Screw PSR - We HAVE to buy in Jan

meninred said:
can anyone remember if Aubamayoung and Ozil left in January ? I think arsenal lost a lot of money to move them. conflict with PSR ?
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Aubameyang left in Feb (end of window), Ozil's contract was terminated (paid up) 6 months early to allow him to move.
 
I read today that Antony is going, but at a fraction of what we paid for him, which is understandable because he was never worth 95 million, and we also have to pay some of his wages!
To start with Antony was never good enough at any price and certainly not worthy of his wages, some £240.00 a week I believe, so why did Ten Haag rate him so highly?
Jim Ratcliffe and INEOS came in with big ideas and claims of turning the club around and changing the transfer policy for the better, but all theve done so far is allow Dan Ashworth to leave just months after paying Newcastle some 3 million pounds for his services, sack a few tea ladies and slash funding to the Manchester United Foundation. OK they got rid of Ten Haag, but only months after extending his contract! We have players who are simply not good enough on astronomical wages meaning we cant easily get shot of them unless, in the case of Antony and others before him, we agree to pay part of those wages! And this is "sound business?" And though some of this isnt necessarily Ratcliffes fault, I wouldnt want him to look after my piggy bank!
 
What a great idea - we spend years calling for City to be relegated for breaking the rules but now we're advocating Utd to do that.

I've heard it all.
 
City haven't had a points deduction yet. Maybe if we overspend this window, they won't bring the hammer down until 15+ years later.

Buy now, give a shit later, as I always say when I get my credit card out.
 
redmanx said:
I read today that Antony is going, but at a fraction of what we paid for him, which is understandable because he was never worth 95 million, and we also have to pay some of his wages!
To start with Antony was never good enough at any price and certainly not worthy of his wages, some £240.00 a week I believe, so why did Ten Haag rate him so highly?
Jim Ratcliffe and INEOS came in with big ideas and claims of turning the club around and changing the transfer policy for the better, but all theve done so far is allow Dan Ashworth to leave just months after paying Newcastle some 3 million pounds for his services, sack a few tea ladies and slash funding to the Manchester United Foundation. OK they got rid of Ten Haag, but only months after extending his contract! We have players who are simply not good enough on astronomical wages meaning we cant easily get shot of them unless, in the case of Antony and others before him, we agree to pay part of those wages! And this is "sound business?" And though some of this isnt necessarily Ratcliffes fault, I wouldnt want him to look after my piggy bank!
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I think he’s getting a raw deal here on this forum.

He bought into a club that’s declined on the pitch for 10 plus years. One with ageing training facilities, a stadium that’s falling apart and debts of over £700million pounds. They had great business people running it who knew nothing about football but everything about getting commercial/ sponsorship deals.

We all knew that if we didn’t start wining those deals would dry up. Everyone found out the stadium was for the bin and Ronaldo let the cat out the bag about the training ground, so they have sold just under 30% to Jim and he’s taking all the flack for trying to turn it around.

They still own over 44% and are still guilty of ruining our club. Sir Jim is actually the only hope of change.
 
Why are we panicking? People talking about taking a points deduction NEXT season...for what purpose? How on Earth does that help?

What difference does it make if we finish 14th or 16th this season? Who cares? It was a write-off the moment we persisted with EtH.

Leave Amorim to embed his system, ship out the expensive flops and build in the Summer for a more successful season in 25/26
 
redmanx said:
I read today that Antony is going, but at a fraction of what we paid for him, which is understandable because he was never worth 95 million, and we also have to pay some of his wages!
To start with Antony was never good enough at any price and certainly not worthy of his wages, some £240.00 a week I believe, so why did Ten Haag rate him so highly?
Jim Ratcliffe and INEOS came in with big ideas and claims of turning the club around and changing the transfer policy for the better, but all theve done so far is allow Dan Ashworth to leave just months after paying Newcastle some 3 million pounds for his services, sack a few tea ladies and slash funding to the Manchester United Foundation. OK they got rid of Ten Haag, but only months after extending his contract! We have players who are simply not good enough on astronomical wages meaning we cant easily get shot of them unless, in the case of Antony and others before him, we agree to pay part of those wages! And this is "sound business?" And though some of this isnt necessarily Ratcliffes fault, I wouldnt want him to look after my piggy bank!
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You have a very selected perception, missing the complete new football setup with a new CEO
 
redmanx said:
I read today that Antony is going, but at a fraction of what we paid for him, which is understandable because he was never worth 95 million, and we also have to pay some of his wages!
To start with Antony was never good enough at any price and certainly not worthy of his wages, some £240.00 a week I believe, so why did Ten Haag rate him so highly?
Jim Ratcliffe and INEOS came in with big ideas and claims of turning the club around and changing the transfer policy for the better, but all theve done so far is allow Dan Ashworth to leave just months after paying Newcastle some 3 million pounds for his services, sack a few tea ladies and slash funding to the Manchester United Foundation. OK they got rid of Ten Haag, but only months after extending his contract! We have players who are simply not good enough on astronomical wages meaning we cant easily get shot of them unless, in the case of Antony and others before him, we agree to pay part of those wages! And this is "sound business?" And though some of this isnt necessarily Ratcliffes fault, I wouldnt want him to look after my piggy bank!
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There is no sound business with players like Antony, just trying to make best of a really bad situation. We still have to amortise half his fee on the books and pay his wages for two and half years.

This season he hardly gets picked whoever the manager has been so it’s either keep him just to make up the numbers or reduce some of that financial burden by loaning him out. It’s not a good deal either way but I’d rather see a commitment to getting players out of the door rather than pretending/hoping they come good.

Unfortunately we just have to be patient in this window and in general. There isn’t a quick fix but I think in 18 months time the squad will look very different and the vast majority of these players will never be offered another contract by Utd.
 
KStandBarmyArmy1993 said:
Ignoring the transfer fees for a second, those players had a decent profile and were young enough (especially Antony and Sancho) for them to be key parts of the team for a number of years. The fact they haven't been shows that the wider structure is so wrong.

Even Pogba and Lukaku had moments where you could see why we spent the money. The issue was like every type of player, they only get worse when they get here.

Ironically, a 25 year old Pogba would be perfect for this team. Had Sancho had another few years performing well at Dorrmund, getting him would be a massive benefit now.

People are saying we should have gone for Toney in the summer but I'm not sure he would have had any bigger impact than Lukaku. They also had similar goal records for a similar level of club (Lukaku probably had more experience at a higher level.)

Ultimately, quick fixes aren't necessarily a bad thing. Football has been overwhelmed by short termism now, you just almost need to plan your next quick fix months/years in advance.
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Insane that Pogba is even mentioned in that list of 'errors'.
 
I will admit that I dont exactly know how FFP works. Just like I cant actually wrap my head around needing X amount of English players/ homegrown players versus international players. They are just odd rules that are vague but serve a purpose.
Having said that, I do believe we could do something in January if we are willing to sell. Its tricky because a healthy Mount or Shaw (I know laugh)... would mean that we focus on another striker or something else we need. In other words if we know that Shaw and Mount can stay healthy, then we sit on that until Summer and work on other weaknesses. The issue is you cant rely on either one.

I would try to move Casemiro, Lindelof and Rashford now.... See if that allows us to bring in 1/2 players to mend us over until the summer and keep us above relegation.
 
lilcurt said:
What amazes me is that the fanbase asked for this.

We had a potential purchase option from Qatar that would have cleared the debt and invested in the squad and infrastructure. But instead we made it easy for thr Glazers to stay and choose Jim because he is English and a fan (despite trying to purchase Chelsea and Barca prior).

I know there would have still been PSR to contend with but that would be easier without debt repayments and if we could have cleared the £300m we owe clubs in transfers!
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Let's be honest I don't think Jassim ever had the money and if he did it was almost certainly state money. Which we're better off not being associated with.
 
spwd said:
Can someone please explain how are we ever going to pay the debt off? I'm not clued up with all this stuff but with PSR etc are our 2 owners allowed to just pay some off if they wanted to? Because I can't see how we can invest in everything we need to when we're paying 50 million or whatever it is per year for that.
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Anyone?
 
lilcurt said:
What amazes me is that the fanbase asked for this.

We had a potential purchase option from Qatar that would have cleared the debt and invested in the squad and infrastructure. But instead we made it easy for thr Glazers to stay and choose Jim because he is English and a fan (despite trying to purchase Chelsea and Barca prior).

I know there would have still been PSR to contend with but that would be easier without debt repayments and if we could have cleared the £300m we owe clubs in transfers!
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Fans had no control over what the Glazers decided to do so this is just plain wrong.
 
Fts 74 said:
What a great idea - we spend years calling for City to be relegated for breaking the rules but now we're advocating Utd to do that.

I've heard it all.
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if city get away with it, then jim may as well do the same if he’s prepared to chuck the money in.
 
Unlike Chelsea and others, where PSR is the constraint in spending more, our problem is not just PSR but also lack of funds. We have close to £710m of debt at Sept (plus ~ £250m of transfer debt). We also make losses so there is no current way to actually pay the debt unless Sir Jim can inject some large amount of capital (he had committed to invest £300m into the club off which I believe £200m has already gone in. Basically, we have a lot of debt. Plus we are still losing cash. Plus our owners are not really investing into the club aside from the 300m from Sir Jim.
 
We could technically buy now and then sell before June 30th to comply with PSR if we were over the limit. Just as Newcastle and Aston Villa did last year. It would likely mean taking a low-ball offer for someone though.

Even a £40m signing likely only costs £8-10m on PSR this year so it’s not like we don’t have the flexibility.

A lot of the talk around our spending is most likely about not overpaying for players.
 
lilcurt said:
I'm not sure where you live so this may not apply to you. But do you realise the UK imports oil from Qatar, that Qatar own or have significant interest in many renowned UK business?

I'm not a apologist for Qatar and I don't think they are "good". I'm just also not a hypocrit who virtue signals through football and then goes and puts their oil in my car, or takes a selfie outside Harrods in London.

When thinking about football I consider the football reprecutions, and while morally I don't approve of them, they would be better football club owners than Ratcliffe and the Glazers.
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States should not be owning football clubs. That's a red line for a lot of people.

That being said, Qatar/Jassim would have bought the club if there was the funds and/or willingness from them to do the deal.
 
spwd said:
Anyone?
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The debt could have been paid off many times over. The Glazers took dividends of around £75 million out year on year. Just a reminder they only ever invested £270million ever and before selling it off had over a billion in dividends.
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
You’re deluded if you think the current mess is just about being unlucky and not about the players being championship-level.
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Mate I am not gonna argue about how bad it is because it's absolutely grim and it's not been this bad since the 80's, but I will die on the hill that we are far, far better than we are showing. We won't go down but it's likely to get even grimmer in the short term, starting at Anfield this weekend I think.
 
Fts 74 said:
What a great idea - we spend years calling for City to be relegated for breaking the rules but now we're advocating Utd to do that.

I've heard it all.
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Not that we have the bandwidth to break rules (being so close to the relegation zone) but they're not the 10 Commandments for fecks sake. If you accept the consequences and/or there are any loopholes you'd be silly not to utilize whatever opportunities there are to improve the squad.
 
No reason to buy now. We won't get relegated and we won't qualify for Europe. No point hitting the panic button and making over-inflated bad January transfers that won't meaningfully help our situation. Back the manager this summer and buckle up for the remainder of the season.
 
Throwing money at the issue is not going to solve anything, the issue is deeply ingrained within the culture of the football club from top to bottom and has been there for years.

We need a realignment of standards at boardroom level before we touch the playing squad, that's how bad it is.
 
Lentwood said:
Why are we panicking? People talking about taking a points deduction NEXT season...for what purpose? How on Earth does that help?

What difference does it make if we finish 14th or 16th this season? Who cares? It was a write-off the moment we persisted with EtH.

Leave Amorim to embed his system, ship out the expensive flops and build in the Summer for a more successful season in 25/26
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Makes no difference, and I don't think we should panic and break the rules. Not least because I'm not convinced we have this never ending stream of money some seem to think we have.

But we can't assume we are safe and will finish 15th and won't drawn into a relegation scrap if we continue to be this bad.
 
You have to wonder with all the penny pinching and job cuts...how can United realistically build a new 2 billion pound stadium and still be active in the transfer window at the same time.

Plus I don't think any transfer can be kneejerk or reactionary any more.

Top 4 is gone for this season. Nobody can genuinely believe they are not 3 worse teams in the league than United so relegation is just football banter.

The best thing to do is plan for next season without Europe and use the January window to get rid of players like Rashford/Casemiro.
 
If we had signed more than about 1 player everyone could agree has been a success in the last decade, then maybe.
But knowing us we'd make a few more crazy signings, and just be -10 worse off.

Making the financial chaos even worse next season
 
Lentwood said:
Why are we panicking? People talking about taking a points deduction NEXT season...for what purpose? How on Earth does that help?

What difference does it make if we finish 14th or 16th this season? Who cares? It was a write-off the moment we persisted with EtH.

Leave Amorim to embed his system, ship out the expensive flops and build in the Summer for a more successful season in 25/26
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You're making the assumption that 16th is our rock bottom for some reason.
Our form is relegation form.
 
I say go for it. Worst come to worst, we will be relegated together with 115. More fans will watch Championship next season. At least watching us fighting for Championship title will be more exciting than getting pumped week in week out in the PL.
 
Steve 007 said:
The debt could have been paid off many times over. The Glazers took dividends of around £75 million out year on year. Just a reminder they only ever invested £270million ever and before selling it off had over a billion in dividends.
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Oh I know it could have been paid off or at least greatly reduced but I'd like to know how it's possible to pay it off whilst rebuilding the team and Carrington and the stadium.
What I mean is in theory could they both agree to pay an amount, say 150m each to reduce it or isn't that allowed under psr or any other restrictions?
I understand that Chelsea have some magical way of selling their unwanted players but how are they able to spend a billion? Is it just down to sales or has Boehly chucked all the money in out of his own pocket?
 
What consequential player is a team going to be willing to offload in the middle of the season? Occasionally it happens but it’s relatively rare.
 
Bondi77 said:
We are not doing business in January.....what is so hard to understand???
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No business? I don’t know if I’d be willing to go that far. There will probably be some players loaned out and possibly an inbound loan. But, I agree likely no business of major consequence.
 
lilcurt said:
What amazes me is that the fanbase asked for this.

We had a potential purchase option from Qatar that would have cleared the debt and invested in the squad and infrastructure. But instead we made it easy for thr Glazers to stay and choose Jim because he is English and a fan (despite trying to purchase Chelsea and Barca prior).

I know there would have still been PSR to contend with but that would be easier without debt repayments and if we could have cleared the £300m we owe clubs in transfers!
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You don’t mean Jassim do you?
 
PieCrust said:
No reason to buy now. We won't get relegated and we won't qualify for Europe. No point hitting the panic button and making over-inflated bad January transfers that won't meaningfully help our situation. Back the manager this summer and buckle up for the remainder of the season.
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It would seem silly not to at least try and get a LWB in. It’s such a gaping hole that it’s something that needs fixing even temporarily. Someone like Chilwell on loan even or a loan to buy option on someone else.
 
lilcurt said:
What amazes me is that the fanbase asked for this.

We had a potential purchase option from Qatar that would have cleared the debt and invested in the squad and infrastructure. But instead we made it easy for thr Glazers to stay and choose Jim because he is English and a fan (despite trying to purchase Chelsea and Barca prior).

I know there would have still been PSR to contend with but that would be easier without debt repayments and if we could have cleared the £300m we owe clubs in transfers!
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And maybe the Qatari would have taken over the club and bring Moyes back as manager.

Just because things would have been easier financially doesn't mean it would have been a good takeover.
 
Bondi77 said:
We are not doing business in January.....what is so hard to understand???
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We were briefed nonsense about tiny summer budgets too and still spent a small fortune. I’d be hugely shocked if we don’t bring in at least one player. If Casemiro or Rashford leaves it could even be 2/3.
 
Daily_Blind said:
No business? I don’t know if I’d be willing to go that far. There will probably be some players loaned out and possibly an inbound loan. But, I agree likely no business of major consequence.
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I would agree with the loaning of players out if we were not still in Europe but you must have heard Ruben say on countless occasions that he has to rotate players purely with the amount of games that we have and he cannot risk anymore injuries.
 
Bondi77 said:
I would agree with the loaning of players out if we were not still in Europe but you must have heard Ruben say on countless occasions that he has to rotate players purely with the amount of games that we have and he cannot risk anymore injuries.
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I’m talking about minor players who rarely feature in the first team.
 
pcaming said:
We will be relegated guaranteed with a points deduction.
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This is a good point.

At the same time, if we don't add at least couple players in key positions (wingbacks! especially left one!) we may not win enough games to not float close to relegation or even the unthinkable. So, it's hard to tell if we will be better off as a team who can win + points deducted or a shit team that we are now. Problem is, if we violate PSR intentionally, FA will try to make an example of us and will go very hard on us, so who knows how many points they will deduct. There is no formulaic number, is there?

All that said, MANY of us think we can buy even without violating PSR. Berrada was brought in to be good, if he is good, he needs to manage to sell some players (like Garna, Case, Zirkzee) and buy the ones we need
 
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