Zabaleta and Ivanovic are currently the two best RBs in the league.
Seamus Coleman
- Thread starter Ramshock
- Start date
Completely agree. As I said, the thread about the best RB in the league is testament to that; very little mention of Rafael in the top 3 and plenty of mention regarding Coleman. I guess some on here always want to believe our players our superior. It's always been quite prevalent.
I stopped reading there
Nearly everyone on here agrees that Zabaleta and Ivanovic are the best two. Agreeing with the rest of that awful post is doing Coleman a massive disservice.
You read that far? I didn't even get to that part.
I love the term overrated on here and how it's used. So Coleman is overrated, by whom exactly? Last season he was Everton fans and players player of the season, in the Sky Sports and PFA team of the year; that's a pretty diverse mix of people that overrate one player.
Definitely.
Vincent Kompany is often said to be overrated on this forum. The whole reason people think that is exactly because he is winning awards and getting into team of the years, constantly hyped as one of the best CB's in the world etc.
The term overrated can only really be applied to those players who are winning awards so listing what Coleman has won and who rates him doesn't really prove or disprove anything. Kyle Walker won PFA Young Player of the Year not so long ago for crying out loud, he beat Aguero among others to the award. There was evidently a quite diverse mix of people who rated him as well. And I'm not comparing Walker to Coleman, god no. Coleman is a very good right back but as I've said before, I do think he can be over-hyped. It's just an opinion.
Lot of Irish folk on here...
Seriously though, Coleman is class, but he has done nothing to convince me he is a level above Rafa. And those 2 are a tier below the likes of Ivanovic and Zabaleta. Look at how Shaw has struggled since joining us...
Seriously though, Coleman is class, but he has done nothing to convince me he is a level above Rafa. And those 2 are a tier below the likes of Ivanovic and Zabaleta. Look at how Shaw has struggled since joining us...
I'd say Rafael is more aggressive but while that endears him to us it also causes many of his mistakes. Coleman is more enthusiastic getting forward due to his excellent fitness levels, I'd say he has more pace than Rafa too.
I think he does pretty much everything Rafael does, but doesn't miss as many games, and will score more goals and have more of a direct end product.
Not much between them though. Not enough to prove anybody right or wrong.
Not much between them though. Not enough to prove anybody right or wrong.
That's fair enough. My point was more that you agreed with a truly awful post that basically slated Coleman. I guess most players are over-hyped to some extent, at least that's how differing sets of fans will see it anyway. Listing the awards merely shows that he's rated by plenty, though. It was more in reference to some of the other posts in here.
It strikes me as he has to play Coleman down to big up Zabaleta when there shouldn't be any need to as in truth there isn't much between them. I said Zabaleta was the best RB in the league in the RB thread but there isn't much between them and Ivanovic in my opinion.
Its important to remember this when arguing on the cafe about Ireland's best player and whether he's better than x player.
Also important to remember that Rafael is 2 years younger than Coleman.
Is this longterm debate still raging? Coleman is a quality fullback, the only criticism you can make against him at this point is he isn't playing in one of the title chasing "big sides" to really test him week in, week out, which in a way has some validity, but some comments in this thread, like comparing him to Glen Johnson makes my skull hurt, if he played for us he'd no doubt be a cult hero here, just as the Evertonians love him.
He's a fantastic player.
Just to counter that argument somewhat Coleman came from semi professional football and is only starting regularly since 2010. As I mentioned earlier he has added to his game every season to date and continues to do so.
My opinion on Coleman has nothing to do with Zabaleta. I don't play down Ivanovic on this forum and he is Zabaleta's, the consensus would suggest, main competitor when considering the best right back in the league. I simply think Coleman doesn't have the defensive capabilities of Zabaleta or Ivanovic and that is what sets them apart. I'm not making out Coleman to be some liability defensively like Glen Johnson but at the same time he isn't anything to shout home about when it comes to defending.
Coleman was probably as good as Rafael is now two years ago anyway.
Aye, this is true. I rate Coleman but I don't think the gap between him and Rafael is so big. The season before Moyes came Rafael was probably the best rb in the league, at 22 years old. He could easily go on to be the best still.
Same goes for a lot of United fans in general too. It's almost an insult to suggest any teams lower than us may have a better equivalent.
I remember many thinking Modric and Bale were "overrated", and weren't good enough, until they were on their way to Madrid, and showed they were.
Yeah, but just like there are Irish people on the cafe, there are a handful of idiots here too. Anybody who thought that about Bale and Modric doesn't know much about football.
I wouldn't call them idiots or say they don't know much about football but some of our fans are blind to our players faults even when they're blindingly obvious. You only get a fair assessment when the player has left us.
Bale and Modric? They'd make any team in the world better and thats going on their play in the last 3-4 years, not just last season in which they won la decima.
The most overrated player in the league
Actually when players leave us, it often becomes a complete mess with revisionism towards said player or people hating them and becoming bitter because they left. See the Welbeck thread as a prime example.
I find the bias towards our own players quite shocking on here at times and it makes me wonder do some posters watch other teams bar ourselves. I guess it's expected as it's a United forum. Still though, it sometimes takes away from any logical debate. Haha lolz Coleman is overrated and crap; statements like this just make discussion or debate quite tedious.
It's the same people who dismiss the likes of Barry and Milner as shite, when they're quite obviously good players. Henderson still gets dismissed. RedCafe can be strange when it comes to rating players... If you play for Chelsea, you're the best thing since sliced bread. If you play for City, you're nothing more than a flat track bully. If you play for Manchester United, you're unrivaled when winning and beyond shite when not.
@Speak has it spot on, re: Modric, on the newbies at the time there were countless posters saying he wasn't good enough when looking at his assists & goals stats for Spurs a few summers back, you wonder if half the people who post on forums even watch football.
When Ronaldo left, back on Redissue i read a lot of "He won't ever have another season like 08 with 35+ goals" and "He was only did so well because Rooney did all his running, he won't be half as good without him"
Of course they'll deny it now, but it's not just here where you're subjected to this gash.
I think it is quite clear Coleman is actually a dogshite conference level player who is playing off the illusion of being Irish. Jamie Carragher only said he is the best RB because Jamie is trying to connect to his Irish roots and obviously he only got into the PFA team of the year because almost 99% of players have an Irish grandparent somewhere. It is quite despicable how the Irish are doing this really.
I think Coleman is slightly better than Rafael at the moment but Rafael has the potential to be better than Coleman if he stays fit. Saying Coleman is bad at defending is wrong too. He gets caught out of position now and again but what attacking full back doesn't? He usually has the pace to get back anyway.
I like the way coleman plays the game. I like his attitude and his pace. He gets in the box for a right back and he consistently goes forward from right back and is a big threat in games. Defensively he is sometimes caught out positionally but that's rare enough. I'd take him at liverpool in a heartbeat.
Very well put. The only 2 arguments they make is that they don't play under the pressure of a big club or that they been haven't been proven in the CL even though they still play just as good against the English teams that go far in the CL.
Aye. It's such a baseless argument. So can I say that Torres was actually better than Suarez last season as he played in the CL whilst Suarez didn't. It's just silly. Colemsn has had plenty of good games against the English elite; a-lot of whom are far better than plenty of foreign CL teams.
Yep, Baines and Coleman certainly showed their class against Chelsea this season.
As much as Welbeck did against Spurs. What a terrible post. It's posts like this that make any rational debate disintegrate.
That's hilarious coming from you. If anyone dares to speak out about Welbeck after a match, you have a meltdown. Yet you pinpoint one game in order to try and make some bizarre point. Cherry picking to suit your argument eh.
Please show me the post where I claimed Welbeck has good games against the top English teams.
Well your overrating of Welbeck so far has bordered on the hilarious and if anyone dares to criticise him for any particular match, you get all defensive. Just funny from you of all people. You picked one single game against a top team as a stick to beat two very good players. It's just odd. Rewind to last season when both had very very good games against plenty of top teams.
Edit: Not to mention you actually picked an absolutely bat shit mental match where both defences looked like pub teams.
Coleman did actually. He was great that match, wasn't at fault for any of the goals and did a good job going forward getting an assist and setting up Mirallas for a near miss.