[romufc]

Rashford, Pogba, and Martial have worse average ratings than McTominay. Are we seriously saying he has been better than them?

He isnt. The reason for his ratings is that pre Bruno we couldnt score goals. We couldn't create chances hence the strikers were feeding of scraps and when they got the ball they would have a crowd of defenders and lose the ball. Rashford had a tough spell playing as the striker when Martial was injured.

McTominay scored some good goals in big games and in midfield was putting in the effort. The rating is not a barometer of how good he is, moreso how well he has played in accordance to his ability.

 

[Untd55]

We played worse when Pogba and Fernandes came off and the game was already won?

Stop the presses.

This is exactly what I mean. It is like people just want to ignore the massive drop off in quality between Pogba and McTominay, and will come up with any excuses to bury the idea that McTominay is an average player. We didn't just drop performance a bit, we dropped a lot.

There is usually a drop off between squad players and those in the first team, but it should not be that much in a team like Manchester United. He needs replacing. I hope those rumours of Van de Beek are true; it is more of the quality we need on the bench.

McTominay at best could end up as a utility player.

 

[Untd55]

He isnt. The reason for his ratings is that pre Bruno we couldnt score goals. We couldn't create chances hence the strikers were feeding of scraps and when they got the ball they would have a crowd of defenders and lose the ball. Rashford had a tough spell playing as the striker when Martial was injured.

McTominay scored some good goals in big games and in midfield was putting in the effort. The rating is not a barometer of how good he is, moreso how well he has played in accordance to his ability.

Is effort enough to get the highest rating of our players before Fernandes?

The thing is people do not seem to coincide McTominay being a first-team midfielder in some of our worst midfield performances in Premier League history. We were poor both in defence and attack in midfield.

Conceded in 17 of 19 games before Matic returned to the first team (23 goals conceded). Since Matic's return, we have only conceded 8 goals in 12 with
Fernandes has contributed to this as well, but definitely not

In terms of attack, we scored 30 goals in 19 games with zero assists and very few key passes from our midfielders. It seems like our attack had to create everything themselves, so it is no wonder they were struggling.

I'm not blaming him for all of it, but he must be apportioned blame because he is supposed to be a box-to-box midfielder or a defensive midfielder. If he is neither creating nor defending then can he be doing a good job? It suspiciously sounds like he does not contribute much at all. I still think he should be in lower categories of ratings.

 

[flappyjay]

McTominay is a good player but Fred is better. I think Fred is getting hard done by here, by a bit of favoritism.

I think Fred needs a few games to get in his groove but yeah when in form he is the better of the 2. I feel sorry for them because had they not stepped up in Pogba and Matic's absence we would probably be far from a ucl spot. Now they gotta make due with minutes here and there since Europa is in August.

 

[Mcking]

Is effort enough to get the highest rating of our players before Fernandes?

The thing is people do not seemO to coincide McTominay being a first-team midfielder in some of our worst midfield performances in Premier League history. We were poor both in defence and attack in midfield.

Conceded in 17 of 19 games before Matic returned to the first team (23 goals conceded). Since Matic's return, we have only conceded 8 goals in 12 with
Fernandes has contributed to this as well, but definitely not

In terms of attack, we scored 30 goals in 19 games with zero assists and very few key passes from our midfielders. It seems like our attack had to create everything themselves, so it is no wonder they were struggling.

I'm not blaming him for all of it, but he must be apportioned blame because he is supposed to be a box-to-box midfielder or a defensive midfielder. If he is neither creating nor defending then can he be doing a good job? It suspiciously sounds like he does not contribute much at all. I still think he should be in lower categories of ratings.

Yeah, virtually every period he's been a regular, the team has been bang average as a whole. Last season with Ole as caretaker, we were doing very well with Matic and Herrera in midfield, but when McTominay came in around that PSG game, we couldn't buy a win anymore. We began this season with him as a starter and were nothing special until he got injured and Matic and Bruno came into the team, we've been very good since then. I'd like to see a definite spreadsheet that shows our performances with him and without him since his debut.
I'm not trying to say it's all his own doing, but I don't know why he's so highly rated. He's not much better than the average midfielder individually, and the team's performances doesn't seem to be much better than average when he plays either. I'm of the opinion that if you stick someone like McArthur over him in the squad, the difference would be insignificant. If you put him in the Palace squad over McArthur, the difference would be insignificant too.
He could 'do a job' in midfield, but there are hundreds of footballers who could 'do a job' in midfield too, even those that aren't midfielders. That phrase shouldn't be used to defend him, it should be used to dismiss him.

 

[Idxomer]

Do you want to see how mediocre McTominay usually is? Observe his movement and positioning in our third of the pitch when we don't have the ball, they're just comical most of the time. Or when we get the ball and in 2 seconds he just gets himself under pressure for no reason. I don't fault him for his deficiencies though, because most of what he wants to do are the right ideas and he tries hard. The thing is his forced style and technique mean he needs to be 100% at his best to make use of his presence and that's only useful in big games when he has clear instructions to do a specific job. He will never be a Carrick or a Matic because controlling a game is second nature to them, they never think about it and McTominay has to pre-think every decision he makes.

 

[Beachryan]

I like him and think he's better than most on here are making out, but he does need to improve his positioning a lot of he wants to be a first choice. He has a suicidal tendency to get on the wrong side of opposition midfielders in our half - as per one of the two good Brighton chances. He's too aggressive, gets too close and then one move and he's left our defense exposed. If he's the deepest midfield that mistake can be game-changing.

Something Carrick and Matic are excellent at is knowing when to challenge and when not to. It's a crucial skill if you're not Kante and able to get around the pitch like a maniac for 90 minutes.

In the end, he's still very new to his role in midfield, has shown some good characteristics and will be our player for at least the next few seasons. He's also getting better. Let's see where he is in another season.

 

[Mcking]

Do you want to see how mediocre McTominay usually is? Observe his movement and positioning in our third of the pitch when we don't have the ball, they're just comical most of the time. Or when we get the ball and in 2 seconds he just gets himself under pressure for no reason. I don't fault him for his deficiencies though, because most of what he wants to do are the right ideas and he tries hard. The thing is his forced style and technique mean he needs to be 100% at his best to make use of his presence and that's only useful in big games when he has clear instructions to do a specific job. He will never be a Carrick or a Matic because controlling a game is second nature to them, they never think about it and McTominay has to pre-think every decision he makes.

He's a player who has fashioned himself as a premier league midfielder, rather than one who has a great deal of talent. I have seen many who said he's a good passer and pointed at a few medium-long balls he plays, but that only adds to his oversung status.
On the ball, his technique isn't good enough. He controls the ball into his body which means he needs an extra touch most times and is quite easy to close down. He needs too much time on the ball. He doesn't position well when we have the ball either which means he seems on the periphery when we progress the ball.
Despite being fairly unadventurous with his passing, he passes in the seventies, and a lot of the actual completed ones seem to be away from the stride of the receiver, under-hit or over-hit - he just about does enough to get it to the target. He's a player who does just about enough, and just about enough seems to be just about enough when it comes to McTominay. He doesn't offer creativity, he doesn't offer control, he does the bare minimum which isn't good enough IMO, certainly not good enough to warrant the praise he gets from some. His defensive game isn't good enough to overlook these deficiencies either.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Do you want to see how mediocre McTominay usually is? Observe his movement and positioning in our third of the pitch when we don't have the ball, they're just comical most of the time. Or when we get the ball and in 2 seconds he just gets himself under pressure for no reason. I don't fault him for his deficiencies though, because most of what he wants to do are the right ideas and he tries hard. The thing is his forced style and technique mean he needs to be 100% at his best to make use of his presence and that's only useful in big games when he has clear instructions to do a specific job. He will never be a Carrick or a Matic because controlling a game is second nature to them, they never think about it and McTominay has to pre-think every decision he makes.

I agree with most of what you said. I'd like someone to tell me what Mctominay adds to the team when we are attacking. He plays box to box but brings nothing in attack. It's quite shocking actually when I think about it.

That said I do think he adds something to the squad. When I think of Mctominay and what he adds to the team in general I think energy, intensity, aggression and his ball winning abilities. I think we should mould him into an Ndidi. Ndidi is also quite average on the ball but is an energetic ball winner like Mctominay is. Mctominay can be the destroyer behind Bruno and Pogba with his main focus on winning the ball. I think he has all the qualities off the ball to be that type of player except positioning which can be learnt. Theres no point expecting him to add what Matic or Pogba adds to the team because he doesn't have the ability to do close to what they are doing.

 

[Stobzilla]

This is exactly what I mean. It is like people just want to ignore the massive drop off in quality between Pogba and McTominay, and will come up with any excuses to bury the idea that McTominay is an average player. We didn't just drop performance a bit, we dropped a lot.

There is usually a drop off between squad players and those in the first team, but it should not be that much in a team like Manchester United. He needs replacing. I hope those rumours of Van de Beek are true; it is more of the quality we need on the bench.

McTominay at best could end up as a utility player.

Pointing out the glaringly obvious is now indicitive of blind bias towards a youth prospect ? Riiiiiight.

 

[Rozay]

Pointing out the glaringly obvious is now indicitive of blind bias towards a youth prospect ? Riiiiiight.

There has been clear bias towards him on here. Gross overrating this season. Earlier on in the season I had row after tow on here about it, but fell back because I was clearly going against the consensus and it became pointless. Some of the things I’ve read on here this season:

- One of the best midfielders in the league
- He’s an £80m player
- In our top 10 academy products (ever, by the way)
- Fred is playing well because Scott is ‘making him look good’
- Better than Matic

And after a while, there were clear semantics being thrown out to strongly imply that he was better than Pogba. At the time, there was a tiny minority of posters who disagreed with these views, and were of course simply told that we ‘hate McTominay’.

He is what he is, and he isn’t what he isn’t. He can be a player for games where we step on to the pitch with an inferiority complex (of which I think we should all hope will become less and less).

Other than that, although no fault of his own, as he was the best we had available - he was a large reason behind why we struggled in the first half of the season. He did his bit, but it isn’t good enough. He has great character, heart, attitude and the rest - but how does that help us win a game against a Burnley, Watford and the rest whose players also have those things? We had reduced our midfield of Scott, Fred and Pereira, in terms of talent - to the equal of almost every team in the league. Of course results would be up and down then, if our game plan was simply to outfight them. These teams usually lose to better ones because despite being able to match them for effort, they cannot for quality.

We lost 2-0 to Watford in December who lined up with Capoue, Will Hughes and Doucoure in midfield. Scott, Pereira and co aren’t better than any of those players, and they will also fight. I’m not blaming him, at all, because he shouldn’t be in the lineup every week, and through a combination of recruitment and injuries, he was - my issue was with all the cheerleaders insisting it was enough at the time.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Pointing out the glaringly obvious is now indicitive of blind bias towards a youth prospect ? Riiiiiight.

To be fair mate McTominay is massively overrated on here. There is definitely some extra bias towards him. I’ve seen people on here saying he’s better than Pogba & walks into City’s midfield.

I like Scott & I know he’s a redcafe darling but there is a bit of delusion going on when it comes to him.

 

[SAFMUTD]

It seems there's no fair middle in here, he's either the second comming of Cruyff or completely useless. He's a really likeable player, plays with passion and determination, but he's not good enough at the moment to be anything more than a squad player, the quality difference between him and Pogba/Bruno is undeniable but to go as far as calling him useless is way to much. I dont think he'll ever become a top midfielder but he can reach a decent/good level to be around in a title challenging squad hopefully here.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He is overrated on here of course but he's also proven he's a good squad option.

 

[andersj]

Interesting comment from OGS today, stating that he is an option to Nemanja. Differs from what he said one year ago, but makes sense.

Compared to Nemanja, I do not think he is as poor or limited on the ball as a few makes out. I actually think he is good at protecting the ball and taking players on. This is also reflected in stats when you look at amount of fouls he get and dribles he makes (combined with high success ratio).

His passing needs to improve. And it will. He has played less than 5 000 minutes and is very inexperienced still. People seem to forget. Matic at the same age could not get a game for Chelsea, only had a loan at Vitesse and was in and out of the team at Benfica.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

What were Ole's comments last year @andersj?

Ive said it before that I feel McTominay is being groomed for that role. As you said, his ability to drive with the ball is somewhat similar to Matic. Off the ball, I have no problems, and earlier on in the year, I felt he and Pogba in the pivot did a good job.

His passing needs to improve. He has the ability to switch the ball, but I want to see being more adventoirous at times. Trying to find that pass in between the lines.


Going forward, I'd want to see how the trio of McTominay, Pogba and Bruno fare.

 

[Andycoleno9]

This is exactly what I mean. It is like people just want to ignore the massive drop off in quality between Pogba and McTominay, and will come up with any excuses to bury the idea that McTominay is an average player. We didn't just drop performance a bit, we dropped a lot.

There is usually a drop off between squad players and those in the first team, but it should not be that much in a team like Manchester United. He needs replacing. I hope those rumours of Van de Beek are true; it is more of the quality we need on the bench.

McTominay at best could end up as a utility player.

I agree with you that McT is average player at best and not United quality but IF the rumours are true (which i doubt) Fred will lose minutes, not McT. We just gave him a new 5y contract and lets be realistic, Ole loves him.

Only position in which he should play is defensive midfielder. If he works on his passing ability and technique overall then he can be decent backup player there because of his work rate and strength. But for central midfielder he will never be good enough (for United standard)

 

[FrankDrebin]

Fred and McTom tidy but totally uninspiring.

 

[#07]

If Scott wants to be our #6 long term he will have to improve his positioning. He doesn't seem to know where he needs to be and when. He came on and instantly started trying to press high in midfield. Whereas Matic was dropping in to make the third centre back, Scott went off racing after players. It made Lindelof and Maguire look more flat footed cos they couldn't outnumber the Villa press when trying to play out, and it made our midfield look rickety cos it left gaps for Villa to move into. Needs to spend some time speaking to Carrick and watching videos of him.

 

[cyberman]

Unless im blind that was no different than Matics performance?
Who hasnt had the best couple of game I might add. Teams are starting to see the whites of our defenders eyes now

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Fine performance.
But I was expecting more.

Similar to Williams, did Ole instructed them to "play it safe"?

 

[Rozay]

Don’t think there’s any grounds for criticism at all last night tbh. He did as well as expected of him. We didn’t look as good in the deeper area when Pogba moved forward that is true, but he shouldn’t be expected to just be Pogba when he comes on. He didn’t let us down.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Stagnated.

 

[Augustus Gloop]

Should have came on way sooner.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Midfielder without technique and skill. Only in United.

 

[Cassidy]

Should have came on way sooner.

Why? He offered nothing

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Should have came on way sooner.

Agreed. He would have got stuck in at the very least.

He had 8 minutes, what exactly are people expecting?

 

[Cassidy]

Agreed. He would have got stuck in at the very least.

He had 8 minutes, what exactly are people expecting?

In which DDG had to pull off a wonder save and we also conceded. He hardly sured up the midfield like he was brought on to do

 

[Idxomer]

Can't blame him much for today but he was an unnecessary sub.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

In which DDG had to pull off a wonder save and we also conceded. He hardly sured up the midfield like he was brought on to do

Well we went down to 10 men, and the save came from Redmond up against Matic... Whats McT got to do with that?

 

[Skills]

Can he play left back?

 

[sammsky1]

Stagnated.

because he played 8 minutes?

 

[Cassidy]

Well we went down to 10 men, and the save came from Redmond up against Matic... Whats McT got to do with that?

We were under pressure which didnt ease when he came on. We were not more solid in the midfield. Im not blaming him just saying he made zero impact.

He was brought on to sure up the midfield but he didnt

 

[el3mel]

Was no reason for him to come on today. Pointless sub.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

We were under pressure which didnt ease when he came on. We were not more solid in the midfield. Im not blaming him just saying he made zero impact.

He was brought on to sure up the midfield but he didnt

Well they only had those two moments after he came on. You can't reasonably expect any one to come on and stop the other side from shooting at all.

If we finished the game with 11 men we probably would have won.

 

[#07]

Less presence than Casper the friendly ghost.

 

[Cassidy]

Well they only had those two moments after he came on. You can't reasonably expect any one to come on and stop the other side from shooting at all.

If we finished the game with 11 men we probably would have won.

Again I never said shooting. They dominated the midfield simple as

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Again I never said shooting. They dominated the midfield simple as

They dominated midfield for large portions of the game though... Not sure how he alone could change that with 10 minutes to go. Especially with Williams getting injured and down to 10 men for half the time he was on the pitch.

He came on to make us more solid in terms of not giving away chances and we largely did that. We were dropping off and conceding territory to them to defend our lead.

 

[Cassidy]

They dominated midfield for large portions of the game though... Not sure how he alone could change that with 10 minutes to go. Especially with Williams getting injured and down to 10 men for half the time he was on the pitch.

He came on to make us more solid in terms of not giving away chances and we largely did that. We were dropping off and conceding territory to them to defend our lead.

We didnt largely do that is what I am saying

 

[Augustus Gloop]

Why? He offered nothing

Huh? Because Pogba was diabolical and Matić was dead on his feet. Scott should have been on for one of them on 60 minutes, hes not as lackadaisical as either of them and wins most of his duels. Plus he’s a goal threat -why are you even questioning his introduction?