Set pieces or not - he produces the goods. Fact remains if Young gets a good run of games, he is capable of delivering. Maybe most of his assists are from set-pieces but that's another route to get goals for the team. Frank Lampard would be Djemba-Djemba without set pieces. He's scored close to 50 penalty kicks for Chelsea. I just don't understand the criticism Young gets on these pages. He has not disappointed me yet in a red shirt. I can always count on him.
Smashley Young
- Thread starter Red Defence
- Start date
Set pieces or not - he produces the goods. Fact remains if Young gets a good run of games, he is capable of delivering. Maybe most of his assists are from set-pieces but that's another route to get goals for the team. Frank Lampard would be Djemba-Djemba without set pieces. He's scored close to 50 penalty kicks for Chelsea. I just don't understand the criticism Young gets on these pages. He has not disappointed me yet in a red shirt. I can always count on him.
Well again bit different, Lampard does get a lot of set piece goals/assists but he gets to take them. My point was that Young has gotten a significant number of his goals/assists because he played higher up the pitch and was the main set piece taker. At united he's had to play deeper and more and more had set piece opportunities taken away from him as better takers such as RVP have emerged. So now he's having to do more in open play and I don't think he's showing enough, certainly not at the level we should expect from a first teamer. But if he's never disappointed you yet then there's not much I can say. For me he shouldn't be a first eleven player, I don't think he would get in to any of the other top 5 teams but he is certainly good enough for the squad.
Can you list our wingers in a pecking order according to their abilities? Choose from Lingard, Bebé, Valencia, Nani, Giggs(presently), Janujaz, Welbeck, Young.
Nani
Welbeck
Valencia
Giggs
Young
Janujaz
Lingard
Bebe ( not that hes playing for you right now)
I know some will rush to place Janujaz up there already, but hes only really played a handful of games with the first team and only 20 minutes in the EPL, think we need a bit more to go on before we go mental.
Well in going to throw kagawa in there as I think he'll get nosy his games wide like welbeck in which case I'd go nani, kagawa, Valencia, welbeck, young, giggs, januzaj l, zaha, lingard. Bebe is clearly not in contention unless there's a catastrophe.
And even then whilst young is a better player now i'd happily have let him go to give Januzaj and zaha his time as they can be better in a few seasons.
Valencia & Welbeck over Ashley Young? I give up......EssexRob even gave Giggs a nod ahead of Ashley Young. Help, I am in the land of Philistines...
Im pretty sure most of the cafe and pretty much everyone, everywhere would put Valencia and Welbeck above Young, is it even debatable? I still think Giggs offers more than Young, even if age has severaly caught up with him.
I meant the one where he was carded.
Didn't see anything on the replay that changed my mind, but I could be wrong. It would certainly have been a 'won' penalty...but the defender stuck out his leg, they are given all the time.
Fair enough. He does kick the defender though, blatantly trying to con the ref.
No, No.... no mate come on look at this replay.
The defender sticks out a leg to try and get the ball, misses because Young has kicked it deliberately about 2 yards the wrong way and to no-one, then Youngs leg swings round to make contact followed by a swan dive. Its not really any worse than half of other players dives, but im sure if this were against United you would be fuming and they arent ones that are given all the time, if so referees would be getting demoted all the time as well.
He kicks your man's leg and throws himself to the ground. If someone did that against me I'd kick him in the balls next time the ball got off the ground. Can't believe anyone would defend that (besides the knobends who do it themselves).
Really!! so are you not disappointed that a United player blatantly cheats to try and get penalty's.
The way he dives to get pens is shocking, I don't give a shit about other players in other teams doing it, I hate it and if the ref thinks he has tried to cheat to win a penalty, the ref should send that player off.
Not only does he disappoint me when he dives, he annoys the hell out of me.
Would much rather have Victor Moses than Young. A winger that can actually beat his man *shock horror*
Does it matter if it's a pass to no one? I don't see why it would.
And I don't see Young's leg swing wide to catch the leg of the defender, nor does Young's stride seem unnatural.
But I seem to be in the minority here, I can accept that.
Stonewall penalty, that.
It's a dive FFS
Clear contact, defender brought him down. Pen and a booking, maybe a red as he could have got a shot off after he cut back.
Honestly, you don't see it? The sudden acceleration of leg into the Palace player at 26-27 seconds? It matters because the pass was clearly designed to make sure he didnt get to the ball and make it appear worse, it was a cleverly manufactured move bar the awful dive. I am slightly concerned that you don't actually see it though!
This. It was a clear dive from a player who dives in just about every match he plays in.
You're talking about the incident when young was booked?
Yes. Dreadful decision from the ref, he should be sent to the championship for a few weeks.
Haha WUM
All this talk of goals and assists with Ashley Young is absolutely missing the point in my opinion in terms of what often happens when he's on a football pitch. I honestly think when we play him he's akin to some sort of black hole that just sucks the football from our team into it. That's not entirely his fault - we're so poor through the centre that we are pretty much forced to play it out wide - but when that player is Ashley Young who makes little effort to create and link up play it becomes a serious problem.
That's what exacerbates the situation with him, to be honest. People say he's a decent/good back up winger but that's not how we use him at all; he's a player we constantly shift the ball out to in the hope of something happening, and one that is almost always played when fit. He's treated by the players and the manager like an integral Manchester United footballer instead of the squad player he's supposed to be. I don't mean to go on, but when people wonder why we haven't scored in open play, play dull football, look slow in the build up...there's your answer! We play a brand of football that is trying to force Ashley Young to become our key creative player. He has nothing like the level of talent to justify such an influential role.
I would much, much rather he provided more of a general threat than providing an assist or goal at a consistent rate basically. We would benefit a lot more as a team that way.
That's what exacerbates the situation with him, to be honest. People say he's a decent/good back up winger but that's not how we use him at all; he's a player we constantly shift the ball out to in the hope of something happening, and one that is almost always played when fit. He's treated by the players and the manager like an integral Manchester United footballer instead of the squad player he's supposed to be. I don't mean to go on, but when people wonder why we haven't scored in open play, play dull football, look slow in the build up...there's your answer! We play a brand of football that is trying to force Ashley Young to become our key creative player. He has nothing like the level of talent to justify such an influential role.
I would much, much rather he provided more of a general threat than providing an assist or goal at a consistent rate basically. We would benefit a lot more as a team that way.
Spot on. The wings is such a massive part of how we play and when he and Valencia are both so predictable and off the boil, its no wonder we're creating very little.
I'd love to see us get a bit more flair and unpredictability in our side which the likes of Nani, Zaha, Kagawa and Januzaj would provide. At the minute its too predictable, the formation too rigid and the off the ball movement pretty shocking.
The difference is quality between Januzaj and Young was very noticeable (and this after Young having one of his better games.) He's just not good enough - the diving is all the more reason to get rid of him.
It was a terribly obvious dive. If you're not convinced look at the way his left leg moves - if he had any intention of trying to chase the cutback he'd need to be trying to move it back across his body, instead of leaping into the air and sticking it out at basically a right angle to his torso.
For me, after he's been injured he just doesn't have the pace and power to cut in on his right anymore. Instead he tries to balance the play by attacking to get beyond the fullback but instead not really being able to and cutting back and delivering a difficult inswinger into the box which is freaking hard to get on target.
I still wan't him played on the right as a more direct source akin to the opposite of Valencia. Drive diagonally from sideline to box and give RVP a second option to get one touch angled service. Leave Nani on the left to do the trickery and beat players with sublime feet.
edit: Actually not true, he showed good glimpses of it against 10 men in the second half.
Seriously, Giggs above Young? I understand the legend and all that...but in terms of ranking a specialist winger on current ability, this just is ridiculous! At this moment, Young, Valencia & Nani are the obvious choices for a big match. Though they can play wide, I don't want to rank Wellbeck/Kagawa alongwith core wingers list.
Graham Poll as his say, on reflection maybe Moyes should not have been so honest to the media. He should have pulled a Wenger.
Writing in the Daily Mail, former referee Graham Poll said the FA had to act against Young. "[He] is a cheat and he should be banned for five games, then he might stop diving to try and con referees. Managers' 'having a word' with him has not discouraged Young from diving and so it should be time for the footballing authorities to step in.
"Any change to law needs submission and approval by the IFAB but a disciplinary sanction is not covered in law, it is determined by National Associations. Therefore in cases of undisputed diving, whether punished on the field or not, why not impose a five match ban? I believe that would have a much better effect than the managerial word."
Writing in the Daily Mail, former referee Graham Poll said the FA had to act against Young. "[He] is a cheat and he should be banned for five games, then he might stop diving to try and con referees. Managers' 'having a word' with him has not discouraged Young from diving and so it should be time for the footballing authorities to step in.
"Any change to law needs submission and approval by the IFAB but a disciplinary sanction is not covered in law, it is determined by National Associations. Therefore in cases of undisputed diving, whether punished on the field or not, why not impose a five match ban? I believe that would have a much better effect than the managerial word."
Ah graham 3 yellows poll.
5 match ban, seems reasonable.
I'd support the notion of a match ban for diving (though not five matches!) if we could say for sure that Player X had definitely taken a dive rather than simply having dodged a clumsy challenge at speed and been thrown off balance. I remember two Gareth Bale bookings last season which I thought were unfair as all he'd done was try to avoid being fouled and consequently gone down as he lost his footing. My worry is that if diving becomes a more serious offence then players will be going down under hard and clumsy tackles more often as they become mindful of any attempt to skip away from the challenge lest such avoidance measures result in them hitting the deck without contact and thus be incorrectly construed as a dive.
For me "exaggerated contact" is a bigger issue. Players often exaggerate the impact of a contact and that's the one that shouldn't be confused with diving.
But yeah, avoiding a bad tackle should also not be mistaken for a dive. But I feel this stuff is pretty clear cut given that you get such good camera angles to decypher them from.
It's clear to me that United fans aren't arsed about the frequency with which he dives. It's all about the fact that he's a sub-standard player. We'd afford him a lot more leeway when it comes to his diving if he was producing top notch performances. As it is, it's hard to indulge him when he's not doing the business.
Edit: look at Suarez at Liverpool.
If the FA really wanted to stamp out diving, then they'd start hitting players with big bans post match. Te fact that this hasn't happened makes me wonder whether certain people want to keep controversy in sport to maintain the level of entertainment.
Diving is only a bookable offence though so how could they justify any big retrospective bans?
Before the FA could issue bans then they'd have to make diving a red card offence, and I don't think they'll be doing that any time soon.
Before the FA could issue bans then they'd have to make diving a red card offence, and I don't think they'll be doing that any time soon.