Fair enough. Like I've said, I do rate Carvajal. Coleman put in Team of the Year performances in 13/14.
Seamus Coleman
- Thread starter Morpheus 7
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Fair enough. Like I've said, I do rate Carvajal. Coleman put in Team of the Year performances in 13/14.
Quit being a prick, i asked a simple question.
sure - based on?
Coleman 2 assists
Carvajal 4 assists
infact check most of the 'offensive' stats (facts only) here:
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/106883/Show/Daniel-Carvajal
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/31826/
He could possibly though. You never know how good these players are until you give them a platform.
It's scary that you would bring a game into an actual conversation about football. Either it's incredibly stupid or I'm old an out of touch. And if you meant it to insult the poster, it massively backfired. Now play nice and remember this is a forum for discussion.
It's also against the forum rules to belittle the poster and not the post. You don't have to put up with it.
Yep, again I don't particularly care for Whoscored primarily because people use statistical matrices and whatever else as a substitute for actually watching players play. Some posters tried convincing everyone that Valencia was the best right back in the league based off of these types of stats.
Stats can quite literally prove anything, if you're selective enough.
He's from a part of Ireland called Donegal. That basically means he doesnt go to ground easily unless struck by a bullet between the two eyes. A concept in La Liga as foreign as Coleman is to you.
I assume flipe was bought to allow rotation between the other 2 fullbacks. With azplicueta covering both sides. ivanovic on the wrong side of thirty and not really having the build to maintain any pace.
heh - ok ok my bad, apologies, not usually my style, just some friendly banter!
Anyway, each to their own, but personally believe based on watching performances and seeing the stats Carvajal is light years ahead of Coleman.
Let's agree to disagree!
To provide competition and to add more squad depth (Arbeloa is getting older and declining further every season). They spent big money on Coentrao also but Marcelo has kept his place (Coentrao still has done a good job when called upon). The strongest teams (Barcelona, Madrid and Bayern) all have very strong and deep squads and take advantage of their financial strength. I have no idea if Danilo will take Carvajal's place (nobody does) but if he does, it is not because Carvajal is not a very good right-back (because he clearly was last season) but rather that Danilo is a right-back of a very high level too. If Carvajal plays at the level that he did last season then it will be very difficult for Danilo (or anyone) to take his place. The only right-back that was arguably better over the course of the entire La Liga campaign last season was Juanfran.
Anyway, Coleman scored 5 goals, had 3 assists in 42 games. Carvajal scored 0 goals, had 5 assists in 43 games. Would seem to back up my opinion that Coleman is better offensively.
Also, Coleman had 5 yellow cards to Carvajal's 17.
The season before, Coleman scored 7 goals, had 2 assists. Carvajal scored 2 and had 3 assists.
Source: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/seamus-coleman/leistungsdaten/spieler/68390/plus/?saison=2013 http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/daniel-carvajal/leistungsdaten/spieler/138927
heh - ok ok my bad, apologies, not usually my style, just some friendly banter!
Anyway, each to their own, but personally believe based on watching performances and seeing the stats Carvajal is light years ahead of Coleman.
Let's agree to disagree!
How many goals has Carvajol scored in the last 2 seasons?
Coleman has 11.
Sounds like he would do an ok job fighting Isis. Is he also good with a ball?
Better at hitting the net than Cavajal by the sound of things.....
We don't have Lukaku up front tbh.
I take your point. But is signing the hotest right back talent really just competition? Barca had adriano, montoya as cover, Bayern bought bernat and have rafinha. All of those players would be considered competitive understudies. Danilo im not so sure. But real must be a completely different club.
I'm actually baffled that people can't get the concept of a player naturally looking better when they play for an elite club. To suggest that Coleman wouldn't get near the Madrid team if he was Spanish, is ludicrous and without any foundation. And it's hardly beyond the realms of possibility that Coleman would improve if he moved to us and stepped it up another gear.
I'm also surprised that people are using last season as a stick to beat him with. He wasn't great but he was solid and consistent and probably warrants an overall 7. That's hardly too poor considering how woeful Everton were. Funny that people seem to forget that he was the best RB in the league the season before. And the gap between himself and Zabaleta is being blown out of proportion by some. I though Zabaleta was fantastic in the 12/13 and 13/14 seasons, but he didn't hit anywhere near those heights last season. Amazing that a players form can suffer if his team are under performing, madness heh. Also Ivanovic was the best RB in the league last season by a mile, so Coleman not being at that level is hardly a travesty. Funnily enough, Ivanovic was with the league winners. There's a pattern here with players form generally coinciding to some degree with their teams form.
Anyone who thinks that Bellerin or Debuchy is better, needs some serious case to back those claims up. I reckon Zabaleta and Coleman are on par, Ivanovic is better and Coleman is currently better than Bellerin. That would make him the second (joint with Zabaleta maybe) best RB in the top 4. Some people have no facts to back up what they say.
I'm also surprised that people are using last season as a stick to beat him with. He wasn't great but he was solid and consistent and probably warrants an overall 7. That's hardly too poor considering how woeful Everton were. Funny that people seem to forget that he was the best RB in the league the season before. And the gap between himself and Zabaleta is being blown out of proportion by some. I though Zabaleta was fantastic in the 12/13 and 13/14 seasons, but he didn't hit anywhere near those heights last season. Amazing that a players form can suffer if his team are under performing, madness heh. Also Ivanovic was the best RB in the league last season by a mile, so Coleman not being at that level is hardly a travesty. Funnily enough, Ivanovic was with the league winners. There's a pattern here with players form generally coinciding to some degree with their teams form.
Anyone who thinks that Bellerin or Debuchy is better, needs some serious case to back those claims up. I reckon Zabaleta and Coleman are on par, Ivanovic is better and Coleman is currently better than Bellerin. That would make him the second (joint with Zabaleta maybe) best RB in the top 4. Some people have no facts to back up what they say.
I'd agree with this.
Nobody knows if Danilo will be a substitute or if he will take Carvajal's place yet. And yes, Madrid do have a penchant for spending big (and even massively overspending) and doing whatever it takes in their relentless pursuit of whatever player they want generally (with some exceptions of course).
Like I said, nobody knows if he will be competition or if he will take Carvajal's place. My point was that even if he does take his place, it does not mean that Carvajal is not a good right-back like you implied (because he was clearly very good last season and like I said, along with Juanfran, the best right-back over the course of the entire La Liga campaign).
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neither do United our top scorer had 14 last season. Coleman would be scoring for fun here!
Not really no,if we want to reach certain level and stay there,he (just like Clyne/Valencia) wont cut it,so he is not great as any other options out there if you put Carvajal among those options for example.
He won't, teams play differently against United, but if he signs for us he will be a real threat on the wing.
I just don't think he is as big a liability as is made out like I say. He may be a good crosser but I wouldn't say great. I just think if we can't do better we should wait.
Listen if LVG goes for him i'll support him but we are allowed to question these things. It's not that we can't afford it more the fact once we spend that we have to settle for that player being the only one we will get in that position for a few years. Again I think we could do better even if it means waiting.
We shall see though i'd bet this won't happen.
It was a joke, Real fan saying Carvajal scores very little due to having great forward players and not the likes of Lukaku.
I missed that one.Why wouldn't Coleman look better than Valencia in Europe? He is actually a better fullback than Valencia and there's absolutely no reason that wouldn't translate to CL football too (at least once he's had a bit of experience with it).
I got teleported here by amolbeammeupscotty. Blame him!
Also if Carvajal gets mentioned so much it shouldn't come as a surprise.
Fwiw, I'm sure Coleman is a great Rb when he's scoring and assisting that much for a smaller club like Everton.
The assists stat-off between Coleman and Carvajal is a bit pointless when you consider who the latter is crossing to, he has a lot better prospect of his chance creation being converted with Ronnie and Benzema on the end than Coleman does with Lukaku and Naismith.
And yet Coleman leads with assists.
I disagree, read it again.
People can't seem to grasp that playing in a better team, with better teammates, will no doubt help one player look better than another. I know it's a mental concept and all.
As for all this CL rubbish; how can anyone say with any sort of conviction that Coleman wouldn't be good in Europe? He's a regular international that's been a first team regular in the PL for years now, not to mention that he has plenty of EL games under his belt. The whole 'hasn't played in the CL' is completely overstated on here. I mean look at some of the dross in the group stages FFS. And it's not as if Coleman hasn't played numerous games at OT, Stamford Bridge, Anfield and the Emitates. I forgot that part of the spine of one of our most successful teams; Vidic, Carrick and and Rooney were all seasoned CL regulars when they arrived.
They play in different teams, Carvajal isn't a main offensive asset for Madrid, when Coleman is a focal point of Everton attacks.
To put both into perspective, I imagine Everton use the fullback overlap more than Real in their attacks, but the amount of overall attacking Real do along with the big bump in quality of the forwards being supplied surely at least highlights that Coleman is productive.
That's true.
Wait so having a guy in your team who regularly scores more goals in a season on his own than Everton do shouldn't make it easier to get more assists? Especially when your team is capable of beating 15 of the others teams in the League by 5/6 goals.
I won't claim Coleman is better than Carvajal or vice versa because I've never had the chance to see Coleman play in a comparable team to Madrids. I could see Coleman coming here and being top class though. However for people who find it laughable that Coleman is every bit as good as Carvajal then they are idiots. It ain't like we are comparing Welbeck to Messi or anything like that.
I am a bit baffled that so many seem to rate him so low and also don't seem to think he can step up, even though we have seen plenty of times before that players who have proven themselves at mid table teams can make the jump as the rise to playing wiuth better players. It also seems many forget we won the PL and CL in 2008 with Wes Brown as our RB.