[Rossa]

This, you basically have to carry him for 90% of matches. If you want to lose your mind, watch the central part of the park for about 15 mins. What you'll see is the opposition bait McTominay into passionately closing down in an attempt to win a ball he's never going to win, then 2 passes later the ball is behind him, and he's in the centre circle leaving the other CMF alone against numbers. It happens every couple of minutes.

It's great that he's scoring and defending his own box. But we should have forwards who do the former and defenders who do the latter.

Agree with this - 90% of the time he's more a liability to the team. His awareness without the ball is atrocious. Either he is hiding from the ball, or when chasing players he often reacts too slowly, and then peple praise him for running a little, but in fact he is sprinting too late.

Looking at his stats, he's not really that impressive in terms of scoring except for this season.

 

[Rossa]

Can't disagree with anything you've said, but I still think he contributes enough to warrant a place in the squad. If he expects to start every week, I think he should move on, but if he's happy being part of a squad and putting in the odd performance, he should stay.

If he is fine with only coming on as a sub and the occasional start against cannon fodder, then I agree that he is a useful squad player.

 

[Ole's screen]

If he is fine with only coming on as a sub and the occasional start against cannon fodder, then I agree that he is a useful squad player.

You've got it backwards. He needs to be a sub against cannon fodder but start against the big teams. That's where he shines.

 

[Rossa]

You've got it backwards. He needs to be a sub against cannon fodder but start against the big teams. That's where he shines.

Playing him in midfield against the best teams is surrendering control. Not sure we should do that going forwards. Again, his numbers have been good this season, but previously they aren't much to brag about either. Will he replicate his scoring form going forwards, or will he revert back to what he has done previously? His game remains the same - a non entity in central midfield.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Playing him in midfield against the best teams is surrendering control. Not sure we should do that going forwards. Again, his numbers have been good this season, but previously they aren't much to brag about either. Will he replicate his scoring form going forwards, or will he revert back to what he has done previously? His game remains the same - a non entity in central midfield.

We can't control big games against the best teams though. - the only portion of yesterdays game that was "controlled" came for about 30 minutes in the second half where Liverpool just passed it around us at ease

If anything our best chance in these games comes when it becomes chaotic, when we're running on momentum/vibes and both teams are just going for it.

 

[11101]

Is his nose for goal enough to offset the lack of actual midfield ability? Personally i think not though without Casemiro we're light on alternatives in midfield.

He's the perfect player for a mid/lower table team that scraps away on counter attacks.

 

[Oranges038]

Such a weird player, he's effectively a non entity as a midfielder in general play, non existent between the boxes, but was good at defending his own 18, could have had 2 or 3 goals and sets up the equalizer.

Can't fault him for effort, but there's no way a club that's serious about moving forward and trying to control midfield and possession can afford to keep a place for him in the team long term.

 

[Vidooq]

Was shocked that he actually found his team mates the majority of the time today and was sure he was going to shoot for Rashfords goal.

If he can put those kind of performances in more regularly, it would be a boon. He's slowly coming off the sell list for me, as will be a great squad player.

If you see the video from the goal, he actually got a cramp, and I think it's the only thing that prevented him from taking the shot.

 

[Rossa]

We can't control big games against the best teams though. - the only portion of yesterdays game that was "controlled" came for about 30 minutes in the second half where Liverpool just passed it around us at ease

If anything our best chance in these games comes when it becomes chaotic, when we're running on momentum/vibes and both teams are just going for it.

That's where we are currently at, but is that where we want to be? That is the question, to control or not to control... McTominay is not part of a team that seeks to control matches.

Against Liverpool, we conceded three fluke goals - and that will continue as long as we let the opposition bombard us with 20-30 shots every match.

 

[Bobski]

People criticizing his scoring record pre this season while ignoring the fecking blatantly obvious positional change that is the key factor in that is peak Cafe.

His Scotland scoring ain't great either, and it doesn't matter that he played half his games for them at CB, another thing he was shat on for.

 

[Borys]

He is an actual midfielder, thats his position since academy days.

And yet this is his breakthrough season in attacker, almost second striker role.

 

[bosnian_red]

Playing him in midfield against the best teams is surrendering control. Not sure we should do that going forwards. Again, his numbers have been good this season, but previously they aren't much to brag about either. Will he replicate his scoring form going forwards, or will he revert back to what he has done previously? His game remains the same - a non entity in central midfield.

He's not a starter though, he's a squad player and an incredibly useful one to have around as he regularly shows. Whether the plan is to eventually control games (doesn't seem like it to me) or not, it's not defined by squad players. The squad guys like him are there to step in when needed, have an impact, have the right attitude, be the type of player who can actually make an instant impact in a variety of roles and he fits that perfectly.

 

[Rossa]

He's not a starter though, he's a squad player and an incredibly useful one to have around as he regularly shows. Whether the plan is to eventually control games (doesn't seem like it to me) or not, it's not defined by squad players. The squad guys like him are there to step in when needed, have an impact, have the right attitude, be the type of player who can actually make an instant impact in a variety of roles and he fits that perfectly.

If he is indeed a squad player, then fine, but he starts far too many matches to be labelled thus.

 

[Rossa]

People criticizing his scoring record pre this season while ignoring the fecking blatantly obvious positional change that is the key factor in that is peak Cafe.

His Scotland scoring ain't great either, and it doesn't matter that he played half his games for them at CB, another thing he was shat on for.

It's relevant because people argue he's a goal scoring midfielder. He's not really able to perform the role of a midfielder and be a scoring machine. He isn't good as a ten either. Nor can he play as a striker. He's good when there's chaos, so not sure what your argument is?

 

[Bobski]

It's relevant because people argue he's a goal scoring midfielder. He's not really able to perform the role of a midfielder and be a scoring machine. He isn't good as a ten either. Nor can he play as a striker. He's good when there's chaos, so not sure what your argument is?

He is a goal-scoring midfielder, when played in a role that gives him license to make the runs that goal-scoring midfielders make. Judge him on what he is being asked to do, as a box attacking midfielder for Ten Hag he has been very effective, using previous seasons when he played in different roles and was less effective as a means to downplay his performances this season is pointless, and frankly mean spirited.

 

[bosnian_red]

If he is indeed a squad player, then fine, but he starts far too many matches to be labelled thus.

He starts due to injuries. He's obviously not in our strongest 11 and has spells on the bench when people are fit. When Casemiro is out, he'll start to provide energy and a big physical presence and be a set piece presence in Casemiros absence. When we have no fit strikers, he'll start as again, he can be a physical presence and makes great runs into the box and can come up with those moments. Unfortunately... We've had hojlund often out, Casemiro out for half the season, and Martial is always injured. So mctominay logically goes in.

 

[matherto]

I think if we fill the squad up with starting midfielders then he has a spot as a back up easily.

If we don't address the midfield properly then we can't rely on him to start all the time so weirdly we should sell....which would then hopefully bring in more midfielders...in which case he should have a spot....erm

 

[Mike Smalling]

Is his nose for goal enough to offset the lack of actual midfield ability? Personally i think not though without Casemiro we're light on alternatives in midfield.

He's the perfect player for a mid/lower table team that scraps away on counter attacks.

In the vast majority of games, clearly not. There have been examples of games in the past that have been end-to-end, where he looks amazing, but they are few and far between and they are hard to predict.

I don't mind him in the squad next year as an option from the bench and cover for some of the easier cup ties. On the other hand, if a good offer comes in from a mid-table Premier League club, we should obviously consider it.

 

[Rossa]

He is a goal-scoring midfielder, when played in a role that gives him license to make the runs that goal-scoring midfielders make. Judge him on what he is being asked to do, as a box attacking midfielder for Ten Hag he has been very effective, using previous seasons when he played in different roles and was less effective as a means to downplay his performances this season is pointless, and frankly mean spirited.

His only season at United where he is scoring goals is this season. He's 27, so perhaps some historical context is needed. It's like saying Herrera scored goals as a midfielder because he had 6 goals in one season.

 

[Lash]

If you see the video from the goal, he actually got a cramp, and I think it's the only thing that prevented him from taking the shot.

, god's plan.

 

[Cassidy]

Do you think the stats that I provided were impressive? He's had a good goal scoring record this season, but not so much previous seasons. He contributes very little as a central midfielder, so overall I just don't see him as good enough. If you do, fine, but I am yet to be convinced.

I don’t think we should keep him. But quite obviously ETH has found a way for him to significantly contribute this season in both boxes

 

[Bobski]

His only season at United where he is scoring goals is this season. He's 27, so perhaps some historical context is needed. It's like saying Herrera scored goals as a midfielder because he had 6 goals in one season.

Well yes, that is the whole point.

Scott when played as a DM or as part of a deep 2, not really a consistent scoring threat unless against Leeds.

Scott when played in AM for Utd, threat, not just on the scoring numbers but the consistency of his ability to get on the end of things

Scott when played at CB or DM for Scotland, not a threat.

Scott when played as an AM for Scotland, threat

If you are going to criticize his previous scoring record I think it is only fair to give proper context for those numbers and acknowledge the different roles he has played.

 

[Rossa]

Well yes, that is the whole point.

Scott when played as a DM or as part of a deep 2, not really a consistent scoring threat unless against Leeds.

Scott when played in AM for Utd, threat, not just on the scoring numbers but the consistency of his ability to get on the end of things

Scott when played at CB or DM for Scotland, not a threat.

Scott when played as an AM for Scotland, threat

If you are going to criticize his previous scoring record I think it is only fair to give proper context for those numbers and acknowledge the different roles he has played.

You assume I criticised it? I didn't - I merely stated that he hasn't been a goal scoring midfielder for United in previous seasons. As an AM, he's not creative, he doesn't get many assists, and he contributes very little elsewhere, as well as forcing Bruno to play further back, which arguably suits him less.

 

[Rossa]

I don’t think we should keep him. But quite obviously ETH has found a way for him to significantly contribute this season in both boxes

Well, then I think we agree. I still think that we should sell him before next season, and I think he will have attracted some attention thus increasing his price. He's an academy lad, and he appears nothing but a good one, but I just find his overall play too limited going forwards.

 

[Sylar]

If used as a squad player, hes fine. The problem as most have said is when he becomes that starter for us in a lot of games. Especially right in the middle of the pitch.

Agree with this - 90% of the time he's more a liability to the team. His awareness without the ball is atrocious. Either he is hiding from the ball, or when chasing players he often reacts too slowly, and then peple praise him for running a little, but in fact he is sprinting too late.

Looking at his stats, he's not really that impressive in terms of scoring except for this season.

When chasing back, he jogs at times which is infuriating, because its not the tiredness or anything, its him, as he does it a lot.

Saying that, good awareness in the oppositions box and almost has double digit goals this season (he should achieve that easily).

 

[moses]

Yesterday's chaos suited him. He'll never help us control games.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

After this, and others like it... is it fair to say that McT has the best knee slide in the business right now?

He always gets great distance.

 

[Cantona’s Kung Fu Kick]

His only season at United where he is scoring goals is this season. He's 27, so perhaps some historical context is needed. It's like saying Herrera scored goals as a midfielder because he had 6 goals in one season.

Exactly this, it’s a myth that he’s somehow morphed into a goal scoring midfielder. He has literally done in one season only and even that isn’t particularly remarkable. He’s got a total of 9 goals. Steve Bruce once got 13 league goals in a season to put McTomminey’s performance into some perspective . Didn’t make him a goal scorer either. And he’s not a squad player either, he’s played over 240 times for the first team which makes a regular and he should be judged as such. The acceptance of this sort of mediocrity is why we are light years behind City, Liverpool and Arsenal. He’s got no business being a Manchester United player unless our standard is West Ham which I fear it now is.

 

[mu4c_20le]

His only season at United where he is scoring goals is this season. He's 27, so perhaps some historical context is needed. It's like saying Herrera scored goals as a midfielder because he had 6 goals in one season.

Weird post when he's been scoring goals in every season from the DM position, it's only this one where he's given more of a license to go forward, or come off the bench to play up front, where he's been even more effective.

And Herrera always scored goals as a midfielder, and continued to do so for two years after coming here before we coached it out of him.

 

[Ali Dia]

Such a weird player, he's effectively a non entity as a midfielder in general play, non existent between the boxes, but was good at defending his own 18, could have had 2 or 3 goals and sets up the equalizer.

Can't fault him for effort, but there's no way a club that's serious about moving forward and trying to control midfield and possession can afford to keep a place for him in the team long term.

I don’t like the way he plays midfield at all but I have to say that he is improving. He’s imposing himself on games far better than ever before. We used to get the odd crazy game where he would be everywhere and get a goal or even two. It’s starting to happen more often now. I guess I misread his ceiling. Seems like a good guy who loves the club too. Everyone from the manager down kind of redeemed themselves yesterday. Managers subs were spot on. Rashford looked like he gave a feck. AWB at left back plugging away. Antony, Amad and Onana were all really good. Strange game. I’m still buzzing to be honest

 

[Bobski]

Exactly this, it’s a myth that he’s somehow morphed into a goal scoring midfielder. He has literally done in one season only and even that isn’t particularly remarkable. He’s got a total of 9 goals. Steve Bruce once got 13 league goals in a season to put McTomminey’s performance into some perspective . Didn’t make him a goal scorer either. And he’s not a squad player either, he’s played over 240 times for the first team which makes a regular and he should be judged as such. The acceptance of this sort of mediocrity is why we are light years behind City, Liverpool and Arsenal. He’s got no business being a Manchester United player unless our standard is West Ham which I fear it now is.

Steve Bruce not a goalscorer? 114 goals in 929 career games, 52 in 417 games for Utd. I guess scoring goals doesn't actually make you a goalscorer. To be fair quite a lot were pens.

And again, another person ignoring the fact that is literally the first season in McT's career were he has played in a mainly attacking role. I don't get why people can't bring themselves to acknowledge this when downplaying his scoring record. You can be critical of the player, think he should be moved on and still give him credit for what he has been able to do this season, they don't exclude each other.

 

[Cantona’s Kung Fu Kick]

Steve Bruce not a goalscorer? 114 goals in 929 career games, 52 in 417 games for Utd. I guess scoring goals doesn't actually make you a goalscorer. To be fair quite a lot were pens.

And again, another person ignoring the fact that is literally the first season in McT's career were he has played in a mainly attacking role. I don't get why people can't bring themselves to acknowledge this when downplaying his scoring record. You can be critical of the player, think he should be moved on and still give him credit for what he has been able to do this season, they don't exclude each other.

Steve Bruce is remembered primarily as a centre half not as a goal scorer, that was the point as that’s what he was. He scored quite a lot for someone who played at the back which was a bonus. McTomminey is now apparently primarily a goal scorer according to some. He’s scored 9 goals this season, 4 of which have come in 2 games. It hardly counts as prolific, especially for someone who is now playing in an advanced position and who offers practically nothing else.

 

[Diamond Chap]

Exactly this, it’s a myth that he’s somehow morphed into a goal scoring midfielder. He has literally done in one season only and even that isn’t particularly remarkable. He’s got a total of 9 goals. Steve Bruce once got 13 league goals in a season to put McTomminey’s performance into some perspective . Didn’t make him a goal scorer either. And he’s not a squad player either, he’s played over 240 times for the first team which makes a regular and he should be judged as such. The acceptance of this sort of mediocrity is why we are light years behind City, Liverpool and Arsenal. He’s got no business being a Manchester United player unless our standard is West Ham which I fear it now is.

It was hardly a mediocre performance.
There are others in the team who are our 'top' players who regularly deliver mediocrity and seem to get a pass.
Good result. Let's be positive and learn how to spell McTominay.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Funniest thread. A load of people that thought they had an iron clad Scape goat, who keeps scoring, being a big player in important matches, and making them look foolish. He has had great moments in a united career that is more than half over. He connects with manager after manager. He is a squad player, just relax and accept it.

 

[Rossa]

Weird post when he's been scoring goals in every season from the DM position, it's only this one where he's given more of a license to go forward, or come off the bench to play up front, where he's been even more effective.

And Herrera always scored goals as a midfielder, and continued to do so for two years after coming here before we coached it out of him.

It's a completely different thing scoring a few goals than being a goal scorer. Looking at the stats below, I would argue he's not a squad player as he simply plays too many matches - he's a regular if not an automatic starter. He has 273 matches for United, 31 goals (19 in the PL) and 8 assists (4 in the PL). He's simply not creative, nor would I label him a goal scorer over the course of his career. His output this season is quite good, and decent in 20/21, but none of them are spectactular. Considering how little he contributes in our overall play and how he completely lacks in creativity and assists, which he has shown during the course of his career, I'd strongly argue that his output isn't worth it. He was good against Liverpool, and he has his uses, but going forward, I think he should be sold this Summer. I actually think the reason we talk about his goals is because there is a genuine lack of goals elsewhere. United should have 20+ goal scorers, but this year we will be looking to get anyone over 10 in the PL.

Ander Herrera has 43 goals in 537 matches - not what I would call a typical goal scorer. 11 goals in LaLiga in 191 matches and 12 goals in 132 matches in the PL.

Season - all competitions (Premier League in brackets)	Goals (Premier league in brackets)	Assists
23/24 (34)	9 (7)	3
22/23 (39)	3 (1)	1
21/22 (37)	2 (1)	1
20/21 (49)	7 (4)	2
19/20 (37)	5 (4)	1
18/19 (22)	2 (2)	0

 

[Rossa]

Exactly this, it’s a myth that he’s somehow morphed into a goal scoring midfielder. He has literally done in one season only and even that isn’t particularly remarkable. He’s got a total of 9 goals. Steve Bruce once got 13 league goals in a season to put McTomminey’s performance into some perspective . Didn’t make him a goal scorer either. And he’s not a squad player either, he’s played over 240 times for the first team which makes a regular and he should be judged as such. The acceptance of this sort of mediocrity is why we are light years behind City, Liverpool and Arsenal. He’s got no business being a Manchester United player unless our standard is West Ham which I fear it now is.

It is a myth. People may go on about his previous positions, but it was mostly Fred who played as the DM, and McTominay played as an 8, or wherever he was on the pitch. My biggest concern is that people talk about him as being a prolific goal scorer, and we should keep him because of this. As an attacking midfielder, he scores a few goals here and there, but not consistently. He isn't creative. He doesn't create chances for others. He is incapable of going past anyone. He isn't good at linking up play, finding pockets of space etc. The only thing he is good at is timing his runs into the box. If he scored the number of goals Lampard did, I'd say it is worth it - hence why I mentioned Lampard. He doesn't.

 

[Rossa]

I don’t like the way he plays midfield at all but I have to say that he is improving. He’s imposing himself on games far better than ever before. We used to get the odd crazy game where he would be everywhere and get a goal or even two. It’s starting to happen more often now. I guess I misread his ceiling. Seems like a good guy who loves the club too. Everyone from the manager down kind of redeemed themselves yesterday. Managers subs were spot on. Rashford looked like he gave a feck. AWB at left back plugging away. Antony, Amad and Onana were all really good. Strange game. I’m still buzzing to be honest

We're all happy when players play well, but we also have this tendency to rethink much too quickly. When Maguire was playing well, people talked about keeping him - when McTominay scores a few goals, he is good enough going forwards. Antony scores a goal and should have another season to prove himself.

This thinking is exactly why we are where we are. McTominay is a very decent player who deserves to be playing regularly at a midtable team. If he accepts being our go to solution when games are scrappy, then OK, but how many other teams have a similar profile player they turn to when chasing a goal?

 

[Desert Eagle]

It's a completely different thing scoring a few goals than being a goal scorer. Looking at the stats below, I would argue he's not a squad player as he simply plays too many matches - he's a regular if not an automatic starter. He has 273 matches for United, 31 goals (19 in the PL) and 8 assists (4 in the PL). He's simply not creative, nor would I label him a goal scorer over the course of his career. His output this season is quite good, and decent in 20/21, but none of them are spectactular. Considering how little he contributes in our overall play and how he completely lacks in creativity and assists, which he has shown during the course of his career, I'd strongly argue that his output isn't worth it. He was good against Liverpool, and he has his uses, but going forward, I think he should be sold this Summer. I actually think the reason we talk about his goals is because there is a genuine lack of goals elsewhere. United should have 20+ goal scorers, but this year we will be looking to get anyone over 10 in the PL.

Ander Herrera has 43 goals in 537 matches - not what I would call a typical goal scorer. 11 goals in LaLiga in 191 matches and 12 goals in 132 matches in the PL.

Season - all competitions (Premier League in brackets)	Goals (Premier league in brackets)	Assists
23/24 (34)	9 (7)	3
22/23 (39)	3 (1)	1
21/22 (37)	2 (1)	1
20/21 (49)	7 (4)	2
19/20 (37)	5 (4)	1
18/19 (22)	2 (2)	0

The fact that he starts is directly related to how shit we've been recently. He could be kept as a squad option but we should take any decent offer for him.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The fact that he starts is directly related to how shit we've been recently. He could be kept as a squad option but we should take any decent offer for him.

I’m not completely sure of this after his fight back this season, he’s every bit the squad player Fergie would’ve absolutely adored. Does he start too often? Absolutely. Is he a fighter, a goal threat and a proper influence in the squad, no question.

 

[JeffFromHK]

If he accepts being a goalscoring impact sub on low wage, we can keep him for 1-2 more seasons before selling him to a lower PL team or a Scottish team