Let's hope he now remembers that he's a winger and he's supposed to run past players.
Smashley Young
- Thread starter Red Defence
- Start date
Having been out injured for so long, some of the criticism in this thread after his first couple of games back was fecking shameful. Not to mention grossly hypocritical from the cohort of fans who regularly use rustiness after injury to excuse under-par performances from a certain other winger in our squad. Looked a bit sharper last night but obviously needs more games.
Young is a confidence player. I'm hoping that last night has given him the confidence he needs to start expressing himself the way we know he can. Good match for him - let's hope it transfers to his games with united.
To some extent you are right, but the other players whom many, me included, excuse after injury have proven themselves in the team before, so that when Valencia looks sluggish after an injury, we know it will only be a matter of time before he powers past everyone again.
Young hasn't shown us yet what he is truly capable of. He had some good matches at the start of last season, but even then he was hesitant to taking on players, which a good winger should be able to.
He means Nani, not Valencia. Pogue doesn't like Nani's very, um , "zealous" fans.
Well, Nani too has proven that he can play at the highest level. This is what Young has yet to prove. Once he does that, he will be given more leeway.
When he's on his game Young is perfectly happy to take players on. No more or less reluctant than any other winger (well, a lot less reluctant than Stewart Downing!) At the start of last season he was doing this regularly, a good example being the winner at WBA in his very first league game for United. Likewise at the end of last season, when he hit another decent patch of form. Anyway, his best contributions were the intelligent passing and moving that sets him apart from more conventional wide players. He played an important (and under-rated) role in the brilliant attacking football we produced at the beginning of last season.
He did lose his way for a bit in the middle of the season which coincided (iirc) with another spell out injured. All in all, though, it was an encouraging first season for a player at a new club. Definitely scope for improvement, mind you. Goes without saying he deserves a bit more of an opportunity to show he can improve on his debut season than he's been offered in this thread by the usual shower.
He did lose his way for a bit in the middle of the season which coincided (iirc) with another spell out injured. All in all, though, it was an encouraging first season for a player at a new club. Definitely scope for improvement, mind you. Goes without saying he deserves a bit more of an opportunity to show he can improve on his debut season than he's been offered in this thread by the usual shower.
All I've said about Young is that I don't think he's a good enough player to be a first choice winger for this club. I said this long before this season. He is a very good option as a squad player, but we overpaid both his fee and wages, so I just think it was a strange signing, given the wealth of talented young wide players available in the last few years. Just compare him to the quality of first choice wingers we've had throughout SAF's tenure as manager here.
Obviously though you take it as a "but Nani is better player him instead cause I love him", as usual.
Obviously though you take it as a "but Nani is better player him instead cause I love him", as usual.
Can you name any more examples?
He was brilliant in the 8-2 against Arsenal.
Can I remember more examples of him beating his full-back during several games of football at the beginning of last season? Sure I can.
You're not seriously asking me to give you a time, date and opponent for each of these incidents?
He was, but Jenkinson was equally shit that day.
In terms of dribbling and attacking the full back, Young didn't really do much of that last year even when he was playing well and scoring goals. He did more of the 1v1 dribbling when he was at Villa - hopefully it's just a confidence thing.
I wouldn't say his finishing is particularly good or consistent, but he is good at scoring from the half chances. And that alone means he is still a decent goal threat.
He was good last season. Not good enough to displace a form Valencia or Nani, but good enough to keep it competitive and to step in when they got injured or lost form.
This season he's not been good at all. But he's obviously not firing on all cylinders, so that's not really an huge concern. He'll get it again. However, he shouldn't be keeping out a player in great form like Anderson. Not until he can show that he's worth it again.
This season he's not been good at all. But he's obviously not firing on all cylinders, so that's not really an huge concern. He'll get it again. However, he shouldn't be keeping out a player in great form like Anderson. Not until he can show that he's worth it again.
I don't need date or time, but you could name me one game where he succesfully dribbled his fullback couple of times during that game(things that Valencia and Nani do regulary), except for the 8-2 against Arsenal, I don't count Jenkinson in that time as professional player.
To be fair, everyone was brilliant in the Arsenal game, and Arsenal themselves were atrocious.
I think he did well last season though, considering it was his first here, he's similar to Nani in that he seems to find it difficult/slow to come back into form after getting injured.
I think he did well last season though, considering it was his first here, he's similar to Nani in that he seems to find it difficult/slow to come back into form after getting injured.
*sigh*
Arsenal game aside? Spurs at home, Bolton away, Chelsea at home, Stoke away.
i.e. "the start of last season". As per the post of mine you first responded to.
I don't count you in this time as a poster.
He did fairly well last season. Thing is, the money spent on him sortof clouds people's expectations of him. That, and probably him being an England international. For around 17-20 million we tend to either get players as good as Valencia or players with as much potential/talent as Nani/Anderson/De Gea/Jones. So that makes people expect either a quality player or someone with great potential. Young is neither of them but he's still a good squad player and a very good option to have as your third wide player.
At the same time I have to say I'd love for him to be a bit more expressive in general. He plays overly safe when he's not confident. I guess it's better than giving the ball away all the time but you'd want him to have more faith in his abilities.
At the same time I have to say I'd love for him to be a bit more expressive in general. He plays overly safe when he's not confident. I guess it's better than giving the ball away all the time but you'd want him to have more faith in his abilities.
Who exactly? (It's a genuine question, I'm not being deliberately sarcy). I think a lot of the wide players on the market recent aren't the sort to fit into a standard 442/4411. There is definitely a trend towards wide forwards and wide attacking mids. I don't want United to stick simply to traditional wingers and 442, but it's going to remain an option for us for a while yet at least and any player we sign has to fit into that option. Hopefully we'll try out more of a 433/4231 or whatever on occasion. It'll be interesting to see how we incorporate Kagawa.
Young is a good kind of stop gap - he can fit into both of those formations, he's a good squad player, and on form he should be hoping to a push for a place in our first XI. We showed an interest this summer in players like Hazard and that Brazilian kid, and the youth levels have been playing 433 for a few seasons now, so it does seem like it's inevitable we will make that transition at first team level eventually.
I don't get it, your post is basically my post only longer.
Is it cuz I iz black?
Is it cuz I iz black?
Well the impression I and others got is that we basically went and signed Young that Summer because we couldn't get Sanchez, fair enough he went to Barca so that was an impossible task at the end. Even now though you have the likes of Rodriguez, Isco, Muniain etc. I also would've taken Ben Arfa over Young.
The bold part is the issue for me. There's no doubt Young is a good player, and in terms of a squad player you won't find many better wingers out there, no doubt about that. The problem is that SAF doesn't seem to see him as a squad player, he actually seems to see him as a first choice. In fact since he joined the club, I can think of more times where he displaced Nani and Valencia in the team when fit than they displaced him. And obviously anyone with even a bit of football knowledge would agree they're better players than him.
The fee was astronomical given his contract situation, and supposedly the wages are rather healthy too. All this stuff doesn't add up to the idea of him being a "squad player", which is what irks me, because I don't personally think he is good enough, or ever will be good enough to be a nailed on first choice winger at this club, especially when you consider the wingers we've had under SAF before.
Put it this way, if Nani were to leave, which might happen, then there's a very good chance Young will be a guaranteed first choice winger here for a while, and I don't think that's the sort of standard we should aim for.
Agree with all of that. Although not sure about him displacing the other two more than the other way round.
To be honest it's probably because I notice it more when Young displaces them, than vice-verse!
I would imagine there's a reason Fergie often preferred Young in big games last season. Chances are it's a good one.
For a supposedly squad player he certainly plays a lot. I can't remember him sitting on the bench much? When fit he plays, is my impression.
I assume you're referring to the fact that he's defensively very good, which is of course true, but I'd be disappointed at the idea that he'd be picked ahead of quite superior attacking players purely because of that.
It is true, I'm not joking, it was worst performance from a player against Manchester United I saw in a long time, I think it was one of his first apps for Arsenal too.
Just checking stats from those games on whoscored.com(either that or rewatching those games and counting how many succesfull dribbles he had):
vs Spurs -1 succesfull dribble, and from midfield to attack our player with lowest rating in that game. Nani also didn't have too much, only two(I just want to compare his dribblings with our other wingers).
vs Bolton: none, for example, Nani had three, and Young was our player with lowest rating in that game.
vs Chelsea: he got 8.1 rating, but again zero succesfull dribbles(nani on the other side had eight
). vs Stoke - zero again, Nani had seven dribbles.
He had two against WBA though, the game you mentioned, Nani had zero dribbles in that game, but two dribbles doesn't really mean he dribbled his fullback regulary, but let's say he did, it's still one game plus that game against Arsenal, that doesn't make him regular dribbler.
Fair enough, I was in newbs in that time, but that doesn't change fact Jenkinson was one of the worst players who played at all Old Trafford last year.
You're thinking defensive nous. For a winger he's certainly good defensively.
So was Kuyt.
Nick vs Amar: The Saga continues
Pogue is back? ffs!
He can criticize Nani from now on but we can't criticize the player he likes.
He can criticize Nani from now on but we can't criticize the player he likes.
feck me, to think I once argued stats might be useful in discussing football. People will be wheeling out bar charts next. Does anyone actually watch/remember football matches anymore?
Who the hell is nick?
It is true, I'm not joking, it was worst performance from a player against Manchester United I saw in a long time, I think it was one of his first apps for Arsenal too.
Just checking stats from those games on whoscored.com(either that or rewatching those games and counting how many succesfull dribbles he had):
vs Spurs -1 succesfull dribble, and from midfield to attack our player with lowest rating in that game. Nani also didn't have too much, only two(I just want to compare his dribblings with our other wingers).
vs Bolton: none, for example, Nani had three, and Young was our player with lowest rating in that game.
vs Chelsea: he got 8.1 rating, but again zero succesfull dribbles(nani on the other side had eight
vs Stoke - zero again, Nani had seven dribbles.
He had two against WBA though, the game you mentioned, Nani had zero dribbles in that game, but two dribbles doesn't really mean he dribbled his fullback regulary, but let's say he did, it's still one game plus that game against Arsenal, that doesn't make him regular dribbler.
Fair enough, I was in newbs in that time, but that doesn't change fact Jenkinson was one of the worst players who played at all Old Trafford last year.
That's just ridiculous, I can't believe you bothered with all that.
You're thinking defensive nous. For a winger he's certainly good defensively.
So was Kuyt.
Heh. Fwiw I think Kuyt did a great job for Liverpool once he finally settled. Constant thorn in our side, that's for sure. I think Young can be a better player, mind you.
Amar's stats seem relevant to what he's saying, Young hardly dribbles his fullback and they back that up.
You don't need stats to work out that Young rarely dribbles outside his man, his basic MO is to check back and cross with his right foot.
Yeah I agree, but providing the figures still backs it up.