Good WC will increase the price as well.
Sergej Milinkovic Savic
- Thread starter R'hllor
- Start date
That escalated quickly!
Of the clubs mentioned as those interested I hope he goes to Real Madrid.The dream midfielder. It would be quite a statement if we managed to sign this man literally ahead of everyone else, because every club in Europe and maybe in China must be behind this guy signature.
That scout we signed from Juve is probably behind this.
I don't understand people not wanting to sign him due to PP similarities.
Our midfield barring PP and Matic is woefully lacking in any quality. We should be after any top tslents in those positions. He's young powerful with an eye for goal.
Our midfield barring PP and Matic is woefully lacking in any quality. We should be after any top tslents in those positions. He's young powerful with an eye for goal.
If recent history post-SAF has taught us anything, it’s that we should not neglect investing in midfield.
Very impressed with him this season. Bags of talent and everything he does is silky smooth. Will be disappointed if he doesn't sign for us.
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Practically Pogba with a better attitude. Would gladly sell PP and sign this guy with change to reinvest elsewhere.
It's not that hard to understand, though. Signing Milinković-Savić when we have Pogba in the team would be like Liverpool signing Lampard in lieu of Alonso or Mascherano - two players that helped elevate Gerrard to some of his highest levels of performance. It would be an enterprise fundamentally fraught with risk from the beginning - and an almighty gamble for what will almost definitely be the new transfer record for central midfielders. Now, the gamble might pay off - and those that are skeptics of a potential move might be proven wrong in the long run, but we haven't even figured out the best role for Pogba after almost 2 seasons, and adding Milinković-Savić on top of that existing conundrum might create more questions than answers.
That £100 million or whatever it takes to sign Milinković-Savić could be better allocated towards more coherent fits - for both - bringing out the best in Pogba, and improving our structure in midfield. And identifying the type of players Pogba should play with in a midfield-3 isn't even that hard - one passer who can organize the team, and one hard-working box-to-box or defensive midfielder - that ensures Pogba doesn't have to drop back to collect the ball over and over again, and gives him the freedom to express himself because the midfield setup is fairly sound from an organisational and defensive standpoint. It's a combination that's proven over time as well: Milan with Pirlo (passing organizer) + Gattuso (hard-working ball winner) + Seedorf (more disciplined and industrious than Pogba - but someone who frequently drifted wider and was a factor in attack for Milan), Redondo (passing organizer) + Karembeu (hard-working and mobile defensive midfielder) + Seedorf again, Alonso (passing organizer) + Mascherano (defensive midfielder) + Gerrard (freedom to attack), Pirlo (passing organizer) + Vidal (hard working box-to-box who also scored with aplomb as a bonus) + Pogba (drifted wider and had some freedom to attack), etc.
If Milinković-Savić is paired with Pogba, either or both will have to make some concessions - which might inhibit them from performing at 100% from an offensive sense (that's quite blatantly the forte of both of these players), much like Lampard and Gerrard for England when ideally, only one of them should have started at a time with Scholes (passing organizer) and Hargreaves/Carrick. Simply signing someone without having a proper scheme for the future is what led to situations like Verón-Scholes in the past (Verón had other issues as well, to be fair, and never truly settled in - but he was a less than ideal fit with Scholes all things considered). Likewise for Milinković-Savić when we have Pogba - some players just aren't very good fits with existing players at the club, despite their obvious quality.
The only way I can envision them in the same team and performing at a level that's close to their potential best at this moment in time is with the type of 442 diamond Valverde has used at Barcelona over the season with Milinković-Savić in the Paulinho role and Pogba going wide à la Iniesta (not an exact comparison player-for-player - but Pogba has experience as a wide-ish midfield from his Juventus days):
Of course, Mourinho is not going to train the same high-level passing networks because he prefers more simplicity and verticality - those are some of his core ideologies in midfield and attack, but the basic 442 diamond setup should work with a more direct approach as well. In that sense, it could even be compared to a variant of Atlético with Pogba and Milinković-Savić in roles that are a wee bit similar to Koke and Saúl, except Pogba and Milinković-Savić would be more offensively oriented than the Atlético duo.
Very nice post by @Invictus. I probably think the same(though can't write with that eloquency) and that's why think that a midfielder like Toni Kroos would be a better fit. I'd like us to replicate that Barcelona midfield three with Matic playing the Busquets role, Pogba playing the Iniesta role and a new midfielder playing the Xavi role.
Also I'm not saying that Matic/Pogba are similar in quality to Busquets or Iniesta before any smartass pipes up and says I'm overrating the United player.
Also I'm not saying that Matic/Pogba are similar in quality to Busquets or Iniesta before any smartass pipes up and says I'm overrating the United player.
As good as he is, we do not really need him. Pairing SMS and Pogba together is akin to the Gerrard Lampard conundrum. Let's go for balance in midfield rather than star dust.
Furthermore, the money required for this guy would be insane. A better way to spend the budget would be on fullbacks and maybe 2 CMs who would not make us break the bank.
Furthermore, the money required for this guy would be insane. A better way to spend the budget would be on fullbacks and maybe 2 CMs who would not make us break the bank.
Great post as usual always insightful and highly informative from what I can gather from your posts is that you are quite an expert on Italian league, so that brings me to my question for you how good is the Barella kid with whom we were linked some time earlier could he take one one of the possible midfield spot if Mourinho decides to go for three man midfield next season. What kind of midfielder is he and is he ready for the step up.
Oh no, I'm not a Serie A expert by any means, so all the opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. As regards Barella, from limited viewing — he comes across as a relatively well-rounded and multi-purpose box-to-box player. A wee bit like young De Rossi (or Conte in his playing days for Juventus) in that he's fairly tenacious, seems like a natural ball-winner, and plays with a lot of desire while defending or bursting into the final third. Doesn't have the greatest finesse on the ball though - more of a fair passer than an excellent one, his press-resistance isn't always tested in Serie A, and doesn't score a lot of goals yet despite getting into goods positions given his aggressive box-to-box style, but he definitely has a lot of potential and could develop into a solid midfielder - someone who could excel with Pogba if he's developed properly. That said, his tendency to rush into tackles in Verratti-esque fashion is rather worrisome - might well be a non-issue in the long run, but it could lead to disciplinary issues and wear and tear over time as he picks up cumulative injuries. Dunno about him being a target at this moment in time, either - reckon Fabián Ruiz (Real Betis) would be a better signing for this United team - more developed, has refined positional awareness, and better on the ball while providing good workrate from the heart midfield - albeit not as combative as Barella. Would liken him to a personal favorite in Saúl given the respective styles of play and Ruiz's versatility (centrally or out wide), except Ruiz is a classier passer than Saúl. Could be an astute signing for only €30 million.
Thanks for detailed analysis on Barella hopefully we are keeping track of him as well as Fabián Ruiz who seems great prospect based on your description, it's about time we show some imagination in our Midfield acquisitions rather than going for obvious targets.
Jose asked Pogba to do bit pressing and our fans went nut. The truth is your team have to work together be it on attack or on defense. You can't have a player who think he's too good to do a particular "dirty" job unless he's messi or ronaldo.
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Wot.The fans went nuts over Jose asking Pogba to play as a defensive midfielder against Spurs
Still know nothing about this lad as I haven't watched Lazio this season.
Is he really that good or is the hype train misleading people? There is a player every season who is very good but the more he's mentioned the better the hype seems to make them, even with half the time people who mention them in conversation haven't seen much of them.
Also, surely he's not as good as Pogba as some have mentioned.
Is he really that good or is the hype train misleading people? There is a player every season who is very good but the more he's mentioned the better the hype seems to make them, even with half the time people who mention them in conversation haven't seen much of them.
Also, surely he's not as good as Pogba as some have mentioned.
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They dont know shit
really really good, young, very physical, excellent skills
Not on Pogba's level in terms of top potential but he seems to have less flair and more grit. He's a player that I imagine Mourinho will love. Almost a Matic/Pogba hybrid in a sense. He could really compliment them in a 4-3-3. Pogba RCM, MSM RCM, Matic CDM.
Power, skill, passing, tackling and an eye for goal in all 3 of them. Really could work nicely.
We just HAVE to build around Pogba. If we had Roy Keane I’d sell him as he may frighten PP. Beckham would need to go as PP may be jealous of superior crossing, Giggs too good at running at people.... As for Cantona? The two wouldn’t work back hard enough....
Why are people so concerned with PP here? If Mourinho is as good as I think he is, surely he’d be able to sort it. Scholes wasn’t the best defensively but was the best CM I’ve ever seen. The issue with Pogba (my favourite current player) is that he either has no discipline or has been given freedom to do as he likes, and judging by recent events I’d say it’s a discipline issue. Shame he messes about bloody dancing rather than focusing on his talent, as on his day he’s brilliant.
Why are people so concerned with PP here? If Mourinho is as good as I think he is, surely he’d be able to sort it. Scholes wasn’t the best defensively but was the best CM I’ve ever seen. The issue with Pogba (my favourite current player) is that he either has no discipline or has been given freedom to do as he likes, and judging by recent events I’d say it’s a discipline issue. Shame he messes about bloody dancing rather than focusing on his talent, as on his day he’s brilliant.
Sergej Milinkovic-Savic breaks silence on Manchester United transfer rumours
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...r-news/man-utd-news-milinkovic-savic-14341713
"It’s nice when people are talking about me," Milinkovic-Savic is quoted as saying by La Gazzetta dello Sport. "But I don’t place too much importance on these things. I’m happy at Lazio and am feeling good here for now, but then we will have to see."
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...r-news/man-utd-news-milinkovic-savic-14341713
"It’s nice when people are talking about me," Milinkovic-Savic is quoted as saying by La Gazzetta dello Sport. "But I don’t place too much importance on these things. I’m happy at Lazio and am feeling good here for now, but then we will have to see."
Are you serious? I would trade Pogba for any of those 3 at the same age without a single doubt. You just mentioned 3 of the greatest players in our history, Pogba has done nothing compared to any of those 3.
Why can't we sign 2 MF's, for example Jorginho, to sit behind Pogba and SMS, to dictate the game?
He's obviously not no
Did you seriously not sense the sarcasm in his post?
This guy is completely different to Pogba. Only thing in common is height and the fact they play in midfield.
He's not as gifted as Pogba nor has the same capacity to accelerate and bring the ball forward with an impressive stride. Savic is more tactically astute though and gets into scoring positions far better than PP and it's his main asset, along as his physical prowess. Besides they have different types of movements in midfield. The Serbian is more a classical box to box with vertical runs whilst Pogba likes to roam around more freely but not advance as much. Savic could be a great asset and would compliment Matic and Pogba very well.
It might be a bit to ate to make a reasonable deal. I've been impressed since the beginning of the previous season but he was too cheap for Woodward back then.
He's not as gifted as Pogba nor has the same capacity to accelerate and bring the ball forward with an impressive stride. Savic is more tactically astute though and gets into scoring positions far better than PP and it's his main asset, along as his physical prowess. Besides they have different types of movements in midfield. The Serbian is more a classical box to box with vertical runs whilst Pogba likes to roam around more freely but not advance as much. Savic could be a great asset and would compliment Matic and Pogba very well.
It might be a bit to ate to make a reasonable deal. I've been impressed since the beginning of the previous season but he was too cheap for Woodward back then.
Well not really, he mentioned how Pogba is his favorite player, but then went on a rant about the dancing so I'm not sure it was sarcasm, he goes on the extremes this guy.
It's probably sarcasm, but it's best to check those kinds of comments.
No offense @MassiveMorgan
Didn't elevate the team to quite the same heights in the league standings though.
I really take issue with this idea that we have to have one passer, one presser, one DM etc. To of the very best teams in recent years, Barca and the current City, utilise their best passers, those most comfortable on the ball, in midfield. De Bryune, Silva, Xavi and Iniesta are not players we'd traditionally associate with being central-ish midfielders in this country.
Pogba is our best player when picking the ball up from deep, problem is he doesn't have midfielders comfortable on the ball playing between the lines ahead of him (maybe Sanchez now) so is forced into long balls or a simple sideways pass. He's also our best player at receiving the ball in congested midfields however we don't have the defenders capable of threading passes into him. The one thing Pogba misses is a similar player capable of interchanging with him through a game, making and receiving passes whilst under pressure. SMS or Veratti would be my picks right now (and De Bruyne). I think Pogba and SMS would be more than the sum of their parts.
That setup just doesn't seem right to me, mate. Could very well work like a charm under a manager who's an expert midfield organizer in a high-possession setup, but the odds will be stacked against them under current management because Mourinho prefers to play football in a different way that has worked very well for him over the years, and I reckon the structure will get over-run against good high-pressing teams. If we are to sign Jorginho, the third midfielder should ideally be in the mold of Davids/Gattuso/Kanté as opposed to Milinković-Savić because a high-intensity terrier will help us in the press and counter-press and dislodge balls for Jorginho and Pogba (who are good enough as a tandem in terms of controlling games or providing a punch from midfield) - aside from doing a staggering amount of running work in transitions and the defensive phase.
Milinković-Savić has good workrate for someone who's fairly good in terms of technique, but I think we can all agree that he's far from the mold of the aforementioned trio, among others. Someone like Gattuso was nowhere close to the ability of a Lampard of Ballack, but he was a delightful fit with Pirlo and Seedorf, much more so than the former duo would have been - and crucial in terms of balance as an irrepressible hellhound who would figuratively “cover every inch of ground — every blade of grass”, so it's more than just signing the best possible midfield options in terms of overall quality without considering the setup as a whole, and then hoping they develop high levels of chemistry and communication and forge an almost intuitive understanding as regards positioning.
Alternatively, consider Fletcher's role for our mid to late 2000s team, and the effect his absence had in 2009:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thefootballtacticsblog/2011/05/how_manchester_united_can_beat.html
I reckon we need an agile midget over another midfield giant. Someone who holds onto a ball easy with great technical ability. Another Scholes if you will.
Thiago(Bayern), Iniesta(Barca), Silva(City), Modric(Real), Verratti(PSG), Pjanic(Juv).. all top teams have one
Thiago(Bayern), Iniesta(Barca), Silva(City), Modric(Real), Verratti(PSG), Pjanic(Juv).. all top teams have one
Does anyone think maybe the problem is Matic?
I’ve nothing against him but I wonder if the plan is to sign two first pick midfielders and have Matic as rotation/tactical option.
I know we spent £40m on him in the summer but is that so much, these days, for someone who’d still likely play a lot.
It’s then about which two new signings would compliment each other, and Pogba.
I’ve nothing against him but I wonder if the plan is to sign two first pick midfielders and have Matic as rotation/tactical option.
I know we spent £40m on him in the summer but is that so much, these days, for someone who’d still likely play a lot.
It’s then about which two new signings would compliment each other, and Pogba.
We should just sign the time bandits for rotation.I reckon we need an agile midget over another midfield giant. Someone who holds onto a ball easy with great technical ability. Another Scholes if you will.
Thiago(Bayern), Iniesta(Barca), Silva(City), Modric(Real), Verratti(PSG), Pjanic(Juv).. all top teams have one
That is quite possible. He's never been all that fast or mobile, and is probably forced to cover more territory than he would like when paired with Pogba. I get Jose's affinity to him, as he does stabilize the midfield, but it seems we can't press as high when we lose the ball deep in the other end. If Rojo wasn't injured late last season, it's possible we would've plumped for 2 CM's, but we had to get cover in the form of Lindelof which reduced the transfer budget.
Whether Savic will fill that hole, I can not say. Seems we're due for a massive change in the midfield, unless Jose can actually bring out the best/find use of Axel/Andreas/McTominay. McTominay might be Matic's successor, so maybe 2 B2B mids (one mature, one developing) could do the trick. Crazy to think of spending upwards of 300 mil in 3 summer transfer windows on CM's if it's 2 this year. Most likely to easily pass 200 mil at least. Heck, Savic alone looks to be 95mil at least.
Belgian newspapers reporting, based on a Sky Italia article apparently, SMS will become the second most expensive player in the world. They have rejected an offer of 70million € in the summer, but a European top club will offer 180 million€. Probably bullsh*t.
180 million
He's indeed very talented, just dunno how he could set up with Pogba, if SMS could be made into a holding one, more defensive one with the skill he has he would be a brilliant player, Pogba is too athletic to sit deep but Savic seems a bit too slow to play box to box. Ideally we would be after someone like Seri.
Worth noting that stylistically, these sides are very different to us - City keep the ball as well as anyone in Europe at the moment and Guardiola's Barcelona were perhaps the best possession-based team of all time. When you're routinely keeping 70%+ possession in games, the need for having multiple ball-winners in the side drastically diminishes. Guardiola has previously said "I am not a coach for tackles."
This is not the case at United under Mourinho. Atletico, Leipzig and Monaco are better approximations for what Mourinho is trying to do and they're not sides that regularly line up with two creative passers with little ball-winning ability in midfield.
Don't think this is the case for most. The majority would rather a 'controller' (there's probably some fancy Italian term for it) that can dictate play. We already have a dynamic playmaker (mezzala) in the form of Pogba and a destroyer in the form of Matic, so to stop all of the creative responsibility being forced on Pogba, someone else should be there to also playmake and set the tempo from a slightly deeper position as well as support Matic in defence. This would allow Paul to roam more, not having to come too deep to retrieve the ball. From what I've watched of SMS, he's more similar to a mezzala than a controller and so, with both him and Pogba in the team, one would have to go against their natural instinct to attack and drop deeper at times to defend and start off attacks rather than provide the killer pass or the late run into the box as they both prefer. I'm not sure how SMS would fair in the deeper role, so I don't know if a system where they alternate between the roles throughout the game would work (I could imagine them getting in each other's way), but I feel it would be an experiment that isn't worth the risk.
I think the Matic of 2-3 years ago would be more than capable of providing defensive cover for SMS and Pogba in front of him but nowadays he's not as mobile as he used to be. Still a brilliant and vastly important player ofcourse but he needs someone next to him rather than 2 attacking focused midfielders in front of him. Time and time again we've seen him isolated in midfield this season due to Pogba being negligent with his defensive duties. I don't watch SMS week in week out so does anyone that has watched him think he has it in him to provide a bit of cover whist still contributing going forward or is he basically another Pogba?