Sean Longstaff

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3KDré said:
Mane was a ‘midtable’ signing who is now one of the best wingers in the world.
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Mane played for Southampton for 2 seasons scoring 21 goals. This kid hasnt even played half a season. There is a gamble involved with every transfer but this is just expecting to win the lottery.
I don't agree with the Galactico transfer policy we've been following but why can't we follow a middle path. A kid from the championship another who has barely played a dozen games in the PL. Obviously I'm assuming both signings are for the first team and not squad depth. Given how many positions we have to fill I doubt we have the cash to address depth right now.
 
Rish Sawhney said:
Since when? We've hardly ever done that apart from raiding Arsenal that one time.
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Valencia from Wigan
Berbatov from Spurs
Tevez from West Ham
Rio Ferdinand from Leeds

We've done it quite a few times, just not so much recently because its more difficult with the amount of money in the Premier League now.
 
Suv666 said:
Mane played for Southampton for 2 seasons scoring 21 goals. This kid hasnt even played half a season. There is a gamble involved with every transfer but this is just expecting to win the lottery.
I don't agree with the Galactico transfer policy we've been following but why can't we follow a middle path. A kid from the championship another who has barely played a dozen games in the PL. Obviously I'm assuming both signings are for the first team and not squad depth. Given how many positions we have to fill I doubt we have the cash to address depth right now.
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It looks like we are very interested in Maguire and Bruno Fernandes, and both are probably closer to the midle path that you are describing.
 
0le said:
It looks like we are very interested in Maguire and Bruno Fernandes, and both are probably closer to the midle path that you are describing.
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£80m for Maguire seems more like a Galactico signing to me. Fernandes though, I've not seen him play a lot fits the bill yeah, could turn out to be our Bernado Silva.
 
Not a bad player one bit. Though you always worry about how will it turn out in the future.

We have examples of Jones, Ox, Walcott, clyne, Welbeck, and also of the likes of Carrick, Kane, sterling.

A starting midfielder role in a midfield revamp?. Scouts have got to be very sure of him to think of him being the guy for united to support the likes of Pogba fred or any other signings we make and shield the defense.

Confused on this one. How many games has he played?
 
0le said:
It looks like we are very interested in Maguire and Bruno Fernandes, and both are probably closer to the midle path that you are describing.
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I'd be worried if ole is very interested in Maguire.
 
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Suv666 said:
Mane played for Southampton for 2 seasons scoring 21 goals. This kid hasnt even played half a season. There is a gamble involved with every transfer but this is just expecting to win the lottery.
I don't agree with the Galactico transfer policy we've been following but why can't we follow a middle path. A kid from the championship another who has barely played a dozen games in the PL. Obviously I'm assuming both signings are for the first team and not squad depth. Given how many positions we have to fill I doubt we have the cash to address depth right now.
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Klopp signed Wijnaldum and everyone thought he was crazy. Paid a lot of money for a guy who was pretty average for Newcastle. He ended up becoming one of their best players.

It’s about the profile of the player not his reputation, that’s what Klopp and Poch have built their teams on. If we are signing guys who don’t have big reputations but possess certain qualities we lack and will add a lot to our team you should be very happy about that
 
Saf94 said:
Klopp signed Wijnaldum and everyone thought he was crazy. Paid a lot of money for a guy who was pretty average for Newcastle. He ended up becoming one of their best players.

It’s about the profile of the player not his reputation, that’s what Klopp and Poch have built their teams on. If we are signing guys who don’t have big reputations but possess certain qualities we lack and will add a lot to our team you should be very happy about that
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Liverpool rebuilt this side making signings like Wijanldum, Mane, Matip, Gomez, Milner, Robertson, Salah, Van Dijk, Fabinho, Keita, Alisson etc. With the exception of Milner on one side and Gomez on the other side they were all in their mid 20s. Some did not have big reputations but, they had actual reputations.
 
Patrick08 said:
Klopp is a very experienced manager.
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And? Klopp and Poch have literally laid out the blueprint for how you turn a struggling top 4 contender into a genuine giant and you don’t want to copy that? What’s managerial experience got to do with anything? We are talking about identifying a plan, creating a policy to help develop sustainable success. There’s really only one way to do it, we tried galactico and it didn’t work. This is what we have to do now.

There’s no such thing as a middle ground. Middle ground is just a cop out to make people feel like we can have our cake and eat it too, sign long term players but also benefit in the short term. It doesn’t work like that
 
Patrick08 said:
Who consistantly fell short in champions league stage?
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The 2011 CL final started Valencia (Wigan), Park (PSV), Fabio (youth transfer), and Hernandez (Guadalajara).

We also recently brought in so called world beaters like Di Maria and Falcao and did feck all. So the there really is no case to be made on how well fans know a new player - they could do well or flop, we wont know until we try them.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Liverpool rebuilt this side making signings like Wijanldum, Mane, Matip, Gomez, Milner, Robertson, Salah, Van Dijk, Fabinho, Keita, Alisson etc. With the exception of Milner on one side and Gomez on the other side they were all in their mid 20s. Some did not have big reputations but, they had actual reputations.
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Agreed. Liverpool and City have been very good at transfers, but hindsight is always 20/20 and if you were to remove Pep and Klopp and replace them with Moyes and LvG, you would almost certainly get different results. So at the end of the day, players are only on fraction of a broader equation.
 
Saf94 said:
And? Klopp and Poch have literally laid out the blueprint for how you turn a struggling top 4 contender into a genuine giant and you don’t want to copy that? What’s managerial experience got to do with anything? We are talking about identifying a plan, creating a policy to help develop sustainable success. There’s really only one way to do it, we tried galactico and it didn’t work. This is what we have to do now.

There’s no such thing as a middle ground. Middle ground is just a cop out to make people feel like we can have our cake and eat it too, sign long term players but also benefit in the short term. It doesn’t work like that
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When did either of them sign a player for the first team that would be similar to signing Longstaff?
 
Suv666 said:
Midtable signing along with experienced world class players. You cant expect a kid who hasnt played a single season in the PL to perform on a high level week in week out. Its madness. Fergie relied on young talent, yes but there were figures in the dressing room to mentor them. Zero margin of error present right now at Utd. Even the likes of Rashford who is a top talent gets slaughtered on here because we dont have the time to nuture and polish young talents. Longstaff and James will be ridiculed for every mistake they make which is normal for a young player.
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Fergie bought most of his talent from other clubs. And most of them weren't feel good hollywood signings to make the fan base happy. They were instead players he knew would work in the system he wanted to deploy.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Liverpool rebuilt this side making signings like Wijanldum, Mane, Matip, Gomez, Milner, Robertson, Salah, Van Dijk, Fabinho, Keita, Alisson etc. With the exception of Milner on one side and Gomez on the other side they were all in their mid 20s. Some did not have big reputations but, they had actual reputations.
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Forget Alisson, Keita and Fabinho for a second because Liverpool got to a champions league final without them. They were a damn good team before those signings.

Wijnaldum, Mane, Gomez, Milner, Robertson. All those guys were signed with a level of reputation most United fans would scoff at. If we were in for them our fans would be distraught. Van Dijk, Salah and to an extent Matip are the only guys who we would’ve actually wanted. And that’s ignoring the guys already there who became key players like Henderson and Lovren who we also would definitely have not deemed good enough. That side is 80% filled with guys who before Klopp United fans would never in a thousand years want us to sign.

Once they became good they were able to sign more luxury players like Fabinho but you only get there once you’ve got the solid foundations. We’re clearly at the foundations stage not the luxury signings stage
 
Keeps It tidy said:
When did either of them sign a player for the first team that would be similar to signing Longstaff?
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The point is it’s the profile of the player that matters and definitely both managers have played players over bigger names and trusted players who weren’t proven and they showed their abilities.

Especially Poch, you can point to Kane, Alli, Winks, Skipp, Foyth, Walker-Peters etc all being given a chance. He didn’t sign them but they are players of a similar type to Longstaff who definitely got their chances. For Klopp I’d point to Henderson, Alexander-Arnold and to an extent Robertson too (played most of his career in the championship)
 
Saf94 said:
The point is it’s the profile of the player that matters and definitely both managers have played players over bigger names and trusted players who weren’t proven and they showed their abilities.

Especially Poch, you can point to Kane, Alli, Winks, Skipp, Foyth, Walker-Peters etc all being given a chance. He didn’t sign them but they are players of a similar type to Longstaff who definitely got their chances. For Klopp I’d point to Henderson, Alexander-Arnold and to an extent Robertson too (played most of his career in the championship)
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So a bunch of players from the academy that were not even signed, a player who was signed as a teenager and a player who was already there when Klopp got there. And Robertson had two full seasons in the Premier League before joining
 
Keeps It tidy said:
So a bunch of players from the academy that were not even signed, a player who was signed as a teenager and a player who was already there when Klopp got there. And Robertson had two full seasons in the Premier League before joining
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Mate it’s a very small sample size but plenty of players become breakout stars after very little experience. Sancho this season. Joe Gomez at Liverpool (there’s your Klopp example). Tanguy Ndombele played 2 games before Lyon signed him and he had an amazing first season. Guendouzi at Arsenal. Zagadou at Dortmund who they signed from PSGs B team and had no first team experience he had a great first season.

Is that enough examples for you or do you need more?
 
Saf94 said:
Mate it’s a very small sample size but plenty of players become breakout stars after very little experience. Sancho this season. Joe Gomez at Liverpool (there’s your Klopp example). Tanguy Ndombele played 2 games before Lyon signed him and he had an amazing first season. Guendouzi at Arsenal. Zagadou at Dortmund who they signed from PSGs B team and had no first team experience he had a great first season.

Is that enough examples for you or do you need more?
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Almost all were teenagers. Longstaff is 21. And Ndombele had 33 appearances for Amiens
 
Saf94 said:
And? Klopp and Poch have literally laid out the blueprint for how you turn a struggling top 4 contender into a genuine giant and you don’t want to copy that? What’s managerial experience got to do with anything? We are talking about identifying a plan, creating a policy to help develop sustainable success. There’s really only one way to do it, we tried galactico and it didn’t work. This is what we have to do now.

There’s no such thing as a middle ground. Middle ground is just a cop out to make people feel like we can have our cake and eat it too, sign long term players but also benefit in the short term. It doesn’t work like that
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Well I agree with your stand, just pointing out that he will have no time to ease into the role here unlike klopp and his signings. All the management have to be totally convinced of him to be neglecting other talents out there who have certain qualities too though may be more pricey.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Almost all were teenagers. Longstaff is 21. And Ndombele had 33 appearances for Amiens
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You’re really nitpicking here. Like insanely nitpicking. What is your actual point? Kane was 21 when he broke through but doesn’t count because he didn’t move teams? Doesn’t count to what? Some crazy list of criteria a player has to have to satisfy you that he can do well?

I have proven that inexperienced players can have breakthrough seasons if they have the talent. And that players without big reputations can do well if they have the right qualities. Longstaff fits both of those. What criteria are you looking for still?
 
Why are so many people upset with potential signings like this? Our squad has been littered with players over the last few seasons who are over the hill, have very little resale value and are looking for their last big contract.

At this age, this sort of price, you're probably going to get better performances (unlikely to be worse when compared to people like Sanchez, Matic etc), more likely to improve, on a lower salary, better resale value, maybe a little more desire (hard to be sure or prove) and more likely to be happy with being rotated.

It's a low risk/high reward signing. Why not go for it? If we get to the end of the window and we don't supplement signings like James and maybe longstaff with a couple of players of greater experience/immediate ability then I'd be worried but that remains to be seen.
 
Saf94 said:
You’re really nitpicking here. Like insanely nitpicking. What is your actual point? Kane was 21 when he broke through but doesn’t count because he didn’t move teams? Doesn’t count to what? Some crazy list of criteria a player has to have to satisfy you that he can do well?

I have proven that inexperienced players can have breakthrough seasons if they have the talent. And that players without big reputations can do well if they have the right qualities. Longstaff fits both of those. What criteria are you looking for still?
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Yeah wanting to see at least a full season of quality play before the club signs him is completely unreasonable.
 
Saf94 said:
Mate it’s a very small sample size but plenty of players become breakout stars after very little experience. Sancho this season. Joe Gomez at Liverpool (there’s your Klopp example). Tanguy Ndombele played 2 games before Lyon signed him and he had an amazing first season. Guendouzi at Arsenal. Zagadou at Dortmund who they signed from PSGs B team and had no first team experience he had a great first season.

Is that enough examples for you or do you need more?
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How can you compare Sancho to Longstaff? Sancho was the golden boy of a very talented English generation. Gomez was bought at age 18 for 3mil. Guendouzi was bought for 7mil at age 19. Ndombele was loaned for 2mil euros with an option to buy. Essentially were given a 1 year trial period, virtually risk free.

Poch has played Skipp, and Winks, but they were from the academy.

This is very different to Longstaff. We're paying a lot of money for a punt. Like I said, why not give Garner a chance if we're after the next Skipp or Winks? There is no money involved there. At least with James, he has physical tools that none of our youth prospects have. And based on all of our young talents, Chong is probably the one most favor the least.
 
Mibabalou said:
Ahh I knew that.

Would he have played for any of those youth teams?
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Probably not. He barely has any experience at the PL level and so would need to standout at the Championship level, or be in with prior reputation at youth level. Not even our own Tuanzebe made it and he's had a very good season at age 21 in the Championship and was involved for England's youth teams.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Yeah wanting to see at least a full season of quality play before the club signs him is completely unreasonable.
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It's not. At the same time, if the club/manager has strong faith in a footballers qualities, they're not going to wait around for what you want to see. And the constant moaning without seeing the player serves no purpose either. If the club rates this fellow highly, I hope we sign him and he does really well for us.
 
In Rainbows said:
Probably not. He barely has any experience at the PL level and so would need to standout at the Championship level, or be in with prior reputation at youth level. Not even our own Tuanzebe made it and he's had a very good season at age 21 in the Championship and was involved for England's youth teams.
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Longstaff had a successful loan at Blackpool, I believe he stood out at that level.
 
Saf94 said:
Klopp signed Wijnaldum and everyone thought he was crazy. Paid a lot of money for a guy who was pretty average for Newcastle. He ended up becoming one of their best players.

It’s about the profile of the player not his reputation, that’s what Klopp and Poch have built their teams on. If we are signing guys who don’t have big reputations but possess certain qualities we lack and will add a lot to our team you should be very happy about that
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Wijnaldum looks good because of Klopp's system. If we were to sign him he would look just like Fred does for us. I don't think OGS has any system in mind and thats the main problem. The transfer approach seems to be trying to sign British players and not those who fit any sort of plan.
 
https://www.toontastic.net/board/search/?&q=longstaff&type=forums_topic&page=1&sortby=newest

Really effusive praise.

Seems like a bit of a weird signing in that we need a DM now and he has so little experience, whereas James fills a desperate gap in the squad without being a first 11 player. But if Pogba, Herrera and even Fred are leaving, we need 3 new central mids at least so I can't get mad about this one. 25M seems high but his wages will be low.

Does have the look of a solid club servant Ambrosini/Butt type in that he's long-ish and seems to move well and with a decent ballwinning approach and be technically good without maybe being special, but won't really have any feel until I see him more than the 2 or 3 halves of football I wasn't watching him that closely in.
 
I don't mind adding some kids to add numbers to the squad however if our reinforcements this season consist of the likes of Longstaff and James then we can kiss our chances of a top 4 place goodbye.
 
Raoul said:
The players haven't been the problem - the managers, their systems, and ridiculously impatient expectations from the fans are. Fergie has already shown you can win the league with the likes of Smalling, Jones, Young et al, so maybe we shouldn't reflexively sneer at under the radar signings. Some of them will work out, others won't.
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The only thing this proves is that a good manager is capable of doing good things but we do not have SAF now. There would be no lengthy discussion if we had a competent manager okay-ing this signing.
 
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