@prath92 Weird that you would pick out that Chelsea match.
From goal.com:
From some other site called sports mole:
From goal.com:
From some other site called sports mole:
Seamus Coleman
- Thread starter Morpheus 7
- Start date
Shouldn't probably bring it up but Ramos can play RB also. I suggested it on the Ramos thread that he could be cover for when Valencia was injured or was in need of rest and of course people flipped the lid!
Thats my thought too. We play so narrow in defence it makes sense why ramos would even start at RB because he would almost act as a CB then. This is pretty similar in to the way I think van gaal wants mcnair to play at RB.
I just dont see why we would take a year of building a narrow shape and then buy a player who relies on width. We domt play with valencia because he is the next cafu; we play him because he is currently the best we got. Replacing him with an almost identical player makes little sense to me.
Shouldn't probably bring it up but Ramos can play RB also. I suggested it on the Ramos thread that he could be cover for when Valencia was injured or was in need of rest and of course people flipped the lid!
Heh!
I think given our CB pairing has been crying out for an experienced winner I imagine Jones and McNair would cover RB before Ramos was used there in truth.He did get an assist but he was a part of their defence which was all over the place. Offensively he was decent tho but he was poor defensively. I think the second goal (scored by Matic I think) originated from a pass from Willian on the right he wasn't closed down (akin to Moreno letting bellerin go for the first arsenal goal in the 4-1 match). I can see why they thought he was the best player though considering how poor was everyone else. I remember the last goal especially where someone misplaced a backpass and costa scored from that.
No he had an ok game all things considered. Calling him out for that match isn't really giving your argument any substance. Defensively he was actually decent in that match and Hazard had one of his quieter games. I doubt unbiased journos had any agenda when giving out those ratings. He definitely had poorer games than that one over the course of the season.
So lets just not count sub appearances, FA Cup, League Cup and Community Shield. Hmm... skewing stats to fit an agenda you said?sure didn't I know you were going to say that
Think I'd prefer to go off starts rather than sub apps that could be in injury time for example. They are counted individually for a reason sully. If you want, go dig run through those sub apps and you'll see how effective they are.
Good for you..anyway the PL experience is worth the difference
I was talking about how he lost the winger which he did when failing to close down willian and later hazard.
By the way mail gave him a 6 for the match. Which he deserved in all honesty
A 6 is fine with me. So he was basically average? Not a game to call him out as being woeful by any stretch of the imagination. Just lazy and presumptuous as Everton were dire in that match. Should we slate Tony V every time we lose, even if he had a good / decent game? Come off it.
Yes true though I think more credit should be given to moyes for their success. And of course Martinez wasn't helped that they got very old. I mean jags Is 32 distin 37 Alcaraz 34 baines 31 Howard 34 Barry 32. They really need more younger defenders to help stones
Not saying don't count them, but I highly doubt either made much of an impact in those sub apps. Most would be late on and they'd have minimal effect on the bearing of a game, usually.
For those debating over the Everton v Chelsea match: Highlights below. Quite the game, Enjoy
Nah that's one of the first games that I remember considering that it was super entertaining. As I said I don't want Valencia in the 11 anymore than anyone else but buying someone just for the sake of playing an actual RB doesn't really serve any purpose imo.
I have seen very little of Fabinho but he looked good defensively in those. He seems to be a converted CB because he doesn't bomb forward a lot and is also a backup DM. He and kondogbia dominated arsenal midfield in the first leg. Of course his fees and whether he would adapt to the PL or if he will be yet another over rated Brazilian fullback I don't know
For those debating over the Everton v Chelsea match: Highlights below. Quite the game, Enjoy
Any point to make?
I don't think anyone is crying out for us to sign Coleman so I mean, it's no big deal. Just silly criticising Coleman for one game when he was generally quite good. As for Fabinho, he was excellent against Arsenal in an unfamiliar position but I've never actually seen him play as a RB so I can't comment on how good he is or isn't.
On this match?
Looking back at the highlights he was decent, got the assist but then scored an OG. Wasn't his best match and probably not his worst (whatever match that'd be). About a 6.5 seems about right, only going on those highlights and seeing one or two reports when I was trying to dig that out.
Really just one of them freak matches, usually get a few of them every season.
I wouldn't wince at £20 million. It's pricey, but the right back position needs sorting out once and for all.
Was that the Chelsea game where Costa and Coleman were needling each other throughout? All the more reason to sign him imo. Was looking forward to Costa v Ramos as it was.
So again, you're agreeing with me but doing so in bizarre fashion. Yes, he was decent in that match so criticising him for it is lazy and presumptuous, like I said. Everton's back two that day were atrocious. It was indeed one of those freak matches and even if Coleman had of been woeful that day, it was a complete one off kind of game.
Ugh, no idea what that is about. Honestly don't.
You ask for my opinion and I give it and then you come out with that! Your just coming across as argumentative for the sake of it, there is nothing "bizarre" about my answer to you.
I think your reply that I've highlighted is for Prath92 and not me
Least it seems that way.I wasn't critiscizing him. I saw a lot of posts here which said that Valencia is very poor defensively and that Coleman is a very good defender. So just were giving some examples off the top of my head
He had a decent game in both United games too but my point was that he isn't any upgrade. I didn't mean to be rude to you if you felt that way.
Cheers. And by the way
Meaning Coleman is the only one remaining
He will sign and you will all love him. His attitude along with his ability will make him a instant fans favourite . I don't even see what the problem is with paying a couple of million over the odds for him, you have the money and he is probably the best right back available to you and he will improve your team a lot more than Shaw will for a good few years anyway.
Very good points made there man & fair play to ya sayin it - considering he might leave the Toffees & come to us. He's certainly way better than Clyne i might add too..
Don't see this one happening at all.
You think the club will sell him to United?
If he pushes for a move and we get a good deal. I can see both happening.
Interesting, so you reckon Coleman will want the move? How much do you think the club will want for him?
Coleman will be very good for us. 26 years old. At his peak. Will sort that position for a few years to come.
Ugh, no idea what that is about. Honestly don't.
You ask for my opinion and I give it and then you come out with that! Your just coming across as argumentative for the sake of it, there is nothing "bizarre" about my answer to you.
I think your reply that I've highlighted is for Prath92 and not me
No I just have no idea why you posted the video from the Everton v Chelsea match. Considering your input in this thread thus far, I assumed it was to highlight the fact that Colman had a poor game (which he didn't). My bad if that wasn't the case.
I wasn't critiscizing him. I saw a lot of posts here which said that Valencia is very poor defensively and that Coleman is a very good defender. So just were giving some examples off the top of my head
He had a decent game in both United games too but my point was that he isn't any upgrade. I didn't mean to be rude to you if you felt that way.
And by the way
Meaning Coleman is the only one remaining
You haven't been rude at all, no. My point is that he didn't have a bad game at all against Chelsea and that's the wrong game to call him out for. He definitely had better and worse games than that last season. I actually feel he contained Hazard quite well in that match and gave Chelsea serious problems going forward. The blame that day would definitely be attributed to the back two and their universal ratings for that match is telling.
It's nothing personal. It just grinds my gears as I've seen people call him out for this game before when attempting to play him down, criticise him etc. But it's only done in a lazy presumptuous manner as people remember Everton got hammered so assume that Coleman was woeful. It's quite the contrary as he had a decent game.
Anyhow, I wouldn't read too much into Twitter stuff. I have no idea whether I would even want Fabinho as I haven't seen the guy play in his proper position. Against Arsenal he showed good positioning and tackled well, so I guess they are key attributes for a fullback who excelled playing out of position.
As I have said, if we sign Coleman I'll be happy but if we don't, then we don't. We will definitely pay over the odds for him but sure that's part of buying established PL players. Despite what some are saying, he will be a huge upgrade over Valencia. After all, Valencia is a former winger masquerading as a fullback. He performed decent enough last season but his play in the final third is often shocking. We definitely need a specialist RB this summer. Who that will be remains to be seen.
Being helpful
No, I don't think that was a particularly bad game for him. Wasn't great per say either though. I'd not really judge him on it myself because it was one of them freak matches that happens.
Hope there is something in these latest links. He's been my preferred choice as new right back since Danilo got snapped up by Madrid.
Being helpful
No, I don't think that was a particularly bad game for him. Wasn't great per say either though. I'd not really judge him on it myself because it was one of them freak matches that happens.
Indeed, he wasn't great but he got an assist and defended well against Hazard. So overall he would probably warrant a 7 at best and a 6 at worst. It's just lazy criticism. Oh look, Everton got hammered so I'll just assume that Coleman played woeful. Unfortunately it's untrue. As I said, he had far worse games than that last season so picking that one out is a moot point.
To me it would be similar to the Ashley Young signing. It'd be a decent signing in theory but in practice we'd be looking for another upgrade in 2-3 years, if we actually aspire to compete in Europe and win titles. For the fee that Everton would demand (£25m) it seems like a pointlessly small short term upgrade to me.
The criteria shouldn't be "is he better than Valencia", but "is he as good as Azpilicueta, Ivanovich, Zabaleta etc". He isn't even as good as the second choice RB at clubs like Madrid or Chelsea, which is the level we need to be looking to.
Personally if it were a choice of sticking with Valencia/Rafael for another season (or until January) and signing someone like Carvajal next Summer; or signing Coleman for £25m now, I'd choose the former.
The criteria shouldn't be "is he better than Valencia", but "is he as good as Azpilicueta, Ivanovich, Zabaleta etc". He isn't even as good as the second choice RB at clubs like Madrid or Chelsea, which is the level we need to be looking to.
Personally if it were a choice of sticking with Valencia/Rafael for another season (or until January) and signing someone like Carvajal next Summer; or signing Coleman for £25m now, I'd choose the former.
This seems very harsh. Is he really that bad? I've argued in this thread that 25 million should give you one of the best around, but "not even second choice" seems excessive. Isn't he supposed to be really good going forward?
Thought he was much younger!
Would like Coleman always a preferred choice for me. I just think any negotiations with Everton are almost as bad as Spurs. Maybe we can chuck Evans in as part of the deal as Distin is 37 and Stones is still young. Also with Cleverley and Gibson at Everton Evans would have some friends!
I reckon 15m and Evans would be enough.
I reckon 15m and Evans would be enough.
Coleman is very good offensively and solid defensively, Everton are going to ask for an absolute fortune for him though and I'm not sure he'd be much of a value. Fabinho is probably about as good as him and would cost much less, I rate him higher than Clyne though.
I think he's a solid player, don't get me wrong. In all fairness in his debut season I thought he could progress to be a great player, likewise the season before last I thought he was finally making really good progress and I thought he might just be a late bloomer (being 25 at the time), however last season he was back to his solid but unspectacular self.
My belief is that he's reached his peak level and that's the level of a solid Premier League full back with the occasional very good spell. That's why I believe the comparison with Young is quite apt (likewise Fellaini). He was one of our better players last season, but if you spoke to the majority of United fans they believe we need an upgrade if we are to compete at the highest level. We need a player whose mid level is that of Coleman's top level; the likes of Azpilicueta, Alves, Zabaleta.
Coleman has never even reached Rafael's peak level during the 12/13 season for instance, let alone reach it at a top European level.
Coleman is better than Carvajal imo. What has Carvajal ever done to be put above Coleman? except be Spanish instead of Irish and play for Madrid instead of Everton. Most of that post is cringe worthy tbh.