Yep have to agree with that.
On the flip side you also used to be allowed tackle and not pick up yellow cards because someone could have broken a nail.
Smashley Young
- Thread starter Red Defence
- Start date
Yep have to agree with that.
On the flip side you also used to be allowed tackle and not pick up yellow cards because someone could have broken a nail.
He is not surprised players dive. He is surprised Young is still at it despite his managers, fans and the media on his back. I am too.
While you and me may bitch about Barca's antics, their coaches, fans and media don't.
There you go, all explained for you. Learn to discuss things without 8 year old level 'you are too' reactionary nonsense.
Moyes - sort of - supports him, I see. Understandable, I suppose - it would probably do him no good to have his own manager join the media chorus at this point. I doubt he likes it, though. He's made his stance on cheating clear in the past - he even threw in a comment about Adnan having to get used to a bit of rough play without letting this affect him and make him go down easily. After the stamping incident, I mean.
I am fan of the official being above reproach during the game as it happens so fast. Afterwards however players like Young must be hammered severely enough to change their attitude. The point you brought up is a result of the pressure that cheating has put on refs. I think they need all the help they can get to be allowed to make mistakes, I think this, oddly, will result in them making less.
I've long felt that blatant dives should be punished retrospectively. Have a group of refs that vvew such incidents and decide on dives. Wont be long before players stop doing it.
Hopefully after reviewed the video footage David Moyes was talking out of his arse and will keep Young away from the team for a couple of weeks.
It's horrible to watch. Diving is never acceptable, but Young's diving is so obvious I don't even know how referees are falling for his antics. Has a player ever been sent off for two yellows because of diving? I know Young is one of a few capable.
Can't defend him any more. The rare half decent cross doesn't mask his bollockless approach, his diving and general uselessness. It's not often you hope a player leaves asap but it definitely applies to Young. It's come to the point where you're disappointed Bebe is out on loan and this mug has a squad place almost every week.
It's horrible to watch. Diving is never acceptable, but Young's diving is so obvious I don't even know how referees are falling for his antics. Has a player ever been sent off for two yellows because of diving? I know Young is one of a few capable.
Can't defend him any more. The rare half decent cross doesn't mask his bollockless approach, his diving and general uselessness. It's not often you hope a player leaves asap but it definitely applies to Young. It's come to the point where you're disappointed Bebe is out on loan and this mug has a squad place almost every week.
What are you talking about? The scrutiny that Barcelona have had for players like Busquets, Alba and Alves is on another level to anything Young has experienced. They're well known for cheating, and Busquets vs Motta is one of the most talked about/acknowledged/criticised pieces of cheating in years.. Yet he continues to do it.
The only possible difference is that Moyes himself came out and told him to stop, but beyond that Barca have had far more criticism than Young.
You've answered your own question, not by their own fans or manager or Spanish media, and this is a thread about Young diving. FCBarca was at least on topic. Now stop derailing the thread.
Have their own coaches (Guardiola, Tito, Tata) ever publicly acknowledge the existence of diving as a problem for some of their pbs ? I don't think so, it's two different scenarios. The criticism talked about is the one by Barca officials towards the players themselves.
I'd be surprised if Moyes doesn't have a word, his Everton sides were never known for it and he's publicly said he's spoken to him before about it.
What Moyes does or doesn't say to him none of us will probably ever know and neither should we expect to.
I certainly can't see Moyes being directly in the media.
Nothing like gross exaggerations to try and manufacture an irrelevant point
Retroactive punishments for these sorts of things should be commonplace, if not at the league level than certainly in CL by UEFA. I doubt this will take place but I'd love to see it
Me too. I wonder how quickly it would change players' attitudes, though? Would it be a case of players learning quite quickly, or is now too ingrained to be changed over the course of one season, say?
Yeah I said in that post that the only difference might be that Moyes has put himself out by criticising Young. Beyond that though there's little difference, and Barca have had more criticism e.g. Neymar against Celtic, there was more scrutiny and criticism of him than Young but he continues to dive.
I rather have Young and his wage leaving the team in january than bringing in someone else. That would be the best thing for Moyes to do. Young is so fecking far away from being United quality you can get. I think a player like Wayne Routledge would bring just as much to the table, if not more.
Wasn't there a time during Collina's era when there was a talk of retroactive punishments for simulation etc.? Perhaps altogether OT but refereeing hasn't gotten better over the years despite the football getting better, faster & saturated with all kinds of nonfootball tactics to gain an advantage
Personally, I think the minute a law like that would go into the books and a ref books or suspends a player, it would have a ripple effect. But perhaps I'm misjudging things
Players are thick like that, if their coaches don't tell them something is wrong then nothing is wrong for them. They could always think that the media are "out to get them". It's speculation obviously.
A hefty punishment could very well be what's needed and doing it retrospectively, just like the newly-implemented punishment for incidents the ref did not see, would surely force managers to caution their players. Nowadays it seems like some managers do not take diving serious enough to reprimand their own players because there's nothing other than a booking to be concerned about. If bans are dealt out retrospectively then we could see a swift change in how managers perceive diving and work pro-actively to keep it out of the game.
Its a shame his best asset is frowned upon like this
He has won us a fair few pens.
He has won us a fair few pens.
Yeah, I vaguely remember that. I think the argument against was, and is, that it can be extraordinarily difficult to tell what is intended to be a dive at times and they could end up punishing innocent players at times. Also that you'd be giving a larger punishment than if the offence was spotted by the referee. Personally I'd prefer the odd player was banned for something like that than let everyone else away with it.
The one potential problem I see with retroactive punishment based on video evidence is that it could easily lead to an appeal fest far beyond what we have now with other kinds of retroactive measures. And there is still quite a difference between the various national leagues when it comes to diving - not least how it's generally looked upon (by everyone from fans to refs).
I don't understand why everybody is unified in saying that was a dive. My Lord, if it was that is one impressive dive. Have you ever had your arm pulled whilst running, you will go down. It's not like he tripped on his own foot, he was pulled and put off balance. Definite foul.
Does that matter? There is enough money in the game to set up a new panel to review games.
As for the regional difference, that will have to be further dowm the line, as any improvement will first have to be domestically ran if not led.
The other player made a gesture to do something, but that is not what caused Young to go down. There has always been contact in football, and it has never led to extreme tumbles like that. Defenders seem less inclined to hit the ground in a 'tussle' ... I wonder why?
Cmon. Tug of an arm and he collapsed with his legs giving away as if he'd been tripped.
Dietmar Hamman says he's a worse diver than Suarez. Now I'm going to defend Young here, because he doesn't feign injury like Suarez does. He looks for it & 'manufactures' contact but he doesn't dive without being touched, or commit a foul but pretend it is him who has been fouled.
nah, Suarez is much worse than Young in that respect. I concede that Suarez knows how to play football though...
nah, Suarez is much worse than Young in that respect. I concede that Suarez knows how to play football though...
There's one very easy explanation to that one.
It was a blatant dive. It wasn't impressive. That level of contact would not cause anyone to fall.
Guilty of exaggerating a legitimate foul.
He's also a much worse diver than Hitler.
Diving is quite a bit down the list if you're looking for something to criticise Suarez for.
I'm not desperate to defend Ashley here because i'm not a great fan of his. But I think it's being blown well out because of his reputation. It's like when Ronaldo got accused of diving in his later United years. I don't think people realize that even minimal contact can send you over when you are running. I remember being accused of diving for something similar when it was just that the contact sent me off balance into a comical fall.
Aye - fair points. I foresee plenty of appeals, though. It is more room for doubt when it comes to diving - to what extent did he overplay an actual case of being slightly off balance? And so forth. But you're right: It shouldn't be a question of whether most leagues can afford it. I wouldn't be opposed to it being implemented in the Premier League - which would be easier than in certain other leagues. And if it's a success, it might catch on.
And to be fair to Young, Sociedad had been doing the same thing any time they were fouled. Christ, that one fella dove into Valencia and then laid down like he was going to bed.
Totally, but it's a cultural change that is needed, so if there is a fear of punishment it may remove the temptation? Officiating football can never be fully scientific, all you hope for is that it's as fair as possible.
Why is some random dickhead's twitter account being posted here?