Here's hoping.
Smashley Young
- Thread starter Red Defence
- Start date
Here's hoping.
Ashley Young is 28, Fletcher was still in his early 20s when he began to 'shine'. This is more of an issue considering that Young (supposedly) is a winger, meaning that as he ages and his pace worsens, so will his effectiveness. Whereas midfielders tend to peak in their late 20s/early 30s.
Bizarre signing, but I hope he regains some form and becomes a decent squad player.
Bizarre signing, but I hope he regains some form and becomes a decent squad player.
It was a post with 2 meanings...
One, i see lots of retards making ridiculous statements about one of our own.
Two, hes got enough potential to be given a feck load more opportunities to shine yet so get off his case and start supporting him.
One, i see lots of retards making ridiculous statements about one of our own.
Two, hes got enough potential to be given a feck load more opportunities to shine yet so get off his case and start supporting him.
i think we all should have considered him a decent squad player last season.
So whats changed? He got injured and has now struggled for form since his return.
Surely he deserves more chances than what he has gotten from you lot?
I certainly wouldnt bet against him regaining his form from last season and being a useful squad player. In fact I would bet against that not happening. I just think we should be looking to sign better players than him, that's all. Unless you are signing youth with potential, or getting people at bargain basement prices. And he is neither of those.
Still, not his fault.
Still, not his fault.
Agree with pretty much everything there.
At his wage and price, we should be looking at better players. There's no way we'd have have gone for him had he not been English, which is something i dont understand.
The bottomline remains though that it wasnt his fault we paid what we did. Neither is it his fault that we've got ourselves into a situation where we need to play him straight back from injury giving him no time to ease in. He's never going to be a regular starter for a club like ours imo, he'l still be a good squad player to have though.
For all the 'Lets buy another winger' jokes this summer, we actually need to do exactly that in Jan if we're not changing the system and things with Nani remain the same.
I agree, but i see the same problem with Young as i do with Nani, they are not really wingers, but more goalscoring wide forwards. I just don't see either of them looking comfortable when played as a traditional winger, which in my view affects their consistency.
Same with Valencia if we played him as a wide forward, he is not really a goalscorer, so he does'nt look comfortable making runs into the box. He prefers to stay out wide and provide for others, whereas both Nani and Young imo, are far better goalscorers than they are providers.
In our system the wingers are supposed to stay wide, stretch the opponents, and provide quality service for the strikers. Only Valencia fits that bill to me, which is why he is by far the most consistent of the 3.
I think there's a lot to what you're saying. Ashley Young blossomed at Villa as more of an auxiliary forward than as a winger and certainly at the start of last season, when he was at his best for us, he was not getting chalk on his boots.
Young, Nani, Rooney, Welbeck, Anderson and Cleverley were all playing relatively close together and that allowed them to ping the ball around between each other and bring the best out of each other.
This isn't an excuse for Young's terrible performances lately because going back to West Brom away in his first league game for us he was showing he could go down the outside, it led to the winning goal that day.
However I think its clear to see that the likes of Young, Welbeck, Nani, Ando and Clev do have reduced impact if they're not able to play in triangles. The way we're playing now in a rigid 4-4-2 with wingers on the touchline and gaping space between players is actually not really suiting anyone in our team because of Valencia's dip in form. A lot of high, long balls are being played to nobody right now.
If we ditch that and allow people to come inside we might be able to do more of this:
The upside of this is if we are going to start playing a narrower formation, even (dare I say it?) 4-3-3, it could bring out the best in him.
I think there's a lot to what you're saying. Ashley Young blossomed at Villa as more of an auxiliary forward than as a winger and certainly at the start of last season, when he was at his best for us, he was not getting chalk on his boots.
Young, Nani, Rooney, Welbeck, Anderson and Cleverley were all playing relatively close together and that allowed them to ping the ball around between each other and bring the best out of each other.
This isn't an excuse for Young's terrible performances lately because going back to West Brom away in his first league game for us he was showing he could go down the outside, it led to the winning goal that day.
However I think its clear to see that the likes of Young, Welbeck, Nani, Ando and Clev do have reduced impact if they're not able to play in triangles. The way we're playing now in a rigid 4-4-2 with wingers on the touchline and gaping space between players is actually not really suiting anyone in our team because of Valencia's dip in form. A lot of high, long balls are being played to nobody right now.
If we ditch that and allow people to come inside we might be able to do more of this:
That clip was over a year ago but every time I see it, I can't help but watch it over and over again.
Ye it was a pre-season friendly but it was a beautiful sight and it was against City. I then become disappointed because we haven't produced anything remotely close to that this season yet we have the players to do so. Oh well
I agree, i was actually going to reference that period but didn't want my post to be too long! Glad i didn't now, as your clip made the point with far more impact than simply describing it!
That clip was over a year ago but every time I see it, I can't help but watch it over and over again.
Ye it was a pre-season friendly but it was a beautiful sight and it was against City. I then become disappointed because we haven't produced anything remotely close to that this season yet we have the players to do so. Oh well
This cuts to the bone of my main issue with SAF atm. I really cannot see why he is ignoring what is by far the most exciting and devastating spell of football we have seen in a long long time.
As you say we have the players, and yet we ignore them in favour of using players who are clearly past their best. I struggle to see how we are moving forward from our successes of a few seasons ago, and i don't know in which direction SAF is taking the team.
To me it looks like we have reverted back to the system he used back in the late 90's, and unfortunately is still insistent upon using the 2 remaining players we have from that period. This system is predictable and out of date in the modern game, and causes us as many problems as it causes our opponents.
We need to move forward not backwards, and although it won't be a popular view, my reasoning for SAF not moving to a more progressive fluid system of play is that he either doesn't know how to change, or simply refuses to. After Queiroz helped move us on to our very successful 4-3-3, as that influence has faded, we have simply reverted back to what SAF was successful with before Queiroz came along.
Is that enough in the modern game? Only time will tell i suppose.
Oh well, at least we all know that we are not Fergie.
There are 25games of PL left and FA cup and CL games.
There are 25games of PL left and FA cup and CL games.
I've been a fan of Young since his days at Watford...but he's looking miles away from being a United player at the moment. Hopefully he'll rediscover some of the sparkle he had the start of last season.
The thing is though, pretty much the entire team were fantastic at the start of last season. That's what worries me, the idea that if the rest of the team aren't great, he can't perform himself. I don't really recall many matches where we played poorly overall but he played excellent and was a key factor in winning us the game, maybe one or two? Where as Nani and Valencia have put in great performances countless times, Nani practically bailing us out in 10/11, and Valencia doing the same last season.
Yeah...see what you mean. He scored them 2 at Spurs when we were struggling to dominate and was good for winning a pen or two
He is one of them, like you say, who seems to compliment us when we are on form but not really one of them who might drag us back into a game when we're desperate.
Thought his goal at Blackburn last season was well taken as well t bury that game...but he had a poor summer and he has taken it into this season.
Fergie just needs to accept he got it wrong with Young and sell him whilst he still has value. Please dont do another Berbatov and keep a player and then just not play him.
Can't see him giving up this early...
I know Fergie loves wingers - fine - but then at least sign real quality. For £17m we could have done alot better.
Again this is not the players fault - who is going to turn down playing for United and getting near to £100k a week?
I think Ashley Young has quality about him but I just am not sure he quite has it in the abundance needed to play for United week in and week out. At the moment he is certainly struggling..this coming from someone who quite rates him.
I'd like to see us buy some real quality in this area. Someone who can really run at defenders, strike fear and beat a few men with skill and pace. That and a centre mid who can protect the back four, win the ball and be our engine room and I'd fancy as for the title by a long stetch and to go to the latter stages of Europe and compete with the best.
As it is I don't.
I'd like to see us buy some real quality in this area. Someone who can really run at defenders, strike fear and beat a few men with skill and pace. That and a centre mid who can protect the back four, win the ball and be our engine room and I'd fancy as for the title by a long stetch and to go to the latter stages of Europe and compete with the best.
As it is I don't.
I told you he wasn't good enough gimpface.
Though some of the criticism is too harsh. He's in poor form at the moment, and the team aren't doing much to give him a chance to drag himself out of it.
Every time a player runs into some poor form, for some reason everyone seems to instantly think that they were always that shit and will never improve again.
He is just out of form. Like most of our team, give him some time and he will improve, he can be a very good player. But we all know he won't get any time since most of the caf thinks every single problem can only be solved by spunking money at other players.
He's the one not giving himself much of a chance to drag himself out of poor form. Most of the time when he gets the ball in a good position he gives it to someone else instead of taking on a defender or looking to make a gamechanging cross. He will never look a quality player if he's so content to just drop the ball off to someone else.
Not taking on his man and not attempting anything difficult is just a sign of low confidence which causes poor form.
He had an awful Euros for which he was absolutely slaughtered, more than pretty much anyone else. He was then injured for months on end. He's had a pretty shit time lately tbh.
He had an awful Euros for which he was absolutely slaughtered, more than pretty much anyone else. He was then injured for months on end. He's had a pretty shit time lately tbh.
I've never really been one for homing in on particular players and rambling on about the same things over and over again, but there's a lot about the Young signing that I find frustrating. I was moaning about his potential capture for days on end leading up to the day we signed him, and was terrified we were about to make a completely pointless signing on someone who was playing at a similar sort of level to Downing for parts of his Villa career (I'm thinking that last season whereby Downing was actually statistically more productive from what I remember). Definitely saw a squad player - perhaps even a pretty good player - at some point last year, but reading recently about these wages and what he's cost just brings me back to the view that it was essentially a very poor signing on many levels. Our team is suffering enough with our insistence on playing 2 central midfielders without having someone so lacking in expression as Young in the team, and given his age I'm not entirely convinced this is going to change too much.
Even assuming he does hit the brief heights he did last year when everyone else was on form, I'm not convinced that player is good enough to start for this United team and compensate for the issues to be found in the team elsewhere.
Even assuming he does hit the brief heights he did last year when everyone else was on form, I'm not convinced that player is good enough to start for this United team and compensate for the issues to be found in the team elsewhere.
Caution and over-reliance. That's what it boils down to for me.
As long as we temper our expectations of Ashley Young, I wouldn't worry too much about his form. He's been woeful on some occasions, but more of the time he's a reasonably adequate cog in the United machine.
If Valencia can regain top form, Young can pick up the scraps that Tony leaves for him and do a few good things. But if we expect Young to do heavy lifting for us and bail us out of difficult positions, we're going to be sorely disappointed.
If Valencia can regain top form, Young can pick up the scraps that Tony leaves for him and do a few good things. But if we expect Young to do heavy lifting for us and bail us out of difficult positions, we're going to be sorely disappointed.
Possibly, but for me i think there is more to it than that. We got Queiroz in specifically for a fresh perspective regarding Europe. Had we not done so, would we have ever seen the new approach he helped implement that served us so well over our most successful ever period?
For me, i am seeing no evidence of us moving in a new direction as we looked to do when we brought in Queiroz. We seem to be just sticking with what SAF has always done best, which is 4-4-2. The concern for me, is we are still sticking by that principle despite it not really suiting the players we have.
Sometimes to make a definitive change you need fresh insight, i don't believe we have that, and when you don't have any new ideas, you naturally keep to what has served you best in the past.
It seems likely we will lose Nani over Young. Talk about shooting yourself in your foot.
When you spend a huge amount on a player, you should expect him to be regularly capable of making a difference. That is not too much to ask surely.
If he and Nani are suffering regular inconsistency, then you either look at the players or the system in my view. Look at when they played well, and under what conditions to pinpoint the problem. Valencia is consistent in our 4-4-2, but when he is off we suffer because of inconsistency on the other flank, and a lack of creativity and goal threat through the middle.
I think we should be looking at a system that gets the best out of what we have and 07's clip from last year, shows that when we have players who can carry the ball into advanced areas our 'wingers' were receiving the ball far closer to goal and nearer the box, and enjoyed their best form because of that.
4-4-2 has done little for Nani, and even less for Young. It doesn't help the midfield, exposes the defence, and makes our attacking slow and one dimensional at times. We need to change if we want to improve, ratherthan stciking with a system that does little for anyone other than Valencia really.
I just wish he'd stop running like a pantomime horse.
Agreed and as highlighted earlier, we thought what we saw at the beginning of last season was something new but turned out to be short-lived. I hope we return to that but like you said, currently there doesn't really seem to be any indication of that. More so, we're trying to shoehorn our new signings to our old 4-4-2 setup. That is madness to me. We need to move forward. Fresh insight would definitely bring some progress but at the end of the day, the buck stops with Fergie. I think this upcoming month could be telling in the direction of this team. Once it gets to the business end of the season, we usually don't change tact.
He actually runs abit like a chimp. That kind of weird hunched over 'I've just stole your wallet' gallop.
Feel for him, it's clear the fans don't think he's United quality. He had a good first season for us and has struggled badly so far this season, he needs to step it up sharpish and we really need to get Nani to sign that contract.
Kill the cnut
He didnt though did he. Started well at West Brom, had a blinder (as did everyone else) in the Arsenal 8-2, Spurs Away and Swansea home. 4 games.
Kill the cnut
What the feck?
As bad as Rooney was tonight, and he was bad, Young didn't deserve any minutes.