Seamus Coleman

Coleman was excellent in the 13/14 away game. I think he would combine very well with Mata and Herrera.

Ive seen very little of either Coleman or Carvajal to state who is better, from the little I have seen Carvajal is a decent reliable player (real fans?) and has probably played at a higher consistent level. Coleman on the other had looks like he could be a game changer for us.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Absolutely no one is saying that we should sign him for those prices. Rafael is second choice but lets be honest, it's a contentious choice by LvG. Rafael is a far better RB than Valencia but unfortunately due to chronic injury problems, he can't be relied upon. It's also widely accepted that Rafael is a fine player but he isn't available nearly frequently enough. You did insinuate that Rafael was better in the 12/13 season than Coleman in the 13/14 season, which isn't true. There was very little in it and I think Coleman might just edge it but it's subjective. Your nonsense about Madrid and Chelsea having better second choice RB's than Coleman is bizarre. Arbeloa was Madrid's second choice RB last season as Danilio wasn't there. And who is Chelsea's second choice RB? Considering Ivanovic played every single PL game and Azpi is now a LB.
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There are several people saying he'd be a good option for £25m. Plus even those merely saying he'd be a good option are implying that it would be for this price, as Everton aren't going to accept £15-20m. I do believe Rafael was better 12/13 than Coleman 13/14, but that's just my personal opinion. I thought Rafael was our third best player and a key factor in a team that walked the League title.

If Ivanovich were injured Luis would play on the left and Azpilucueta would play on the right. Ergo Chelsea have 2 better right backs than Coleman. Madrid have just bought Danilo who most people on this forum were favouring over Coleman until he was snapped up by Madrid. Both of those teams go into next season with 2 better players capable of playing RB.

Vato said:
Carvajal has easily been the best RB in La Liga for two years in a row. He's put in a few Motm performances, which is hard for a RB in a team with Ronaldo, Bale etc.

That said, I have no idea who coleman is so I can't compare.
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That just about sums it up.
 
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Comparing Colemans assists to Caravjal is pretty daft, namely because the latter plays in a far superior team who attack far more regularly.
 
R'hllor said:
Not really no,if we want to reach certain level and stay there,he (just like Clyne/Valencia) wont cut it,so he is not great as any other options out there if you put Carvajal among those options for example.
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This is an opinion yes. However credible is debatable. I remember Moreno was bigged up before his Liverpool move. However, Coleman is PL experienced, settled in the country, used to shite weather :) will have more loyalty, is one of the best in the league, would not be a weak link in any Defence........makes alot more sense to me
 
Using goals and assists isn't the only way to determine how good a full-back is offensively. There is more to it than that. Evra and Cole didn't rack up the assists if I remember correctly but they were clearly very good going forward and very comfortable with the ball at their feet. They stretched the play and created space for others and could hold onto the ball in tight areas in the final 3rd due to having an incredible touch for a full-back. As a result of this, they could draw in opposition players and then release a teammate in space down the flank after having created room for him and taking several opposition players out of the game in addition to having the ability to beat a man when there are not much places to go.

Evra, Cole and Carvajal (not that I consider Carvajal to be as good as Evra or Cole in their prime) have a better touch and are more comfortable in tight areas than Coleman IMO and I think have more to offer more going forward than he does (although they are not as important to their teams offensively as Coleman is to his due to their teams possessing more quality in attack so they did not have to be called upon as much). With that said, Coleman is clearly a better goalscorer and I do not think that the full-backs that I mentioned could score as many goals as he has even if they tried.

At clubs with more firepower (like Madrid or Barcelona) that aspect of Coleman's game would not be so badly need though IMO. They would require him to stretch the play and to create space for others like I mentioned earlier because clubs with the riches and assortment of talent like Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern amongst others face parked buses quite regularly and teams set up to stop them playing and to deny them space. Coleman's ability to navigate his way out of tight situations would be tested far more for such teams if he were to be relied on to help out in the final third as unless you are at Alves level in terms of going forward (or even Marcelo's which he clearly isn't), it is more likely that you will be required to help create room and to draw opponents out of position and to stretch the play rather than provide the cutting edge in the final third.

In a congested area, the fullbacks that I mentioned would be more likely to be able to beat a man and to come out of the situation with the ball still at their feet than Coleman IMO. Coleman is clearly very good going forward but I do not think he is as comfortable as the players that I mentioned when there is less space and as a result I feel he would be much less adept at helping his team out offensively in the areas that I mentioned earlier in my post. All IMO of course.
 
Comparison threads are annoying as hell, but this brings it to a whole new level of pointless.
 
Raul Madrid said:
Using goals and assists isn't the only way to determine how good a full-back is offensively. There is more to it than that. Evra and Cole didn't rack up the assists if I remember correctly but they were clearly very good going forward and very comfortable with the ball at their feet. They stretched the play and created space for others and could hold onto the ball in tight areas in the final 3rd due to having an incredible touch for a full-back. As a result of this, they could draw in opposition players and then release a teammate in space down the flank after having created room for him and taking several opposition players out of the game in addition to having the ability to beat a man when there are not much places to go.

Evra, Cole and Carvajal (not that I consider Carvajal to be as good as Evra or Cole in their prime) have a better touch and are more comfortable in tight areas than Coleman IMO and I think have more to offer more going forward than he does (although they are not as important to their teams offensively as Coleman is to his due to their teams possessing more quality in attack so they did not have to be called upon as much). With that said, Coleman is clearly a better goalscorer and I do not think that the full-backs that I mentioned could score as many goals as he has even if they tried.

At clubs with more firepower (like Madrid or Barcelona) that aspect of Coleman's game would not be so badly need though IMO. They would require him to stretch the play and to create space for others like I mentioned earlier because clubs with the riches and assortment of talent like Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern amongst others face parked buses quite regularly and teams set up to stop them playing and to deny them space. Coleman's ability to navigate his way out of tight situations would be tested far more for such teams if he were to be relied on to help out in the final third as unless you are at Alves level in terms of going forward (or even Marcelo's which he clearly isn't), it is more likely that you will be required to help create room and to draw opponents out of position and to stretch the play rather than provide the cutting edge in the final third.

In a congested area, the fullbacks that I mentioned would be more likely to be able to beat a man and to come out of the situation with the ball still at their feet than Coleman IMO. Coleman is clearly very good going forward but I do not think he is as comfortable as the players that I mentioned when there is less space and as a result I feel he would be much less adept at helping his team out offensively in the areas that I mentioned earlier in my post. All IMO of course.
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Within our system Mata and Herrera draw in the opposition and release the ball as opposed to the full back. coleman would be excellent when released in space.
 
Vato said:
I got teleported here by amolbeammeupscotty. Blame him!

Also if Carvajal gets mentioned so much it shouldn't come as a surprise.

Fwiw, I'm sure Coleman is a great Rb when he's scoring and assisting that much for a smaller club like Everton.
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Suggestion noted.
 
moses said:
Comparison threads are annoying as hell, but this brings it to a whole new level of pointless.
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I was thinking the same.

What is the likelihood we sign Coleman? If Everton are keen on Evans and Januzaj it could be a good negotiation tactic to draw Coleman into the discussion in the same vein as Ramos.
 
AkaAkuma said:
Within our system Mata and Herrera draw in the opposition and release the ball as opposed to the full back. coleman would be excellent when released in space.
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Right, so when there is space created for him. When it comes to not having much space and having to create room for others or himself by holding onto the ball in tight areas, that is where he falls short in comparison to the other full-backs that I mentioned IMO. At Madrid or Barca, unless you are as good as Alves going forward (or to a lesser extent Marcelo) you will not have space created for you or have the team set up to get the most out of you going forward if you are a full-back and you will have to make things happen yourself and to help create room for others by drawing opposition players in and the releasing the ball quickly to take them out of the game. Coleman does not have the touch in tight areas to be as proficient as the players that I mentioned in such situations. All IMO of course.
 
MarkC said:
I just don't think he is as big a liability as is made out like I say. He may be a good crosser but I wouldn't say great. I just think if we can't do better we should wait.

Listen if LVG goes for him i'll support him but we are allowed to question these things. It's not that we can't afford it more the fact once we spend that we have to settle for that player being the only one we will get in that position for a few years. Again I think we could do better even if it means waiting.

We shall see though i'd bet this won't happen.
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Oh yeah we're always allowed to question what the manager decides, especially some of the decisions made in the past couple of years :lol:. I just think Coleman will be a good buy - as you say we could obviously do better but why wait? We'd have a Premiership proven player on our books, one that up until last season was in the top 2/3 right backs in the league. We'd also have Varela and possibly Janko waiting to step up and compete with Coleman in 2/3 or so years time, aswell.

I also agree that this won't happen. We simply won't pay the £25m+ that Everton will demand for him!
 
Devil may care said:
I am a bit baffled that so many seem to rate him so low and also don't seem to think he can step up, even though we have seen plenty of times before that players who have proven themselves at mid table teams can make the jump as the rise to playing wiuth better players. It also seems many forget we won the PL and CL in 2008 with Wes Brown as our RB.
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Wes Brown was class
 
Coleman is a very good RB (his best season was probably better than Rafael 2012-2013), Carvajal is one of the best RB in the world (could be argued that he was the best RB in the world in the season Madrid won UCL). Obviously, I would prefer him to Coleman, but I would be very happy with Coleman too. As I would with Darmian.
 
Raul Madrid said:
Right, so when there is space created for him. When it comes to not having much space and having to create room for others or himself by holding onto the ball in tight areas, that is where he falls short in comparison to the other full-backs that I mentioned IMO. At Madrid or Barca, unless you are as good as Alves going forward (or to a lesser extent Marcelo) you will not have space created for you or have the team set up to get the most out of you going forward if you are a full-back and you will have to make things happen yourself and to help create room for others by drawing opposition players in and the releasing the ball quickly to take them out of the game. Coleman does not have the touch in tight areas to be as proficient as the players that I mentioned in such situations. All IMO of course.
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Thats fair enough. If this were a debate on who is the better alround player, im sure Carvajal would win.

Its not though.
 
@finneh Well your initial statement seemed to insinuate that Rafael in 12/13 far exceeded Coleman in 13/14, which blatantly isn't true. It's very subjective and about opinions, there is no matter of fact and to suggest otherwise is crazy. You would go with Rafael whereas I would go with Coleman; it's a very fine margin.

I don't get the obsession with the price. Yes, we will pay over the odds but we did for Shaw and plenty of others and we will do so forever more. The market is a mess. At the end of the day, Coleman is one of the best RB's in the league and was voted the best in 13/14. We would have him for maybe 5/6 seasons and he would greatly improve us at RB. We would pay over the odds but people are going overboard too.

As for the Azpi thing, there's no way you can conclusively say he's better than Coleman. Ivanovic is but Azpi definitely isn't. Azpi is better defensively and Coleman is far better offensively. How you can conclusively say he's better is bizarre and without foundation.
 
RedorDead21 said:
This is an opinion yes. However credible is debatable. I remember Moreno was bigged up before his Liverpool move. However, Coleman is PL experienced, settled in the country, used to shite weather :) will have more loyalty, is one of the best in the league, would not be a weak link in any Defence........makes alot more sense to me
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Well just like yours,its an opinion yes and if you check my post,you will see that i did not take PL XP away from Coleman.
 
Robbie Boy said:
@finneh Well your initial statement seemed to insinuate that Rafael in 12/13 far exceeded Coleman in 13/14, which blatantly isn't true. It's very subjective and about opinions, there is no matter of fact and to suggest otherwise is crazy. You would go with Rafael whereas I would go with Coleman; it's a very fine margin.

I don't get the obsession with the price. Yes, we will pay over the odds but we did for Shaw and plenty of others and we will do so forever more. The market is a mess. At the end of the day, Coleman is one of the best RB's in the league and was voted the best in 13/14. We would have him for maybe 5/6 seasons and he would greatly improve us at RB. We would pay over the odds but people are going overboard too.

As for the Azpi thing, there's no way you can conclusively say he's better than Coleman. Ivanovic is but Azpi definitely isn't. Azpi is better defensively and Coleman is far better offensively. How you can conclusively say he's better is bizarre and without foundation.
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I believe Rafael was better, but I don't think he was far better. Coleman had a really good campaign the season before last and if he were tested against some of the opponents Rafael has thrived facing he may well have got the nod. Likewise the fact that Rafael was a key member in a team that actually achieved something under pressure is a big positive.

My issue also isn't with the cost. In fact a couple of posts ago I said if it were a choice between Clyne at £12.5m and Coleman at £25m, I'd go with Coleman, as he's better and £12m is nothing to a club like United. Azpilicueta in my view is the most complete full back in the league. So much so that he's keeping probably the second best left back in the league out of Chelsea's team. I believe he's one of the best 5 full backs in the world and is performing several levels above anything Coleman has ever shown.

My problem is that we should be aiming much higher. Coleman isn't enough of an upgrade on Valencia or Rafael to warrant purchasing. I'd prefer to wait 12 months and see if Carvajal becomes available, or wait a year or two for someone like Bellerin or Fabinho to continue to develop and get them (even if it cost £10-15m more). Likewise if Danilo can't displace Carvajal he'll probably be available in 18-24 months.

I want to see United replacing their current decent players with great players irrespective of finances. Buying a solid but unspectacular Everton full back coming off a mediocre season for a massive fee would be ludicrous.
 
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Everton supposedly interested in Januzaj on loan. That could easily warm up the deal for Coleman but still it's hard to make something out of just another news about 'United ready to make a bid' rather than making shit happen.

So far it's a nay but obviously even media can't have the knowledge about updated list of LVG's transfer targets which may still change a few times is the process.
 
sullydnl said:
Why wouldn't Coleman look better than Valencia in Europe? He is actually a better fullback than Valencia and there's absolutely no reason that wouldn't translate to CL football too (at least once he's had a bit of experience with it).
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Well i dont think he would be better option in the start in Europe then Valencia and not sure do we want to give EL/CL XP to 27 year old player.
 
finneh said:
I believe Rafael was better, but I don't think he was far better. Coleman had a really good campaign the season before last and if he were tested against some of the opponents Rafael has thrived facing he may well have got the nod. Likewise the fact that Rafael was a key member in a team that actually achieved something under pressure is a big positive.

My issue also isn't with the cost. In fact a couple of posts ago I said if it were a choice between Clyne at £12.5m and Coleman at £25m, I'd go with Coleman, as he's better and £12m is nothing to a club like United. Azpilicueta in my view is the most complete full back in the league. So much so that he's keeping probably the second best left back in the league out of Chelsea's team. I believe he's one of the best 5 full backs in the world and is performing several levels above anything Coleman has ever shown.

My problem is that we should be aiming much higher. Coleman isn't enough of an upgrade on Valencia or Rafael to warrant purchasing. I'd prefer to wait 12 months and see if Carvajal becomes available, or wait a year or two for someone like Bellerin or Fabinho to continue to develop and get them (even if it cost £10-15m more). Likewise if Danilo can't displace Carvajal he'll probably be available in 18-24 months.

I want to see United replacing their current decent players with great players irrespective of finances. Buying a solid but unspectacular Everton full back coming off a mediocre season for a massive fee would be ludicrous.
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Valencia is a winger playing right back admirably but is at least 2 levels from Coleman's A game shown in the 13/14 season. Rafael is always injured! Coleman is young and could improve yet again with a step up. To say we should wait a year of 2 with lesser players is absurd when we could lose Rafael, replace with Coleman and then replace if necessary in 1/2 years if it doesnt work out when Coleman will be 28 and still have value......who waits 2 years for another option to come available seriously?
 
RedorDead21 said:
Valencia is a winger playing right back admirably but is at least 2 levels from Coleman's A game shown in the 13/14 season. Rafael is always injured! Coleman is young and could improve yet again with a step up. To say we should wait a year of 2 with lesser players is absurd when we could lose Rafael, replace with Coleman and then replace if necessary in 1/2 years if it doesnt work out when Coleman will be 28 and still have value......who waits 2 years for another option to come available seriously?
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I don't agree that Coleman is that much better than Valencia, unless you're expecting him to consistently find the form he's only displayed over 7-8 months.

Last season Valencia was arguably better so we may as well stick with him until someone better becomes available.
 
R'hllor said:
Well i dont think he would be better option in the start in Europe then Valencia and not sure do we want to give EL/CL XP to 27 year old player.
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He's actually 26, which is hardly past it.

In fact you could argue we're better off bringing in someone just approaching their prime years as opposed to some kid who is a while away from their best. That certainly seems to be the idea behind targeting players like Ramos and Otamendi, for example. Even someone like Schneiderlin is only a year younger than Coleman and hardly bursting with CL experience either.
 
sullydnl said:
He's actually 26, which is hardly past it.

In fact you could argue we're better off bringing in someone just approaching their prime years as opposed to some kid who is a while away from their best. That certainly seems to be the idea behind targeting players like Ramos and Otamendi, for example. Even someone like Schneiderlin is only a year younger than Coleman and hardly bursting with CL experience either.
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He is gonna be 27 in October but yea same crap all in all. Well CBs are in unique situation now,its different case for them.
 
finneh said:
I believe Rafael was better, but I don't think he was far better. Coleman had a really good campaign the season before last and if he were tested against some of the opponents Rafael has thrived facing he may well have got the nod. Likewise the fact that Rafael was a key member in a team that actually achieved something under pressure is a big positive.

My issue also isn't with the cost. In fact a couple of posts ago I said if it were a choice between Clyne at £12.5m and Coleman at £25m, I'd go with Coleman, as he's better and £12m is nothing to a club like United. Azpilicueta in my view is the most complete full back in the league. So much so that he's keeping probably the second best left back in the league out of Chelsea's team. I believe he's one of the best 5 full backs in the world and is performing several levels above anything Coleman has ever shown.

My problem is that we should be aiming much higher. Coleman isn't enough of an upgrade on Valencia or Rafael to warrant purchasing. I'd prefer to wait 12 months and see if Carvajal becomes available, or wait a year or two for someone like Bellerin or Fabinho to continue to develop and get them (even if it cost £10-15m more). Likewise if Danilo can't displace Carvajal he'll probably be available in 18-24 months.

I want to see United replacing their current decent players with great players irrespective of finances. Buying a solid but unspectacular Everton full back coming off a mediocre season for a massive fee would be ludicrous.
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Looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I think Coleman would be a huge upgrade over what we currently have and I feel he would further improve. His performances over the past 3 seasons have been very solid and he was brilliant in 13/14. Again, I reiterate, in my opinion, he was better than Rafael in 12/13.

It appears that you class him as mediocre because of the club that he's coming from. Plenty of our signings over the years have been from far lesser clubs. He would take time to adapt to a new club like any player would, but I believe he would go on to be a good solid signing. Is Carvajal that much better? I haven't seem anything to indicate that he's flights above Coleman. What I see is a player at a far better club that naturally will look better. Everyone spunks over names like Fabinho; but how many, hand on heart have seen him play consistently? People like to jump on bandwagons with these foreign players. Darmian seems a good player and @izec gave a good summary of him yesterday but I'm honestly yet to see him play.

As for Azpi, I feel you are wildly overrating him. I would have Coleman as comfortably better. Azpi is a typical Mourinho player that has been moulded into an extremely solid fullback. He's excellent defensively but is seriously questionable in an offensive sense. I'm stunned you think he's such a complete fullback that you have him in the top 5 in the world. I wouldn't have him anywhere near it.

Anyhow, it's all subjective and we aren't going to agree so no point continuing this debate really. Fwiw, I don't see us going for Coleman. We get linked every summer and still nothing has ever remotely materialised.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I think Coleman would be a huge upgrade over what we currently have and I feel he would further improve. His performances over the past 3 seasons have been very solid and he was brilliant in 13/14. Again, I reiterate, in my opinion, he was better than Rafael in 12/13.

It appears that you class him as mediocre because of the club that he's coming from. Plenty of our signings over the years have been from far lesser clubs. He would take time to adapt to a new club like any player would, but I believe he would go on to be a good solid signing. Is Carvajal that much better? I haven't seem anything to indicate that he's flights above Coleman. What I see is a player at a far better club that naturally will look better. Everyone spunks over names like Fabinho; but how many, hand on heart have seen him play consistently? People like to jump on bandwagons with these foreign players. Darmian seems a good player and @izec gave a good summary of him yesterday but I'm honestly yet to see him play.

As for Azpi, I feel you are wildly overrating him. I would have Coleman as comfortably better. Azpi is a typical Mourinho player that has been moulded into an extremely solid fullback. He's excellent defensively but is seriously questionable in an offensive sense. I'm stunned you think he's such a complete fullback that you have him in the top 5 in the world. I wouldn't have him anywhere near it.

Anyhow, it's all subjective and we aren't going to agree so no point continuing this debate really. Fwiw, I don't see us going for Coleman. We get linked every summer and still nothing has ever remotely materialised.
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True enough, it is all subjective. The only thing I would say is it isn't anything to do with the club he's playing for. I was a massive proponent for signing Shaw, who was playing for a worse club at the time.
 
Would be happy with Coleman. Better then Clyne, and at a good age and can run all day (has a pretty good end product as well). What we just need more then anything is a proper right back who will make that spot his own, we haven't had that since Gary Neville started declining and getting the injuries really. Was Brown for a season, then O'Shea, then Rafael for 12/13, but with the first two it just felt like temporary solutions and with Rafael he obviously never got past the injuries. We've been lacking someone to call our automatic pick for that spot for a good 8 or 9 years now so it would be nice to bring in Coleman. Get some consistency back in the back 4.
 
Hopefully Coleman will push for the move. Evans + Januzaj (loan) + 10 million is a very good deal for Everton, and one that suits us too.
 
Do they owe us anything for Cleverly? Ings free transfer to pool is done by tribunal which is why I'm curious. Definitely send them Evans.
 
Money + player deals barely ever happen. Why do people keep on suggesting them!?
 
goin4glory said:
Do they owe us anything for Cleverly? Ings free transfer to pool is done by tribunal which is why I'm curious. Definitely send them Evans.
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Nah, I think compensation is only owed if you get a player under either 21 or 23 on a free. Cleverley is 25.
 
LennonNL said:
Money + player deals barely ever happen. Why do people keep on suggesting them!?
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Evans will probably leave, and Everton are looking for a new CB. And no matter how much stick Evans gets, with regular playing time & renewed confidence he can still be a very good CB.

It's possible. Similar to Ramos-De Gea situation.
 
There must be a better RB option out there than him
 
By keeping Rafael you mean have him warm the bench whilst Valencia starts? No thanks.
 
Everton should try work Rafael into any potential deal, they could do well here...

I rate Coleman highly and do think he'd bring a significant improvement to the first team but I don't see us signing him.
 
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