Smashley Young

Interestingly, against Norwich, Giggs did more in his limited time on the wing than Young did on the left wing. Saying that, Giggs is still probably better on the wing than as a CM in a two man midfield.
 
Tibs said:
Just remember, if both are fit, Young will be picked ahead of Nani
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If he is indeed on more than Nani, and it's true that Nani wants 130k a week then it's a joke situation. Nani is a far more talented player than Young will ever be, even off form he still contributes more to the side. Knowing Nani might leave and Young will start plenty more games is a right kick in the teeth if it has come down to Nani wanting a pay rise, when Young already gets that. The signing still angers me a little, we didn't even need him. Could have had a much better player for the money spent.
 
Sometimes there are players we buy in the summer which leaves a number of fans more than sceptical, while another faction of the supporters criticize them by saying he's not a fancy foreign player but might do well... and the latter might be right, in cases like Valencia and Carrick.

In this case though, the 'transfer muppets' can feel vindicated. He is a dud at that price with one year left of his contract. Yes, 'he can do a job' in one out of four games, the rest of the times he looks detrimental to our play.

Will soon be a bench option if we buy a decent replacement for Nani.
 
Orton said:
If he is indeed on more than Nani, and it's true that Nani wants 130k a week then it's a joke situation. Nani is a far more talented player than Young will ever be, even off form he still contributes more to the side. Knowing Nani might leave and Young will start plenty more games is a right kick in the teeth if it has come down to Nani wanting a pay rise, when Young already gets that. The signing still angers me a little, we didn't even need him. Could have had a much better player for the money spent.
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All this talk is pretty irrelevant when we don't know what's going on behind the scenes though. For all we know Nani could be an absolute twat in training and to the boss, in which case get him out of the club. For what it's worth I really rate Nani and would love him to stay and for whatever's going on (if indeed there is anything going on) to be sorted out.
 
JonMotsonsFur said:
All this talk is pretty irrelevant when we don't know what's going on behind the scenes though. For all we know Nani could be an absolute twat in training and to the boss, in which case get him out of the club. For what it's worth I really rate Nani and would love him to stay and for whatever's going on (if indeed there is anything going on) to be sorted out.
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We don't know, but i'm just going by what has been reported the past few months, none of us know what goes on behind the scenes regarding anything. But yeah, If that is true.
 
I think the situation is clear. Sell Young and pay Nani 200k a week from Young's transfer fee and getting Young's wage off the books
 
Ekeke said:
I think the situation is clear. Sell Young and pay Nani 200k a week from Young's transfer fee and getting Young's wage off the books
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Really? Leave us with two wingers when our entire game plan is based on wingers? What if one of them get injured?
 
Slevs said:
Really? Leave us with two wingers when our entire game plan is based on wingers? What if one of them get injured?
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With Nani out the picture as it seems, we are left with 2 wingers and they are both playing awful right now. We do have other options, we don't need to play with wingers, as we have already seen a few times this season. Having our entire game plan based on wing play right now isn't working, so maybe it should change.
 
Orton said:
With Nani out the picture as it seems, we are left with 2 wingers and they are both playing awful right now. We do have other options, we don't need to play with wingers, as we have already seen a few times this season. Having our entire game plan based on wing play right now isn't working, so maybe it should change.
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In theory I agree that it could change, but realistically I don't see Sir Alex changing his wingers style. Whatever happens with the Nani situation, rest assured that if he leaves next season, we are getting a winger or two to help out with the squad.
 
Actually following on from that, what is it Young actually brings to the team on a game by game basis that Welbeck doesn't when he plays out there? Yes he's a better crosser but he doesn't cross that much and we see the fruits of it rarely at the moment. The main thing Young does over the option of Nani is that he passes the ball to a team mate a bit more often. Welbeck is very good at that himself
 
Ekeke said:
Actually following on from that, what is it Young actually brings to the team on a game by game basis that Welbeck doesn't when he plays out there? Yes he's a better crosser but he doesn't cross that much and we see the fruits of it rarely at the moment. The main thing Young does over the option of Nani is that he passes the ball to a team mate a bit more often. Welbeck is very good at that himself
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Young's best quality: (go to 1:54)



That is his best quality, along with the ability to twist and turn and cross with both feet. He gives you an option on the left and on the right and his effectiveness doesn't decrease if you make him switch sides.

Welbeck isn't that good at running at players and dribbling past them, not to mention having the good crossing ability that Young has.
 
Said when we bought him that he'll always have 1 good game (usually at home vs poor teams) followed by 5 dog shite ones, just like he did at Villa for 2 seasons. This good game will happen in a few weeks and they'll be posters saying he has finally found his form... He hasn't. Always thought he was massively overvalued by Ferguson, who clearly thought he was getting a bargain at £17m and a 6 figure weekly salary.

At the end of this season or the next he'll be sold to someone like Spurs for £6-7m.
 
Slevs said:
Young's best quality: (go to 1:54)



That is his best quality, along with the ability to twist and turn and cross with both feet. He gives you an option on the left and on the right and his effectiveness doesn't decrease if you make him switch sides.

Welbeck isn't that good at running at players and dribbling past them, not to mention having the good crossing ability that Young has.
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Welbeck and Young have started the same amount of league games this season and Welbeck has dribbled twice the amount of Young. In the champions league Young hasnt started yet but Welbeck has the same rate as Young in the league.

I won't argue that Young probably is the better dribbler, but he hasnt been doing it this season so it doesn't matter. On the basis of performance Welbeck dribbles as much or more than Ashley Young.

Ashley Young averages 0.7 accurate crosses per game... So not even one per game even though sometimes he takes set pieces. Are we really going to miss that?

In his time at United the main thing Young has shown is his shooting from range and how he can turn that into goals now and again. So he really needs to get back on the scoresheet.
 
I honestly haven't ever hated a player so much. Even the likes of Gerrard, Terry, Suarez, Tevez don't have his effect on me because I don't have to watch them week in week out up close and personal.

If he stays this summer, I'll be off the nearest bridge.
 
I still don't understand the rationale of signing him, given his high salary.
 
I wonder what people would have thought of him if he didnt have that good one or two months in the beginning of last season.

I think the problem is, we need a left footed winger. Weve been spoilt by having Giggs there for sooo many years but having a player who isnt left footed means going down that wing loses a lot of momentum unless Evra is overlapping (so that he can more often or not hit the first man with his cross ¬¬)

A few of our goals from the left have been quick whipped in balls (eg RVPs cross for Rooney against Stoke). Having a right footed player who manages to cut back and then take time before hitting the first man really annoys.

For Young id rather him go outside and cross with a weaker foot even if the cross aint that great. Its better than how long he takes now. Its a shame cos crossing was one of his best assets at Villa. The number of times he would cross for Agbonlahor or Carew was quite high iirc.
 
I'm pretty sure we haven't signed a left footed left winger precisely because of Evra and because he wants to get forward as much as possible and its the right footed option that allows him to do that most.

The problem is we have had Nani out there who is both unpredictable and not as good as when hes on form on the right. So passing moves down the left arent as slick and Nani doesnt really retain his full effectiveness there. It would seem to suit us using Kagawa there as more of a right footed Silva option (but actually giving some width too you would hope) as he should be far more accustomed to participating in passing moves down the left with Evra and the left sided striker and midfielder. But obviously he hasnt properly settled yet
 
Selling Young and with that transfer fee and the wages that we are giving him we can afford to give Nani a pay rise and also sign a new young winger (Ince or Zaha) as a bench option.

Really, Young is on nothing better than Young and there is no point on him playing more than Nani and being payed more than Nani.
 
Still baffled by this signing. I always assumed we were going to play him in the hole since we had Valencia and Nani on form when we signed him, but that hasnt worked out and now we're playing him as a second-rate winger...an expensive one at that.

The diving does my head in as well, there's no way we can escape the fact that he's now amongst the worst in the league up there with the likes of Suarez.

A bizarre signing all round. Can't wait for Kagawa to come back from injury soon enough.
 
I was never keen on the signing but damn the last page or so is brutal. With Nani on the outs and Kagawa on the injured list for another month we'll be seeing a lot of Young I imagine and he is capable of patches of good form, he's just never been consistent.
 
Some of the criticism here is way over the top. Am not a fan of his and the fee was definitely on the high side but he isnt as pointless as people here are making out. He was meant to be a squad player to cover for Nani and Valencia. It isnt his fault that he's suddenly 1st choice for us.
 
Young is a good player to have on the squad, but if the opportunity arises to replace Nani with a quality left winger I certainly wouldn't pass up the chance on the grounds that we have Ashley Young.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Some of the criticism here is way over the top. Am not a fan of his and the fee was definitely on the high side but he isnt as pointless as people here are making out. He was meant to be a squad player to cover for Nani and Valencia. It isnt his fault that he's suddenly 1st choice for us.
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Why do you think so? He is on a bigger paycheck than both of them, and it's not that he played that much less than them in last year.
 
Revan said:
Why do you think so? He is on a bigger paycheck than both of them, and it's not that he played that much less than them in last year.
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I think so because SAF isnt dumb. When every poster here and his dog can see that both Valencia and Nani are better players, so can SAF.

I dont know how accurate the wages being branded about are but considering his contract situation, no wonder his agent got him a good pay.

The transfer fee and the wages were poor on our part, am not denying that. Just saying he's shit, pointless etc etc are totally over the top nonsense. He's a decent player, good enough to be a squad player here. Its not his fault we've shot ourselves on the foot with failing to get a winger in and not playing Nani meaning he's become 1st choice.
 
Varun_Utd said:
I think so because SAF isnt dumb. When every poster here and his dog can see that both Valencia and Nani are better players, so can SAF.

I dont know how accurate the wages being branded about are but considering his contract situation, no wonder his agent got him a good pay.

The transfer fee and the wages were poor on our part, am not denying that. Just saying he's shit, pointless etc etc are totally over the top nonsense. He's a decent player, good enough to be a squad player here. Its not his fault we've shot ourselves on the foot with failing to get a winger in and not playing Nani meaning he's become 1st choice.
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I agree that he is a good squad player and he shouldn't be a first choice. But considering how much he cost (although he was in the last year of his contact, am I right) and how much are we paying him (according to all rumours much more than we are paying Nani and Valencia, and is on top 5 biggest paychecks in the club) it hard to imagine that he is only a squad player.

Also, hard to imagine how we aren't willing to give a starter (Nani) a better contract, while Young (a squad player) is earning more money than him.
 
Revan said:
Why do you think so? He is on a bigger paycheck than both of them, and it's not that he played that much less than them in last year.
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Revan said:
I agree that he is a good squad player and he shouldn't be a first choice. But considering how much he cost (although he was in the last year of his contact, am I right) and how much are we paying him (according to all rumours much more than we are paying Nani and Valencia, and is on top 5 biggest paychecks in the club) it hard to imagine that he is only a squad player.

Also, hard to imagine how we aren't willing to give a starter (Nani) a better contract, while Young (a squad player) is earning more money than him.
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He's on a good wage for two reasons (in my opinion). Firstly, because he was paid a great whack at Villa (around £75,000-£80,000 weekly I believe), a contract negotiated in the Marrtin O'Neill era of pissing money away. Secondly, I believe Fergie thought he was a "£30m player", so thought he was saving a big amount on the transfer fee, so offsetted his 6 figure wages with what he believed was a cheap transfer fee.

Varun_Utd said:
I think so because SAF isnt dumb. When every poster here and his dog can see that both Valencia and Nani are better players, so can SAF.

I dont know how accurate the wages being branded about are but considering his contract situation, no wonder his agent got him a good pay.

The transfer fee and the wages were poor on our part, am not denying that. Just saying he's shit, pointless etc etc are totally over the top nonsense. He's a decent player, good enough to be a squad player here. Its not his fault we've shot ourselves on the foot with failing to get a winger in and not playing Nani meaning he's become 1st choice.
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Fergie might believe this now, but I firmly believe that Ferguson mistakenly believed that Young would be a top player. Watching him for years I have no idea why, but chalk it down as a mistake. He's good enough to be a versatile backup.
 
finneh said:
He's on a good wage for two reasons (in my opinion). Firstly, because he was paid a great whack at Villa (around £75,000-£80,000 weekly I believe), a contract negotiated in the Marrtin O'Neill era of pissing money away. Secondly, I believe Fergie thought he was a "£30m player", so thought he was saving a big amount on the transfer fee, so offsetted his 6 figure wages with what he believed was a cheap transfer fee.
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I don' think anyone with half a fecking brain would think that.
 
Revan said:
I agree that he is a good squad player and he shouldn't be a first choice. But considering how much he cost (although he was in the last year of his contact, am I right) and how much are we paying him (according to all rumours much more than we are paying Nani and Valencia, and is on top 5 biggest paychecks in the club) it hard to imagine that he is only a squad player.

Also, hard to imagine how we aren't willing to give a starter (Nani) a better contract, while Young (a squad player) is earning more money than him.
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He was bought to be the 3rd winger at a club that always plays 2. It isnt a first team role but is more meaningful than what a squad player would have.

Also, you have no way of knowing whether we're willing to pay Nani what Young gets. The contract discussion could have stalled because Nani wants an amount significantly higher than young and though we're willing to match young's wages, we're not willing to accept what nani wants.


finneh said:
Fergie might believe this now, but I firmly believe that Ferguson mistakenly believed that Young would be a top player. Watching him for years I have no idea why, but chalk it down as a mistake. He's good enough to be a versatile backup.
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I do think SAF expected him to be better than he has. We all did. Bar his 1st few months, he's constantly been poorer than expected. I dont believe for a moment though that SAF though he had a top player in Young, it'd be insanity. His wages at Villa as you correctly pointed out and the fact that he's english was always going to mean us paying over the top and giving him a fat contract.
 
Varun_Utd said:
He was bought to be the 3rd winger at a club that always plays 2. It isnt a first team role but is more meaningful than what a squad player would have.

Also, you have no way of knowing whether we're willing to pay Nani what Young gets. The contract discussion could have stalled because Nani wants an amount significantly higher than young and though we're willing to match young's wages, we're not willing to accept what nani wants.
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You have no way of knowing that he was signed to be third winger too. He cost us ore than Nani and Valencia, he's English so maybe only we fans had this idea about him being the third choice winger.

I don't know in how much they are, but based in all rumours Young is in 100k+ (in some he was even 120k). Nani is said to be in 90k and asking for 130k, while we are not ready to give him any raise. Anyway it isn't that wages are un-negotiable and Nani has said many times that he wants to stay at United. If Nani is a starter and Young is a back up (rotation option) shouldn't we be willing to give him more money than Young. It is like giving Hernandez more money than Van Persie.
 
Varun_Utd said:
I do think SAF expected him to be better than he has. We all did. Bar his 1st few months, he's constantly been poorer than expected. I dont believe for a moment though that SAF though he had a top player in Young, it'd be insanity. His wages at Villa as you correctly pointed out and the fact that he's english was always going to mean us paying over the top and giving him a fat contract.
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Did you? I thought he'd be a decent, completely overpriced squad player, seems about right so far. I guess the problem is that he doesn't just seem to be a squad player in SAFs eyes.
 
Cina said:
I don' think anyone with half a fecking brain would think that.
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It's the only conclusion I can come to. There is no way Fergie would pay £45m over 5 years for only a decent squad player. So therefore he must have thought he'd become an important player for us.

Varun_Utd said:
He was bought to be the 3rd winger at a club that always plays 2. It isnt a first team role but is more meaningful than what a squad player would have.

Also, you have no way of knowing whether we're willing to pay Nani what Young gets. The contract discussion could have stalled because Nani wants an amount significantly higher than young and though we're willing to match young's wages, we're not willing to accept what nani wants.

I do think SAF expected him to be better than he has. We all did. Bar his 1st few months, he's constantly been poorer than expected. I dont believe for a moment though that SAF though he had a top player in Young, it'd be insanity. His wages at Villa as you correctly pointed out and the fact that he's english was always going to mean us paying over the top and giving him a fat contract.
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I don't think he was brought in as a 3rd winger, not for that cost. We could have signed upteen very talented younger players who would be a 3rd choice, whilst having the potential to massively improve. I honestly think Fergie thought he was bringing in a proven top class winger at a cheap price, who'd challenge Valencia/Nani.

You don't sign a player on £100,000 a week for £17m if you think they'll be a good backup/squad player. It's the discussion I had with Berbatov fans as to why he wasn't a success...

/edit: Oh and I didn't think he'd cut it from day one. I said to people at the time he'll either go the other way if Fergie pushes for Bale in a few seasons or will end up getting sold to a similar caliber team.
 
Revan said:
You have no way of knowing that he was signed to be third winger too. He cost us ore than Nani and Valencia, he's English so maybe only we fans had this idea about him being the third choice winger.
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Prices arent how you judge player's importance to the squad mate. Cmon. There are so many factors that go into finalising a price for a player.

Am not much of a stats man and cant be arsed but i'd be surprised if nani and valencia didnt start most of our matches together when all 3 were fit and in form after young signed.

I don't know in how much they are, but based in all rumours Young is in 100k+ (in some he was even 120k). Nani is said to be in 90k and asking for 130k, while we are not ready to give him any raise. Anyway it isn't that wages are un-negotiable and Nani has said many times that he wants to stay at United. If Nani is a starter and Young is a back up (rotation option) shouldn't we be willing to give him more money than Young. It is like giving Hernandez more money than Van Persie.
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I wont go into discussing contract details because as i said, i fail to see how you can trust these figures to be accurate.

If they are though, i'd be shocked if its all about wages and we're letting Nani leave when he's asking for just 10k more than Young.

Cina said:
Did you? I thought he'd be a decent, completely overpriced squad player, seems about right so far. I guess the problem is that he doesn't just seem to be a squad player in SAFs eyes.
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I didnt care much about the price once the deal had been done, though much higher than what i thought he was worth, it was done.

I certainly did expect him to better than what he's shown us so far though, most certainly. He looks absolutely incapable of beating his man or getting good balls in. All he does all game long is pass back to the middle of the park. It makes me tear my hair out. He's been poor and is definitely capable of playing much better. I never expected him to set OT alight, he isnt close to being that good. But cmon Cina, you really expected him to be as poor as he's been of late? Even before the injury, he's hardly been good enough, i certainly expected better.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Revan said:
You have no way of knowing that he was signed to be third winger too. He cost us ore than Nani and Valencia, he's English so maybe only we fans had this idea about him being the third choice winger.
I certainly did expect him to better than what he's shown us so far though, most certainly. He looks absolutely incapable of beating his man or getting good balls in. All he does all game long is pass back to the middle of the park. It makes me tear my hair out. He's been poor and is definitely capable of playing much better. I never expected him to set OT alight, he isnt close to being that good. But cmon Cina, you really expected him to be as poor as he's been of late? Even before the injury, he's hardly been good enough, i certainly expected better.
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Well no, but I didn't expect Valencia or Nani to be this shit either! I don't think he was bad last season though, he was ok, and that's pretty much what I expected from him, "ok". I wasn't expecting a top winger, I knew he was inferior in contrast to what we already had, and I think his overall output for the season reflected that. If we're going by the idea of him being a "squad player" then his stats and performances last season are pretty good overall.
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finneh said:
I don't think he was brought in as a 3rd winger, not for that cost. We could have signed upteen very talented younger players who would be a 3rd choice, whilst having the potential to massively improve. I honestly think Fergie thought he was bringing in a proven top class winger at a cheap price, who'd challenge Valencia/Nani.

You don't sign a player on £100,000 a week for £17m if you think they'll be a good backup/squad player. It's the discussion I had with Berbatov fans as to why he wasn't a success...

/edit: Oh and I didn't think he'd cut it from day one. I said to people at the time he'll either go the other way if Fergie pushes for Bale in a few seasons or will end up getting sold to a similar caliber team.
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As i said, we're a club that plays 2 wingers every game. IMO, he was bought to be the 3rd winger. It isnt a typical squad role because even though you arent part of the best 11, you'd get plenty of games. Ofcourse he wasnt bought to just be cover in case someone got injured but i doubt SAF rates him as better or as good as the other 2. Our frantic attempts at buying Moura and Hazard tells me SAF did not want to end up having to play him so much because Valencia had a very good season and was a cert starter.

We overpaid on both wages and the fee, him being English, his wages at villa and his contract situation ensured that.
 
Varun_Utd said:
As i said, we're a club that plays 2 wingers every game. IMO, he was bought to be the 3rd winger. It isnt a typical squad role because even though you arent part of the best 11, you'd get plenty of games. Ofcourse he wasnt bought to just be cover in case someone got injured but i doubt SAF rates him as better or as good as the other 2. Our frantic attempts at buying Moura and Hazard tells me SAF did not want to end up having to play him so much because Valencia had a very good season and was a cert starter.

We overpaid on both wages and the fee, him being English, his wages at villa and his contract situation ensured that.
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SAF attempt to sign Moura and Hazard, IMO had more to to with Nani departure than with SAF unwilling to play Young. And again the financial argument comes to play, if SAF rates Nani more than him then how he is not willing to give Nani some more money than Young.
 
Revan said:
SAF attempt to sign Moura and Hazard, IMO had more to to with Nani departure than with SAF unwilling to play Young. And again the financial argument comes to play, if SAF rates Nani more than him then how he is not willing to give Nani some more money than Young.
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As i said earlier,

Young could be at 10 and Nani at 8. Nani could be demanding 15 while we're prepared to pay 12. That'd cause an impasse even though we're willing to give him more than young.
 
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