SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Pogue Mahone]

Yes, thanks I guess I was bit too uneducated in this to have understood the message earlier. That's a relief as being with a child still suffering heavily with covid after 8 months (literally has not gone to school!) I'm a sceptic for myself and my other kids until there's full proof.

If I remember correctly she never had any fever, cough or loss of smell and never tested positive for covid.

I urged you at the time to get her investigated for an alternative cause for her symptoms. If she’s still not well, 8 months later, you really need to get her properly checked out. Covid is obviously a big worry for all of us but we have to remember that there are plenty of other illnesses out there.

 

[Badunk]

Yeah I read that the Pfizer CEO sold a whole load of stock off after the announcement. Its not a good look and morally wrong in my opinion, erodes trust in the companies. I don’t think it’s entirely motivated by that, there were always points in the trials where they could read the data early. Allows them to apply for early use authorisations and get the vaccines out quicker.

May as well sell your shares when the price is higher.

 

[Tony Babangida]

May as well sell your shares when the price is higher.

But maybe not if trust in your company is important for vaccine uptake and “saving the world”. He’s rich enough, could have waited a bit longer.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

May as well sell your shares when the price is higher.

Apparently these were automatic sales triggered by the price rising above a threshold which was set ages ago. Still, though, not a good look.

Scientific updates via press releases are not ideal but has been standard practice for decades. The companies are obliged to notify the markets of information which might be relevant to their share price, as soon as it becomes available (which is intended, ironically, to prevent the insider trading that @UnrelatedPsuedo is accusing them of) These releases are typically circulated long before the data has been analysed and interpreted to a point that is fit for a formal peer review.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Apparently these were automatic sales triggered by the price rising above a threshold which was set ages ago. Still, though, not a good look.

Scientific updates via press releases are not ideal but has been standard practice for decades. The companies are obliged to notify the markets of information which might be relevant to their share price, as soon as it becomes available (which is intended, ironically, to prevent the insider trading that @UnrelatedPsuedo is accusing them of) These releases are typically circulated long before the data has been analysed and interpreted to a point that is fit for a formal peer review.

Pogue, this shit is rampant right now. It’s not accusation it’s fact. I suck the corporate teat. I was given ‘advice’ before the Pfizer announcement, albeit second hand.

I kind of know how it should work. It’s not working like that right now. People are making money hand over fist. It’s disgusting.

 

[RK]

Is it worth bearing in mind that the Moderna trial protocol only tests for obviously symptomatic COVID-19? To be considered a positive case, the participants must test positive AND have at least two symptoms, at least one of which being a specific type.

Still promising news but seems like this could skew the numbers a bit by veiling potential asymptomatic cases/transmission. Would expect the true effectiveness (disease prevention) to be lower than 94.5%, but I say that based on statistical effects rather than any medical knowledge.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Pogue, this shit is rampant right now. It’s not accusation it’s fact. I suck the corporate teat. I was given ‘advice’ before the Pfizer announcement, albeit second hand.

I kind of know how it should work. It’s not working like that right now. People are making money hand over fist. It’s disgusting.

I’m not denying the existence of insider training. Just pointing out that these press releases are intended to prevent/minimise it. You were giving the impression that they’re specifically released to help insider trading, when the opposite is actually the case.

 

[Dumbstar]

Jesus, I remember seeing you post at the beginning of all this you were worried your little one might have it, that's awful to hear. What long covid symptoms are they suffering with? I'm in a similar boat where my breathing is still fecked and it's been about 7/8 months for me too, got better over the past 2 months or so to where it comes and goes now and I'm just used to the usual feeling so it's a bit more noticeable when I do have bad days with it but still a far cry from before, gone from being a fit and healthy 24 year old playing football a few times a week to getting out of breath if I walk at a slightly faster pace ffs.

Feel free to PM me, but I'll reply here for others if they are interested. My daughter was 17 when she caught it, started with a serious chest pain, uncomfortable pins and needles that stop you sleeping at night, headaches, brain fog and fatigue. No breathing issues though. Symptoms would often cycle and you wouldn't get all of them at once. In the summer there were green shots of recovery but it was short lived and all the symptoms are back just as bad except for the chest pain which though still bad is not as excruciating as before.

She had picked up other symptoms too, like loss of smell and taste, etc. Again the symptoms cycle. Went to the hospital in September (cases were very low then so a good time), blood tests, x-ray, etc, done but as expected found nothing. I have spent most of my time on a Long Covid Slack group which I would advise for you to join.

Sorry to hear about your symptoms. It's bad enough to get it in middle age but to affect you in the prime of your life is depressing. Main thing is to reach out to others in your boat, we need to get through this mentally rather than physically, and medical professionals are not currently equipped for that. I've had a few shouting matches with three of my GP footy mates who are still in symptoms denial stages.

 

[sammsky1]

Moderna is a massive game changer as it sounds like it can even work for villages in hot climate countries, so will help places like Mexico, India or Africa.
If their results are robust, it’s perhaps more useful than the Pzier one.

Anyone know what the Zeneca/Oxford storage specs are?

Seems as though better portability comes at a cost ....

But a critical question that is going to become ever more important is raised by the Moderna vaccine. It is very expensive.
In the summer, Moderna was pitching for $37 (£28) a dose, which is way above others such as Johnson & Johnson, at $10, and Pfizer, at $20.
This was in smaller quantities, and obviously deals will be done to cut the price for bulk purchases, but Moderna is a commercial company, which has clearly stated its interest in making profits.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-good-news-but-high-price-may-restrict-access

 

[Jippy]

COVID symptom - I’ve lost my body odour. I thought it was because my scent of smell was gone but it’s back now. I’ve not worn deodorant since getting COVID.

Has anyone heard of this symptom? Pretty cool symptom to have. Hoping this one sticks!

Sounds like the Prince Andrew effect.

 

[BootsyCollins]

With the exeption at restaurants, and still not a word about face masks.
actually, when the prime minister got a question about wearing face masks at public transports, his respons was ”its not illegal to wear a mask”

Ive so far been very pro to how we have handled the pandemic so far, but i feel now they just refuse to change some things out of pride, and it bugs me.

 

[Brwned]

Will the trial have been long enough to guarantee that? They seem to have rushed it through.

Long covid appeared within a couple of months of covid so they've certainly had long enough to see whether that would appear after the vaccine, especially given the rigorous follow up protocols.

 

[zing]

Still disappointed that press releases for these mRNA vaccines haven't been supplemented with scientific publications that we can go over.
Literally we are trying to procure these vaccines and plan/reorganise healthcare infrastructure without peer-reviewed publication review. Not good science.

Wonder if the delay in Oxford''s publication is down to them wanting to do things more properly. Here's Richard Horton of the Lancet and what he said earlier about Pfizer (note the Lancet published phase I and II RCT results of the Oxford vaccine back in july)

Isn't this better? If you submit it for peer-review, there'll be 200 odd people who have access to the peer review who can do insider trading.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I’m not denying the existence of insider training. Just pointing out that these press releases are intended to prevent/minimise it. You were giving the impression that they’re specifically released to help insider trading, when the opposite is actually the case.

Half true in terms of what I’m saying.

My point is that more people now know about these kinds of releases. The ‘Additional’ folks are profiting. It was always the case, but In a pre-Covid world it was Chinese whispers. It’s far more open now. The Trial results through to full reporting period used to be sensibly long.

With the Pfizer vaccine the stock price started running before the temperature parameters for storage were announced. The lag between a story of success and ‘qualified success’ saw funds make millions.

The whole thing is corrupt. I’m pointing fingers at Executive Boards, not Scientists.

 

[Eboue]

Just tested positive.

 

[jojojo]

When are those results for the novavax due to be published?

thanks for your participation to help us all!

They need a minimum number of cases - I believe they've set it to 152 - with the first interim reviews after 66 cases. They think they'll have "some" data in Q1/21.

If I do the usual back of an envelope calculation based on Manchester's current covid rate of around 400/100k/week - then just the initial UK trial group of 10k people (5k placebo, 5k vaccine) could give them that interim review quantity every month. The UK trial is being expanded to 15k and US trials are starting this month . However, the chances are that trial volunteers aren't quite that representative of the general population, plus that Manchester number is falling again. Still some results during Q1 sounds reasonable.

 

[Pexbo]

Just tested positive.

Best of luck mate, any symptoms? Regretting going to that Trump rally now?

 

[Bratt]

Just tested positive.

You’ll beat this mate, good luck.

if i was infected by this virus i would simply fight it off using my immune system

 

[Eboue]

Best of luck mate, any symptoms? Regretting going to that Trump rally now?

Starting last Tuesday ive had a headache, cough, fever, and vomiting but not all at the same time. No headache since Thursday, cough only got bad over the weekend, fever on and off etc.

I'm hoping that since I've apparently had this for a week already its not going to get much worse but I don't really know what to expect.

 

[Kasper]

Starting last Tuesday ive had a headache, cough, fever, and vomiting but not all at the same time. No headache since Thursday, cough only got bad over the weekend, fever on and off etc.

I'm hoping that since I've apparently had this for a week already its not going to get much worse but I don't really know what to expect.

How`s your breathing? From my understanding that`s the main thing that gets worse after a week of symptoms, apart from that it could be a good sign that it hasn`t gotten worse.

All the best!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They need a minimum number of cases - I believe they've set it to 152 - with the first interim reviews after 66 cases. They think they'll have "some" data in Q1/21.

If I do the usual back of an envelope calculation based on Manchester's current covid rate of around 400/100k/week - then just the initial UK trial group of 10k people (5k placebo, 5k vaccine) could give them that interim review quantity every month. The UK trial is being expanded to 15k and US trials are starting this month . However, the chances are that trial volunteers aren't quite that representative of the general population, plus that Manchester number is falling again. Still some results during Q1 sounds reasonable.

This autumnal surge has been a nightmare for everyone but it’s definitely accelerating these phase 3 trials. If we’d kept cases at their summer levels we could have been waiting for preliminary results until the beginning of next year, or longer.

 

[11101]

Feel free to PM me, but I'll reply here for others if they are interested. My daughter was 17 when she caught it, started with a serious chest pain, uncomfortable pins and needles that stop you sleeping at night, headaches, brain fog and fatigue. No breathing issues though. Symptoms would often cycle and you wouldn't get all of them at once. In the summer there were green shots of recovery but it was short lived and all the symptoms are back just as bad except for the chest pain which though still bad is not as excruciating as before.

She had picked up other symptoms too, like loss of smell and taste, etc. Again the symptoms cycle. Went to the hospital in September (cases were very low then so a good time), blood tests, x-ray, etc, done but as expected found nothing. I have spent most of my time on a Long Covid Slack group which I would advise for you to join.

Sorry to hear about your symptoms. It's bad enough to get it in middle age but to affect you in the prime of your life is depressing. Main thing is to reach out to others in your boat, we need to get through this mentally rather than physically, and medical professionals are not currently equipped for that. I've had a few shouting matches with three of my GP footy mates who are still in symptoms denial stages.

Have you got a positive test for her yet? I remember you talking about this months ago but she did not get tested. After 8 months i would hope you have had everything else ruled out by now and Covid actually confirmed.

 

[Eboue]

How`s your breathing? From my understanding that`s the main thing that gets worse after a week of symptoms, apart from that it could be a good sign that it hasn`t gotten worse.

All the best!

Breathing is normal. Are you saying that still gets worse after a week or if it hasn't gotten worse thats a good sign?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Just tested positive.

RIP I'll always remember that time you did the thing.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Breathing is normal. Are you saying that still gets worse after a week or if it hasn't gotten worse thats a good sign?

About a week in is when most people recover or else go badly south. If you haven’t been particularly sick up until now then there’s a good chance you’re in the former category.

 

[Smores]

Feel free to PM me, but I'll reply here for others if they are interested. My daughter was 17 when she caught it, started with a serious chest pain, uncomfortable pins and needles that stop you sleeping at night, headaches, brain fog and fatigue. No breathing issues though. Symptoms would often cycle and you wouldn't get all of them at once. In the summer there were green shots of recovery but it was short lived and all the symptoms are back just as bad except for the chest pain which though still bad is not as excruciating as before.

She had picked up other symptoms too, like loss of smell and taste, etc. Again the symptoms cycle. Went to the hospital in September (cases were very low then so a good time), blood tests, x-ray, etc, done but as expected found nothing. I have spent most of my time on a Long Covid Slack group which I would advise for you to join.

Sorry to hear about your symptoms. It's bad enough to get it in middle age but to affect you in the prime of your life is depressing. Main thing is to reach out to others in your boat, we need to get through this mentally rather than physically, and medical professionals are not currently equipped for that. I've had a few shouting matches with three of my GP footy mates who are still in symptoms denial stages.

Sorry to hear about your daughter, It doesn't sound far off my own 'CFS/Fibromyalgia' to be honest as i tick all those boxes. I think long covid falls into the same pot of generic labels i.e. feck knows your body is bolloxed here's some drugs.

They probably won't ever know what factors cause long covid so the best thing is to test for curable alternatives first and then work towards treatments. I've known others obsessed with a label but it never satisfies when it arrives.

Hopefully the vaccine stops many many people suffering from these life changing impacts. It's reason enough alone to get the vaccine in my book. For one thing i got mine from a bad flu the one year i didn't get a flu jab.

 

[Kasper]

Breathing is normal. Are you saying that still gets worse after a week or if it hasn't gotten worse thats a good sign?

I`m not an expert and neither a doctor. From what I gathered from a friend of mine who worked with plenty of Covid cases and from what I read is that difficulty to breath is the key difference. After 7-10 days it mostly gets worse for people who get hospitalized (as in, they get hospitalized after 7-10 days of symptoms). If you "only" had flue like symptoms for a week and your breathing is fine I`d be slightly optimistic. Don`t expect a rapid positive change, it takes longer than your normal illness to get back to strength.

 

[Andy_Cole]

So my isolation has ended, tested negative again (test was last Thursday).
Today was probably my worst day since last Tuesday. So I’m still feeling the affects. It’s the same symptoms of fatigue and headaches. I wonder how much this is mental but I can’t be sure.

 

[Maluco]

Ah ok. The general principle is that it can take up to 14 days to develop symptoms after infection - more typical is 3-7 days.

The general 14 days advice covers the odd case where it does take that long to get symptoms. But it also helps in the (thought to be more common) situation where you do get it at 4/7 days but are asymptomatic, or have minimal symptoms, but are infective. Some people (mostly travel companies!) suggest that a test at 7 days would be just as safe.

So, I can't give you advice other than try and stick to your local rules, but that's the background reasoning.

I appreciate the reply mate! Thanks!

 

[Maluco]

So my isolation has ended, tested negative again (test was last Thursday).
Today was probably my worst day since last Tuesday. So I’m still feeling the affects. It’s the same symptoms of fatigue and headaches. I wonder how much this is mental but I can’t be sure.

Sorry to hear you are still getting symptoms! What were you told about being able to mix with your family again?

 

[golden_blunder]

Can someone tell me; do the new vaccines stop you getting it or do they work on reducing the effects if you catch it?

 

[Dumbstar]

Have you got a positive test for her yet? I remember you talking about this months ago but she did not get tested. After 8 months i would hope you have had everything else ruled out by now and Covid actually confirmed.

Testing wasn't really happening back in March unless you had certain symptoms which she didn't (cough, temperature, breathing). She got tested in September in hospital but obviously it was never going to come back positive then. I know for certain it's Covid thanks to the Slack group I mentioned - a Godsend. At some point medical people will catch up with this and then finally take over. Hopefully.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Can someone tell me; do the new vaccines stop you getting it or do they work on reducing the effects if you catch it?

They should build immunity to the point your immune system knows how to fight it should it see the same thing again.

 

[11101]

Testing wasn't really happening back in March unless you had certain symptoms which she didn't (cough, temperature, breathing). She got tested in September in hospital but obviously it was never going to come back positive then. I know for certain it's Covid thanks to the Slack group I mentioned - a Godsend. At some point medical people will catch up with this and then finally take over. Hopefully.

You can get an antibody test to see if she has had it in the past. You can't be sure without that, and certainly not based on a diagnosis from an internet chatroom. That's crazy

 

[Smores]

Poor lass on the UK government briefing had a mare explaining those tests. My missus did one of these a couple of week ago as part of an Oxford study, its much simpler than they explained.

 

[Dumbstar]

You can get an antibody test to see if she has had it in the past. You can't be sure without that, and certainly not based on a diagnosis from an internet chatroom. That's crazy

Absolutely, I asked but obviously ain't getting that test for free. I should have added, before we were able to isolate my daughter properly my wife caught it off her for a few months. However, she has since thankfully recovered. Still gets an occasional stirring in her chest but very, very mild now. My wife can confirm most of the symptoms my daughter is feeling as she had less extreme versions of all of them. Luckily, myself, my other kids and more importantly my elderly mum managed to avoid getting it from them. Quarantining worked.

The slack group is vast and lots of shared experiences help build a universal picture. Would strongly urge everyone to get on it if they need lots of info/details. More than they'll get on chat sites or from most medical staff who are understandably heavily focused on hospitalised patients only.

Edit: sorry should have added, I'm not interested in getting one of the five anti body tests for a not insignificant amount of money to find out I should probably do one or all of the other for to avoid false positives/negatives. The anti body test is not a be all or end all here.

 

[ThierryHenry]

Starting last Tuesday ive had a headache, cough, fever, and vomiting but not all at the same time. No headache since Thursday, cough only got bad over the weekend, fever on and off etc.

I'm hoping that since I've apparently had this for a week already its not going to get much worse but I don't really know what to expect.

Shit, good luck mate.

 

[11101]

Absolutely, I asked but obviously ain't getting that test for free. I should have added, before we were able to isolate my daughter properly my wife caught it off her for a few months. However, she has since thankfully recovered. Still gets an occasional stirring in her chest but very, very mild now. My wife can confirm most of the symptoms my daughter is feeling as she had less extreme versions of all of them. Luckily, myself, my other kids and more importantly my elderly mum managed to avoid getting it from them. Quarantining worked.

The slack group is vast and lots of shared experiences help build a universal picture. Would strongly urge everyone to get on it if they need lots of info/details. More than they'll get on chat sites or from most medical staff who are understandably heavily focused on hospitalised patients only.

Edit: sorry should have added, I'm not interested in getting one of the five anti body tests for a not insignificant amount of money to find out I should probably do one or all of the other for to avoid false positives/negatives. The anti body test is not a be all or end all here.

All I'm saying is that you can't be certain it is Covid without having a positive test of some sort, and if it is not Covid you should find out what it really is. Or at least rule out anything more serious. 8 months is a long time to work off assumptions.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Absolutely, I asked but obviously ain't getting that test for free. I should have added, before we were able to isolate my daughter properly my wife caught it off her for a few months. However, she has since thankfully recovered. Still gets an occasional stirring in her chest but very, very mild now. My wife can confirm most of the symptoms my daughter is feeling as she had less extreme versions of all of them. Luckily, myself, my other kids and more importantly my elderly mum managed to avoid getting it from them. Quarantining worked.

The slack group is vast and lots of shared experiences help build a universal picture. Would strongly urge everyone to get on it if they need lots of info/details. More than they'll get on chat sites or from most medical staff who are understandably heavily focused on hospitalised patients only.

Edit: sorry should have added, I'm not interested in getting one of the five anti body tests for a not insignificant amount of money to find out I should probably do one or all of the other for to avoid false positives/negatives. The anti body test is not a be all or end all here.

I’m repeating myself here and I don’t want to force unwanted medical advice down anyone’s throat so I’m kind of reluctant to say this but here goes anyway...

To be absolutely clear. YOUR DAUGHTER DOES NOT HAVE A DIAGNOSIS. The reason this matters is because there are other, far more sinister illnesses than covid, which can cause 8 months ill health. And the illnesses you need to rule out can be terminal (unlike long covid) It’s just not good enough to decide this is all down to covid in the absence of any test results to support that diagnosis. No matter how convinced you are by internet chat-rooms.

If you can’t afford the relevant blood tests your GP can order them, paid for by the NHS. You owe it to your daughter to get the bottom of what is making her unwell and you need to engage properly with the healthcare services to get a diagnosis.

I hope she feels better soon. Wishing her all the best. I won’t post about this again.

 

[Dumbstar]

All I'm saying is that you can't be certain it is Covid without having a positive test of some sort, and if it is not Covid you should find out what it really is. Or at least rule out anything more serious. 8 months is a long time to work off assumptions.

Agreed, will get a full blood test done via the GP including anti body testing in the next few days/weeks.