[AneRu]

He has a role to play in the squad but just not as a starter.

 

[Idxomer]

That's definitely his issue which isn't ideal for a central midfielder. He's one who needs to impress next season. Clearly useful when it comes to imposing oneself through sheer physicality and effort on opponents, but for one of the main 4/5 CMs at United let's see if he can display the necessary all round quality especially passing.

It's not only he can't pass, he usually doesn't bother to make himself available for the ball and subsequently doesn't pass much. He averages at least 20 passes less than any of our other midfielders in the PL. When he tries to be on the ball more like yesterday, his limitations are just more obvious.

He's the type of player that needs to be more the 100% focused and with very definite instructions to get something out of him and in top clubs that's only in very specific games when they don't have the upper hand.

 

[Litch]

Close your eyes, see him in a West Ham shirt.....perfect.

 

[Idxomer]

Close your eyes, see him in a West Ham shirt.....perfect.

I tried but then remembered he has a contract that keeps him in the club till he's 30.

 

[#07]

I thought I’d stay out of this thread after tonight‘s game tbh. I’ve already said all I need to say on the matter, I’ve written it a million different ways and now it’s time for whatever will be to be.

My belief has always been that he has been riding on a wave of personal fondness on here. When that wears off, and other talented new kids start emerging behind him that take their emotion, all that will be left is the player. And there’s not much there, in my opinion. In the match day thread I read a lot of people asking what’s gotten into him’ and ‘where’s the old McTominay?’. This is how he’s always played in my eyes. He wasn’t passing the ball well last October either, it’s just that people didn’t care because they were so smitten with their future captain. It was just ‘passing a little sloppy today but what a warrior’. Well he was still a warrior tonight and his passing was still sloppy. It was always just going to stop being okay all of a sudden once certain novelties wore off.

Anyway, this is my own take on things, and I’m not going to try and convince posters their ‘favourite player’ isn’t all that. We’ll just let it run it’s course, and hopefully they turn out right and me wrong.

I think you're being a tad harsh but, in broad strokes, I think you're more right than wrong about McTominay's limitations. I feel similarly about Fred. People talk about the two of them as if they have had wonderful seasons. However, while there have been some games in which they were effective, with the two of them as our starting midfielders we were looking up at Leicester and Sheffield United. That should be enough to put their quality into perspective. It reminds me of when we were all getting giddy about Janzuaj, ignoring the fact that its very different to look the best player in the 7th placed team and the team that finishes where we aspire to be.

McTominay has had better games than last night's that's for sure. I don't think his ceiling is that much higher than what he showed last night though. I hope it is. I would love Scott to grow into the role the coaching staff want for him. Who wouldn't want a homegrown player to come through the ranks and fill a badly needed hole in the team? Its just very hard for me to see 'it' with him. With any luck he'll prove me massively wrong and within months I'll be eating my words.

 

[Canagel]

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Oh God i remember when people on the Caf were talking about Pogba having to earn his place back on the team

 

[Andycoleno9]

We are all happy how we are (kind of) selling deadwood but at the same time we are creating more of them. Long term contracts to him and Williams, buying James, Smalling is back... Neither of them is Man Utd quality. Especially McTominay. Cleverley looks like a baller comparing to McT.

 

[Rozay]

Let’s not do this to Scott. In fairness, I doubt Ole, for one second, saw McTominay as some sort of credible competition for Pogba - only some die-harders on the internet. I don’t think Scott or the club have ever realistically seen him as some sort of Pogba rival, so I think using it to make jokes about him is unfair.

Scott is what he is, and he isn’t what he isn’t, but he’s at least an honest pro, I don’t think reds taking the piss out of his touch, technique etc is good form.

 

[Blood Mage]

He has been dreadful since the lockdown ended albeit with just a couple of appearances. Hopefully it's just fitness issues.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Why is it that when Pogba came on, he started wandering out of position and leaving Pogba to play DM??

If it's Ole's instructions, it's very strange for McTominay to have a more free role than Pogba, and if it's Scott ignoring instructions that's very poor from him. If the club wants to turn him into Matic's replacement (really hope not), he'll have to do better than that.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Let’s not do this to Scott. In fairness, I doubt Ole, for one second, saw McTominay as some sort of credible competition for Pogba - only some die-harders on the internet. I don’t think Scott or the club have ever realistically seen him as some sort of Pogba rival, so I think using it to make jokes about him is unfair.

Scott is what he is, and he isn’t what he isn’t, but he’s at least an honest pro, I don’t think reds taking the piss out of his touch, technique etc is good form.

I admire posters who can criticise a player without having to criticise the person.

 

[romufc]

Scott is what he is, and he isn’t what he isn’t, but he’s at least an honest pro, I don’t think reds taking the piss out of his touch, technique etc is good form.

There is this twitter fan group of Manutd where they have their favourite players and then the rest are all on the chopping block.

Like Scott - He does not have Pogba's technical ability granted, but he has alot of work ethic and he wants to improve.

There is alot of this in twitter where fans minds have been made up. Lindelof cant defend, Shaw cant attack, Martial cant be a striker, McTominay can't pass based on mistakes players make in the game.

How often do we see players do 100% of things right, especially players that have not played regularly, it was a game where we were 5-0 up, instead of encouraging our players, we find anything to put them down.

It is quite sad to see really.

 

[roonster09]

fecking hell, no wonder few posts are like the way they are. Twitter imeme accounts are the source of their football knowledge and analysis.

 

[roonster09]

We are all happy how we are (kind of) selling deadwood but at the same time we are creating more of them. Long term contracts to him and Williams, buying James, Smalling is back... Neither of them is Man Utd quality. Especially McTominay. Cleverley looks like a baller comparing to McT.

Eh? Mctominay had good season, this rewriting his season is so weird. Cleverley is baller compared to McT? McT is among top in completed dribbles for us.

Among CMs only 3 players completed more dribbles per 90 mins than Mctominay.

 

[romufc]

Eh? Mctominay had good season, this rewriting his season is so weird. Cleverley is baller compared to McT? McT is among top in completed dribbles for us.

Looks like some fans want us to have a starting 11 and no subs. Or they want 2 starting 11's with both with the same quality.

 

[roonster09]

Looks like some fans want us to have a starting 11 and no subs. Or they want 2 starting 11's with both with the same quality.

I don't understand how playing poorly now will change how he played before lockdown. All his good performances are forgotten and somehow he is deadwood now.

 

[Still ill]

Oh God i remember when people on the Caf were talking about Pogba having to earn his place back on the team

I know! Imagine a player for United having to actually earn his place!

 

[red woppit]

Just a carcrash of a performance. I can only think that Ole was hoping he would play himself into form, otherwise no idea how he got to stay on the pitch.

New this type of reaction would happen, some people are so quick to criticize any player who doesn't look like a world class player every game. He was quite ordinary first half, as most of the team were, but picked up second half, and was far from a carcrash. The whole team was better second half, but when you've hardly played a competitive game for months, the rustiness is bound to be there, and some players will get back to form quite quickly, others will take several games. This is why we have pre season friendlies. I was disappointed that Ole didn't rotate the team more during those last few matches, especially in midfield, where I don't think a Matic, Pogba, Bruno midfield works at all. We give away too much possession in midfield for me, and against better teams than Southampton, Villa, Palace, West Ham and Leicester, we could we'll give away goals. To me we need one of Fred or McTominay in that midfield position.

 

[Idxomer]

He didn't have a good season.

He hasn't played great since the game against City in the 1st half of the season, exactly 8 months ago.

 

[Still ill]

Frankly, it sickens me the way some of our fanbase pile in to ridicule a guy like Mctominay as soon as our sexy football starts to click. I've no problem with rational punters pointing out their reservations but for a 23 year old at a top club, he's had a lot of spotlight since his breakthrough. He may or may not be good enough in the long run but he was great alongside Fred through the not so sexy part of the season when we needed character and he's one of our own. Debate by all means but spare me the derision.

 

[romufc]

I don't understand how playing poorly now will change how he played before lockdown. All his good performances are forgotten and somehow he is deadwood now.

No clue... It feels some fans on twitter don't actually want us to do well. McTominay and Fred are what they are, they are back ups that in my opinion will improve. Deadwood in my book is someone who has been given opportunity after opportunity and not done well, or someone who is in the squad for no reason, never gets playing time.

Examples include Rojo, Jones, Perreira i would put in there.

Now McTominay and Fred got their opportunities and played well I would say, filling in games when the entire team is changed is not the best way to judge players.

 

[ReallyUSA]

How quickly we all turn. He is in a bad run of form. You would think he is a garbage footballer and beats kids on weekdays. Jesus.

 

[red woppit]

There is this twitter fan group of Manutd where they have their favourite players and then the rest are all on the chopping block.

Like Scott - He does not have Pogba's technical ability granted, but he has alot of work ethic and he wants to improve.

There is alot of this in twitter where fans minds have been made up. Lindelof cant defend, Shaw cant attack, Martial cant be a striker, McTominay can't pass based on mistakes players make in the game.

How often do we see players do 100% of things right, especially players that have not played regularly, it was a game where we were 5-0 up, instead of encouraging our players, we find anything to put them down.

It is quite sad to see really.

Yep, it is sad. All I can put it down to is the fact that McTominay burst onto the scene unexpectedly, no one, that I can remember, tipped him to get a first team game, let alone become a member of the first team squad, so because his rise was not spotted by these 'fans', they have great delight in putting him down when he doesn't perform as well as he should. Comparing him with Pogba is interesting. Technically McTominay is way behind Pogba, but when you need someone in that midfield to close down, tackle, win a defensive header, let the ball smash them in the face rather than give a penalty away, who would you rather have. That's why a Matic Pogba midfield two just doesn't work for me, it requires a Fred or McTominay in there.

 

[romufc]

That's why a Matic Pogba midfield two just doesn't work for me, it requires a Fred or McTominay in there

I agree, we have seen signs of this in games where the midfield looks open. McTominay or Fred will give us the energy to close teams down, too often Matic is way too far from the ball.

I have had a look at the stat comparison between McTominay and Matic, have a look on the link below. The one area which McTominay needs to improve is his passing accuracy. Fred / Matic / McTominay all have similar stats.

McTominay needs to improve his passing and composure and Fred needs to improve his discipline. I think this can be worked on and we will have a better balance, given how slow our defence is.

https://www.beinsports.com/en/premier-league/statistics

 

[E-mal]

What I have to say about Scott is that he isn't a CDM and never will be. If we persist with trying him there, it will end in failure.


His best position is box to box, hardworking destroyer who can contribute to goals. Say a slightly poorer version of what valverde does for Real Madrid. He is the sort of player that can come in for Pogba as long as the CDM and AM playing alongside him have superior technical ability in terms of passing and football intelligence.



In terms of ability I'd say Fred is just slightly better but other factors tilt OT in favour of Scott and personally think we should sell one of them because they are too similar and I'd rather sell Fred and bring a Specialist CDM in the mould of Carrick or Matic.


Scott has had a fairly OK season when we compare him to the standard required as a Man Utd squard player and he will improve. A good season though? I strongly disagree.

A good season is what our front three have had.

 

[#07]

I don't understand how playing poorly now will change how he played before lockdown. All his good performances are forgotten and somehow he is deadwood now.

I don't think this is what most McTominay's critics are saying. Maybe they're not expressing themselves well? However, as I interpret it most people are saying he has no role in the team as its currently configured. I think that's right.

When McTominay was playing very well for United we were playing quite differently: More compact, more role for hustling in midfield, less emphasis on what we do in possession. That set up let McTominay thrive. However, since Bruno has come in and Pogba has come back our tactics are very different. The midfield shape is different to what it was before and the balance of midfield responsibilities has changed too.

Now instead of being compact, the team is spread out and the midfield can't go chasing the ball. If they do they leave gaps for the opposition to play into cos our defensive and midfield lines are not sat on top of each other. Also with this new shape comes more defined roles in midfield. There's a clear #6 who drops back into defence to split our centre backs and allow our shape to become 3-3-1-3 in possession. A clear #8 who has the job of shuttling the ball forward. A clear #10 who has free licence.

McTominay is no longer sharing duties and so, rather than being decent to good at everything, he's being expected to be really good to great at one thing. Also the thing Ole wants him to be really good at, playing in defensive midfield, is not his strength. He doesn't have that instinct for sniffing danger and taking up the right positions on transitions. He's much better when the ball is ahead of him and he can go hunting for it. He might one day learn the position. Michael Carrick is one of his coaches so if anyone can teach him Carrick can. At the moment he's just not up to it though. He was poor in the role against Palace, he was poor against LASK. IMO his best recent performances have come as an #8 where he can push forward more and use his physical presence in an attacking capacity.

 

[Freak]

Some of our fans really are idiots. Get behind our young ones FFS.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I know! Imagine a player for United having to actually earn his place!

You sound like you were one of those people that made such a ridiculous statement

 

[Still ill]

You sound like you were one of those people that made such a ridiculous statement

Irony, buddy.

 

[edcunited1878]

Need to give him a lot of time to really develop but also to give him clear directives and expectations as a squad member. He's deserved his place in the squad, but how he's actually used and what's expected of him shouldn't be too much but it really has to be clear to him and to the team.

I'm all for him continue developing and getting appearances as necessary. Going into the CL and improving the squad and results to reduce the gap between United and the top 2 and to fight for the title next season and the coming seasons, McTominay isn't starting quality. He may develop into that similar to Darren Fletcher, but he has a lot to improve upon, and until then he's a squad player with the occasional league start and for sure domestic cup starter. CL he'll have to be selected with a lot of quality around him or come off the bench for specific uses.

 

[roonster09]

I don't think this is what most McTominay's critics are saying. Maybe they're not expressing themselves well? However, as I interpret it most people are saying he has no role in the team as its currently configured. I think that's right.

When McTominay was playing very well for United we were playing quite differently: More compact, more role for hustling in midfield, less emphasis on what we do in possession. That set up let McTominay thrive. However, since Bruno has come in and Pogba has come back our tactics are very different. The midfield shape is different to what it was before and the balance of midfield responsibilities has changed too.

Now instead of being compact, the team is spread out and the midfield can't go chasing the ball. If they do they leave gaps for the opposition to play into cos our defensive and midfield lines are not sat on top of each other. Also with this new shape comes more defined roles in midfield. There's a clear #6 who drops back into defence to split our centre backs and allow our shape to become 3-3-1-3 in possession. A clear #8 who has the job of shuttling the ball forward. A clear #10 who has free licence.

McTominay is no longer sharing duties and so, rather than being decent to good at everything, he's being expected to be really good to great at one thing. Also the thing Ole wants him to be really good at, playing in defensive midfield, is not his strength. He doesn't have that instinct for sniffing danger and taking up the right positions on transitions. He's much better when the ball is ahead of him and he can go hunting for it. He might one day learn the position. Michael Carrick is one of his coaches so if anyone can teach him Carrick can. At the moment he's just not up to it though. He was poor in the role against Palace, he was poor against LASK. IMO his best recent performances have come as an #8 where he can push forward more and use his physical presence in an attacking capacity.

I remember having same discussion with you last month, don't think we are going to agree anyways.

Edit: btw no, that's not his critics are saying.

 

[#07]

I remember having same discussion with you last month, don't think we are going to agree anyways.

I wasn't trying to argue with you. I was just saying where people like me are coming from.

Not saying that this is your opinion, however it is possible that some people don't hate McTominay they just don't think what he's being asked to do plays to his strengths or helps the team.

 

[roonster09]

I wasn't trying to argue with you. I was just saying where people like me are coming from.

Not saying that this is your opinion, however it is possible that some people don't hate McTominay they just don't think what he's being asked to do plays to his strengths or helps the team.

You might be coming from that point of view but not everyone.