Tbf I'm slating him but it's not that I don't think he's good enough for united, just that ideally he shouldn't be a starter. On his day he can be excellent but I find when he's not on his game he's just too average and too reliant on Evra to provide the actual penetration. But I fully accept he's a good squad player to have. Personally I think after having seen the impact Zaha and Januzaj had in preseason and expecting Nani and Rooney to stay I wouldn't have had any issues in him moving on. I think with Nani and Valencia as the senior wingers and Welbeck and Kagawa most likely to get games from a wider role that we could move him on to ensure Zaha and Januzaj can get as much time as they can.
Smashley Young
- Thread starter Red Defence
- Start date
Carrick was far from average. He put in his best defensive performance this season. I also don't understand the "average again" tag because he's had one average game this season and that was against Liverpool. In fact, he was largely responsible for Crystal Palace not reaching our final third for a large part of the game. The only aspect of his play that could be deemed "average" was his passing - there were a lot of "unCarrick-like" moments with regards to his passing, but other than that, he was by far the best midfielder on the pitch. Take a look at this:
This.
Zaha and Januzaj have had more impact in preseason to merit appearances against teams in the league / cup games than Young. He wasnt doing jack shit in pre season, the end of last season or during any of the games he started.
And thats the sad part, he's STARTING matches, which is ridiculous considering Kagawa / Zaha / Januzaj / Nani are on the bench.
I was watching MOTD 2 last night and he was getting slatted, also read, he just needs to cut it out. a few thing this morning about his diving.
While I think they are being harsh, he has brought it on himself.
While I think they are being harsh, he has brought it on himself.
he's not very likable really is he? It's telling when two managers who are renowned for defending their players through thick and thin both publicly criticized him for his actions. I never want to dislike a Utd player but it's very hard to like him at times.
I'm hoping they both coincide.
I dont mind him, he is a decent player, just his diving is not needed, most of the time it is cringworthy.
The PL ref will watch the pen he got, which should not of been a pen, it was outside the area and he will not get another pen awarded this season.
Yup, he'll be the new Bale, even if it's a legit penalty, he'll be booked.
I've seen in two threads people saying that Valencia and Young are good 'squad players', why?
How are two wingers who have created nothing between them for the best part of a year good players to have in the squad?
Januzaj, Zaha and Giggs are good squad players because they're young and raring for the chance or have a wealth of experience. Valencia and Young add little to the squad except from defensively.
How are two wingers who have created nothing between them for the best part of a year good players to have in the squad?
Januzaj, Zaha and Giggs are good squad players because they're young and raring for the chance or have a wealth of experience. Valencia and Young add little to the squad except from defensively.
Well there you have it, defensively they are both good options to have, Valencia was doing a great job helping out against Chelsea, for some reason the attacking side of his game is gone but he's still putting in a shift. The bigger problem is that whilst these two aren't really creating they're either playing with each other both in the team so we get the dual affect of them not creating, or with Welbeck/Giggs, neither of whom are a constant creative force, although Giggs is always trying in fairness. If we had say Valencia on one side and then someone on the other side who was a big threat it wouldn't be such an issue.
No, it wouldn't. When that player on the other side is Ashley Young though, it becomes a big problem. Hopefully when Nani and Kagawa are available again, we won't see that too often from Moyes.
Thats's pretty much my point, their individual lack of attacking ouput is bad but it's compounded by the fact that we're playing and have been playing quite a bit last season 4 out of valencia, young, giggs and welbeck, none of them producing a reliable output.
I think primarily the job of your winger is to create, if the two on the pitch (lets say Welbeck and Nani) aren't do you honestly think that Valencia and Young would come on and do so?
That's why I don't really think they're great squad options there are easier ways to shut up shop than to bring on two wingers to do a shift and with Fellaini and Carrick we shouldn't need so much from the wide area defensively.
I still think Valencia should get cut a bit of slack, he's after all, shown over a whole season that he can be good enough offensively to be a United winger and he probably deserves a bit of loyalty from us in the hope he can get back to that level but Young never has achieved that and having both of them around because they can be auxiliary full backs for 10 minutes or so is not really indicative that they add much to the squad, you could achieve the same thing by getting one of the Da Silvas in midfield and it would only be called more negative because of the players respective names.
True but they give you the option of say bringing on another striker like Hernandez and letting them push forward as they will offer the extra defensive protection needed and they will also use the ball sensibly, if too conservatively but ultimately it will help us keep the ball which can let us keep the pressure on and we might nick somethin.
There's no reason to think both of them will be like this forever, and even then if we're playing a team on the counter than Valencia has shown he's still a threat there, it's primarily when teams are organised and keeping it tight that he's causing issues.
I'm not a big fan of Young as my other posts in this thread show but I still think he's a good squad option to have. Works hard, plays sensibly and is capable of being a threat from open play and set pieces. Personally I would have moved him on in the summer but he's still a good option whilst he's here, ideally though he won't be playing with someone who is equally being uncreative like Valencia or just not particularly creative like Welbeck.
I thought he was poor in the game, mostly doing nothing with the ball despite having it in acres of space. Can someone post the picture with the graph of all his involvement in the match?
He was a bit frustrating to watch in the first half but definitely improved as the 2nd wore on. Fair dues.
Young's just so average, I think that's why United fans jump on his diving antics more than other more illustrious players.
What's most disappointing is his regression. While we overpaid for him, he came in as one of the league's most productive wingers. What the hell happened?
What's most disappointing is his regression. While we overpaid for him, he came in as one of the league's most productive wingers. What the hell happened?
I think you're underestimating his contribution Noodles.
In the first half, it was his run that ended with the dive, but should have ended with him having a shot at goal from 10 yards. He went past three players to get into that position.
Several times he played Evra into a completely free crossing opportunity, perhaps most noticeably in the second half with a very clever through ball between two players. He also won the penalty through a very good bit of movement, even if it was outside the box initially.
And his run that Anderson fed lead to a clear shooting opportunity.
So it's not like he did nothing, in fact he was probably our most threatening attacking player bar maybe Rooney.
Is that the serious question?
People wonder why I keep referring to Young's injuries since joining United. I keep referring to them because the vast majority of you for whatever reason remain entirely ignorant of them!
I'm not one of the lot who jumps on Young's back, Cider. In fact, this may well be the first time I've posted in this thread. Injuries have played a part, no doubt, but his entire game has regressed since he joined us. Fundamentals, like taking a quality set-piece, have completely deserted him.
Even on this one, Ashley Young is up there, he only became a Premier League player in 06/07. I would say his assist stats is one of the best in the league. Therefore, the people saying he's not worth £18m are very clueless. He's not a Ronaldo or Messi but then we didn't pay £80m or £250k per week wages for him. I can understand the fans of the other clubs giving Young the stick, it's a travesty some United fans are also kowtowing the balderdash the media are saying about Young.
Its far from Balderdash to claim that he is a cheat and that it needs to be stamped out of his game.
Good god, as an aside, Thierry Henry's stats are ridiculous. 176 goals and 144 assists in 258 games...
I thought it was a pen.
Yes he had two dives last season...but it's the media that choose to make a big deal out of it, vs the hundreds of other players that did the same or worse.
Yes he had two dives last season...but it's the media that choose to make a big deal out of it, vs the hundreds of other players that did the same or worse.
It was a foul, but not a penalty. Should've been a free kick just outside the box.
Which football player isn't a cheat? Which football player does not look for gaining an advantage over his opponents? It's hypocritical to say Young is a cheat when Rooney is clearly claiming a United throw even when he knows he was the last player to touch the ball before the ball went out of touch. Diving is not the only thing football players do to cheat.
Moving the ball forward in a freekick situation is cheating. Moving the wall forward to defend a freekick is cheating. I do not see the media witchhunting all the players doing these things but Young is an easy target. World class players like Messi/Maradona used their arms to score goals - they were hailed as geniuses. Ashley Young hit the deck & he's worse than Hitler. Such hypocrisy & balderdash is sickening. The British media are a disgrace!!!
So is the fact Ashley young gets paid.
Ashley Young is a professional football player - He has to be paid. The media talking nonsense and even having some United fans kowtowing this rubbish make me nauseous already.
One things for sure, Young has a serious reputation among referees and this won't be the last time we see him booked for simulation.
Pfffffft, says you.
I think its because he does it far more often than other player who have done it at times, like Rooney
His stats say 38 goals + 67 assists in 224 league games. Valencia has 17 goals + 43 assists in 189 league games. Numbers don't lie, Statistics are facts!!!
Young >>>>>>>>>>> Valencia
Would be a bit more interesting if you take out all the games Young played up front at Watford, in the hole for his last season at Villa and all of Valencia's games at right back.
Then you'd have the numbers to compare winger vs winger. Right now you dont
Then you'd have the numbers to compare winger vs winger. Right now you dont
Ralph Milne >>>>>>>>>Young
stats don't lie but stats are meaningless without context. About 2/5s of those assists are from set pieces which Young rarely takes at united and certainly Valencia doesn't. Also doesn't include the fact that Young has primarily played much more advanced than Valencia does. It would be like looking at Lamps stats to scholes and then say lamps is a much better attacker without considering that scholes has done most of his stuff from open play or at least a lot more.
There good stats though and I think anyone who says Young isn't good enough for the squad is going to far. But they're not stats that suggest he should be a first teamer particularly as I said a lot of them are from set pieces which he simply doens't take at united as there are better people for that ie RVP.
Are rightbacks exempted from assisting goals? I don't think one can find a better English winger in this country with Young's productivity. I even tried to compare Young to Stewart Downing and the result was stunning. Downing has 29 goals + 35 assists in 312 league games. It's either United fans are overspoilt or there's an agenda against Ashley Young on this isle. Young puts the P in productivity.
It then begs the question - if Young is not good enough to be in our first team, who does? Giggs at 40? A one-legged Valencia or perhaps Bebé? I understand your standards might be very high in that you expect every winger to be as deadly as Ronaldo but there's no way Valencia is better than Ashley Young. If Young does not make your first team, Valencia shouldn't make it either.
Downing is renown for his inability to get an assist.
Young was very productive at Villa, people used to say is was mostly set pieces and he doesnt really get one at United. His delivery from open play tends to leave something to be desired in his time here
Try comparing Walcott for a more accurate comparison with Young. Both have played as a striker at times
Young was very productive at Villa, people used to say is was mostly set pieces and he doesnt really get one at United. His delivery from open play tends to leave something to be desired in his time here
Try comparing Walcott for a more accurate comparison with Young. Both have played as a striker at times
No but Giggs is a squad player not part of the first eleven and not typically in when everyone else is fit unless for a specific reason. Every winger doesn't need to be a Ronaldo but they need to be able to do something. As I said Young has had a lot of his goals/assists from set pieces and being pushed higher up the pitch, playing in a deeper role and not being the set piece taker certainly not a main one, for me seriously reduces what he naturally brings, as I said though he's still more than good enough to be a squad player. Valencia doesn't need to be a set piece taker nor player higher up the pitch to be very effective though.
In honesty though neither would be part of my first eleven.