Seamus Coleman

finneh said:
I think he's a solid player, don't get me wrong. In all fairness in his debut season I thought he could progress to be a great player, likewise the season before last I thought he was finally making really good progress and I thought he might just be a late bloomer (being 25 at the time), however last season he was back to his solid but unspectacular self.

My belief is that he's reached his peak level and that's the level of a solid Premier League full back with the occasional very good spell. That's why I believe the comparison with Young is quite apt (likewise Fellaini). He was one of our better players last season, but if you spoke to the majority of United fans they believe we need an upgrade if we are to compete at the highest level. We need a player whose mid level is that of Coleman's top level; the likes of Azpilicueta, Alves, Zabaleta.

Coleman has never even reached Rafael's peak level during the 12/13 season for instance, let alone reach it at a top European level.
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Coleman reached a better level in Martinez first season than Rafael did in 12/13.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Coleman is better than Carvajal imo. What has Carvajal ever done to be put above Coleman? except be Spanish instead of Irish and play for Madrid instead of Everton. Most of that post is cringe worthy tbh.
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Play extremely well for one of the best teams on the planet as compared to Everton?

I don't know that much about Coleman, but Carvajal is one of the best right backs in the game. Excellent player.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Play extremely well for one of the best teams on the planet as compared to Everton?

I don't know that much about Coleman, but Carvajal is one of the best right backs in the game. Excellent player.
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Yeah, so excellent he can't play for his national side and is being replaced by Danilo at club level.
 
Pretty sure he plays for spain....He's also 23.

He's class considering his age and the level he's playing at, he's better going forward than defending though.
 
You're probably judging Carvajal off that penalty on juve in the semi.

Ask @Vato , he's a quality fullback. Great engine, very good on the ball, tenacious.
 
Sarni said:
He'll compete with Danilo not be replaced by him.
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I disagree. They'll compete at first, then Danilo will take his starting position.
Impulse said:
Is that the same national team who continue to pick Casillas in goal over De Gea? I wouldn't put much stock in that.
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Yeah, if it's Spain.

amolbhatia100 said:
Mata and Herrera don't play regularly for Spain either. Point?
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That they're not good enough to play for Spain, I suppose. In their case, they really aren't.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
You're probably judging Carvajal off that penalty on juve in the semi.

Ask @Vato , he's a quality fullback. Great engine, very good on the ball, tenacious.
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I'm judging him from two seasons of watching Real play. I've watched Coleman play the last two seasons as well. Coleman is the better player.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
I'm judging him from two seasons of watching Real play. I've watched Coleman play the last two seasons as well. Coleman is the better player.
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I haven't stated my opinion Coleman so I'm not arguing against that. But Carvajal is clearly a fine right back.
 
BigDunc9 said:
Coleman reached a better level in Martinez first season than Rafael did in 12/13.
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I disagree. Not to mention Rafael did it against the best in the world in Europe. You can only play well against what's put in front of you... But Rafael had much better in front of him on the whole and dealt with them at least as competently (far more in my opinion).

Mciahel Goodman said:
Coleman is better than Carvajal imo. What has Carvajal ever done to be put above Coleman? except be Spanish instead of Irish and play for Madrid instead of Everton. Most of that post is cringe worthy tbh.
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What has Kroos done to be put above McCarthy? Apart from win trophies; be a key part of a far, far superior squad and generally just be a far more talented player.

If Coleman were Spanish he'd have never played a game for Spain either, so that point is totally redundant. He also wouldn't have played a game for Real Madrid, which is a more pertinent point.
 
Sarni said:
Coleman is very good offensively and solid defensively, Everton are going to ask for an absolute fortune for him though and I'm not sure he'd be much of a value. Fabinho is probably about as good as him and would cost much less, I rate him higher than Clyne though.
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I feel very similar to this. Coleman is better then Clyne but I'm not sure he is a £25million calibre player at the same time. It looks like the RB position is going to be one that we may leave until the very end of the window and rather throw big money at a player like Coleman or just leave it entirely with Valencia playing there again for the season (shudder). The only positive of that is Varela may possibly get an opportunity perhaps.
 
finneh said:
If Coleman were Spanish he'd have never played a game for Spain either, so that point is totally redundant. He also wouldn't have played a game for Real Madrid, which is a more pertinent point.
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Except, you have no idea whether or not that is true. If Coleman were Spanish he might hold their record for appearances for all you know.
 
JoaquinJoaquin said:
I feel very similar to this. Coleman is better then Clyne but I'm not sure he is a £25million calibre player at the same time. It looks like the RB position is going to be one that we may leave until the very end of the window and rather throw big money at a player like Coleman or just leave it entirely with Valencia playing there again for the season (shudder). The only positive of that is Varela may possibly get an opportunity perhaps.
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There are very few right backs available out there though. Coleman, Fabinho and Clyne have all been three realistic targets and it looks like Clyne is going to Liverpool, Coleman is going to cost a lot and Fabinho is rumoured to be going to City. Alves has extended at Barcelona, van der Wiel is nowhere near good enough and I don't see many more.
 
finneh said:
I disagree. Not to mention Rafael did it against the best in the world in Europe. You can only play well against what's put in front of you... But Rafael had much better in front of him on the whole and dealt with them at least as competently (far more in my opinion).



What has Kroos done to be put above McCarthy? Apart from win trophies; be a key part of a far, far superior squad and generally just be a far more talented player.

If Coleman were Spanish he'd have never played a game for Spain either, so that point is totally redundant. He also wouldn't have played a game for Real Madrid, which is a more pertinent point.
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Against a group full of average teams before going out against the first good team you met? Hardly worth bigging up.
 
Sarni said:
There are very few right backs available out there though. Coleman, Fabinho and Clyne have all been three realistic targets and it looks like Clyne is going to Liverpool, Coleman is going to cost a lot and Fabinho is rumoured to be going to City. Alves has extended at Barcelona, van der Wiel is nowhere near good enough and I don't see many more.
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And now that brings up the old question, Shouldn't this be where our scouts come in to it? Surely LVG will of told them this past season to check out Right Back's, and you would think that in the whole of World Football that there should be more then 4-5 candidates to sign for us.
 
JoaquinJoaquin said:
And now that brings up the old question, Shouldn't this be where our scouts come in to it? Surely LVG will of told them this past season to check out Right Back's, and you would think that in the whole of World Football that there should be more then 4-5 candidates to sign for us.
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Probably but maybe we don't want anyone unproven, we've taken our share of punts in late Ferguson years and very few of them turned out to be anything more than average players. This is a situation that blatantly calls for a signing out of the blue though because so-called obvious targets are not really that great.
 
Question to others who may be reading this thread.
How much better is Colemen than Clyne?

I personally do not think Coleman is that far ahead of Clyne and one is going to cost 12.5 million the other probably > 20 million.

I also agree with those who say Rafael on his day is as good if not better than most RB's but he is just not consistent enough.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Except, you have no idea whether or not that is true. If Coleman were Spanish he might hold their record for appearances for all you know.
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Naturally that was an opinion. Your comment about what's Carvajal done that Coleman hasn't was very strange though. Pretty much everything a full back could possibly do to "prove" they were better than another full back, including being a key player in a side that won the most coveted club trophy in the game.

BigDunc9 said:
Against a group full of average teams before going out against the first good team you met? Hardly worth bigging up.
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Over the course of his career Rafael has performed well against the likes of Valencia, Bayern Munich, AC Milan, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid. It's clear we won't agree that Rafael had a better season; but to be honest it's an irrelevant point as if Rafael could stay fit even the biggest Coleman fan wouldn't want us to pay £25m for him to replace Rafael.

RedOldBoy said:
Question to others who may be reading this thread.
How much better is Colemen than Clyne?

I personally do not think Coleman is that far ahead of Clyne and one is going to cost 12.5 million the other probably > 20 million.

I also agree with those who say Rafael on his day is as good if not better than most RB's but he is just not consistent enough.
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My opinion is that he's better than Clyne and to be honest if it were a choice of spending £12.5m on Clyne or £25m on Coleman I'd always go with whoever's better, as we're rich enough not to worry about £10-12m.

However for £25m there will be far, far better right backs over the next couple of years that will be attainable. Likewise there are a handful of right backs at the moment that might be slightly behind Coleman now, but have far more potential than either of them that are attainable right now.
 
finneh said:
Pretty much everything a full back could possibly do to "prove" they were better than another full back, including being a key player in a side that won the most coveted club trophy in the game.
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That's fallacious reasoning. Being at a team that wins a lot, thus winning a lot yourself, does not make you better than a player who has won nothing (or little). Danny Welbeck has played for far better sides, and has won more than Alan Shearer -- I know which one is the better striker.

I'll say it now, Danilo will take that starting position at RB -- Carvajal will be gone by next year. Quote me if I'm wrong and I'll never discuss Real again.
 
BigDunc9 said:
Coleman reached a better level in Martinez first season than Rafael did in 12/13.
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I would agree with that. At worst, they were on par but there is no way that Rafael far eclipsed him or any other such revisionism.
 
RedOldBoy said:
Question to others who may be reading this thread.
How much better is Colemen than Clyne?

I personally do not think Coleman is that far ahead of Clyne and one is going to cost 12.5 million the other probably > 20 million.

I also agree with those who say Rafael on his day is as good if not better than most RB's but he is just not consistent enough.
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I think Coleman is comfortably better than Clyne, personally. Yes, Coleman would cost over the odds and his real value is probably anywhere between the £15m - £20m mark. Funnily enough, for all this debate, I don't see us even bidding for Coleman. This story originated from god knows where and somehow Sky picked up on it.
 
RedOldBoy said:
Question to others who may be reading this thread.
How much better is Colemen than Clyne?

I personally do not think Coleman is that far ahead of Clyne and one is going to cost 12.5 million the other probably > 20 million.

I also agree with those who say Rafael on his day is as good if not better than most RB's but he is just not consistent enough.
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Coleman is better than Clyne. He is also more of the sort of RB I'd like to see is bring in as he is very attack minded, a good thing when we have a less gung-ho LB in Shaw on the other side.

Clyne's advantage is that he is younger, cheaper and English. If I was concerned about getting value then I'd probably opt for him over Coleman. However, if we don't care about value and are just looking for the better player of the two then Coleman is the better choice.
 
A lot of talk about different RB's coming to OT but i've heard nothing about Rafeal. After last season, I'd be utterly surprised if he is in LvG's plans, however, I can't see him being kept on if we are buying another one, yet I there has been absolutely zero about any interest from him anywhere. Valencia and new RB will be the way ahead for next season and rightly so.
I like Coleman and would prefer him to any other reasonable targets that have been mentioned in the press.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
That's fallacious reasoning. Being at a team that wins a lot, thus winning a lot yourself, does not make you better than a player who has won nothing (or little). Danny Welbeck has played for far better sides, and has won more than Alan Shearer -- I know which one is the better striker.

I'll say it now, Danilo will take that starting position at RB -- Carvajal will be gone by next year. Quote me if I'm wrong and I'll never discuss Real again.
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He was a first team player in a team that won a lot, that's the difference. He played almost every game and was a key contributor, the likes of Danny Welbeck were peripheral squad players who won trophies by association. Was he their best player? Of course not, but he did as much as a full back could reasonably be expected to do to contribute. The same could not be said of Welbeck.

Danilo may take his starting position, or he may struggle to adapt to the league, struggle to improve and go the exact same way as Coentrao and end up second choice. I imagine you'd have been saying the same about Marcelo a few years back only to be proven wrong. Either way it'd be good news for us because a top class RB who would be only 24 would become available.

Robbie Boy said:
I would agree with that. At worst, they were on par but there is no way that Rafael far eclipsed him or any other such revisionism.
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No-one has said that Rafael far eclipsed Coleman. They were similar, albeit in my view Rafael was a bit better. However I merely said Coleman has never performed at the level of our current second choice right full back and hasn't performed at that level against the same caliber of opposition. He wouldn't be a huge upgrade and therefore shouldn't be considered, particularly as there are several better options for the £25m/€35m it would take to sign him.
 
finneh said:
He was a first team player in a team that won a lot, that's the difference. He played almost every game and was a key contributor, the likes of Danny Welbeck were peripheral squad players who won trophies by association. Was he their best player? Of course not, but he did as much as a full back could reasonably be expected to do to contribute. The same could not be said of Welbeck.

Danilo may take his starting position, or he may struggle to adapt to the league, struggle to improve and go the exact same way as Coentrao and end up second choice. I imagine you'd have been saying the same about Marcelo a few years back only to be proven wrong. Either way it'd be good news for us because a top class RB who would be only 24 would become available.



No-one has said that Rafael far eclipsed Coleman. They were similar, albeit in my view Rafael was a bit better. However I merely said Coleman has never performed at the level of our current second choice right full back and hasn't performed at that level against the same caliber of opposition. He wouldn't be a huge upgrade and therefore shouldn't be considered, particularly as there are several better options for the £25m/€35m it would take to sign him.
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Absolutely no one is saying that we should sign him for those prices. Rafael is second choice but lets be honest, it's a contentious choice by LvG. Rafael is a far better RB than Valencia but unfortunately due to chronic injury problems, he can't be relied upon. It's also widely accepted that Rafael is a fine player but he isn't available nearly frequently enough. You did insinuate that Rafael was better in the 12/13 season than Coleman in the 13/14 season, which isn't true. There was very little in it and I think Coleman might just edge it but it's subjective. Your nonsense about Madrid and Chelsea having better second choice RB's than Coleman is bizarre. Arbeloa was Madrid's second choice RB last season as Danilio wasn't there. And who is Chelsea's second choice RB? Considering Ivanovic played every single PL game and Azpi is now a LB.
 
Spanish talent is usually bette then british/irish talent. However when a good british/irish talent is available then we should do our outmost (without getting screwed) to get it. 25m for coleman is fair
 
devilish said:
Spanish talent is usually bette then british/irish talent. However when a good british/irish talent is available then we should do our outmost (without getting screwed) to get it. 25m for coleman is fair
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I agree with the british part but I disagree with the 25m being fair, it's not a fair price but we don't really have the choice.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Play extremely well for one of the best teams on the planet as compared to Everton?

I don't know that much about Coleman, but Carvajal is one of the best right backs in the game. Excellent player.
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The trouble with Carvajal is that if he started to reach his potential we'd have the DDG/Real Madrid situation all over again.

At least you know that Coleman wouldn't be looking to move on in a year or two's time.
 
JPRouve said:
I agree with the british part but I disagree with the 25m being fair, it's not a fair price but we don't really have the choice.
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Its fair. Hes EPL proven, hes excellent in attacking and defending and hes relatively young. We havent yet found gaz replacement (who overstayed for 2 years) Lets sort the RB once and for all and get over it
 
devilish said:
Its fair. Hes EPL proven, hes excellent in attacking and defending and hes relatively young. We havent yet found gaz replacement (who overstayed for 2 years) Lets sort the RB once and for all and get over it
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It's not fair PL prices are BS and he isn't even formed in the country, 20m should be his top price. But we are United and we will pay a tax.
 
JPRouve said:
It's not fair PL prices are BS and he isn't even formed in the country, 20m should be his top price. But we are United and we will pay a tax.
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Nothing really got to do with 'being United'. It's clear as day that fees for proven PL talent are over inflated, especially if they are Britsh / Irish. As I said earlier, Charlie Austin is being touted around at £15m! I mean seriously come on. Also, look how much Lallana went for last season. These fees are nothing new. The whole market is an over inflated mess and it's rare teams get really good value.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Coleman is better than Carvajal imo. What has Carvajal ever done to be put above Coleman? except be Spanish instead of Irish and play for Madrid instead of Everton. Most of that post is cringe worthy tbh.
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The only cringe is in your post.
 
The fact that Coleman hasn't 'done it in the CL' isn't that relevant. About 22% of the other 19 teams in the league are CL teams, he has proven himself at least as good as CL right-backs at domestic level over the course of a season before. He's clearly very good. Not sure if he's a £25m player though, but I wouldn't be that upset if we paid it though. Very good right-back.

I want to see Varela brought into the side next season though. He's 22 years old now, it's sink or swim for him and he's a top talent. I don't see him as just a youth team player, he cost a fair bit of money too.
 
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