So Jose Was Right?

JPRouve said:
Partially. The club was also at fault for bringing a manager that didn't fit with the team and in this case also a manager that was on the decline. It wouldn't be fair to blame him entirely when the club consistently failed to judge managers and also players.
My only issue is when people make any sort of excuses for Mourinho when it barely fit with reality. Mourinho has been backed by the club, they spent a fortune on players that he wanted, players that he wanted when he was at Chelsea and players that he worked with.

It's also extremely important to keep in mind that no Football club guarantee or engage himself in a deal with a manager where said manager gets literally everything he wants, whenever he wants. The deal is that the club goes as far as it's reasonable to go while the manager does everything to coach and manage the team to the best of his abilities in all circumstances. Can we say that Mourinho held his end of the bargain?
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Yes I agree with the essence of all that. I don’t want to make any excuses for Jose, really. I mean, you could infer that I am because I am saying I think the club decided to stop backing him and I’m also saying, in a roundabout way, that I blame Woodward and the board and owners for more or less everything.

I’ve said I was pretty happy when he got sacked. I’d probably go along with the view that he didn’t do a particularly good job but I think that has to be tempered with the hindsight of the qualities shown by most of the players over the last three years. And I gain no pleasure from saying it but he got reasonable results with the players he had.

His CV was pretty great but, yes, he was on the way down and Klopp was on the up, not unlike when Jose first took the Chelsea job. Klopp has more or less changed the whole squad and made good decisions in doing it; although he took over a team that just finished second and was not expected to win immediately.

I wouldn’t call any of that an excuse for Jose, even if it sounds like that, it’s just my thoughts on a few things that happened.

In the end, what I really want to do is criticise the board and the players and I wish I could do that without sounding like an apologist for Jose but it seems to be more difficult than I thought!
 
Has Jose ever admitted any responsibility for the morass that exploded under his watch?
 
Moonwalker said:
The cultus of this guy is still going strong, and he seems to be getting better at creating it completely regardless of what happens on the pitch, judging by how feverish and rabid some of the new Mourinho chauvinists are. Any thread that might have something to do with Roma is polluted by his fanatics on a regular basis.

It's hard to tell how much of this is even deliberate and premeditated on his part, in a sense that he planned for it early in his career, or if it's just something that arose spontaneously out of the chaos and misery he normally inflicts on clubs.

Regardless, him being cantankerous and obnoxious, pointing fingers at everybody but himself, blaming the owners, the media, the referees, unfetteredly, is something that really feeds into the dissatisfaction of the fanbase (of which there is always some, and negative hyperbole is the rule of life). So him 'connecting' with this aspect of fan life, creates him plausible deniability which does wonders to protect his reputation.

That he was right, in some sort of visionary sense, beyond whatever individual points he might have been right on through his self serving rants, is a fatuous contention. It requires constant butchery of facts and mental gymnastics.

The most absurd aspect of these "he was right all along" narratives involves him supposedly being a prophet about Paul Pogba, and recognising what a virus he is. This in complete denial of the fact that Mourinho was the one who signed this virus in the first place, inducing the club to spend a transfer record on the said player. This in addition to signing countless other players (some discovered by Mourinho's own network) who turned out to be complete dross. For the longest time, not signing Harry Maguire (initially) was also part of the he was always right narrative, that is before Maguire became the universally despised figure that he now is.

On the back of the club not signing this guy because they had reservations about the price and quality (that hindsight has cast a kindly light on); Mourinho justified himself in deliberately sabotaging the club by playing midfielders at centre back. How this disgraceful thing is forgotten, and how lip service continues to be paid to this narcissistic asshole, is forever beyond me.
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Damn. Perfectly put, couldn't agree more.
 
If Jose was right then Ole must be a hell of a manager for getting us in the top four every full season he managed us
 
lsd said:
If Jose was right then Ole must be a hell of a manager for getting us in the top four every full season he managed us
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Ole even matched Jose's 'best ever achievement' of finishing 2nd in the league at United in only his 2nd full season at the club...maybe Ole is also the special one too?
 
saivet said:
Ole even matched Jose's 'best ever achievement' of finishing 2nd in the league at United in only his 2nd full season at the club...maybe Ole is also the special one too?
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Clearly a better manager as his second was a lot better than Jose's
 
Every passing game and Mourinho is being proved right again and again.

Be it the 2nd place finish, trophies, or Luke bleedin' Shaw.
 
Why is this thread always bumped up ? To vindicate Jose ? Ok fine, he was right. Just move on . He was a washed up one.
 
bond19821982 said:
Why is this thread always bumped up ? To vindicate Jose ? Ok fine, he was right. Just move on . He was a washed up one.
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It's really weird. Mourinho was complete shite and left the club fecking years ago. People are obsessed with him.
 
Vernon Philander said:
Every passing game and Mourinho is being proved right again and again.

Be it the 2nd place finish, trophies, or Luke bleedin' Shaw.
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How about saying Dalot being the best young full back in Europe?

Pushing McTominay into the first team?

Having a tantrum because the club didn’t buy Maguire? After he had just bought two centre backs in Lindelof and Bailly.

Mourinho’s toxicity was part of the problem and that’s why he was sacked. Also he left the club 4 years ago and the team finished 3rd and 2nd after he left, while he did a terrible job at Tottenham and was sacked there too.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
How about saying Dalot being the best young full back in Europe?

Pushing McTominay into the first team?

Having a tantrum because the club didn’t buy Maguire? After he had just bought two centre backs in Lindelof and Bailly.

Mourinho’s toxicity was part of the problem and that’s why he was sacked. Also he left the club 4 years ago and the team finished 3rd and 2nd after he left, while he did a terrible job at Tottenham and was sacked there too.
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1. he said Dalot was one of the best rated young right backs. Not the best right back. That was true and a massively different description from what you’re suggesting.

2. Young players who don’t go on to be world beaters get introduced into teams all the time. You should be questioning more why mctominay is still starting here years later long after mourinho is gone. Was it an issue that fergie introduced cleverley? No, but it certainly would be an issue if he was still our starting midfielder today.

3 I’m really tired of seeing this one. Both lindeloff and Bailly were bought as future prospects. They each had about 1 season of top league football before joining us, and you expected them to immediately be starters for Man Utd?

Mourinho may be a moaner but he knew he wasn’t getting what is required to win and he was evidently right. Did he get some transfers wrong? Absolutely but so does every manager. The question is does the club support them to manoeuvre from that and into the right direction and our club doesn’t seem to do that with any manager.
 
Old took this squad to top 4 twice and had them believe in themselves something Jose couldn't do
 
Don’t really understand how this is even being discussed. Even citing Shaw as one of the players, when he has been excellent for long periods since Jose stopped bullying him and left.

It’s not like Rashford and Martial have been universally appalling in that time either (until more recently).These sorts of players are partially at the mercy of which coaches and systems come in with regard to how they develop and obviously the shitshow of the way the club is run hasn’t done them any favours.

Find it hard to believe that a Pep or a Klopp wouldn’t have got more out of them (or at the very least, wouldn’t have just written them off as mentally weak). Pep even wanted to go in for Pogba after the last few years of absolute shite, because a lot of the time it’s about coaching out the talent rather than publicly slagging them off.

RedCurry said:
He’s outdated as a football coach, but his reading of players’ mentality is second to none.
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Really nailed it with Salah.

Don’t know where this myth comes from that he’s really good at this. He just blames everyone at the slightest sign of adversity and bins them off. Obviously some of those players do go on to be shite. Some don’t.
 
FrantikChicken said:
Mourinho may be a moaner but he knew he wasn’t getting what is required to win and he was evidently right. Did he get some transfers wrong? Absolutely but so does every manager. The question is does the club support them to manoeuvre from that and into the right direction and our club doesn’t seem to do that with any manager.
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He probably got some of the best backing and transfers of any manager post-Ferguson. He got Bailly, Zlatan, Pogba and Mkhitaryan in his first summer, then he got Matic, Lukaku, Lindelof, Sanchez.

And yes Bailly and Lindelof cost a lot of money that would suggest they were for the present. Bailly’s best season was his first one actually, he’s only got worse since.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
He probably got some of the best backing and transfers of any manager post-Ferguson. He got Bailly, Zlatan, Pogba and Mkhitaryan in his first summer, then he got Matic, Lukaku, Lindelof, Sanchez.

And yes Bailly and Lindelof cost a lot of money that would suggest they were for the present. Bailly’s best season was his first one actually, he’s only got worse since.
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Because he’s been constantly injured. Nobody can predict that.
 
lsd said:
Old took this squad to top 4 twice and had them believe in themselves something Jose couldn't do
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So did Jose take us to the top 4 once and did he win the EL and the Cup? Something Ole could never do? Jose would always be a much better coach than Ole. He did a shit job at the end at United and rightly got the sack and so did Ole who did a shittier job.
 
Jose was partially right. You remember Pogba "the virus". Shaw - "little lazy" who needs constant instructions. And so on.
But we also remember his "parking the bus" style. His "average" signings - Bailly, Lindelof, Mkhi, Sanchez.
 
lsd said:
Old took this squad to top 4 twice and had them believe in themselves something Jose couldn't do
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Yet Mourinho was our most successful manager post Fergie.

This squad believed in themselves with Ole yet did feck all in the grand scheme of things. Mourinho had this squad infighting and still won more than any other manager has post Fergie.
 
the_cliff said:
Yet Mourinho was our most successful manager post Fergie.

This squad believed in themselves with Ole yet did feck all in the grand scheme of things. Mourinho had this squad infighting and still won more than any other manager has post Fergie.
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A EL and league cup is really nothing special
 
I actually think the sacking of Mourinho was the worst decision Manutd made in the last 10 years. It ended any demand for work ethic and correct attitude - the players were now in control. The players won and knew they had ultimate power at the club. They became too comfortable

He was correct about Martial, Pogba (yes, I know we signed him under Mourinho, but he still identified a wrong one and wanted him moved on quite early), Rashford, Shaw etc. Shame we didn't back him with these removals. It would have at least put us in a position of going for players who have the correct ethic and we would be in a much better position.
 
The same Jose who said he knew the Portuguese market as well as anyone but signed Lindelof and Dalot.
 
Lecland07 said:
I actually think the sacking of Mourinho was the worst decision Manutd made in the last 10 years. It ended any demand for work ethic and correct attitude - the players were now in control. The players won and knew they had ultimate power at the club. They became too comfortable

He was correct about Martial, Pogba (yes, I know we signed him under Mourinho, but he still identified a wrong one and wanted him moved on quite early), Rashford, Shaw etc. Shame we didn't back him with these removals. It would have at least put us in a position of going for players who have the correct ethic and we would be in a much better position.
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Jose was in full meltdown mode when we sacked him. It's good we did.
 
Gehrman said:
Jose was in full meltdown mode when we sacked him. It's good we did.
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Is it? Look where we are now - this has all stemmed from Mourinho's sacking.

In the end, the club chose the players over an experienced manager. They valued their own opinions over a manager who has had a multitude of success.
 
Lecland07 said:
Is it? Look where we are now - this has all stemmed from Mourinho's sacking.

In the end, the club chose the players over an experienced manager. They valued their own opinions over a manager who has had a multitude of success.
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There comes a point where you cannot continue with a manager. Mourinho was close to losing his shiit like he did at Chelsea.

He was also a big disappointment. He could have been a good successor to Van Gaal, having worked under him, but chose to throw out the good work that was done along with everything else and start over.

I was hoping for football from Chelsea‘s title season under him, but we did not get that. Just the park-the-bus keep gaps small part.
 
Lecland07 said:
Is it? Look where we are now - this has all stemmed from Mourinho's sacking.

In the end, the club chose the players over an experienced manager. They valued their own opinions over a manager who has had a multitude of success.
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No the problem is we replaced mourinho with Ole.

And all mourinhos signings were flops in the end as well bar Zlatan maybe.
 
the_cliff said:
It isn't at all.

I'd prefer it to where we are now and the last 2 seasons though.
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Finished 6th in the league that season though, finished 6th in the league last season. So they were well off the pace in the league too.
 
Lecland07 said:
I actually think the sacking of Mourinho was the worst decision Manutd made in the last 10 years. It ended any demand for work ethic and correct attitude - the players were now in control. The players won and knew they had ultimate power at the club. They became too comfortable

He was correct about Martial, Pogba (yes, I know we signed him under Mourinho, but he still identified a wrong one and wanted him moved on quite early), Rashford, Shaw etc. Shame we didn't back him with these removals. It would have at least put us in a position of going for players who have the correct ethic and we would be in a much better position.
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Completely nailed it.

Once the players knew for sure they had the power, they haven't looked back. Chelsea deal with it differently by moving on average players very quickly. We still persist with them, because you know, the "utd way".
 
Jose, LVG and Rangnick were all right. They all pointed out that a lot needs to change within the club. Ole was the perfect yes man because the fans liked him and he's not the type to go publicly against the club hierarchy. I think this was the main reason why we didn't consider Conte for the job. Conte would already be throwing a tantrum against the owners if he was left in Ten Hag's position. Let's all hope that Ten Hag is the same kind of character as Conte and Mourinho and that he would be ready to take a stand against the owners even if he's employed by them.
 
Vernon Philander said:
Completely nailed it.

Once the players knew for sure they had the power, they haven't looked back. Chelsea deal with it differently by moving on average players very quickly. We still persist with them, because you know, the "utd way".
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Chelsea also deal with it by getting rid of underperforming managers like Mourinho, he won the league for Chelsea and he was sacked by Christmas. For United in 18/19, Mourinho won 7 of the first 17 games and had completely lost ground on the top 4. What would Chelsea have done there? They would have sacked Mourinho too.
 
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