People still thinking sacking Mourinho was a mistake 
So Jose Was Right?
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I can't believe that to this day we're still seeing "Jose was right" arguments. We were in a tailspin heading into the volcano when we sacked him. Correct if I'm wrong, but it was Jose who brought us Sanchez, Pogba and Lukaku -- all head cases in one way or another. Lindelof and Bailly too but I'm not as sure about that. And I'm pretty sure that Jose desperately wanted Maguire, which turned out to be a colossal mistake by the club.
The hiring of Jose's successor -- a man who had nowhere the experience managing at a high level that even Moyes had -- turned out to be a disaster but that's a different point. But the idea that Jose was right needs to be deep-sixed once and for all.
The hiring of Jose's successor -- a man who had nowhere the experience managing at a high level that even Moyes had -- turned out to be a disaster but that's a different point. But the idea that Jose was right needs to be deep-sixed once and for all.
Jose amassed an amazing 26 points out of his last 17 matches. He was a turd of a manager and his mistakes are still at the club.
No it wasn't.
We didn't like him being mean at Pogba. How'd choosing Pogba work out?
We didn't like him being mean at Luke Shaw. How'd choosing Shaw work out?
We didn't like him being mean at Martial. How'd choosing Martial work out?
We're still waiting for the defensive line that Mourinho wanted.
But, hey, Utd fans thought it was a new day of player power and supporting the manager wasn't the thing anymore.
Our players agree.
If only Jose had been allowed to dump just one of those prima donnas...
Our players being a bunch of charlatans doesn’t make Jose right.
Look at where Spurs are now, this has all stemmed from Mourinho's sacking.
Mourinho was pissed off for not getting Maguire. Mourinho bought Pogba. And yeah we were being played off the park when he was sacked.
Why are people still fighting this fight? feck Mourinho and anybody that loves him
This.
People keep forgetting this for some reason. "Ooh we should've backed him..." He also wanted Willian, didn't he? On top of gems like Lukaku and Alexis, the latter who destroyed our wage structure
Mourinho spent more money than any other manager post SAF. "Not backed"
Teams all over the world sack their managers after they've lost the dressing room because of their own failings.
Sacking Mourinho was absolutely the right decision. I can't believe people are even debating that. The issue is that we then replaced him with Ole, which was fine in the short-term but should never have been given the fulltime job.
Just one thing to look at is that Perisic was deemed too old at 28 to be signed when Jose wanted him. Well, we could have had 4 good years out of him instead of the dross that Rashford and Martial have become.
Even planning for short-term success looks a million miles away right now.
Even planning for short-term success looks a million miles away right now.
Yes, and Perisic is probably the only player that we know he wanted that would have gone on to be a good signing. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Alternatively, with proper coaching (something that both he and Ole quite blatantly failed at) perhaps the likes of Rashford and Martial might have become much better than they have.
Mourinho signed:
Lukaku
Sanchez
Mkhitaryan
Bailly
Lindelof
Dalot
Pogba
Fred
Promoted McTominay because he was tall, used Fellaini as a target man. Zlatan was fun for a season, and Matic was an alright short term signing. The rest of his transfer activity was atrocious.
Mourinho can feck off.
Lukaku
Sanchez
Mkhitaryan
Bailly
Lindelof
Dalot
Pogba
Fred
Promoted McTominay because he was tall, used Fellaini as a target man. Zlatan was fun for a season, and Matic was an alright short term signing. The rest of his transfer activity was atrocious.
Mourinho can feck off.
Again, NO. He is partially responsible for where we are. Bought 2 center backs that are not good enough, 2 full backs, a DM on his last legs, dinosaur forward, Pogba... The recruitment was very much against progressive football and for huge money. It was a massive mistake giving the job to Mourinho at the point where we needed a rebuild.
Why are people listing Pogba as a poor choice of transfer now ? At that time it was a great business. You invested in a 24 years old midfielder with ton of talent, the hottest prospect in world football back them whom everyone wanted. You weren't just buying a player, you were investing in a long term project. Pogba was supposed to be an icon for the new Man United team : young, talented and well known.
The mistake wasn't cashing on him when it became clear he wasn't going to be any of these. Signing him was the right choice, selling him later on would have also been the right choice.
Looking back at this, most of these were good prospects at the time of signing them, probably bar Sanchez, Lindelof and Fred.
Lukaku was the best option available in that summer for a striker option. Yes he flopped later on, but back then our options were Morata and Belotti, with their career trajectory it's clear who was the best option and who is even still relevant up till now. Anyway, back then the plan was for Zlatan to stay for one year and for us to sign Griezmann to play alongside him. Zlatan's injury forced us to shift targets to sign number 9. Lukaku was the best option back then, as mentioned.
Beside, Lukaku wasn't really a bad business, we squeezed a good season from him in which he scored 28 goals, then when he flopped next season we cashed on him quickly for a large sum of money, barely losing anything on him. That's a great business from the club. That what should have been the case with Pogba. As said with Pogba, it was the right choice to buy him at time but selling him was also the right option. It applies for Lukaku.
Bailly was very good prospect back then, young, talented center back with a lot of aggression and years ahead of him to develop. His start with United was fantastic. He turned injury prone later, it happened. However, the club only paid 30m for him which is the right sum for such profile of player. Nothing major lost here. It was worth the trial.
Mikhi came on the back of a great season with BVB and helped us win the EL, and when we wanted to shift him, we replaced him with Sanchez. He wasn't hard to get replaced.
All of these look bad in hindsight but neither of them were wrong choices back then and the catch is most of them have a great re-sale value. Lukaku was signed for a large sum indeed, but when we wanted to sell him shortly after we had no issues getting a buyer who also paid large sum on money. Players with that aspect are worth it.
Now compare that the car crash of a signing Maguire is for example. Good luck finding anyone who will be willing to pay anywhere close to 80m we splashed on him. We fecked ourselves up with a player with zero re-sale value. That's what I call a shit business. It also applies to Martinez. Paying 57m for a center back with such basic flaws it's ridiculous. When we want to get rid of him if he ever flops, we'll 100% lose a lot of money.
Finally, Fellaini had a better career at United than a lot of our current lot, and gave the team far more than many of these clowns playing for us now.
I listed Pogba at the bottom of the shit list for some of the reasons you mentioned, he was an obviously talented player. But his attitude was shite, and he was never going to be successful unless he was played in a specific role. Jose bought him and didn't know how to get the best out of him. And his attitude has been a symbol of the type of personalities we have in our dressing room.
The rest of the signings were just bad. You can look at simple stuff like what they did at their last team, or how rated they are, anyone can do the with a 5 minute Google search. Managers need to look in depth at what they offer, how they will fit in the dressing room, what they bring to the team. All of the signings were bad.
Comparing to current or more recent transfers is silly. Jose was in charge when we were still the Man United. We could get big names, players wanted to join us.
Yeah, to me it was also a bad decision for pretty much everything you're stating. As toxic as he was it shifts the power in favor of the players, it sends the wrong message or at least that's my stance overall when it comes to how clubs should handle overpaid players who lack discipline and professionalism.
He probably needed to go but also most of the players he was calling out.
Mourinho could shoot someone on Sir Matt Busby Way and he still wouldn't lose any of his fans.
Right about the rot at the club and certain players yeah. Takes a small person to refuse to accept that but plenty of those on here.
Should’ve hired Jose as DoF. Everything he said was bang on but the money men didn’t like it.
AS Roma are better than Man United on paper this season. Make of that what you will. Getting rid of Mourinho sorted none of our issues.
All these are said in hindsight though. That's the problem of your argument. Pogba's attitude wasn't a question at Juve, and the idea that he can only be successful in specific role only emerged when he played for us. Neither of these were points of concern when he was playing at Juventus. No, he was the hottest thing in the market back then. Every big club was eyeing him. An integral part of a great Juve side who dominated Serie A and reached CL final, got into World XI, a main part of France national team. Talent, physicality, and on top of it still not even at the top of his game. Only at 24 years old, he had a lot of years in front of him to develop even more and acquire new skills and refined what we had. I'm sorry, but back then this signing was a huge deal by United and a proof we could sign the best of the best even while coming off few bad years and no CL to play. The fact that he didn't develop as expected or didn't turn out to be like that doesn't change anything from the fact at time of signing it was United investing in a huge, long term project that was worth the money back then.
Otherwise, you're not providing any evidence on why any of these signings were bad at the time of signing them. I would take signing Lukaku ahead of signing Morata or Belotti, and surely ahead of entering the season depending on youngsters like Martial and Rashford to get us the goals. Lukaku did decent job at that in his first season then we sold him to Inter for a huge sum of money. For the love of God, I'm still waiting on any proof from anyone here how Lukaku can be considered a bad business from Man United. Was the best option available back then, scored a lot of goals in his first season, sold quickly for a big sum of money. Guy had a pretty good re-sale value and club didn't lose any money from that deal. If anything that's just classifies as great business from United. We got the best possible thing we could have got back then.
Excuse me, big names still wanted to join Man United post Mourinho. Ole signed Bruno, Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho, who was also a huge talent with a long road ahead of him like Pogba when we signed him, and like Pogba, United looked like they were investing in a huge project in signing Sancho. It's fair to compare recent signings to the ones before. I don't see the issue.
Any signing can flop or turn out bad. Doesn't mean that signing them was always the bad decision at that moment. And if you're signing some young talented prospects like Bailly, Dalot or, hell, even Daniel James, there's always a chance of them not achieving their potential. As long as you can cash on a player if flopped and replace him, it's not a big deal. Pep has signed a lot of flops at City, cashed and replaced them.
The problem isn't being able to actually cash on these players when they ultimately flop, like Maguire currently.
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There's two things about Jose. First off, he was absolutely right in terms of what should have been done and the club should have fully backed him instead of the players. Big mistake right there. But since the club didn't back him and had no intention of doing so, it was right to sack him because by that time Mourinho had already given up and waiting to be sacked. There could be no half measures. Unfortunatley the club decided to go with the players and that's how we found ourselves in this mess. Fergie always said that the manager is the most important position in the club and if the players don't think that, they smell blood and stop giving a feck. This is also why he binned almost every player that got "too big" for the club.
Problem is that we have no managerial authority at this moment and the players think they can do whatever they like. That needs to be fixed immediately, but it's gonna take time and the backing of the onwers. First part, I'm sure ETH can do it, but whether he'll have the backing of the clowns in charge of the club? Now that I seriously doubt.
Problem is that we have no managerial authority at this moment and the players think they can do whatever they like. That needs to be fixed immediately, but it's gonna take time and the backing of the onwers. First part, I'm sure ETH can do it, but whether he'll have the backing of the clowns in charge of the club? Now that I seriously doubt.
When the club didn't want to back him up they should just got rid of him instead of wasting most of the season with him trying to get sacked. So there's also a problem of not being decisive enough specially when it comes of getting rid of underperforming players and cutting their losses.
Ideally that's what should have been done and I've said it before, but we're run by a set of spectacularly incompetent morons.
Lil Wayne would be proud
Well obviously you judge a manager, and transfers, on results, so it's strange to describe doing so as 'the benefit of hindsight'. There is no good or bad transfer at the time it's made, you judge it on whether it was a success or not. You make a prediction at the time, you make a judgment after the fact. Great managers get something like 75% of transfers right, good managers 50%, Jose was rocking an average of about 20% if we're being generous, and the more successful ones were the cheaper ones/older players.
Lukaka was an awful signing. He was too bulky, his touch was awful, his passing awful, his finishing not great, his goal record against good sides was awful, and worst of all Jose didn't even play to his strengths as he wanted to turn him into a target man which wasn't his game despite his size. Just another example of Jose's lack of coherent strategy. Also Lukaku was a dick, which he has proved with his quotes about both United and Chelsea.
Jose was obviously better positioned than we have been since to buy better players. We've signed some big names, but all big names with a massive caveat next to their name. Nobody else wanted them. Our rivals were signing players in their early 20s who would go onto the next level and bring success to their clubs, whilst Jose was squabbling with the board about wanting to bring in 30+ Perisic, Willian and Mandzukic. The younger players that he did sign were all bad, and we're still lumbered with most of them. How any manager renowned for building defensively solid teams thought Bailly and Lindelof were suitable I still can't fathom, and then at the start of his third season he had a hissy because the board didn't want to spend big on a CB yet again (Smalling was still 1st choice, and Jose had basically given up on Lindelof and Bailly, opting to play Matic and McTominay in a back three so he could moan about it). Also at that time he turned down the likes of Ruben Dias and Fabinho because he preferred someone more experienced. He also signed Fred somehow, for about £50m. I actually don't mind Fred and think he has some use in a specific and limited role, but £50m!
Yeah feck Mourinho for winning us a European cup and domestic trophy.
People tend to forget all the bad and just remember the little things that would be proven right now.People still thinking sacking Mourinho was a mistake
Similar to how some think Blind was class and selling Smalling was a bad move. We should have kept Memphis.
The most underwhelming european cup trophy we’ve won against some mighty minnows along the way.
That's a very fancy way of saying the Europa League and League Cup.
Well he said so, kind of makes him right. But getting rid of him was a correct decision. Getting Ole in full-time was a terrible idea.
Mourinho has a weird hold over people.
He's gone, let it go.
He's gone, let it go.
Getting rid of Jose at that time was the only decision the club could make. Getting rid of Pogba was the other decision the club should have made before that. Jose was toxic but he won two trophies the club has last won. That doesn't negate the fact that he had to go when things went bad. The question is why did it get bad? Was it all on Jose or on the club?
Not really, you can't control the results of the transfers a lot of time. You can sign a top player and ends up flopping for various reasons. You can't simply say it was the wrong decision to sign such player. If time had went back 100 times to 2016 summer, I would have signed Pogba every single time. It was the right choice back then and the club did well to land one of the best midfielders in the world. What happened after that was unfortunate, but it was the right deal at that time, and Pogba was doing well at United until his 3rd season here from what I remember.
That ratio you're talking about is fine until you realize that the majority of signings made post Ferguson at United ended up flopping anyway, LVG and Ole signings have also mostly failed and those done under Ten Hag doesn't look that good either. Screams more of a problem with the club rather than the managers, or probably even the players themselves. Mourinho had a pretty damn good track record at transfers before United, meanwhile. If we look at Pep's transfers at City, a lot of them have been rubbish. In his first window he signed Gundogan, Nolito, Sane, Bravo, Zinchenko and Stones. How many of these ended up succeeding ? You tell me. It's not a big deal. They cashed on the trash and replaced them with good players and life continues. It's only a problem at United thanks to our awful structure.
Lukaku wasn't bulky at Everton when we signed him, again, that's just hindsight :
As you can see his body was pretty lean and his finishing was considered his strongest aspect back then, and again, our other options in the market back then were Morata and Belotti, who have been awful since then. Lukaku was a proven goal scoring machine in PL for a midtable club, his last 2 seasons at Everton had him banging 18 and 25 goals in the league, and was still only 24 years old, similar to Pogba, he had a lot of room and long years ahead of him to improve and develop, it's a no brainer signing for me. Still, Lukaku had a good season in which he scored 28 goals and helped us finish top 4 in the league and reach a cup final. He has done more than a lot of our current dross, including for example the 90m Jadon Sancho. We have made far worse transfers. There was nothing disastrous about the Lukaku business.
Weird to still talk about Perisic as a potential bad transfer just due to his age when he has done far more in his career since this summer than what Man United achieved, he played for Bayern and Inter and won league titles and CLs. If anything, he's probably the one happy this signing didn't go on and he didn't join our shitshow. Sacking Mourinho didn't really solve the issue of running behind +30 years old stop gaps so feels weird to keep pointing that out. Alright, we didn't sign Perisic or Willian, but Ole has brought us two +35 years old strikers to be the main forward line, not to mention the 28 years injury prone Varane. How many youngsters did United sign to play for the first team post Mourinho ? How many young players did we see a breakthrough for them post Mourinho ? Only Greenwood. It's not like he was hindering the club's strategy or something, so this point always felt odd to me.
Anyway, no one is saying Mourinho didn't make mistakes in the market or that some of his choices weren't poor. I just don't see the issue in signing players like Pogba or Lukaku, or betting on players like Bailly, Dalot or Lindelof. Neither of these were really bad decisions and I have no regrets about the clubs signing them. Considering signing someone like Pogba back then as a wrong decision is honestly ridiculous to me.