Seamus Coleman

freshibal said:
How is Rafael overrated ?, he's brilliant, his enthusiasm is great to see.

The only thing letting him down is that he tends to switch off at bad times, but this has gotten less over time. His defensive work is also a lot better than his early years.

I feel people tend to focus on his mistakes alot, but unless he scores a great goal all of his positive output is ignored.

which is a shame as i feel he is better than coleman.
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There is more to it than that.

He's rash in the tackle at times and his general fitness/injury record is v poor.

Compare his appearances to Coleman's.
 
NK86 said:
How about performing in Europe's elite competition and proving he can cut it at that level.people said the same thing about baines and he was badly found out at a higher level.
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He can only perform in competitions in which his club is involved in. He was good against Wolfsburg in the EL this season, so yeah, test passed. He has also had several good games for the ROI.
 
NK86 said:
Rafael had an injury riddled season last term and people completely forget how awesome he was for us the season before and what a brilliant talent he is.
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Doesnt change the fact that as of recent times and form, Coleman has been better and thats what matters.

Injuries, injuries...its all we ever seem to bang on about these days.
 
Robbie Boy said:
He can only perform in competitions in which his club is involved in. He was good against Wolfsburg in the EL this season, so yeah, test passed. He has also had several good games for the ROI.
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Yeah one.Good game against Wolfsburg does.prove everything
It's like Baines never had a good El game. And by Europe's premier competition I obviously meant the CL.
 
Didn't realise this but Coleman signed a 5 year deal with Everton in the summer. He is a quality player who should be playing in the Champions League and competing for trophies on a regular basis but I can't see any of the top clubs shelling out for him what they would need to do to purchase him. Everton will be the highest level he will play at.
 
Ananke said:
Doesnt change the fact that as of recent times and form, Coleman has been better and thats what matters.

Injuries, injuries...its all we ever seem to bang on about these days.
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One season better than Rafael when even Jagielka looked.better than Vidic.
 
NK86 said:
Yeah one.Good game against Wolfsburg does.prove everything
It's like Baines never had a good El game. And by Europe's premier competition I obviously meant the CL.
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I think I covered that point when I clearly stated that he can only play in competitions that his team is involved in.

You do realise that he has only played in one game in Europe this season, right? In that game he scored and was impressive. You don't appear to have any constructive argument?
 
Decotron said:
There is more to it than that.

He's rash in the tackle at times and his general fitness/injury record is v poor.

Compare his appearances to Coleman's.
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I agree that injuries are a problem with Rafael but don't think there is much else.between.them. Rafael has proven he can cut it against Europe's elite. Anyway this keeps going.in circles. I rate Rafael higher than Coleman.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I think I covered that point when I clearly stated that he can only play in competitions that his team is involved in.

You do realise that he has only played in one game in Europe this season, right? In that game he scored and was impressive. You don't appear to have any constructive argument?
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My point was in response to.you saying.he has.nothing.else to prove that he is.better than.Rafael which is.obviously a false argument when.he has not even.played in all the top competitions that Rafael has.
 
NK86 said:
My point was in response to.you saying.he has.nothing.else to prove that he is.better than.Rafael which is.obviously a false argument when.he has not even.played in all the top competitions that Rafael has.
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A false argument? I said 'there's not much more he can do to prove it' - the point stands. He has been better than Rafael for a while now and whilst he remains at Everton, he can only play in the competitons that they are involved in. So he, as a player, isn't in any position to do any more to prove he is the better player. If and when he plays for a CL team, then we can assess his performances in that particular competition.
 
Robbie Boy said:
A false argument? I said 'there's not much more he can do to prove it' - the point stands. He has been better than Rafael for a while now and whilst he remains at Everton, he can only play in the competitons that they are involved in. So he, as a player, isn't in any position to do any more to prove he is the better player. If and when he plays for a CL team, then we can assess his performances in that particular competition.
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He was better than Rafael last season when everyone in our team underperformed. This season I have not.seen a lot of Everton but Rafael has been excellent for us.
 
NK86 said:
One season better than Rafael when even Jagielka looked.better than Vidic.
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Tbf mate, many people said the same with bale. 'Hes only had one good season'. Its about age, progression and lack of injuries to keep that progression going. Coleman is progressing his game rather fast. Rafael has had injuries preventing him to do so.

I feel he is overall better, safer, his current form is better, and he's gaining momentum to keep all of that at a high standard. But we all think what we personally think.
 
NK86 said:
He was better than Rafael last season when everyone in our team underperformed. This season I have not.seen a lot of Everton but Rafael has been excellent for us.
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He has been excellent for Everton this season, despite them under performing thus far. To be fair, he's been better than Rafael for around 18 months now and has been gradually progressing every season. He came to England a-lot later than Rafael, lets not forget. So naturally, it took him a-while to get to this level.
 
Robbie Boy said:
He has been excellent for Everton this season, despite them under performing thus far. To be fair, he's been better than Rafael for around 18 months now and has been gradually progressing every season. He came to England a-lot later than Rafael, lets not forget. So naturally, it took him a-while to get to this level.
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Rafael came from a different country as a 18 year old. Anyway I don't think he was better than Rafael the season.before.last and I am not going to judge everything based on last season's form of our players for obvious reasons.
 
Makes such a huge difference to Everton when he's available. Incredibly influential for a full-back and so consistent. I really like Rafael but his defensive brain-farts are getting tedious now and I would seriously consider a swap, given the chance (not that this would ever be an option) Realistically, I'm happy enough hoping Rafael will get a bit more consistent, less injury prone and a wee bit smarter. He's got bags of talent and I love his attitude. Would be sad if he left.
 
NK86 said:
Yeah one.Good game against Wolfsburg does.prove everything
It's like Baines never had a good El game. And by Europe's premier competition I obviously meant the CL.
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Baines was the best player on the pitch against Wolfsburg then put in a fantastic cross to set up our goal in Russia. It's unfair to just judge Baines on a international tournament when nearly every English player struggles to perform on them.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Makes such a huge difference to Everton when he's available. Incredibly influential for a full-back and so consistent. I really like Rafael but his defensive brain-farts are getting tedious now and I would seriously consider a swap, given the chance (not that this would ever be an option)
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I have seen Coleman get caught out of position loads of times.but this never seems to.be a concern for most who.consider him superior to Rafael. This is a very subjective view and don't think there is anything one set can do to prove that one is better than the other.
 
NK86 said:
Rafael came from a different country as a 18 year old. Anyway I don't think he was better than Rafael the season.before.last and I am not going to judge everything based on last season's form of our players for obvious reasons.
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I said 18 months, to be fair. Anyway, take a look in the thread about the best RB in the league and the general consensus is that Coleman, Ivanovic and Zabaleta make up the top 3, in various orders. You can exclude last season if you please but Coleman was named as the best RB in the league, thus making the team of the season, so it would be silly to do so.
 
BigDunc9 said:
Baines was the best player on the pitch against Wolfsburg then put in a fantastic cross to set up our goal in Russia. It's unfair to just judge Baines on a international tournament when nearly every English player struggles to perform on them.
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Don't get me wrong. I feel Baines is a fantastic player but he has never had the chance to play in the CL and he was horrible in the world cup.
 
NK86 said:
I have seen Coleman get caught out of position loads of times.but this never seems to.be a concern for most who.consider him superior to Rafael. This is a very subjective view and don't think there is anything one set can do to prove that one is better than the other.
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Yeah, agreed. The difference is small enough that nobody will ever prove anything. Having watched a lot of both players (including Coleman playing in Ireland games) I just feel he's a little bit more reliable, as a defender.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, agreed. The difference is small enough that nobody will ever prove anything. Having watched a lot of both players (including Coleman playing in Ireland games) I just feel he's a little bit more reliable, as a defender.
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Pretty much, he's also more of a goal threat and less injury prone.
 
Coleman is fantastic, I love his attitude on the pitch as well. The fact he scores so many goals from inside the box just proves how determined he is.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Makes such a huge difference to Everton when he's available. Incredibly influential for a full-back and so consistent. I really like Rafael but his defensive brain-farts are getting tedious now and I would seriously consider a swap, given the chance (not that this would ever be an option) Realistically, I'm happy enough hoping Rafael will get a bit more consistent, less injury prone and a wee bit smarter. He's got bags of talent and I love his attitude. Would be sad if he left.
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Who do you reckon has more talent, i.e. a higher ceiling than the two? Personally, I prefer Rafael. I think he has better technique, better short passing and more enthusiastic, arguably better pace also. Coleman seems to have a knack for scoring goals and seems to put up better stats overall though, which of course is vital to winning.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I said 18 months, to be fair. Anyway, take a look in the thread about the best RB in the league and the general consensus is that Coleman, Ivanovic and Zabaleta make up the top 3, in various orders. You can exclude last season if you please but Coleman was named as the best RB in the league, thus making the team of the season, so it would be silly to do so.
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As I have already said that last season Coleman was obviously better. This season I feel Rafael has been excellent for us and it clearly shows in our performances when he is not playing. Also ratings are always a subjective view. People claiming our 2011-12 title winning team as better than the invincibles does not make it so.
 
Seamus Coleman is one of the most overrated RB's out, he can't defend which primarily is his job.

He's like Glen Johnson really, i remember years ago when people overhyped him for a season or 2 for getting up and down the pitch but realized just how shite he was when that stopped happening and how he offers little else because he can't defend.

Coleman's had like what, 2 good seasons at 26 years old, his shelf life getting up and down the wing is probably 29/30 years old and once that happens and he can't get up and down the pitch anymore, who's going to have him really for his defensive capabilities?
 
NK86 said:
As I have already said that last season Coleman was obviously better. This season I feel Rafael has been excellent for us and it clearly shows in our performances when he is not playing. Also ratings are always a subjective view. People claiming our 2011-12 title winning team as better than the invincibles does not make it so.
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Rafael has been good for us this season but Colemsn has also been good for Everton. There's very little in it, so I mean, it's really down to personal preference.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Rafael has been good for us this season but Colemsn has also been good for Everton. There's very little in it, so I mean, it's really down to personal preference.
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Only select Manchester United fans have a personal preference for Rafael over Coleman.
 
NK86 said:
I have seen Coleman get caught out of position loads of times.but this never seems to.be a concern for most who.consider him superior to Rafael. This is a very subjective view and don't think there is anything one set can do to prove that one is better than the other.
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I doubt you are watching him as long as I am and imo he's superior to Rafael defensively.

Consistency has to enter the argument as well. Rafael is still making mistakes he made 5 years ago. Coleman is still improving im not sure Rafael is.
 
NK86 said:
Don't get me wrong. I feel Baines is a fantastic player but he has never had the chance to play in the CL and he was horrible in the world cup.
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He was it's just that we have genuine World class players like Rooney and Gerrard look horrible in the majority of there International tournaments. I also think he was left exposed by the system England played and was criminally underused as a attacking threat as he still is now when he plays for England. That won't change until a new manager comes in though.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Only select Manchester United fans have a personal preference for Rafael over Coleman.
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That is such a lame reply. Using the same equation, it can be said only the Irish rate Coleman higher than Rafael, and that is obviously bollocks.
 
Rossa said:
Who do you reckon has more talent, i.e. a higher ceiling than the two? Personally, I prefer Rafael. I think he has better technique, better short passing and more enthusiastic, arguably better pace also. Coleman seems to have a knack for scoring goals and seems to put up better stats overall though, which of course is vital to winning.
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I just think Coleman is a better full-back. Couldn't really break it down in much detail. He just seems more likely to do the business for you, at both ends of the pitch. I also think Rafael is a cracking player, by the way, just not quite as good.

This might all change if Rafael avoids injury long enough to play 20-30 consecutive games. I'm a bit bored of adding in that proviso when we discuss our various defenders though. Being able to avoid injuries is an important quality in itself IMO. One of Paddy Evra's most valuable attributes.
 
NK86 said:
That is such a lame reply. Using the same equation, it can be said only the Irish rate Coleman higher than Rafael, and that is obviously bollocks.
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But it's not though, as Coleman receives plenty of praise from respected pundits, certainly more than Rafael. Coleman has also been included in the PFA Premier League Team of the Year.
 
Decotron said:
I doubt you are watching him as long as I am and imo he's superior to Rafael defensively.

Consistency has to enter the argument as well. Rafael is still making mistakes he made 5 years ago. Coleman is still improving im not sure Rafael is.
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You could be.right as I have only seen Coleman for 3 years now and that too only in the Pl and not on.the international stage. Rafael does.make some defensive errors but I.have seen.Evra making the same mistakes season after season. Does not mean he is not better than most left backs. Rafael had already improved to a very high level by the time Coleman came to the Pl so.obviously Coleman has had to improve more to.reach.that level.where he is.now.
 
NoWinNoFee said:
Seamus Coleman is one of the most overrated RB's out, he can't defend which primarily is his job.

He's like Glen Johnson really, i remember years ago when people overhyped him for a season or 2 for getting up and down the pitch but realized just how shite he was when that stopped happening and how he offers little else because he can't defend.

Coleman's had like what, 2 good seasons at 26 years old, his shelf life getting up and down the wing is probably 29/30 years old and once that happens and he can't get up and down the pitch anymore, who's going to have him really for his defensive capabilities?
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Wouldn't be long until someone decided because he so good going forward he must therefore be a terrible defender. Coleman is actually quite solid at the back.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
But it's not though, as Coleman receives plenty of praise from respected pundits, certainly more than Rafael. Coleman has also been included in the PFA Premier League Team of the Year.
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You mean the same pundits who claimed Ddg is a liability and hart is much.better. Surely, no bias in that.
 
NoWinNoFee said:
Seamus Coleman is one of the most overrated RB's out, he can't defend which primarily is his job.

He's like Glen Johnson really, i remember years ago when people overhyped him for a season or 2 for getting up and down the pitch but realized just how shite he was when that stopped happening and how he offers little else because he can't defend.

Coleman's had like what, 2 good seasons at 26 years old, his shelf life getting up and down the wing is probably 29/30 years old and once that happens and he can't get up and down the pitch anymore, who's going to have him really for his defensive capabilities?
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Probably exaggerating a little bit but yeah, I generally agree. People tend to think of him as a lot younger than he actually is and I include myself in that, in my mind Coleman is this young, exciting right back. At 26 he still has his supposed peak ahead of him but he is unlikely to be dramatically improving. He gets overrated because of his goalscoring ability which allows people to overlook his weaknesses elsewhere. He is by no means bad defensively but I'd take Zabaleta and Ivanovic over him every single time. Possibly Sagna as well.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I just think Coleman is a better full-back. Couldn't really break it down in much detail. He just seems more likely to do the business for you, at both ends of the pitch. I also think Rafael is a cracking player, by the way, just not quite as good.

This might all change if Rafael avoids injury long enough to play 20-30 consecutive games. I'm a bit bored of adding in that proviso when we discuss our various defenders though. Being able to avoid injuries is an important quality in itself IMO. One of Paddy Evra's most valuable attributes.
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Fair enough that. Coleman is good, no doubt. We all know that Rafael is great when injury free, so let's hope that can happen.

Evra was immense at staying injury free, but his last season under Fergie, he was obviously playing with an injury - the man couldn't run. Still, have to give him respect for giving his all. I still miss Evra and his contributions for the team; although he regressed as an individual player, he was terrific at intercepting play and starting attacks from the back, which Shaw isn't close to.
 
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