everyone rates him) do you not think we could have beaten Watford & Villa? That would put us 1 point behind Chelsea and we've played 2 games less than them... then you just look at the stupid dropped points, we have drawn with Newcastle & Everton (who are relegation fighters this season) and we got hammered by Leicester who are poor this season. That's just off the top of my head, there are other stupid draws I'm sure.

I think there's a very strong argument to say we wouldn't play as exciting football as Pool or as controlled football as City, and we wouldn't be favourites for the title, but we should be right amongst the chasing pack.
I honestly don't know how anyone can look at our squad and think it's up with Liverpools or City's. They are better in every single position.

The only reason we would be close to Chelsea in your scenario is because their results have dropped off. Don't they have a 'top coach' though?
(the Tuchel hype seems to have died down a bit on here lately)
 
It is really incredible that people blame managers all the time. But never ever players. vanGaal not good enough. Mourinho not good enough. Solskjaer not good enough. And to believe rumours players aren't exactly pleased with Rangnick where some fans have already talked about not good enough. Nobody seems to be good enough for our players.

And no, he wasn't worst manager. Solskjaer did good job. Yes, he didn't won titles but we were top 3 every (whole) year with him. Countless semifinals and finals.
Of course, the managers are tasked to get the best out of the players. And let me give you an example, go no further than Sir Alex and his 2013 team.

That team won the title by 12 points. Next season, the exact same team finished 7th under Moyes. You will never get a much clearer split test of the impact of a manager on a group of players. Unless of course you think, all our players turned to shit over night. Personally I think if SAF that team had at least 2 more seasons in it to finish Top3. That is the impact of a manager.

As for Ole, not only did he spent a ton, what exactly did he leave us with? An unbalanced squad full of unhappy players that we are now scrambling to loan out? Players unwilling to train and act surprised when asked to run? 0 trophies? And no, Top4 finishes for a club of our stature and spending is completely unacceptable.

The man failed and thank God he was sacked because finally we can actually focus on meritocracy and leave this whole "he understands the club" nonsense behind.
 
Why would the best coaches want to work under a poor manager? At the end of the day a club as big as United can do far better than Solskjaer and shouldn't be trying to hire talented coaching staff to try and make up for the managers shortcomings, which is something I seen quite a few people suggest during the course of his tenure.
Why did Sancho want to come play under a poor manager?
 
I honestly don't know how anyone can look at our squad and think it's up with Liverpools or City's. They are better in every single position.

The only reason we would be close to Chelsea in your scenario is because their results have dropped off. Don't they have a 'top coach' though?
(the Tuchel hype seems to have died down a bit on here lately)
He's clearly a very good coach, my take was this season would define if he was world class (i.e. win PL or CL again). I do think they got a bit fecked over by the PL when they got made to play in contrast to Villa being allowed to call a game off with 2 hours notice but expect they'll be close enough by end of season.

I don't really see the point is saying x is better than y in certain positions because Pool have a top coach and we don't, that's what a top coach will do - he'll make players we all thought were good but not amazing into world class and elite players. It's like when Mou started well at Spurs we had at least 50% of the caf crying about how none of United's players would get into their first XI, there was even a Wolves versus United one at a low point a coupe of years ago on here. We think very poorly of pretty much all our players, if we now go on a run and win the next 10 games maybe we'll start loving them again. Conversely it only takes a few bad showings and suddenly Mane's finished, just like people were saying last season.

Pool have a set system and great players for that system but they still concede a lot and have drawn to many games so far. It wouldn't be that crazy to think in the hypothetical scenario of Flick being our manager we could have beaten Watford, Newcastle and Leicester and be 1 point behind them.
 
The only reason we would be close to Chelsea in your scenario is because their results have dropped off. Don't they have a 'top coach' though?
(the Tuchel hype seems to have died down a bit on here lately)

We haven’t been great this season. We started very well. We have had injuries and other situations this season that has definitely affected our form. I never penned us for top2 this season anyway. Just wanted to be closer to Liverpool and City. With the club World Cup too, I do think our league form will continue to be up and down.

Honestly this season is turning into a weird one for everyone below the top2. How Arsenal got anywhere near top 4 is proof of that. It’s hard to predict how this season will finish.
 
It is really incredible that people blame managers all the time. But never ever players. vanGaal not good enough. Mourinho not good enough. Solskjaer not good enough. And to believe rumours players aren't exactly pleased with Rangnick where some fans have already talked about not good enough. Nobody seems to be good enough for our players.

And no, he wasn't worst manager. Solskjaer did good job. Yes, he didn't won titles but we were top 3 every (whole) year with him. Countless semifinals and finals.

The players under LVG aren't the same as the ones under Mourinho or OGS. Maguire, Varane, Ronaldo, Sancho, Greenwood, Cavani, AWB, Pogba and Bruno can't be blamed for LVG not working out. "Our players" is a constantly changing group.

People have become too entrenched in believing a change in manager will solve everything. It's always been the case that the quality and mentality of the players available is more important.

Many of those that are blaming Ole now also thought this squad was good enough for a title challenge pre season (it wasn't).

Which is massively influenced by the manager. SAF proved that. Tuchel proved that.

Moyes and OGS weren't good enough and LVG and Mourinho were outdated. No other top club would have gone near them. The same can't be said for some of our players.
 
Many of those that are blaming Ole now also thought this squad was good enough for a title challenge pre season (it wasn't).
Yeh… And they probably still think the squad is of title challenging quality:lol: Stupid morons!
 
People have become too entrenched in believing a change in manager will solve everything. It's always been the case that the quality and mentality of the players available is more important.

Many of those that are blaming Ole now also thought this squad was good enough for a title challenge pre season (it wasn't).
Not even sure what this argument is. Managing the mentality of an employee to ensure they're happy and performing at their best isn't restricted to football. Its a thing in any professional career.
 
Harry Maguire.

He made him the most expensive defender in the history of football, and doubled down on it by making him our captain.

That's his legacy.
 
Harry Maguire.

He made him the most expensive defender in the history of football, and doubled down on it by making him our captain.

That's his legacy.
And we can't even get rid of him.
 
I hope the remaining hardcore Ole supporters here will realise some day the damage he did at this club. Hands down the worst appointment post SAF, no contest really. How he has survived for 3 years dragging this club down is beyond me.
 
Harry Maguire.

He made him the most expensive defender in the history of football, and doubled down on it by making him our captain.

That's his legacy.
Took the words out of my mouth. Makes me want to vomit every time I hear him speak as our captain.
 
Very odd how people keep coming back to blame ole. If it’s not clear now 7 managers in who’s to blame then I don’t know what to say.
 
I hope the remaining hardcore Ole supporters here will realise some day the damage he did at this club. Hands down the worst appointment post SAF, no contest really. How he has survived for 3 years dragging this club down is beyond me.
As a manager he is absolute disaster but as a person he is clever fecker.
1) he bought fans with Braveheart phrases "United Dna, attacking football, not parking the car on Saf's spot, cultural reset..."
2) he always talked about future. "We are getting there. Progress. Long term plan."
3) downplaying our strength (denial that we can win PL)
4) setting low standards. (trophies are for ego)
5) keeping main core of players happy all the time (with playing them every game and giving them soft trainings)
6) every now and then he mentioned glory days for United ("When i was a player....")

He is a smart guy. In his first interview after the sack he said that he wants to stay in club. He knows that nobody will hire him.
He is a big football fraud but very smart one.
 
Took the words out of my mouth. Makes me want to vomit every time I hear him speak as our captain.
Maguire transfer fee is not on Ole, but I just really would like to understand Ole's reasoning for making him captain. Maguire was made captain after only 6 months at United, wasn't captain at previous clubs, does not seem to have leadership qualities or be vocal. Just why, Ole? Just because of Maguire was the most senior English first-team player? Cannot find any other explanation.
 
Very odd how people keep coming back to blame ole. If it’s not clear now 7 managers in who’s to blame then I don’t know what to say.

He did ok, should of left sooner than he did. That’s what ruined his time at the club, if he had gone out on a relative high, everyone would be singing his praises and wanting him back!
 
Harry Maguire.

He made him the most expensive defender in the history of football, and doubled down on it by making him our captain.

That's his legacy.
I came to post this. Thank you for showing I’m not the only one who thinks this. Maguire is a liability.
 
He may have made him captain but he didn’t negotiate the transfer fee, you do know that right?
We all knew what Leicester were demanding for him, didn’t we? It was all over the papers, so he had to think he was worth that amount of money and that it was more important to get him (and AWB) for £130m than buying more players, only for him to then complain about not having a deep enough squad.
 
As a manager he is absolute disaster but as a person he is clever fecker.
1) he bought fans with Braveheart phrases "United Dna, attacking football, not parking the car on Saf's spot, cultural reset..."
2) he always talked about future. "We are getting there. Progress. Long term plan."
3) downplaying our strength (denial that we can win PL)
4) setting low standards. (trophies are for ego)
5) keeping main core of players happy all the time (with playing them every game and giving them soft trainings)
6) every now and then he mentioned glory days for United ("When i was a player....")

He is a smart guy. In his first interview after the sack he said that he wants to stay in club. He knows that nobody will hire him.
He is a big football fraud but very smart one.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think this place has totally lost it. More than 2.5 months since he was sacked and people still keep on coming with new ways to blame him.

All I'll say is until the last 6 weeks of his tenure, he used to find a way to get results, even if we didn't play well, which is more than can be said of us now.

That being said, I do think we are gradually playing well under Ralf, performance wise. But somehow our biggest strength of last season has become reversed in that we can't get wins despite playing well, and for me that is more concerning than anything, because that's when players heads start to drop.

But of course I'm sure that is because the clever fecker Ole managed to convince a voodoo priest to cast a curse on us at a discounted price to protect his "legacy".
 
Ralf has got Solskjaer’s squad playing much better football than Solskjaer could this season to be honest. Its just a shame that the recent results can’t reflect that. We won 1-0 against West Ham and created a lot that game too to justify it being a potentially bigger margin.

And while you can argue that transfers are decided by a committee at Utd so that ‘Solskjaer didnt buy AWB’, Solskjaer’s much preferred RB which was AWB, is now sitting on the bench as we now look much better going forward without him in it, and I’m not saying Dalot is amazing in case you jump on me for that.
 
We all knew what Leicester were demanding for him, didn’t we? It was all over the papers, so he had to think he was worth that amount of money and that it was more important to get him (and AWB) for £130m than buying more players, only for him to then complain about not having a deep enough squad.

No he wanted to sign the players. It’s up to the board to turn around and say no they are too expensive. He is not the negotiator. He manages the team.
 
No he wanted to sign the players. It’s up to the board to turn around and say no they are too expensive. He is not the negotiator. He manages the team.
But if they do that then everyone’s going to say “the manager’s job is to select the targets and the board have to back him”. It seems very much like he locked in on the most expensive target in pretty much every position that he signed players in, apart from James, and then complained about not having squad depth. Go figure.
 
He left us in such a mess its going to take more than one season to even attempt to sort it out.
 
No he wanted to sign the players. It’s up to the board to turn around and say no they are too expensive. He is not the negotiator. He manages the team.
But then people would have said "Ole is not backed. Burn Ed. Burn Glazers".
 
But if they do that then everyone’s going to say “the manager’s job is to select the targets and the board have to back him”. It seems very much like he locked in on the most expensive target in pretty much every position that he signed players in, apart from James, and then complained about not having squad depth. Go figure.

The board refused to sign players for Mourinho I believe. If the board didn’t want to pay the price, they should have said. Ole is not the negotiator, to blame him for the fee is ridiculous.
 
I hope the remaining hardcore Ole supporters here will realise some day the damage he did at this club. Hands down the worst appointment post SAF, no contest really. How he has survived for 3 years dragging this club down is beyond me.
I don’t think any manager will have much luck under the current ownership they interfere and they don't invest aggressively.

Ole is not in the Pep class but this hyperbole about him being the worst thing to ever happen to us is nutty. I certainly enjoyed his tenure more than any since SAF. That’s why I watch football - for enjoyment.

I’m all for “patterns of play” and “seeing what he’s trying to do” but if you can’t get a win out of Middlesbrough or Burnley you have to wonder what’s the point. I wouldn’t say I want Ole back but I am sure he would have done no worse.
 
The board refused to sign players for Mourinho I believe. If the board didn’t want to pay the price, they should have said. Ole is not the negotiator, to blame him for the fee is ridiculous.
To great criticism from the people on here. They surely weren’t going to do that to a United legend in his first transfer window, were they? Like I said, the fee wasn’t his fault but he decided on the target and it can’t have been a secret how much he was going to cost seeing as everyone who followed the transfer saga knew it was 80 million quid.
 
If the board didn’t want to pay the price, they should have said. Ole is not the negotiator, to blame him for the fee is ridiculous.
The board and Ole are both to blame as they both should have balked at the fee and realized we could get 2 or 3 players at that price. It’s not rocket science.
 
Ralf has got Solskjaer’s squad playing much better football than Solskjaer could this season to be honest. Its just a shame that the recent results can’t reflect that. We won 1-0 against West Ham and created a lot that game too to justify it being a potentially bigger margin.

And while you can argue that transfers are decided by a committee at Utd so that ‘Solskjaer didnt buy AWB’, Solskjaer’s much preferred RB which was AWB, is now sitting on the bench as we now look much better going forward without him in it, and I’m not saying Dalot is amazing in case you jump on me for that.
Sorry but it’s results that matter, you can’t say Ralf has the team playing better but ole got better results: in regards AWB- I think he was a good signing for first season or two when we were counter attacking defensive team, as soon as we go front foot attacking he’s poor. So think the AWB signing needs to be looked at in right context
 
Ralf has got Solskjaer’s squad playing much better football than Solskjaer could this season to be honest. Its just a shame that the results can’t reflect that. We won 1-0 against West Ham and created a lot that game too to justify it being a potentially bigger margin.

And while you can argue that transfers are decided by a committee at Utd so that ‘Solskjaer didnt buy AWB’, Solskjaer’s much preferred RB which was AWB, is now sitting on the bench as we now look much better going forward without him in it, and I’m not saying Dalot is amazing in case you jump on me for that.
Yes, not that Dalot is very good and not a fan of Jose at all, but the fact is - he bought a RB that was 2.5 times cheaper, younger and is starting over AWB at the moment and you cannot say that it is not on merit.

Yet Jose never got any credit for Dalot, but Ole got quite a lot of credit for AWB. And for summer 2019 transfer window in general, for our brand new, "well thought-out" and "coherent" transfer strategy - just based on the fact that all
the signings were relatively young and British. Now of course the very people that lavishly praised him shifted the goalposts and are saying that transfers are not his fault or that the players were "board signings" :)