I cant understand why Woody gave him the new contract and why he thinks that Rojo can have a big role here when he has only managed to play 73 league games in 5 years due to injuries mate. Sometimes I think Woody is just mad mate
Solskjaer target 5 signings; 6 players could leave [BBC, Telegraph, Guardian]
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Can't understand why we gave a contract to a player who has missed 633 days through injuries, his record is even worse than Jones' mate
I think we gave Rojo the contract as he’s very adaptable. Not great at anything but he’s a decent squad player who can cover for CB, LB, and DM in the event of injuries. Imo, DM might be his best position, has lots more legs than Matic.I cant understand why Woody gave him the new contract and why he thinks that Rojo can have a big role here when he has only managed to play 73 league games in 5 years due to injuries mate. Sometimes I think Woody is just mad mate
Centre half or nothing, and at this point he’s not in contention at all. Has he even played as a holding midfielder before? I think I would rather see Matic at left back than Rojo centre midfield.
What do you base the first quote on? I would say we ended up in this mess because of the lack of investment. The Glazers did not open their wallets until Moyes had that catastrophic season. SAF went on and on about "There's no value in the market" Truth is he didn't have enough funds to replace sold/retiring players with equal quality replacements. Proof is in the pudding, check what we bought from 2005 up to Moyes season. And don't give me that they won us the CL in 2008, because that team was already in place when they took over. Prior to 2005 SAF had no problems breaking transfer records, Rooney, Veron, Rio etc.
In 8 years after their take-over our net spend was 150M which equals 19M / year, simply not enough to maintain dominance. Want that in context? Chelsea had a net spend of 591M during the same period, Liverpool 243M, City 545M. Pretty telling numbers.
The Glazers took over in 2005 and didn't open their wallets until Moyes finished 7th, it was too late, too many of our players were over the hill and the stars we lost either to transfers or retirement were replaced by inferior players due to lack of funds prior to that season. Why not open the wallets while still being on top? To maintain our dominance? Because they have no interest beyond what generates money.
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You bid below what you know they will accept to keep the option open should you get the money, whilst pretending you are negotiating hard for the player, it's not that hard to believe.
£100 million net spend is easy to believe, the fact that now leaves us without enough for Maguire unless we sell players is becoming fairly obvious.
He’s a much better LB than Matic!
Nothing of the sort is obvious, it’s only ‘easy to believe’ for emotional teenagers who stake their happiness on their team’s player transfers.
We have spent a lot of money under Woodward, so if we say we are in the market, there’s no reason for that to be construed as a lie, except for the imbalanced who are struggling to cope with limited signings. They want a figure to project their blame on for taking their toys away. Woodward has broken the world record, the British record twice, the world record for a teenager once and the record for a teenage defender once all in his 6 years. To claim that it’s ‘not hard to believe’ that we are operating some sort of hoax, or that it is ‘obvious’ we have no intention of making real moves in the market is ridiculous.
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Quite the reverse, just seeing it for what it is, no issue, we have the same set up, so why should it be any different this time?
Hmmm I don’t know...
I think Matic would actually be able to play a forward pass to a teammate.
You can’t ‘see it for what it is’ when you have absolutely no clue what it is. You have just proposed a conspiracy theory, and one that is particularly far-fetched based on our history in the market.
I think you make good points but I personally think if someone can't stay fit they have to go. Hate to see anyone's career not going as well as it could because of injuries, especially one of our own players. Hopefully he stay injury free so that he can have a decent season. Interesting point about him playing DM, as I've never really thought about it before.
We need someone in for Matic as I agree with you that his legs have gone and I believe we should just play him in the big games this season and when his contract expires next year in my opinion he has to go. Hope the club don't offer him extra year due to his experience as I think that would be crazy mate
I'm basing my theory on our history in the market, a net spend of £100 million is good for us, breached only once by a good margin, the only difference this time is that we seem incapable of selling players, so the money been spent looks to be less.
I can see 4 signings in total, whether that's enough is up for debate. There's a much nicer, more positive feel for this preseason than the last one and i'm excited by some of these players but i'm not sure what happens if we don't hit the ground running this season. All the blame will rightly go on Ed if we don't get any more players and things go wrong.
I hope that you are right regarding your first point in bold. Regarding the second point in bold I think it is fair for Woody to get the blame if we don't get the required signings. I would have previously liked more signings but another 2 signings from where we currently are would make me happy mate.
Bit worried there's no sign of us addressing midfield after Longstaff.
1. Not entirely serious. Was speaking in a general manner. Given people money to run things and they've not used it wisely. Would definitely consider pulling the plug. It's what happened at Arsenal and Vlla IIRC
2. The managers are the ones making most of the transfer decisions in collaboration with Woodward, Judge and the scouts
He signed that contract in March 2018. Before that he'd only had 2 long term injuries. He then got the long term injury in June that basically ruled him out until the end of last season. He got the contract because Mourinho believed in him.Can't understand why we gave a contract to a player who has missed 633 days through injuries, his record is even worse than Jones' mate
Its not just the length of injuries. He had had 11 injuries since he's been here.
His 1st season he had 3 injuries missing 12 games and 79 days, 2nd season he had 3 injuries missing 28 games and 167 days, 3rd season he actually stayed injury free, 4th season when when he had the long injury you are on about it was a cruciate ligament which put him out for 207 days and 28 games but also had another 2 that season putting him out for 31 days and 6 games. That's 74 games missed in 4 years and missing 484 days in 4 years before signing that new contract last year.
It is a 3 year + 1 contract and I don't think he should have had a contract that long after he had that many injuries. Hopefully he has a season like 16/17 and stays injury free and I hope he plays well because I don't like seeing any player injured but I would sell him if we had the chance. Although it will be hard to find someone to pay him £80,000 a week if what I've read are correct considering his record. He may stay relatively injury free for the duration of contract and play well, which I hope he does. But I don't think we can should rely on him to stay relatively injury free for the next 2-3 years. Think we should have sold last year when I think it was Everton wanted him for £25m mate. He may prove me and I hope he does but I doubt it mate.
We are not in this mess because of the Glazers - we are in this mess because we have signed or had on loan, the following players
Pogba, Lukaku, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Herrera, Rojo, Darmian, Fred, Matic, Bailly, Lindelöf, Fellaini, Mata, Memphis, Dalot, Blind, DiMaria, Falcao, Zlatan, Shaw, Romero, Valdes, Sanchez, Mkhitaryan and Martial.
We have spent what- £600-700m (I didn't bother to calculate it) to end up with:
One keeper who is a very good back-up - Romero
One superstar who wants to leave - Pogba
One striker who doens't fit into our system - Lukaku
One reckless defender we don't want - Rojo
One defender whom we never wanted - Darmian
One midfielder who was a disaster last season - Fred
One midfielder who had one good season - Matic
One defender who is a 4th choice at best - Bailly
One defender who finally starts to look solid - Lindelöf
One midfielder who has been solid and nothing more - Mata
One defender who is good but not good enouth yet - Dalot
One defender who took 5 years to really establish himself - Shaw
One attacker who is horribly inconsistent - Martial
One attacker who is the biggest flop in P.L history - Sanchez
And £600m-£700m over the last 6 or so years is probably about the equivalent to spending over £1 billion in todays market. Imagine spending £1 billion and get so little in return.
I think we have signed 25 established players since Ferguson retired (might even have forgotten someone) :
11 of them have already left the club
4 of them we want to get rid of (Rojo, Darmian, Sanchez, Lukaku)
2 of them are mostly kept to add some experience (Mata and Matic)
1 will never be more than a backup (Romero)
2 have shown absolutely nothing to indicate they will ever be regulars (Bailly, Fred)
So of all the players we have signed - we are left with Dalot, Shaw, Martial, Pogba (who wants to leave) and Lindelöf.
And it's the Glazers fault ?
We are not in this mess because of the Glazers - we are in this mess because we have signed or had on loan, the following players
Pogba, Lukaku, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Herrera, Rojo, Darmian, Fred, Matic, Bailly, Lindelöf, Fellaini, Mata, Memphis, Dalot, Blind, DiMaria, Falcao, Zlatan, Shaw, Romero, Valdes, Sanchez, Mkhitaryan and Martial.
We have spent what- £600-700m (I didn't bother to calculate it) to end up with:
One keeper who is a very good back-up - Romero
One superstar who wants to leave - Pogba
One striker who doens't fit into our system - Lukaku
One reckless defender we don't want - Rojo
One defender whom we never wanted - Darmian
One midfielder who was a disaster last season - Fred
One midfielder who had one good season - Matic
One defender who is a 4th choice at best - Bailly
One defender who finally starts to look solid - Lindelöf
One midfielder who has been solid and nothing more - Mata
One defender who is good but not good enouth yet - Dalot
One defender who took 5 years to really establish himself - Shaw
One attacker who is horribly inconsistent - Martial
One attacker who is the biggest flop in P.L history - Sanchez
And £600m-£700m over the last 6 or so years is probably about the equivalent to spending over £1 billion in todays market. Imagine spending £1 billion and get so little in return.
I think we have signed 25 established players since Ferguson retired (might even have forgotten someone) :
11 of them have already left the club
4 of them we want to get rid of (Rojo, Darmian, Sanchez, Lukaku)
2 of them are mostly kept to add some experience (Mata and Matic)
1 will never be more than a backup (Romero)
2 have shown absolutely nothing to indicate they will ever be regulars (Bailly, Fred)
So of all the players we have signed - we are left with Dalot, Shaw, Martial, Pogba (who wants to leave) and Lindelöf.
And it's the Glazers fault ?
We are not in this mess because of the Glazers - we are in this mess because we have signed or had on loan, the following players
Pogba, Lukaku, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Herrera, Rojo, Darmian, Fred, Matic, Bailly, Lindelöf, Fellaini, Mata, Memphis, Dalot, Blind, DiMaria, Falcao, Zlatan, Shaw, Romero, Valdes, Sanchez, Mkhitaryan and Martial.
We have spent what- £600-700m (I didn't bother to calculate it) to end up with:
One keeper who is a very good back-up - Romero
One superstar who wants to leave - Pogba
One striker who doens't fit into our system - Lukaku
One reckless defender we don't want - Rojo
One defender whom we never wanted - Darmian
One midfielder who was a disaster last season - Fred
One midfielder who had one good season - Matic
One defender who is a 4th choice at best - Bailly
One defender who finally starts to look solid - Lindelöf
One midfielder who has been solid and nothing more - Mata
One defender who is good but not good enouth yet - Dalot
One defender who took 5 years to really establish himself - Shaw
One attacker who is horribly inconsistent - Martial
One attacker who is the biggest flop in P.L history - Sanchez
And £600m-£700m over the last 6 or so years is probably about the equivalent to spending over £1 billion in todays market. Imagine spending £1 billion and get so little in return.
I think we have signed 25 established players since Ferguson retired (might even have forgotten someone) :
11 of them have already left the club
4 of them we want to get rid of (Rojo, Darmian, Sanchez, Lukaku)
2 of them are mostly kept to add some experience (Mata and Matic)
1 will never be more than a backup (Romero)
2 have shown absolutely nothing to indicate they will ever be regulars (Bailly, Fred)
So of all the players we have signed - we are left with Dalot, Shaw, Martial, Pogba (who wants to leave) and Lindelöf.
And it's the Glazers fault ?
We are in this mess precisely because of the Glazers. They didn't invest in the squad. SAF retired, it all went down south and they decided to pour money recklessly. Now they are reluctant to go on another massive spending spree because of all the waste.
If they had hired an experienced DOF perhaps those funds would have been used wisely. It's clear the Glazers and Woodward want to maintain control over the transfers instead of giving up the autonomy to someone who can run the football side better. If they were serious about fixing things, a DOF would have been appointed before the summer started. The club is mismanaged and the fault lies directly with the owners.
We haven't had a proper rb since Neville (Rafael for like 2 days as well). We also haven't had an actual right winger in years. Our only cams are slow Mata and Lingardinho. Our midfield is nearly empty with Herrerra gone and grandpa Matic sleeping on the field. We have one starting calibre cb. Our left back is quality but super injury prone. What we do have, is a ton of left wingers and a single world class midfielder. (+ our savior De Gea)
How am I supposed to sit here and swallow the fact that United have spent 700m, yet started the summer with set starters for only 6 out of 11 positions (gk, 1cb, lb, lm, lw, str).
How am I supposed to sit here and swallow the fact that United have spent 700m, yet started the summer with set starters for only 6 out of 11 positions (gk, 1cb, lb, lm, lw, str).
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Sorry - but that simply is not true. We are in this mess because we have constantly been signing wrong players over the last 6 years.
We are not in this mess because of the Glazers - we are in this mess because we have signed or had on loan, the following players
Pogba, Lukaku, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Herrera, Rojo, Darmian, Fred, Matic, Bailly, Lindelöf, Fellaini, Mata, Memphis, Dalot, Blind, DiMaria, Falcao, Zlatan, Shaw, Romero, Valdes, Sanchez, Mkhitaryan and Martial.
We have spent what- £600-700m (I didn't bother to calculate it) to end up with:
One keeper who is a very good back-up - Romero
One superstar who wants to leave - Pogba (He was sold a vision in 2016, why did the Glazers not invest in the squad last Summer to help the club push from 2nd to 1st?)
One striker who doens't fit into our system - Lukaku (Jose wanted Morata and also wanted Perisic- why did Woodward haggle for the sake of £5m and refuse to throw in Darmian because he thought he could get more money for him?)
One reckless defender we don't want - Rojo (Who Woodward gave a new contract)
One defender whom we never wanted - Darmian (Yet he's still here despite Inter wanting him in 2017 and Woodward deciding not to throw him into the deal because he thought he could sell him)
One midfielder who was a disaster last season - Fred (If Jose was allowed to buy a CB, maybe he would have performed better)
One midfielder who had one good season - Matic (And yet Herrera was allowed to leave on a free because Ed decided to penny pinch on behalf of his overlords)
One defender who is a 4th choice at best - Bailly (Signed behind Jose's back)
One defender who finally starts to look solid - Lindelöf
One midfielder who has been solid and nothing more - Mata (Who the Glazers rewarded with a 2 year contract to avoid actual investment)
One defender who is good but not good enouth yet - Dalot (Why did Ole not let him see out the season ahead of Ashley Young?)
One defender who took 5 years to really establish himself - Shaw
One attacker who is horribly inconsistent - Martial
One attacker who is the biggest flop in P.L history - Sanchez (You'll probably blame Jose but not Woodward and the Glazers who refused to buy Perisic)
And £600m-£700m over the last 6 or so years is probably about the equivalent to spending over £1 billion in todays market. Imagine spending £1 billion and get so little in return.
I think we have signed 25 established players since Ferguson retired (might even have forgotten someone) :
11 of them have already left the club
4 of them we want to get rid of (Rojo, Darmian, Sanchez, Lukaku)
2 of them are mostly kept to add some experience (Mata and Matic)
1 will never be more than a backup (Romero)
2 have shown absolutely nothing to indicate they will ever be regulars (Bailly, Fred)
So of all the players we have signed - we are left with Dalot, Shaw, Martial, Pogba (who wants to leave) and Lindelöf.
And it's the Glazers fault ?
Yes it is. They refused to replenish the squad in 2009 and pocketed the Ronaldo money. With that revenue, added to the £25m which was allegedly earmarked for Tevez, we could have signed Benzema, Robben, Sneijder and Yaya Toure along with Valencia). Why did we go more than 6 years without signing a CM? Why were Rio and Vidic not replaced?
That is not true at all. It was Jose who wanted Bailly.
Jose wanted Ibra, Bailly and Pogba as the spine of the team when he arrived. Bailly had done well with Sevilla at the Europa League and that's why Jose earmarked him as his CB. It didn't quite work out, as did all of Jose's signing under him. Where did you get the idea that he was signed behind his back? I bet you Ed did not even know who Bailly was.
Regarding Rojo - Woodward and Jose are equally to blame because Jose clearly fancied Rojo (maybe because of his physicality and recklessness which fit Jose's style?). He very often used to start him when he wasn't injured.
The main problem you have is not a lack of investment, its the crazy scatter gun approach to transfers with no long term plan as to where the players actually fit in the team.
Last summer you signed a talented young right back for 20 million. This summer you've signed a talented young right back for 50 million.
In January 18 you signed Sanchez on a huge deal financially, despite having Martial and Rashford that can play in his position!
The other major problem you are having is that if you keep trying to sign players from English clubs you will have to pay way over the odds for them due to the amount of money English clubs now make. I'm sure you could get players equal to, or better than Wan Bissaka, Maguire and Longstaff if you went abroad?
Last summer you signed a talented young right back for 20 million. This summer you've signed a talented young right back for 50 million.
In January 18 you signed Sanchez on a huge deal financially, despite having Martial and Rashford that can play in his position!
The other major problem you are having is that if you keep trying to sign players from English clubs you will have to pay way over the odds for them due to the amount of money English clubs now make. I'm sure you could get players equal to, or better than Wan Bissaka, Maguire and Longstaff if you went abroad?
Out of curiosity can anyone confirm if we have signed any players whilst the club has been on tour?
Heard we have never done so which might explain the lack of business.
Heard we have never done so which might explain the lack of business.
I am pretty sure we signed Carrick while we were on tour. It’s also a pretty ridiculous excuse to not sign any players in 2019 with all the technology and how easy it is to communicate. Everything is done digitally anyway.
What about Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger.
But surely they'd want to integrate a player into the squad during pre-season, your not really giving him much time to settle if you are waiting until the tour finishes.
The tour finishes on Thursday when we play spurs.
Pointless bringing a new player to the other side of the world if we signed them now.
Why are there absolutely no rumours of player sales being prepared (apart from the Lukaku one)? We have so much deadwood to get rid of and to also fund transfers - are they at least trying to find buyers for Darmian, Marcos Rojo, Bailly, Jones, Joel Pereira, Alexis?
I think the reason we can't get rid of the deadwood is that we pay players such high wages that other teams won't pay the same. Many players would probably not take a wage cut unless they were desperate for first team football elsewhere. Regarding the part in bold, I haven't got a clue to whether we are actually trying to sell them. I thought Darmian would definitely be gone this summer but I think he will be leaving next summer when his contract expires, Rojo and Jones should definitely be gone in my opinion as they both have terrible injury records mate.
We are not in this mess because of the Glazers - we are in this mess because we have signed or had on loan, the following players
Pogba, Lukaku, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Herrera, Rojo, Darmian, Fred, Matic, Bailly, Lindelöf, Fellaini, Mata, Memphis, Dalot, Blind, DiMaria, Falcao, Zlatan, Shaw, Romero, Valdes, Sanchez, Mkhitaryan and Martial.
We have spent what- £600-700m (I didn't bother to calculate it) to end up with:
One keeper who is a very good back-up - Romero
One superstar who wants to leave - Pogba
One striker who doens't fit into our system - Lukaku
One reckless defender we don't want - Rojo
One defender whom we never wanted - Darmian
One midfielder who was a disaster last season - Fred
One midfielder who had one good season - Matic
One defender who is a 4th choice at best - Bailly
One defender who finally starts to look solid - Lindelöf
One midfielder who has been solid and nothing more - Mata
One defender who is good but not good enouth yet - Dalot
One defender who took 5 years to really establish himself - Shaw
One attacker who is horribly inconsistent - Martial
One attacker who is the biggest flop in P.L history - Sanchez
And £600m-£700m over the last 6 or so years is probably about the equivalent to spending over £1 billion in todays market. Imagine spending £1 billion and get so little in return.
I think we have signed 25 established players since Ferguson retired (might even have forgotten someone) :
11 of them have already left the club
4 of them we want to get rid of (Rojo, Darmian, Sanchez, Lukaku)
2 of them are mostly kept to add some experience (Mata and Matic)
1 will never be more than a backup (Romero)
2 have shown absolutely nothing to indicate they will ever be regulars (Bailly, Fred)
So of all the players we have signed - we are left with Dalot, Shaw, Martial, Pogba (who wants to leave) and Lindelöf.
And it's the Glazers fault ?
What if the three time champions league final team the Glazers inherited was properly maintained. It is easier to remedy problems in a team if it's a position or two, the Glazers caused a situation that required a complete team overhaul. We had one of the oldest teams in the PL by the end of Moyes time as manager. They opened their wallets too late, making a difficult job almost impossible. We didn't even have a functional spine left at the club by the time LVG took over.
8 years with a net spend of 19M / season, for a team of our ambition is almost criminal, of course it would end badly. No wonder SAF kept on such an ageing squad, he didn't have the funds to replace them with players that held the same standards. He kept trying to find the next gem, because buying a established quality player was made impossible with that budget.
The worst part of it, even though we needed a complete rebuild by the time Moyes left the Glazers (Woodward) still expected results, resulting in a change of manager every 2 years, each manager with completely different styles of play and visions for the club. One wanted possession, the other an organized defensive unit and the third pace. They put us in this mess, 6 years of suddenly "caring", wont change that.
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How do you explain a net spend of £19 M ?
2018/19 - we bought players for about £70m - we sold players for around £30m
2017/18 - we signed Lukaku, Lindelöf and Matic (+ the trade with Sanchez/Mkhitaryan) - and spent £130-140m or so for those 3. We sold a few players for maybe £10m
2016/17 - Bailly, Mkhitaryan and Pogba for - £150-160m ? We sold Schneiderlin/Depay and some others for £40-50m
2015/16 - Martial, Schneiderlin, Depay, Schweinsteiger and Darmian set us back £140m - we sold di Maria and a few others for £90m
2014/15 - Di Maria, Shaw, Herrera, Rojo and Blind in for £160m - we sold Welbeck, Kagawa etc for £50m
2013/14 - Fellaini and Mata in for £65m - peanuts in from sales.
We have signed players for £700m - and I might have forgotten someone, but we have not sold players for over £300m - maybe as low as £250m. So in reality we have a net spend pr season that is probably between £50-55m
Ok - I take it you meant during the Ferguson-era. I stand corrected
Yeah I meant from when they took over until the end of Moyes season, I agree with you that they have spent more than enough after we dropped from grace, my opinion is that their lack of funding when we dominated the PL is a big cause to our current situation.
I am convinced that SAF would have refreshed the squad with similar younger quality players if he had funds to do so and as a result our rebuild would have not been as extensive as it eventually came to be.
LVG ended up with the task of a complete overhaul, it's a tough job with no guarantees. As the results have proven.
For the money we got for Ronaldo, we could have bought Robben, Sneijder and Yaya Toure with enough left for Smalling
Right.. a bit under 3 weeks left... 2 more signings.. Come on Woody.
Will admit things have picked up again today a bit,however did look to me like we were spending the Lukaku money on Maguire.
Maybe we have got more money to spend than I thought and I have possibly jumped the gun,we will see in the next week or so what the situation is.