These underwhelming trophies we can't even win anymore. Hilarious to see people still mocking these cups after 5 years of being trophyless and shit.
So Jose Was Right?
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These underwhelming trophies we can't even win anymore. Hilarious to see people still mocking these cups after 5 years of being trophyless and shit.
How can you mock any trophy given the state on us
Jesus fecking christ man let it go. His signings were shit, no bloody essays is going to change that fact. His signings were also shit at Spurs, too. I always admired his as a manager and was envious of Chelsea when they hired him (both times), but he was a spent force by the time he was with us. And his signings were bad! Not a couple bad signings, not 50:50, but the vast majority!
Pretty much the reply you expect from someone when he ends up not having a response to an argument. That's the state of RedCafe at the moment. Try to have a proper discussion with someone on this forum and after some posts it ends like this.
Enjoy your evening.
We were the biggest spending club in the world during Mourinho's tenure. Never got close to a league title or a CL title, but hey, he won a Europa League, beating out the likes of Feyenoord, Zorya, St. Etienne, Rostov, Anderlecht, and Celta Vigo, so it's all good.
Ffs, these people
Ffs, these people
He was right about some of the players but he was part of the problem as well.
People need to understand that pointing at our players and saying "They're shite" isn't going to make them better even if it does feel good.
People need to understand that pointing at our players and saying "They're shite" isn't going to make them better even if it does feel good.
Pretty much the reply you expect from someone when he ends up not having a response to an argument. That's the state of RedCafe at the moment. Try to have a proper discussion with someone on this forum and after some posts it ends like this.
Enjoy your evening.
I'm eating my dinner, and I saw your bloody monologue and thought what the actual feck
Best save each other plenty of time. I will have detailed convos on pretty much anything, but this one isn't very interesting.
P.s. His signings were bad, man. Really, really bad.
Winning trophies is great, and yes jose won us the Europa league. But to use that as justification that we should have kept him as manager is weak.
We were absolutely right to sack Jose. The club was as toxic as I’ve ever seen it. Players had downed tools and the manager has lost virtually every player in the dressing room. He was picking fights with players and the media. It was one of the best decisions we made under the glazers to sack him ironically.
But to keep getting funny warm feelings in our tummy for Jose everytime we’re in the shit is just silly.
If we are just going to use trophies to justify arguments then we should hire Ranieri as he’s proven he can win the premier league title. Has as many as klopp.
We were absolutely right to sack Jose. The club was as toxic as I’ve ever seen it. Players had downed tools and the manager has lost virtually every player in the dressing room. He was picking fights with players and the media. It was one of the best decisions we made under the glazers to sack him ironically.
But to keep getting funny warm feelings in our tummy for Jose everytime we’re in the shit is just silly.
If we are just going to use trophies to justify arguments then we should hire Ranieri as he’s proven he can win the premier league title. Has as many as klopp.
Underwhelming
FA Cup > League Cup and Van Gaal got sacked as soon as he won the FA Cup, which shows how the club value domestic trophies. Nice to win the Europa League for the first time but the primary reason for that at the time was to make up for finishing 6th in the league, if he lost that match he probably would have been gone.
We finished number 2 in the league under Jose, of course it was a mistake to let him go. It was a mistake to let go every manager apart from Moyes.
If we win League Cup this season it'll actually look like a huge achievement for the current Man United team.
I would actually kill to win it after 5 years of being tropyless. I'm not joking, that's how shit we have come since then.
So yeah, really weird to mock these kind of trophies at our current state.
Jose being right about a few things doesn't mean he also wasn't a problem.
It's not all mutual.
It's not all mutual.
If we win League Cup this season it'll actually look like a huge achievement for the current Man United team.
I would actually kill to win it after 5 years of being tropyless. I'm not joking, that's how shit we have come since then.
So yeah, really weird to mock these kind of trophies at our current state.
Not really mocking, just the reality that Van Gaal was sacked after winning the FA Cup because he didn't make top 4. If Ten Hag wins the League Cup, it's better than nothing, but if he finishes 8th in the league with it, then his job will be at serious risk.
I bet you Murtough will consider the season a huge success in that case.
As toxic as he was, we'd probably be in a better situation now if we'd kept him. Probably would've won a few more "minor and insignificant" trophies in the last 5 years as well.
Was Jose right? Yes
Was Jose the right man to fix it? No
Was Jose the right man to fix it? No
feck him and two trophies that he won with us. Our last two trophies.....
Trophies are just for ego
Being appreciative of trophies and still saying fecking Mourinho aren’t mutually exclusive.
That said, feck Mourinho and anybody that loves him
Agree. It still amazes me that people can't separate the two, in a similar way to Ralf's performance as a manager here (very very bad) and his overall advisory comments (very sensible and rational).
Jose is the best of a bad bunch we've had since SAF and he said somethings about certain players which really do look true. He was also a toxic a-hole who wasn't right for this club. Conte would have been exactly the same had he got the job last year- in fact he would have gone ballistic and probably murdered someone working with this board and these players.
We go through this cycle a couple of times every season.
We wouldn’t, we really wouldn’t. How was he ever going to fix it when the players didn’t want to play for him anymore? He was fighting with half the squad and having meltdowns in the media. It’s not like he could swap 15 players all at once to start again.
He had to go. It was absolutely the right decision at the time. Just because we’ve been a failure since, it doesn’t make that decision wrong.
A right decision can be followed by multiple wrong decisions. It doesn’t make the original decision wrong as well.
A sensible post. Yes he was right about the players and he was also a problem. I wish that we had got Conti who would have gone ballistic and got rid of this joker Murtough.
He A) Built most of the team he was complaining about, to get the heat off himself and B) Was a bigger problem than the players himself. We only came 2nd because our rivals were doing almost as bad as we are now. And in fact, that season we were quite hard to beat and then that next summer he laid into all the players and undermined all their confidence. None of our players have defended as well as they did back then. So to this day we're still feeling the effects of his toxic management
And 3 managers later, not one thing has changed.
I wouldn’t say the club is as toxic within the dressing as it was under Jose. ETH certainly hasn’t lost every player in the dressing room. The players haven’t downed tools. They are playing for the manager. It’s just half of them aren’t very good.
You say nothing has changed since Jose. Even if we agree on that, it still doesn’t make it a wrong decision to sack Jose. It just means we made more wrong decisions after.
He was right about the character and ability of some of the players, but he was also part of the problem and didn't deserve to be backed.
That's being a little disingenuous. Right now things are as bad or worse, but things move fast in football. There have been periods post Jose (and even with Jose) when the feel-good factor was back and we were playing good football and scaring other teams. If we get De Jong and results improve, it will swing again. But the fact that it keeps swinging back does indicate (as I'm sure you were implying), that there are fundamental cultural problems at the club, which will always see us swing back towards the negative.
We aren't getting De Jong
Mourinho cultists can do one
It's pretty simple.
- Jose was right about a lot of things I thought he was wrong about for example Martials intensity or Shaws effort (although he went way overboard with him).
- Jose simply wasn't good enough at United in the players he brought in or the manner in which he coached the team. Even if he didn't fancy Martial for example his pick to replace him... was Sanchez, possibly our worst ever signing. His other signings are just poor- Bailly, Dalot, Fred who only played decently under other managers, Lindelof etc
Sums it up well.
It’s hard to believe Mourinho was our manager at all. He was right about some players being shitty, but he was also wrong in thinking a lot of shitty players were good. He was also a shitty personality. Shit!
Not this shit again.
I can't be arsed reading the whole thread, but but I think we can see that his assessment on current and past United players are correct, especially on Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Luke Shaw for example.
His flaw was always that he knows what's wrong but he doesn't know how to fix it. That's why he's the wrong manager for us. Because we don't just need someone who can identified the flaws, but also to rectify them.
I don't want him back and think it's correct decision to sack him. But man, he was absolutely correct about the state of these players
Toxic, unprofessional culture both among players, staff and the higher ups.
Pretty much all our managers after SAF have said it, but somehow the blame and consequences have fallen on them
Pretty much all our managers after SAF have said it, but somehow the blame and consequences have fallen on them
The question is no longer about the management, but the players themselves. Its all because we don't have a football person at the head of our mad footballing division at the club who didn't sign a CB or CDM as OGS asked for. Yet they signed a constant crock in Varane who struggles to stay fit?.
First it was a Mourinho problem, then Ole lost control of the wheel, RR the godfather of gengen pressing failed being called outdated by the idiots in the club and fan base and now the best young manager is failing with the same set of players. ETH will be called inexperienced when he gets sacked and Sir Alex will come back to stabalise the club but will fail because of the shit players in our defence and midfield.
Clearly it is not a management issue at all, but a personnel and director problems.
First it was a Mourinho problem, then Ole lost control of the wheel, RR the godfather of gengen pressing failed being called outdated by the idiots in the club and fan base and now the best young manager is failing with the same set of players. ETH will be called inexperienced when he gets sacked and Sir Alex will come back to stabalise the club but will fail because of the shit players in our defence and midfield.
Clearly it is not a management issue at all, but a personnel and director problems.
As manager?
That’s less likely than Mason Greenwood being reinstated and hired as the manager.I do agree with your point though. These players are absolutely spineless, next to the owners.
is there a need for DOF ? we can do away with it
Mourinho maybe was the right man at the wrong time. If he had followed Fergie, then I think he could have won us a title and certainly top 4 finishes. I also think when he did come he knew it wasnt going to last. He lived out of an hotel for the length of his tenure.