SMS is a similar player to Pogba yes, which IMHO is a good thing. We have no alternative to Pogba, except playing two static midfielders like Matic and McTominay, or fielding a hard-working-but-average Herrera. That means Pogba's got too little competition really. Maybe signing someone to compete with Pogba would relight his flame and make him work harder. He'd be effectively replacing Fellaini which would be an upgrade for us anyway. Then sign someone who can play a pass to replace Carrick and that's our midfield sorted.
Sergej Milinkovic Savic
- Thread starter R'hllor
- Start date
Good point and agreed.
The problem is that SMS would probably cost 70-80 mill pounds. So he won't be a backup to Pogba.
And if you have seen SMS play, he too kind of walks around like Pogba, he isn't the most mobile but has better positioning defensively.Not to mention he plays for Lazio in a much more advanced role, even as a #10 at times.
If we intend to play with a DLP,we would need midfielders who can keep the ball and press the opposition.
If we intend to play a Pogba - SMS - Jorginho midfield, both Pogba and SMS will be walking around, mostly near the opposition box as neither are very good at pressing or defensively.That would expose Jorginho or whoever is playing as DLP and our midfield would get over run quite easily. And where would that leave Matic, who has been very good this year.
That is why a Carrick replacement doesn't make much sense.If we buy a DLP, are we going to play Matic - DLP double pivot with Pogba as #10? How good is Pogba as #10? Not very from what I've seen, even Mou said he's a B2B.
The best thing to do IMHO is to go all out and buy the best available #8 who can control games,who can press and pass well, who can tackle and assist thus relieving Pogba of the pressure of being the sole creator and also lessening his defensive duties. And for a backup DM, either buy a young prospect or mold McTominay into a Matic like CDM.
I agree we have no competition for Pogba but IMO SMS is not the answer to our midfield problems
Mmmm not sure about that. Doesn’t run much from what I’ve seen.
I agree that SMS is not that player. But who is? He's got to press, win the ball, dictate tempo and assist, so he needs to be mobile, a strong tackler, a great passer and creative. That's going to be a pretty small shortlist - Verratti/Thiago? Banega/Parejo/Fabian Ruiz might be more realistic/budget options, I suppose.
Rodri would be a great option as the backup CDM (assuming he hasn't already signed for Atletico).
Yeah it's a very short list, those kind of players are special, a dying breed.
Vidal or Nainggolan or someone of that ilk. Even that Barella kid who we were linked to looked like he has all the attributes
Verratti could be really good but not sure he's available
Keita would have been nice.
Maybe Kovacic
We don't have someone to press the opposition, all our midfielders are giants who lack agility, the only real pressing midfielder we have is Herrera and he seems to be on his way out
If we’re going to lose Carrick and Fellaini as well as sell Blind and Pereira then we need to bring in two central midfielders at least as we’d only have 4 midfielders in Pogba, Matic, Herrera and McTominay unless we’re planning on using Fosu-Mensah as a midfielder which is where I think he’d be best anyway.
If our options for next season are Pogba, Matic, Herrera, McTominay and Fosu-Mensah then that’s a lot of diversity as every one of them is a completely different type of midfielder so to add to that you’d probably want to go with Kroos or Verratti. I really like the look of Savic but if he’s genuinely the exact same player as Pogba then Kroos would be my first choice followed by Verratti so every one of our midfielders is different to the other.
If our options for next season are Pogba, Matic, Herrera, McTominay and Fosu-Mensah then that’s a lot of diversity as every one of them is a completely different type of midfielder so to add to that you’d probably want to go with Kroos or Verratti. I really like the look of Savic but if he’s genuinely the exact same player as Pogba then Kroos would be my first choice followed by Verratti so every one of our midfielders is different to the other.
This guy is a monster, he has everything. Exactly the sort of player we should go for and are heavily linked to only to miss out and see him become truly world class elsewhere. Sign him at all costs.
Sounds like we're still replacing Roy Keane.
Agreed.
I would like us to get a midfielder that can potentially play with and without Pogba in the team.
Someone whose got a wide passing range, good with the ball in tight spaces and also competent defensively. I haven't seen SMS play, can anyone tell me if he matches the above?
Someone whose got a wide passing range, good with the ball in tight spaces and also competent defensively. I haven't seen SMS play, can anyone tell me if he matches the above?
I have seen Lazio few times now, I am not convinced he will be a good fit in our system. He is very similar to Pogba, and I would say a weaker version of Pogba. He is primarily a CM with attacking mindset even though he makes fair contribution defensively. People tend to ignore the fact that Sergej plays with 2 midfielders alongside him. Yes, he has an eye for goal, but he seems to be lacking that finese in passing. If you closely see his passing, its more like that of attacking midfielders than a CM.
When Pogba was missing earlier in the season, our team struggled a lot taking the ball from defense to midfield and midfield to attack. So, I felt Sergej would provide that would be a good player to play 1 #6 and 2 #8s. After watching Lazio's few full matches , I do not think he would be a good fit alonside Pogba, do not complement him in anyway and add to that, Sergej would cost a fortune. What we need is two players in midfield, one like Modric and another like Vidal.
We have been primarily using 4-2-3-1 meaning we need a better version of Mctominay. Adding Sergej will just add more question marks in the team than answers. If we want to add creativity in the team, we should rather add a new #10.
When Pogba was missing earlier in the season, our team struggled a lot taking the ball from defense to midfield and midfield to attack. So, I felt Sergej would provide that would be a good player to play 1 #6 and 2 #8s. After watching Lazio's few full matches , I do not think he would be a good fit alonside Pogba, do not complement him in anyway and add to that, Sergej would cost a fortune. What we need is two players in midfield, one like Modric and another like Vidal.
We have been primarily using 4-2-3-1 meaning we need a better version of Mctominay. Adding Sergej will just add more question marks in the team than answers. If we want to add creativity in the team, we should rather add a new #10.
Roy Keane was a goal scoring attacking midfielder at Forest. Just sayin'...
Savic has played deeper plenty of times. He's currently being asked to be the attacking fulcrum because he's one of the most talented players at his club. Not because it's the only, or best, role he's capable of.
Really not sure we need another big-ticket signing with a big ego like SMS.
I'm sure there are a few people that were aware of him before last season (good on them), but I think the majority of people have started noticing him in the last 12-18 months. Having a year or two's great form, your value jumping to 100m (supposedly) will really over-inflate a players ego. Do we need another prima-donna running around?
I haven't got any great suggestions, but these discussions still remind me of Spurs signing Eriksen for 8.5m a few years ago. Absolutely crazy.
I'm sure there are a few people that were aware of him before last season (good on them), but I think the majority of people have started noticing him in the last 12-18 months. Having a year or two's great form, your value jumping to 100m (supposedly) will really over-inflate a players ego. Do we need another prima-donna running around?
I haven't got any great suggestions, but these discussions still remind me of Spurs signing Eriksen for 8.5m a few years ago. Absolutely crazy.
And that's exactly how things would have stayed if big time Charlie didn't acted as a cnut during the FA cup final against Everton. That forced SAF to revise his plans, moving Keane in a DM role and Scholes in a MC role.
You don't switch a player's position for the fun of it and you certainly don't play a player out of position because you like collecting stars. That's the trouble with United this days, we've got wingers as full backs, strikers as wingers, no 10s as DMs and wingers. Then we wonder why Pogba is not doing well, why Fellaini lack the discipline to play in a DM role, why Mata can't beat players like wingers do etc.
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He's got decent passing range and shown that he could potentially be a very good passer of the ball, isn't very good in tight spaces as he relies on outmuscling the opponent rather than keeping the ball under close control so it gets nicked away from him quite easily at times, and is very much like Pogba in defence in that he doesn't have the best positioning and, when their attack loses the ball, he jogs back like Pogba does. It's not as big a problem for Lazio as it is for us because Lucas and Parolo are excellent defensively and their CBs and GK are all consistent, too.
It will cost most likely considerably more than that, easily over 100 if there are 2-3 top teams competing for him as it seems. He is an incredible player although he is still untested at international level, but I doubt he would play along with Pogba . Maybe you could loan us back Pogba for a couple of years and buy SMS
I'd much rather us buy 2/3 players in multiple positions of need, then spunk £90m+ on an unproven player. For example: Seri-£35m, Tierney-£25m and Umtiti-£53m would cost about £110m and that for me would be much better business.
Savic is an absolute unit. Good feet for a big man but not sure he would have the pace or time on the ball in the Premier League compared to Serie A. Certainly an upgrade on Fellaini that's for sure.
I agree.
Yeah I agree 100%, and I'm a big fan of SMS have watched every game that Lazio have been on TV this season and I just cant see him and Pogba playing in the same midfield effectively.
As you said I think this window is a pretty pivotal one and I'd hope the board has learnt from past seasons and we get actual value for money, just like your example which would be brilliant business sorting 3 positions for the foreseeable future rather than 1 who we might struggle to accommodate.
It's funny that you talk about unproven players and then argue that we should sign Tierny, who is 20 and has only played in a pub league. I would also pass on Seri because he would not solve our issues in midfield IMO. Not to say Milinkovic-Savic is the real deal but I would take him over Seri every day of the week. I do agree we should try lure Umtiti over if there is a chance, but there's no reason we can't have Umtiti and a marquee signing in midfield.
I'd like to see how a midfield of Pogba - Matic - SMS worked and think it could be great against the lesser sides. I'd also bring in a DLP aswell though for those games against the bigger sides were we need to hold on to possession better.
The exact type of player we'd need if we only wanted to bring in 1 midfielder is very rare and at this moment I think they are all unavailable.
Moussa Dembele at spurs would be perfect, I don't know how much Thiagos defensive side of the game has developed, but see lots of people suggesting him for that DLP role. Kroos doesn't have the mobility we'd need if only signing him.
Basically we're looking for a peak Modric, Vidal, Marchisio type player and I don't think there are any out there at the moment.
The exact type of player we'd need if we only wanted to bring in 1 midfielder is very rare and at this moment I think they are all unavailable.
Moussa Dembele at spurs would be perfect, I don't know how much Thiagos defensive side of the game has developed, but see lots of people suggesting him for that DLP role. Kroos doesn't have the mobility we'd need if only signing him.
Basically we're looking for a peak Modric, Vidal, Marchisio type player and I don't think there are any out there at the moment.
I think we should take a risk and sign Vidal on say 2+1 year contract.
He should be available for 20-25 million and I believe has 2 years at the top left.
Plus the competitive nature of the PL, company of Sanchez and Pogba, Mourinho's strict training will make sure he is much more motivated and focused.
I mean it's a risk, yeah but if you ask me it's a risk worth taking especially if he's available for 20 million. And if he manages to settle in well, he would be perfect for us
The unproven player point was in relation to price. £90m+ on an unproven player is a risk, but £25m for a player that has both international and champions league experience is not as much of a risk. If SMS cost £40/50m, I'd happily take him, as I do rate him as a player (although very similar in style to Pogba). However, these last few seasons we have been spending between £150-200m. If, SMS is going to take the majority of our transfer budget, we will have to sacrifice on quality in other positions. So, my point was that I'd rather buy a cheaper, quality midfielder, if it freed up funds to improve 2/3 other areas that we need.
On Seri, he is technically very sound and a very good passer of the ball. We have majorly lacked in creativity this season when Pogba was injured. I haven't a clue about what Mourinho is looking for in a midfielder, but I hope technical ability is up there in importance.
Sure if he was available that cheap it would be a no brained, but I really doubt that he is. Can see them asking for around 40-50m for him and at that point you have to ask if it's really worth it. Prices have gone crazy lately and I can't see that suddenly stopping, especially in a world cup year.
agree with this
big money is no guarantee of impact as Pogba has demonstrated. We broke our transfer record and we aren't getting anywhere near the best out of him
All 3 you mentioned are unproven too though. But I agree with the better value available point.
I think the point being that having 3 unproven talents for that money is better than 1, if you're going to get 1 player for that type of money they need to be proven.
to be honest though, we have bought "proven" players and they have also failed. ADM being an example.
How is Umtiti unproven?
In this league, he is.
Ah this EPL proven nonsense again.
From our own top transfers, can you explain Mikhitaryan, ADM and Veron if you do not believe in EPL proven ''nonesense''.
Yup, things go wrong and new players might not perform in a new or different environment. There are more than enough players, who've come from a different league and have performed for us or other clubs.
I don't think so, IIRC they bought him for 35 million 2-3 years ago.
He's in the last year of his contract, not to mention bayern have many options in the midfield, especially with Goretzka coming in.
If we want him he should be available for a max of 25 mill
I think Savic and Matic could BOSS our Midfield and let Pogba loose.
I haven't seen this lad Savic play. My biggest concern with Matic in any team is who picks up the runners from midfield. Matic covers space well but doesn't have the legs to track runners. As we know Pogba doesn't track either. Does Savic have the legs to cover runners. We are caught in a dilemma in our mid right now. We need creativity, we need a general, someone who dictates games but as I say we need that defensive cover as well. A good old fashioned box to box is what we need, if that lad has those attributes then that would help our mid big time.
He can play defensive and attacking midfield, Box to Box..
Sergej Milinkovic-Savic Characteristics
+ Strengths
Long shots-----Very Strong
Defensive contribution---Very Strong
Through balls---Strong
Aerial Duels-----Strong
Dribbling--------Strong
Concentration-- Strong
- Weaknesses
(Player has no significant weaknesses)
Sergej Milinkovic-Savic's Style of Play
- Likes to dribble
- Gets fouled often
- Likes to do layoffs
- Indirect set-piece threat
Yeah fair point, the price is a bit much I agree.. Again with Seri, I don't doubt his technical ability but from the 3 or 4 times I have seen him play he doesn't offer any sort of defensive presence. Maybe it's a small sample size, but considering Pogba is also a liability off the ball I worry about having Matic cover both him and potentially another midfielder who isn't carrying their weight.